Forgemaser's Flame OR Break the Spirit for Pve single target buff-debuff?

mouth047

***EDIT: Apols, meant to say this question is for pve single target debuff***

1) No High Prophet set (started game too late)
2) DO Righteous build

Was running empowered FF until I read BtS is now fixed and working as it should.


Rotation with BtS:
HG > AS > BotSx2 > DG > FF > [DG > BtS > BtS] > *BtS*

Rotation with FF:
HG > AS > BotSx2 > DG > BtS > [DG > FF > FF] > *FF*

[ ] = cast in divinity
** = empowered

Without HP set i'm severely limited the strength of my debuffs, the BtS rotation will proc Bear Your Sins 10% dmg buff with FF DoT, then buff 40% dmg with r4 emp BtS.

OR the FF rotation will debuff 20% with BtS, then buff 25% dmg with r4 emp FF.

Which is better for me without the awesomeness of HP set please guys?


>>Oh and on a second note, I see people still casting [DGx3] but was under the impression DG is still broken and not stacking in divinty?

Unknown

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durugudesu

going by the what the encounter description says, i dont know why you are asking if you need to use bts or ff. go bts for maximum buffs.

Also, I am not a DO, i am AA(righteous), but why use bts and ff and dg in one rotation? wouldnt using PoD better? And this is assuming you are not running with at GF, because if you do, you need to slot in Astral Shield.

I hope this helps. not quite sure though.

fizbad

In the empowered segment of the rotation, I'd rather use FF than BtS because of the slow effect. Also, I'd probably use SB over both to spread DoTs (and in my case also Foresight. In most cases though buffs > personal DPS, so BtS should be preferable.

mouth047

Yes meant to say this rotation is for single target boss.

Without HP set, will I still get more bang for my buck with the emp BtS or emp FF+BtS (debuff non emp)?

Here's one of the discussions on DG in divinity mode:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/493020/divine-glow-not-working

And TehPuppy confirming here:
"Yes, BtS, FF, and DG will all stack. Just bear in mind that FF and BtS only provide a buff when cast with empowered ticks. Also, it would appear that DG cast in divine mode is currently bugged and only applies it's damage buff once making subsequent tasks a potential waste of divine casts. I say "it appears" and "potential" because the character sheet only indicates a player receiving the first cast and not subsequent casts."

fizbad

Also, DG actually provides a 10% damage buff in divine mode as opposed to the 5% the tooltip suggest -- so yes, it is broken.

lerapiso818

Are you asking what's better between a 15% and a 30% dmg buff ?

fizbad

lerapiso818 said:

Are you asking what's better between a 15% and a 30% dmg buff ?

Read the post first, perhaps?

lerapiso818

fizbad said:

lerapiso818 said:

Are you asking what's better between a 15% and a 30% dmg buff ?

Read the post first, perhaps?

I try to understand but it doesn't make any sense to me, if you play with DG, FF, and BtS, why do you want to use eFF over eBtS ? I'm confused, 30 is obviously better than 15

fizbad

Because cooldowns exist, you can either cast FF and eBtS, or BtS and eFF. Going BtS - dDG - dBtS -dBtS - eFF is theoretically a lot of personal damage plus a sizeable damage debuff to the mob.

lerapiso818

fizbad said:

Because cooldowns exist, you can either cast FF and eBtS, or BtS and eFF. Going BtS - dDG - dBtS -dBtS - eFF is theoretically a lot of personal damage plus a sizeable damage debuff to the mob.

Ok but FF - dDG - dBtS -dBtS - eBtS is the same thing but you get a 30% dmg buff instead of a 15% one.
And BtS CD is really low, so this is not an issue

fizbad

lerapiso818 said:

fizbad said:

Because cooldowns exist, you can either cast FF and eBtS, or BtS and eFF. Going BtS - dDG - dBtS -dBtS - eFF is theoretically a lot of personal damage plus a sizeable damage debuff to the mob.

Ok but FF - dDG - dBtS -dBtS - eBtS is the same thing but you get a 30% dmg buff instead of a 15% one.
And BtS CD is really low, so this is not an issue

Of course it isn't. You're not getting a 20% damage debuff from the regular BtS, and the extra 30% damage on the fully empowered FF.

The cooldown of BtS may be short, but it won't be ready immediately after one divine rotation, not even with Avatar on.

jazzfong

It is hard to explain why, but from my previous experience running BtS is better and faster than FF. Never trust tooltip, get yourself a premade of 4 extreme dpser and run a few skirmish. Take 3 samples of each using different loadout. Check the timer of each runs, you get your answer then.

mouth047

fizbad said:

lerapiso818 said:

fizbad said:

Because cooldowns exist, you can either cast FF and eBtS, or BtS and eFF. Going BtS - dDG - dBtS -dBtS - eFF is theoretically a lot of personal damage plus a sizeable damage debuff to the mob.

Ok but FF - dDG - dBtS -dBtS - eBtS is the same thing but you get a 30% dmg buff instead of a 15% one.
And BtS CD is really low, so this is not an issue

Of course it isn't. You're not getting a 20% damage debuff from the regular BtS, and the extra 30% damage on the fully empowered FF.

The cooldown of BtS may be short, but it won't be ready immediately after one divine rotation, not even with Avatar on.

I think this clears up my confusion, I misunderstood regular BtS to be a defense debuff when it is in fact a target dmg debuff. In that case eBtS is the obvious choice thank you very much.

One more thing i'm not entirely clear on, does divinity BtS also apply the rank 1 PI's e.g dmg debuff and DoT or does it only apply slow PI as the tooltip suggests?

putzboy78

divine encounters only do what the tooltip says, its not a stacked benefit (i.e. not regular + divine effect)

mouth047

Thx, understood. What's a good encounter to cast in divine until they fix DG?

How about Prophecy of Doom? Cast after HG in normal debuffs defense, then switch to divinity which will deal extra dmg according to the tool tip.

E.g: HG > DG > PoD > [PoDx3] > *eBtS*

putzboy78

BtS for debuff

fizbad

putzboy78 said:

divine encounters only do what the tooltip says, its not a stacked benefit (i.e. not regular + divine effect)

However, the divine version will often (always?) stack with the non-divine version is active on target.

PoD is ok, however, some aspects of it seem broken, and people have been complaining about clunky animation. I have never used it, personally, but may end up putting points in it just because the stuff that we got t 70+ is so worthless.

putzboy78

the animation for pod (and many dc powers) is ungodly slow

dfnce

If i use DG/E-BtS/E-FF, I use the rotation: 3x empowered E-FF, normal DG, 1x-3x empowered E-BtS, normal DG.

When cooldown of skill #1 and #2 ends i already have prepared empowered stack to cast then. I don't always pursue all 3 empowered stacks for skill #2.

Problem with E-BtS, it is not always cover entire team like E/FF. So i rather put E-BtS as second one and treat it is as bonus for these standing on LoS between me and npc target.

fizbad

dfnce said:

If i use DG/E-BtS/E-FF, I use the rotation: 3x empowered E-FF, normal DG, 1x-3x empowered E-BtS, normal DG.

When cooldown of skill #1 and #2 ends i already have prepared empowered stack to cast then. I don't always pursue all 3 empowered stacks for skill #2.

Problem with E-BtS, it is not always cover entire team like E/FF. So i rather put E-BtS as second one and treat it is as bonus for these standing on LoS between me and npc target.

For eBtS is a circle around the caster, radius should be similar to HG. If you're standing too far to cover your team with HG, you're doing it wrong :P

putzboy78

dfnce

fizbad said:

dfnce said:

If i use DG/E-BtS/E-FF, I use the rotation: 3x empowered E-FF, normal DG, 1x-3x empowered E-BtS, normal DG.

When cooldown of skill #1 and #2 ends i already have prepared empowered stack to cast then. I don't always pursue all 3 empowered stacks for skill #2.

Problem with E-BtS, it is not always cover entire team like E/FF. So i rather put E-BtS as second one and treat it is as bonus for these standing on LoS between me and npc target.

For eBtS is a circle around the caster, radius should be similar to HG. If you're standing too far to cover your team with HG, you're doing it wrong :P

only after using gm help > defeat me lol

wankw

fizbad said:

Because cooldowns exist, you can either cast FF and eBtS, or BtS and eFF. Going BtS - dDG - dBtS -dBtS - eFF is theoretically a lot of personal damage plus a sizeable damage debuff to the mob.

Sorry, i'm a newbie DC.
Can tell me why the rotation includes dBts?
I thought there are other better powers in divine-mode
dBts only gives stuns right?
Am I missing something?
Thanks alot

fizbad

wankw said:

fizbad said:

Because cooldowns exist, you can either cast FF and eBtS, or BtS and eFF. Going BtS - dDG - dBtS -dBtS - eFF is theoretically a lot of personal damage plus a sizeable damage debuff to the mob.

Sorry, i'm a newbie DC.
Can tell me why the rotation includes dBts?
I thought there are other better powers in divine-mode
dBts only gives stuns right?
Am I missing something?
Thanks alot

"Only"? As opposed to what else?

mouth047

After much testing I now almost always run with:
[DG>Chains>Chains]>eBtS>DG>Chains
5% debuff>burst dmg>burst dmg>40% buff>15% debuff>burst dmg

Chains is my swappable power but I rarely bother. Alternate options are HW, PoD, DL depending on the situation. PoD is good for dragons but not so great for eDEMO (if ur aiming for gold circles etc) where there isn't enough time to complete the rotation.

I find this rotation extremely quick to cast and you dont need high recovery (if you're casting HG and at-wills in between).

Hope this thread has helped other new clerics who are looking to keep up buffs/debuffs.

Thanks to everyone who contributed, it was immensely helpful.

jazzfong

eDG=12.5% buff at rank 4, ebts gives 30% at 3 stacks

mouth047

Mine are both rank 4, so I guess I'm doing 17.5% debuff with normal divine glow and 40% buff with eBtS.

treesclimber

As far as i remember i never used FF to buff the team unless there is another DC with a brain and he's using Ebts, only then i switch to FF.
With guardian fighter that uses itf the best i could find was: Charge divinity---> dDG-> dDG in a unaffected ally-> dAS --->eBTS-> AS -> DG.
When i can just use everything i want without caring about saving anyone and GF doesn't use itf i just go Charge divinity---> dDG-> dDG in a unaffected ally-> dDG in a unaffected ally --->eBTS-> PoD -> DG. PoD has a long CD but avatar and my recovery usually take care of that for a while.