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The official death of the CW?
spiritualxbl
Member Posts: 66 Arc User
Looking at some of the comparison charts, it looks like CWs just took the single biggest DPS blow with the nerfing of the Lostmauth set. You nerfed Storm Spell, most of us quit, the rest of us adapted.
In the early mods, you took our "control" from being amazing, to barely being better than anyone elses. Then you nerfed Shard of the Endless Avalanche, Arcane Singularity and Entangling Force to being unusable. Then you nerfed Assailant and gave us the not even close to being as powerful, Assailing Force. Then you gave us a big upgrade to Chaos Magic and we had 2 mods where we were actually competitive. Then you nerfed Storm Spell by not letting it crit and giving it an ICD. We adapted and found the only way to be competitive was to pump way more funds into our characters than other classes and run the Lostmauth set. Today you tell us the Lostmauth set is getting nerfed and don't have any plans in place to compensate CWs with any class changes.
I knew the nerf was inevitable, but I figured it would coincide with a big class balancing patch.
If I'm reading these %'s right, this patch will put CWs clearly at the bottom of DPS charts with no real chance of competing. This last 2x AD event showed me the state of the game. Seeing messages like "Bubble/Haste LF SW and GWF DPS", "GF looking for Haste+SW" and seeing messages like "TRs and CWs need to stay out of Epic Demogorgon, it screws the other players!".
The Bubble/Haste changes are welcome, but you must see what you're doing to CWs and TRs by nerfing the Lostmauth set and not dealing with compensatory class balancing changes to them, right?
It's been almost a year and you still haven't addressed the broken Puppet SW builds. And with this patch, you've made them the undisputed DPS kings. And you're thinking about buffing them up, according to your State of the Game propaganda article a couple weeks ago.
Then again, I can't really think of any ways you could give CWs any chance of having a fair chance of being competitive. What incentive do I have to spend any money building my CW up anymore? I have none. As it is, most of us are overspending just to get within a 10-20% range of a Puppet SW or GWF. With this patch, it looks like a 2.5k Puppet SW will out-DPS a 4.2k CW. Do you not see the problem with that?
We don't want to be support/buffers. The class wasn't designed that way and you shouldn't force us to go buff Renegade just to get a group.
The only way to compensate for this is by boosting the base damage of all of our skills (by a lot) and either un-nerfing Spell Storm and boosting Smolder/Rimfire or at least increasing their damage by 100%. And even then, it would be hard to compete with a SW or GWF.
The CW is the most broken class in the game right now and your focus should be on them. I understand the other classes need a balance in some ways, but this patch has put CWs so far behind the pack that you literally have to unscrew us BEFORE you can really focus on all class balancing.
This is either the death of CWs for good or you better seriously reconsider putting the eLoL nerf out until you've figured out a solution.
I know I may get some heat for this, but unless you've played a CW from day one and experienced the plethora of nerfs that we have, you honestly have no idea what you're talking about.
I highly advise you devs to weigh the consequences of your actions. With this patch, you'd essentially be nerfing 2 classes into extinction.
In the early mods, you took our "control" from being amazing, to barely being better than anyone elses. Then you nerfed Shard of the Endless Avalanche, Arcane Singularity and Entangling Force to being unusable. Then you nerfed Assailant and gave us the not even close to being as powerful, Assailing Force. Then you gave us a big upgrade to Chaos Magic and we had 2 mods where we were actually competitive. Then you nerfed Storm Spell by not letting it crit and giving it an ICD. We adapted and found the only way to be competitive was to pump way more funds into our characters than other classes and run the Lostmauth set. Today you tell us the Lostmauth set is getting nerfed and don't have any plans in place to compensate CWs with any class changes.
I knew the nerf was inevitable, but I figured it would coincide with a big class balancing patch.
If I'm reading these %'s right, this patch will put CWs clearly at the bottom of DPS charts with no real chance of competing. This last 2x AD event showed me the state of the game. Seeing messages like "Bubble/Haste LF SW and GWF DPS", "GF looking for Haste+SW" and seeing messages like "TRs and CWs need to stay out of Epic Demogorgon, it screws the other players!".
The Bubble/Haste changes are welcome, but you must see what you're doing to CWs and TRs by nerfing the Lostmauth set and not dealing with compensatory class balancing changes to them, right?
It's been almost a year and you still haven't addressed the broken Puppet SW builds. And with this patch, you've made them the undisputed DPS kings. And you're thinking about buffing them up, according to your State of the Game propaganda article a couple weeks ago.
Then again, I can't really think of any ways you could give CWs any chance of having a fair chance of being competitive. What incentive do I have to spend any money building my CW up anymore? I have none. As it is, most of us are overspending just to get within a 10-20% range of a Puppet SW or GWF. With this patch, it looks like a 2.5k Puppet SW will out-DPS a 4.2k CW. Do you not see the problem with that?
We don't want to be support/buffers. The class wasn't designed that way and you shouldn't force us to go buff Renegade just to get a group.
The only way to compensate for this is by boosting the base damage of all of our skills (by a lot) and either un-nerfing Spell Storm and boosting Smolder/Rimfire or at least increasing their damage by 100%. And even then, it would be hard to compete with a SW or GWF.
The CW is the most broken class in the game right now and your focus should be on them. I understand the other classes need a balance in some ways, but this patch has put CWs so far behind the pack that you literally have to unscrew us BEFORE you can really focus on all class balancing.
This is either the death of CWs for good or you better seriously reconsider putting the eLoL nerf out until you've figured out a solution.
I know I may get some heat for this, but unless you've played a CW from day one and experienced the plethora of nerfs that we have, you honestly have no idea what you're talking about.
I highly advise you devs to weigh the consequences of your actions. With this patch, you'd essentially be nerfing 2 classes into extinction.
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Comments
So please stop freaking out over nothing.
Fab, last I heard you weren't even trying to be the DPS king, why does this bother you so much? CW still has buffs out the yingyang especially with your BS HV set your still holding on to. Of all the CWs in the game the ones who are as good as you will make an excellent addition to any team, yet you talk as though they might as well have taken them out of the game entirely. I just don't get it.
I guess that validates some of the frustration, although I'm hardly convinced SS is useless now.
More challenge, more competition with no-crit builds, more deaths, more blood. What else ?
Stop complain and go test, with a team, on a group content : elol nerf will not be your main problem.
Last time they instituted nerfs of this magnitude that kicked classes to the curb and invalidated lots of gear, they jettisoned half their playerbase. Forget about the nerfs themselves for a second, if you think that is healthy for a game that is already in a strong decline then good luck finding even 10 people to do eDemo. But hey, don't freak out.
How can anyone justify the existence of a set bonus that increases damage by over 50%?
I'm grateful CWs are punished for once!
That being said I as a former DC player see nothing but nerfs on DCs side since ever! Astral shield? nerfed into oblivion. Linked spirit? They weren't able to fix it so they removed it....
DC feats? Worst of the game and still nerfed, because "they interacted with OP abilities"...
Geas? People don't even skill it anymore.
You CWs have no reason to cry and any nerfs towards you are justified. The one thing I could agree with, is making MoF more valuable.
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I haven't run numbers yet on preview. I'm patching it while I type this. I will definetely be posting what I find my reduction in damage to be.
Is it the death of CW? No. Nothing is the "death" of CW. I've been playing my CW since module 2. I love it. I've tried other classes, and none have captured me like CW has. I'm a CW, it's the simple, it's just what I say.
Now, don't kill me for saying this, because it comes in two parts: I think the lostmauth set did indeed need a nerf. It was overpowered. HOWEVER, we needed a buff to compensate, not a nerf to broaden the gap between CW and other classes. I know for a fact without testing that this is at the bare minimum a 20% nerf to my damage, as the lol procs contribute on average 19%-22% of my damage on its own. I have yet to test how it will effect secondary proc rates, and am going to be doing that now.
I do agree that CW has been relentlessly nerfed, and the original few nerfs were needed, but they were poorly implemented. I remember when CW required SKILL, we had to aim our attacks, time our rotations and dodges. It was not the button mashing, keyboard mashing class that it is today. It was elegant, and required chaining, and other unique things.
We've suffered a lot of nerfs, we're all forced to use storm spell and CP to deal any damage. What I'd like to see is a large buff to encounter damage, at-will damage, and the feats in the thaumaturge tree. If they were all buffed by 2x, maybe, just maybe, I'd argue that the nerf was justified. Our damage would still be somewhat reduced, not the same as it was for sure, but we'd still be able to competitively deal damage. Now, I fear the only way we will deal lots of damage is if we stack movement speed and run ahead of our groups.
Remember, this is all speculation, I'm heading over to preview now to do some actual number crunching.
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I mean how many times do we have to go through this? They make a change, most people don't like it, some leave the game, the rest of us adapt. It happened too many times to even begin to count. Hell, even I wasn't sure if I could continue to play the game when mod 6 was released but I stuck it out and Im still here.
Just adapt, the ebb and flow of the game changes so often its not even worth worrying over anymore.
So... It is true is what you are saying? Yes it is going to be a huge hit, but everyone is being hit to some extent. Let's at least wait to see how the changes pan out before calling the end of the world ya?
"I take it you haven't played the game for very long?"
You can check people's account page to see how long they've been playing. For example, I can tell I've been playing about a year and a half longer than you.
"Last time they instituted nerfs of this magnitude that kicked classes to the curb and invalidated lots of gear, they jettisoned half their playerbase. Forget about the nerfs themselves for a second, if you think that is healthy for a game that is already in a strong decline then good luck finding even 10 people to do eDemo. But hey, don't freak out"
They've been nerfing classes and kicking them to the curb since beta. The people who left over that were cry babies who couldn't adjust.
I will be moving most of my enchants to another class and playing it.. I have no desire to be pegged into basically the mof rene line and be a utility feature most of the time.
I do wish they would remove the buffing line from the CWs at all.. it should be controller striker.. in which case.. you should give up control.. for more striking and vice versa.. as it stands now.. its a buffing/debuffer/ controller.
Its more a leader then it is anything else.
What the heck is that?
im sorry but most of us playing the CW class wish for it to go back to controller striker and allow us the choice between control and striking mechanics.
I already have a debuffer/buffer leader.. its the DC class.
how or why we came to the point of making the CW class into a leadership class is beyond me, but its clearly not most of us in the class want from it.
Like I said in the poll, I wasnt against the nerf.. i was against it if you CANt figure out the CW class AT the same time.. dont wait please for 4 months down the road.
I was referring to the thaum feats, I worded it poorly, thaum feats could be a fair bit stronger, i.e. instead of 5% dmg per feat, make it 10%
|| Axios Guild Leader || Neverwinter Trade Forum Moderator || Infernal Paragons ||
Check out my foundry, titled "Akro's Gone Wacko", featuring our ex-CM Akromatik!: NW-DL8J7BY5T
Erza Moonstalker | Lara Moonstalker | Julie Marvell | Erza Moonhunter | Annie Hellangel | Jenn Moonstalker
Thaumaturge's Time To Shine: A Complete Guide
Are you ok with a BiS GWF doing 30% less DPS than a SW 1k+ IL lower than him? Because that's the reality you're going to face. At that same token, CWs will be doing ~30% less damage than a GWF/TR. How do you justify any of that?
And to the guy that said CWs needed nerfs, go fund yourself. You have no idea what we've endured. We're had more class changing nerfs than anyone. They took our control, our target limits and our DPS twice. The ONLY buff CWs have gotten were to the (still broken) Chaos Magic last year.
And to what @thefabricant was saying, we've been reduced to being buff HAMSTER. A MoF Renegade offers weaker buffs than GF and DC and won't even do half the DPS of any other classes.
Just by you making that comment means you know nothing about CWs. We already have to work extra hard just to be compeitive WITH the eLoL set, and now even the best CW would struggle to out-DPS the worst DPS classes in some cases. I prematurely switched to my arcane build now that the nerf's going life, and I can honestly say that I have to work more than twice as hard just to be competitive with a TR/GWF who still get max result for little effort.
And if you have any doubts that this almost destroys the SS Paragon, just ask @ironzerg79. I'm curious as to what he has to say about the matter.
You guys are too much sometimes, I swear!