The Unstoppable? power

bladedge12

I am going to start by saying this is not a rage it is something I found that needs to be talked about.

That being said here is something I am noticing in this game. The great weapon fighter has a power they can use called unstoppable. For people that do not know that power when used makes the GWF not only break out of control effects but become and I will quote the power "become immune to control effects." Now I will pass off the odd down side of your attacks are weaker but the fact the skill is called "unstoppable" and you "become immune to control effects." then why is it that first off you can die while it is going on? Sure if it was a super long time that we get it then that would be broken but it is not that long at all. It is about what 5-10 seconds and it takes a while to charge and unlike the trickster rogue,guardian fighter, ect. ours only fills in battle and drains after and the fact is in less we are "standing" we can not use it. So if we are getting juggled or knocked down we can not use it and just die any way if we do. So unkill able would not be broken. And if we really are "immune to control effects." then why can some enemies knock us around or in the case of that demogrogon fight "mind break" us and/or keep us from using any powers, items, ect despite the fact we are in the unstoppable power that has us "immune to control effects." we are still being effected by control effects. And in pvp it is worse. The TR class has a passive power that makes skills icnor control resists and even states "even if they are immune" Letting them stun lock us and kill us despite us supposed to be unstoppable. Why are we "immune in less something happens that would stop that because something looked at you funny." Unstoppable means "can not be stopped." And immune means "is not effected by." So why can we be killed with it working and why can others both player and nonplayer use a control effect on us and it work. They can also stop us from using it if they hit us with the right attack right before we use it and in some cases not only stop us but drain our bar as if we used it but we did not get the effect of using it. A power that really does not give us a lot at all as it stands. "You can attack faster" For less damage. "You get temp health." Some times. "you are harder to kill." In less a TR or anything else with a massive armor pen hits us killing us in all most one hit. "It has a long time for it to run out." Not really. "It fills up fast." If you are all ready about dead. So I ask this for any dev and others feel free to say what you like in this post. And I will ask this because I have seen this before in other places. Devs don't give us an "it is being worked on." or "it is fair how it is." then lock the post. I hope that any dev will see this talk with me about it and not lock the post after. If I see it answered fairly and with a good reason after we talk I will lock it if need be.

armadeonx

Lol it had to happen - a GWF claiming they need a buff...

*edit: the TR's killing you in pvp are doing it to all classes because they have a Daily power called Shocking Execution that completely ignores your defences (including tenacity).

I've recently added a GWF to my list of characters and whilst he's only at 2k, his damage and survivability is equal to most other classes at 2.5k+ and Unstoppable is a big part of that.

I would ask if you made up your own build or used one of the established ones - and what your specs are?

bladedge12

armadeonx said:

Lol it had to happen - a GWF claiming they need a buff...

I am not saying we need a buff. In fact I think we are a pretty strong class and the real class that needs a buff is the HR and I do not really use that class. I just want to find out the logic of this.

armadeonx

Ouch - HR really doesn't need a buff either. If they are built well they are absolute killers in both pvp and pve. Their ability to trap and microstun enemies is really effective. If you've just started one you'll notice they are very squishy and draw a lot of aggro - however if the enemy can't move then they can't hit you. I saw a friend of mine take a new HR all the way from squishy noob to death machine over a period of about 3 months. He had to respec twice and put a lot of work in but now he's really happy with the character.

bladedge12

armadeonx said:

Ouch - HR really doesn't need a buff either. If they are built well they are absolute killers in both pvp and pve. Their ability to trap and microstun enemies is really effective. If you've just started one you'll notice they are very squishy and draw a lot of aggro - however if the enemy can't move then they can't hit you. I saw a friend of mine take a new HR all the way from squishy noob to death machine over a period of about 3 months. He had to respec twice and put a lot of work in but now he's really happy with the character.

Yes they can be super powered but only if you have gear that is above what you are trying to get. I can not get mine strong enough to get the fire bow/axes relic and my one has a full set of zen underdark gear and all the enchants at rank 8. I can even get the crappy gold ones because the well kills her just by looking at her funny.

armadeonx

lol I know what you mean about being geared. It's a catch 22. I would ask if you're in a guild with good boons? They really help a huge amount.

I haven't researched HR armor as I don't have one but have you compared stats across all the different armor sets? You can do that in the 'collections' option in the menu. You need your resistance ignored at 60%, crit chance above 50% and power above 16k. For HR I'd personally suggest negation and vorpal and stack lifesteal to 4k+ and look at your companions.

If you get the full Archon set (at purple) and run with a mercenary companion (who will take some of the aggro) you will notice a nice increase in damage and survivability.

Also, have you taken the 4th boons in Dread Ring and Sharandar that heal you? They really help - that's the Elven Tranquillity and Enraged Growth ones.

bladedge12

armadeonx said:

lol I know what you mean about being geared. It's a catch 22. I would ask if you're in a guild with good boons? They really help a huge amount.

I haven't researched HR armor as I don't have one but have you compared stats across all the different armor sets? You can do that in the 'collections' option in the menu. You need your resistance ignored at 60%, crit chance above 50% and power above 16k. For HR I'd personally suggest negation and vorpal and stack lifesteal to 4k+ and look at your companions.

If you get the full Archon set (at purple) and run with a mercenary companion (who will take some of the aggro) you will notice a nice increase in damage and survivability.

Also, have you taken the 4th boons in Dread Ring and Sharandar that heal you? They really help - that's the Elven Tranquillity and Enraged Growth ones.

My guild is one I run but sadly I am the only one giving stuff to and no one wants to join so we are still at rank one. I also have more companions that I can list and my crit/armor pin and resist ignore is around 50% Trust me I am geared the best I could be with builds that tend to be nightmares to anyone you are fighting but when a class needs the very gear they are trying to get to get the gear they need to get that gear then the class is far too weak. If you need to rely on other people while you run around trying not to die you are too weak. But this is about the logic of a GWF skill not a HR class.

armadeonx

Ok I get you. Your RI still needs to come up though, bosses and some ordinary enemies in places like IWD have defence in excess of 50% and if that's above your RI then your power stat counts for almost nothing.

It's a hard choice, but if your guild isn't working on boons then you may need to consider a switch to one that is. Guilds like Ruthless and Cold Booded have excellent boons and no entry fees. 4k defence and 4-5k power are amazing additions to your damage and survivability.

If you don't want to go that far you may want to consider making Influence runs mandatory. They only take 15 mins and will drop vouchers for campaign donations that'll take some of the burden from farming these areas.

Also on companions - it's about having the 'right' ones active. E.g. the archon set will add 7-20% extra damage (depending on where your & the enemy's health is) and you absolutely need high ranked bonding runes in your summoned companion.

What armour & weapon enchantments are you using?

Edit: on "when a class needs the very gear they are trying to get to get the gear they need to get that gear then the class is far too weak." - no that's not the class, that's the game. I run 6 classes now and except for the Paladin, nobody has an easy time soloing in the harder areas until they get above a certain point.

bladedge12

armadeonx said:

Ok I get you. Your RI still needs to come up though, bosses and some ordinary enemies in places like IWD have defence in excess of 50% and if that's above your RI then your power stat counts for almost nothing.

It's a hard choice, but if your guild isn't working on boons then you may need to consider a switch to one that is. Guilds like Ruthless and Cold Booded have excellent boons and no entry fees. 4k defence and 4-5k power are amazing additions to your damage and survivability.

If you don't want to go that far you may want to consider making Influence runs mandatory. They only take 15 mins and will drop vouchers for campaign donations that'll take some of the burden from farming these areas.

Also on companions - it's about having the 'right' ones active. E.g. the archon set will add 7-20% extra damage (depending on where your & the enemy's health is) and you absolutely need high ranked bonding runes in your summoned companion.

What armour enchantment are you using? You need at minimum a regular negation.

I have so many companions so I have the "right" ones. And trust me I have been in this game since it came to xbox. I have the best stuff I can get on them with how restrictive the game is to get gear.

armadeonx

Can you tell me the stats you're receiving from your active companions?

bladedge12

armadeonx said:

Can you tell me the stats you're receiving from your active companions?

For what class?

armadeonx

your GWF

bladedge12

armadeonx said:

your GWF

All the same compaions on that build but the stone instead of the first one and as it stands right now a blue siege master in place as the 2ed.

bladedge12

armadeonx said:

your GWF

Wait I am wrong I have the demon one from the warlock pack not the other horn one.

armadeonx

The Zentarim Warlock? That's a very good one - is that your summoned companion and are you using bonding runestones on it?

By stats I mean - for example - my CW has:
Air Archon (purple)
Water Archon (purple)
Fire Archon (purple)
Earth Archon (purple)

Together, these provide between 7.5% & 22.5% additional damage depending on the health of myself and the enemy.

He's currently using an Ioun Stone as summoned as I don't have my bonding runes high enough to switch to merc yet - but that's a goal for me.

The Ioun gives me (roughly, from memory)
2.5k power
1.2k recovery
840 crit
840 lifesteal

bladedge12

armadeonx said:

The Zentarim Warlock? That's a very good one - is that your summoned companion and are you using bonding runestones on it?

By stats I mean - for example - my CW has:
Air Archon (purple)
Water Archon (purple)
Fire Archon (purple)
Earth Archon (purple)

Together, these provide between 7.5% & 22.5% additional damage depending on the health of myself and the enemy.

He's currently using an Ioun Stone as summoned as I don't have my bonding runes high enough to switch to merc yet - but that's a goal for me.

The Ioun gives me (roughly, from memory)
2.5k power
1.2k recovery
840 crit
840 lifesteal

No I have the Erinyes of Belial and the stone is the one I use.

smellycat2012

Unstoppable "immune to control effects" does not mean "invincible". The devs should change it to "immune to most control effects". You can still get hurt by normal attacks and red zone attacks.

Besides the normal use of speeding up attacks, you can use it to break out of being frozen and reduce other physical attacks (e.g. pushback when dragon flaps wings).

If you're fighting an enemy PVE GWF, you'll notice when he uses spinning strike you still get bounced back under unstoppable.

Demogorgon uses "mind" attacks which are not blocked by any regular armor. Look at the Drowcraft armor pieces to see how to reduce Demogorgon attacks. Parts of the Dusk set also help. Along with the mounts introduced with Underdark.

If you time IBS right, you can use it to fill up the unstoppable meter enough to go back into unstoppable almost immediately.

ltsmithneko

@bladedge12 for a gwf I would recommend [Active companion]Mercenary or Z warlock [Companions]Fire and air archon, yeti, and Scourge Warlock pack companion ^.^

tim

I apologize for this being so far off topic . But has any other GWF noticed the elemental fire great axe not display the 4% for 2nd,3rd and 4th only displays ??% ? Thank you for any help understanding this

bladedge12

smellycat2012 said:

Unstoppable "immune to control effects" does not mean "invincible". The devs should change it to "immune to most control effects". You can still get hurt by normal attacks and red zone attacks.

Besides the normal use of speeding up attacks, you can use it to break out of being frozen and reduce other physical attacks (e.g. pushback when dragon flaps wings).

If you're fighting an enemy PVE GWF, you'll notice when he uses spinning strike you still get bounced back under unstoppable.

Demogorgon uses "mind" attacks which are not blocked by any regular armor. Look at the Drowcraft armor pieces to see how to reduce Demogorgon attacks. Parts of the Dusk set also help. Along with the mounts introduced with Underdark.

If you time IBS right, you can use it to fill up the unstoppable meter enough to go back into unstoppable almost immediately.

"Unstoppable "immune to control effects" does not mean "invincible"." Yes I know but I never said immune to control effects means invincible. I said that "unstoppable means can not be stopped." and going on the name of the power alone that should mean "can not be killed." Now if you want to have it set up so that if you do take enough damage that kills you after it runs out then you die.

bladedge12

ltsmithneko said:

@bladedge12 for a gwf I would recommend [Active companion]Mercenary or Z warlock [Companions]Fire and air archon, yeti, and Scourge Warlock pack companion ^.^

I have been trying to get that yeti but it never takes the treat i give it. as for the Mercenary I am trying to collect him but is that Z warlock even in the game? I do not even see it on the collections page.

zephyriah

bladedge12 said:

ltsmithneko said:

@bladedge12 for a gwf I would recommend [Active companion]Mercenary or Z warlock [Companions]Fire and air archon, yeti, and Scourge Warlock pack companion ^.^

I have been trying to get that yeti but it never takes the treat i give it. as for the Mercenary I am trying to collect him but is that Z warlock even in the game? I do not even see it on the collections page.

Z warlock is/was a promotional item on PC, on Xbox the only place to get one was a parcel drop during the Winter Festival. So, the AH is your only option for now.

bladedge12

zephyriah said:

bladedge12 said:

ltsmithneko said:

@bladedge12 for a gwf I would recommend [Active companion]Mercenary or Z warlock [Companions]Fire and air archon, yeti, and Scourge Warlock pack companion ^.^

I have been trying to get that yeti but it never takes the treat i give it. as for the Mercenary I am trying to collect him but is that Z warlock even in the game? I do not even see it on the collections page.

Z warlock is/was a promotional item on PC, on Xbox the only place to get one was a parcel drop during the Winter Festival. So, the AH is your only option for now.

Ah thank you. Not too many that have one tell how to get it. Itsmithneko I am sure would have told me. They are really good about giving out info from what I have seen.

smellycat2012

The mercenary comes from the Zen market Heritage armor pack. He's a fast attacker, Trickster Rogue type companion.

bladedge12

smellycat2012 said:

The mercenary comes from the Zen market Heritage armor pack. He's a fast attacker, Trickster Rogue type companion.

I know I found that out. 2000 zen is not easy to get. But thank you.

ltsmithneko

bladedge12 said:

ltsmithneko said:

@bladedge12 for a gwf I would recommend [Active companion]Mercenary or Z warlock [Companions]Fire and air archon, yeti, and Scourge Warlock pack companion ^.^

I have been trying to get that yeti but it never takes the treat i give it. as for the Mercenary I am trying to collect him but is that Z warlock even in the game? I do not even see it on the collections page.

The Z warlock was a reward from winter fest gifts ^.^

zak3056

armadeonx said:

Example - my CW has:
Air Archon (purple)
Water Archon (purple)
Fire Archon (purple)
Earth Archon (purple)

FWIW, I'd lose the Water Archon. That has to be one of the most useless active bonuses ever (it's good for one hit) unless you've got a build that can oneshot everything you meet. the Earth Archon is probably marginal once we get the pally nerfs, as it will be a lot harder to stay at 100% health. You may want to look into the blink dog and intellect devourer to replace them, as at purple they bring a large amount of dps to the table, especially for a CW (assuming you're running Nightmare Wizardry).

thefiresidecat

as far as HR's go. I do think they need a buff. yeah, you can have a killer build and if you're really fast and coordinated you can do some killer damage. but compared to other classes it's much much harder to coax that damage out. I wouldn't say it's skill unless skill is having a lot of button mashing abilities. I've played all the classes now and to do HR well it takes a lot more work than any other class. the specs have to be just so. the order you mash the buttons has to be just so. the companion has to be just so. compared to the gwf who just says BORK>> BORK BORK BORK yah know?

If you're getting your toon up into the 3k range and really paying attention yeah, it's fine but for your average player in the 2.5 range the hr is kind of weenie (notice I say average.. there are some really attention detailed lower levels..)

a little more survivability a little more speed would be what I would do for the HR's native abilities.


back to gwf. I have a baby gwf.. level 19 currently. I've started speccing it out for pvp. lower level pvp is fun. thinking about taking it to 60 and then maybe using my other lvl 16 to do low level pvp again. it seems a lot more balanced when people have fewer powers. high level pvp is just redonkulous. so unbalanced and I don't think there is a cure other than stripping away most powers.

cesar

bladedge12 said:

I said that "unstoppable means can not be stopped." and going on the name of the power alone that should mean "can not be killed." Now if you want to have it set up so that if you do take enough damage that kills you after it runs out then you die.

"Cannot be stopped" does not mean "cannot be killed".

bladedge12

cesar#6784 said:

bladedge12 said:

I said that "unstoppable means can not be stopped." and going on the name of the power alone that should mean "can not be killed." Now if you want to have it set up so that if you do take enough damage that kills you after it runs out then you die.

"Cannot be stopped" does not mean "cannot be killed".

Even so the way it is worded is not what it does. you can not have something that says "immune" then something else that says "even if immune." it is or is not.

cesar

bladedge12 said:

Even so the way it is worded is not what it does. you can not have something that says "immune" then something else that says "even if immune." it is or is not.

"With grim resolve you break free from control effects, and steel yourself for the challenge ahead.

While active, you are inmune to control effects, your At-Will attacks are much faster but slightly weaker, and you resist 25-50% of incoming damage based on how much Determination you had."

It clearly states what you are inmune to and how much incoming damage is ignored.