Grasping Roots Question

burnedpixel

Does "Grasping Roots" is considered a "control" effect? If I increase my "control bonus" does this increase the root's duration??

wdj40

Yes it does, but most people will tell you it is pretty useless on a HR. I myself like to get up to 800-1000 points in it and then it has a really bad decline in how much bang for your buck you get.

burnedpixel

For a trapper doesnt that mean that longer roots = more damage (because of "thorned roots" feat)?
Also boons that gives you x% control bonus is not worth it? It is not efficient to focus on a "crowd control" ranger type (pve wise)?

rayrdan

you apply roots so fast that control bonus if working is not useful.
and since thorned root ticks do not stack getting 8 ticks instead of 7 for example changes nothing. After 3 ticks you are already rooting them again.

burnedpixel

Oh i see, thank you! . And one more question... does increasing the "control bonus" increases the "crushing roots" duration?

rayrdan

burnedpixel said:

Oh i see, thank you! . And one more question... does increasing the "control bonus" increases the "crushing roots" duration?

the effect is so short i have really no way to increase it enough to see a clear difference but yes i would assume control bonus increases the duration of dazes.

burnedpixel

Thank you ranger expert guy:P! You definitely cleared my mind.. An other question came to me through. When an enemy is rooted, do I gain combat advantage against him? (Because when an enemy is CC like dazed i do gain combat advantage), but does the same thing apply to rooted enemies!

aaramis75

Nope, no extra damage unless you have a companion that grants it such as the Slyblade Kobold.

burnedpixel

Hmmm, so basically grasping roots IS a crowd control effect but you don't gain combat advantage when the enemy is affected.

To summarize, it is not worth investing in control abilities because a) the roots does not stack duration b) the daze (from the feat) is too short to rely on.

So, that leaves the ranger with the following: Small heals, tiny buffs, decent DoT abilities, decent mobility and decent damage. But nothing great at something?

I'm playing the ranger couple of weeks now and i really enjoy the agile and fast paced play style, but in the end what does the ranger class has to offer that distinguishes it from the the other classes? Maybe that it is kind of a versatile class, and you can do many moderate things with it but nothing great??

aaramis75

You buff the party, giving permanent CA, regen, Dodge, etc; and similarly benefit from them with abilities such as Gushing and Careful Attack.

Ranger is a great team player.

wdj40

burnedpixel said:

Hmmm, so basically grasping roots IS a crowd control effect but you don't gain combat advantage when the enemy is affected.

To summarize, it is not worth investing in control abilities because a) the roots does not stack duration b) the daze (from the feat) is too short to rely on.

So, that leaves the ranger with the following: Small heals, tiny buffs, decent DoT abilities, decent mobility and decent damage. But nothing great at something?

I'm playing the ranger couple of weeks now and i really enjoy the agile and fast paced play style, but in the end what does the ranger class has to offer that distinguishes it from the the other classes? Maybe that it is kind of a versatile class, and you can do many moderate things with it but nothing great??

Do not listen to all the haters of the HR... It is a fantastic class and by far the hardest to truly master. You can easily top most PUG runs for DPS and you can build for amazing survivability. I play on the xbox so its a little behind, but using a decently built HR you can solo just about anything within reason, like the 15 man SH HE's etc. The top ones out there can do crazy things like solo Epic Spider etc.... well above my league though lol.

rayrdan

wdj40 said:

burnedpixel said:

Hmmm, so basically grasping roots IS a crowd control effect but you don't gain combat advantage when the enemy is affected.

To summarize, it is not worth investing in control abilities because a) the roots does not stack duration b) the daze (from the feat) is too short to rely on.

So, that leaves the ranger with the following: Small heals, tiny buffs, decent DoT abilities, decent mobility and decent damage. But nothing great at something?

I'm playing the ranger couple of weeks now and i really enjoy the agile and fast paced play style, but in the end what does the ranger class has to offer that distinguishes it from the the other classes? Maybe that it is kind of a versatile class, and you can do many moderate things with it but nothing great??

Do not listen to all the haters of the HR... It is a fantastic class and by far the hardest to truly master. You can easily top most PUG runs for DPS and you can build for amazing survivability. I play on the xbox so its a little behind, but using a decently built HR you can solo just about anything within reason, like the 15 man SH HE's etc. The top ones out there can do crazy things like solo Epic Spider etc.... well above my league though lol.

its definitely the most entertaining class out here but follow me now pls because it has some really bad design choice that i hope can be fixed sooner or later.
every class has 2 different ways of surviving: shift mechanism + secondary abilitilies
stealth and impossible to catch for tr
unstoppable but hard dr increase with different encounters (we are talking of 20%+ dr) for gwf
shield and different encounters for gf
shield (25% to 50% dr and 25% control resist) for cws
crazy healing for sw.

what we get? the crappiest dodge in game and nothing else full stop. Wouldnt be nice to have some healing or a flat % deflect boost when switching for melee to range and viceversa? yes it would ...

damage:

all strikers classes have some burst damage and this helps a lot in pvp where we are lacking the most..thorned roots should be dealing the most damage with the first ticks and then hitting for less. For example this would help a lot! a general damage boost is needed anyways.

Every class has a way to get combat advantage alone: gf/gwf marks, tr stealth, cw crits, hr is only class where controlling doesnt grant combat advantage...

you never saw the old combat hr...used to have the same healing of a sw. So why combat hr does less damage than a healing dc and heal less than a sw? only god knows..

the class is in a sorrow state...it keeps to be fun but some design choice paired with 50% of our powers being totally awful dont help to keep it competitive where it matters the most..pvp

for example take hindering shot and the melee counter part.. the healing should be more, the dr should be more and probably it would be nice to have a control break effect attached on it. This would be one of the changes i would like to see in future.

burnedpixel

Yes I see.. Well i dont know about the pvp part as I stopped playing since the level raised (couldn't keep up with the tremendous boosts from artifacts and new runestones.

Anyways, what I was thinking was maybe a "DoT Bonus" stat? This would helped all ranger's bleed abilities, well, bleed stronger? Sinse so many of his powers can cause bleeding...

One other thing that really bothered me from the start was the swift, it is so awkward and it has a small delay - this means that you could only dodge slow incoming attacks. Maybe they could do this "every time you swift, you heal a small amount of HP" or "increases you dodge stat by x%"? I dont know, just throwing ideas...

And the lv 70 powers? I don't understand why "plant growth" does not trigger "thorned roots", I mean why not, what is the purpuse of this?. And thats what i gathered from just a few weeks of playing the class.. :P

wdj40

rayrdan said:

wdj40 said:

burnedpixel said:

Hmmm, so basically grasping roots IS a crowd control effect but you don't gain combat advantage when the enemy is affected.

To summarize, it is not worth investing in control abilities because a) the roots does not stack duration b) the daze (from the feat) is too short to rely on.

So, that leaves the ranger with the following: Small heals, tiny buffs, decent DoT abilities, decent mobility and decent damage. But nothing great at something?

I'm playing the ranger couple of weeks now and i really enjoy the agile and fast paced play style, but in the end what does the ranger class has to offer that distinguishes it from the the other classes? Maybe that it is kind of a versatile class, and you can do many moderate things with it but nothing great??

Do not listen to all the haters of the HR... It is a fantastic class and by far the hardest to truly master. You can easily top most PUG runs for DPS and you can build for amazing survivability. I play on the xbox so its a little behind, but using a decently built HR you can solo just about anything within reason, like the 15 man SH HE's etc. The top ones out there can do crazy things like solo Epic Spider etc.... well above my league though lol.

its definitely the most entertaining class out here but follow me now pls because it has some really bad design choice that i hope can be fixed sooner or later.
every class has 2 different ways of surviving: shift mechanism + secondary abilitilies
stealth and impossible to catch for tr
unstoppable but hard dr increase with different encounters (we are talking of 20%+ dr) for gwf
shield and different encounters for gf
shield (25% to 50% dr and 25% control resist) for cws
crazy healing for sw.

what we get? the crappiest dodge in game and nothing else full stop. Wouldnt be nice to have some healing or a flat % deflect boost when switching for melee to range and viceversa? yes it would ...

damage:

all strikers classes have some burst damage and this helps a lot in pvp where we are lacking the most..thorned roots should be dealing the most damage with the first ticks and then hitting for less. For example this would help a lot! a general damage boost is needed anyways.

Every class has a way to get combat advantage alone: gf/gwf marks, tr stealth, cw crits, hr is only class where controlling doesnt grant combat advantage...

you never saw the old combat hr...used to have the same healing of a sw. So why combat hr does less damage than a healing dc and heal less than a sw? only god knows..

the class is in a sorrow state...it keeps to be fun but some design choice paired with 50% of our powers being totally awful dont help to keep it competitive where it matters the most..pvp

for example take hindering shot and the melee counter part.. the healing should be more, the dr should be more and probably it would be nice to have a control break effect attached on it. This would be one of the changes i would like to see in future.

Not everyone plays for PvP though, some not at all. For PvE the HR is extremely fun to play

The melee version of Hindering Shot (Oak Skin) is quality and I am not sure why some people cannot get the most out of it. It heals me for 1k a tick now and that is perm combat healing, it resets Ranged Encounters in a group, it buffs your DR% by around 12% and Allies around 6% (the Ally part I have been unable to test myself), it triggers Rousing Warmth Boon and Burning Guidance Boon making a healing power into a slight attacking one too.

Although I have dropped Oak Skin lately as I no longer need it to survive, once you Life Steal gets high enough and other things healing you it can be dropped. It is still useful in places like Edemo etc.

rayrdan

let me explain better why it sucks.
oak skin used to heal for almost the same amount of now in mod 3-4-5 were as players we had around 28k HP. Now i have got 160k HP... so in the end the power kept 1/5 of its effectiveness.
binding shot does not proc throned roots if used from more than 30 feets.
and lets talk about stuffs like boar charge (which autostuns you), battlehoned (400 regen....) , ambush/bear trap, commanding shots... i know everyone have sucky powers but ours beat them all.

rayrdan

@wdj40 would you mind sharing a vid with oak skin proccing burning guidance? i have rousing warmth but the internal cooldown is too high (40 seconds +)

wdj40

rayrdan said:

@wdj40 would you mind sharing a vid with oak skin proccing burning guidance? i have rousing warmth but the internal cooldown is too high (40 seconds +)

A lot of my clips are from more recent rotations, I do have this old Spider one from back in January with my old rotations. If you watch the clip you will see Burning Guidance proccing a fair bit and sometimes when I`m not healing by other means. I have always been under the impression that BG procs on an attempted heal not just when you have actual healing come up after taking damage. It appears to proc more often when in a group, so I think you get a chance of it proccing per Ally Oak Skin is used on.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/wdj40/video/14169729

In case this is not accurate though I am going to hit some training dummies when I am online tonight and see if it procs on them.

rayrdan

@thefabricant if i remember well they changed burning guidance recently. you should know internal cooldown and damage value, can you tell me?

thefabricant

rayrdan said:

@thefabricant if i remember well they changed burning guidance recently. you should know internal cooldown and damage value, can you tell me?

2k damage, 1 second cooldown.

wdj40

thefabricant said:

rayrdan said:

@thefabricant if i remember well they changed burning guidance recently. you should know internal cooldown and damage value, can you tell me?

2k damage, 1 second cooldown.

Apparently it is piercing damage too, that part I have not really tested myself yet.

thefabricant

wdj40 said:

thefabricant said:

rayrdan said:

@thefabricant if i remember well they changed burning guidance recently. you should know internal cooldown and damage value, can you tell me?

2k damage, 1 second cooldown.

Apparently it is piercing damage too, that part I have not really tested myself yet.

I don't know if its piercing damage, I have capped arp on all the chars I play for pve and I do not pvp, so whether it is or is not isn't really meaningful to me and isn't something I have tested.

jaegernl

It's not piercing. It respects DR and ArP.

wdj40

jaegernl said:

It's not piercing. It respects DR and ArP.

Ah ok thank you, someone on Redditt stated it was Piercing, but I could not confirm that as it is not in my spec at the moment. Zen on the X1 has risen to 220 so I am not buying a retraining token for now as it is way too expensive.

jaegernl

wdj40 said:

jaegernl said:

It's not piercing. It respects DR and ArP.

Ah ok thank you, someone on Redditt stated it was Piercing, but I could not confirm that as it is not in my spec at the moment. Zen on the X1 has risen to 220 so I am not buying a retraining token for now as it is way too expensive.

You lucky HAMSTER. We're - on PC - nearing 500/1 once again.

soonergm

jaegernl said:

wdj40 said:

jaegernl said:

It's not piercing. It respects DR and ArP.

Ah ok thank you, someone on Redditt stated it was Piercing, but I could not confirm that as it is not in my spec at the moment. Zen on the X1 has risen to 220 so I am not buying a retraining token for now as it is way too expensive.

You lucky HAMSTER. We're - on PC - nearing 500/1 once again.

but all that AD on PC though...

rayrdan

soonergm said:

jaegernl said:

wdj40 said:

jaegernl said:

It's not piercing. It respects DR and ArP.

Ah ok thank you, someone on Redditt stated it was Piercing, but I could not confirm that as it is not in my spec at the moment. Zen on the X1 has risen to 220 so I am not buying a retraining token for now as it is way too expensive.

You lucky HAMSTER. We're - on PC - nearing 500/1 once again.

but all that AD on PC though...

...if you say so...

soonergm

rayrdan said:

soonergm said:

jaegernl said:

wdj40 said:

jaegernl said:

It's not piercing. It respects DR and ArP.

Ah ok thank you, someone on Redditt stated it was Piercing, but I could not confirm that as it is not in my spec at the moment. Zen on the X1 has risen to 220 so I am not buying a retraining token for now as it is way too expensive.

You lucky HAMSTER. We're - on PC - nearing 500/1 once again.

but all that AD on PC though...

...if you say so...

well, it has to be there, because otherwise nobody would be able to buy the zen at that ratio. you may not have it, but someone does.

kievitz

burnedpixel said:

Does "Grasping Roots" is considered a "control" effect? If I increase my "control bonus" does this increase the root's duration??

somebody tested this and what i can remember, any control bonus adds to your base strong root lenght 2sec weak root lenght 1sec, so the feat in trapper tree is unaffected by these control bonuses from boons, pets and other sources.

So if you get 15% conttrol bonus, your 2sec strong root now lasts 2.3 secs, plus maxed feat, which makes it 7.3 secs

somebody correct if i remembered wrong.

durugudesu

burnedpixel said:

Hmmm, so basically grasping roots IS a crowd control effect but you don't gain combat advantage when the enemy is affected.

To summarize, it is not worth investing in control abilities because a) the roots does not stack duration b) the daze (from the feat) is too short to rely on.

So, that leaves the ranger with the following: Small heals, tiny buffs, decent DoT abilities, decent mobility and decent damage. But nothing great at something?

I'm playing the ranger couple of weeks now and i really enjoy the agile and fast paced play style, but in the end what does the ranger class has to offer that distinguishes it from the the other classes? Maybe that it is kind of a versatile class, and you can do many moderate things with it but nothing great??

tinker around with HR more. read on feats, try out encounters, and im sure you can arrive at how to get the most damage out of it. and tiny buffs? im sorry haha, tinker more XD