Why would the Dev's give all the tunes the ability to go invisible.....GF';s

pr8orian

pvp is soooo friggin broken when GF's can go invisible more than a rogue..... and a Hunter Ranger can lock you into roots never to get out again...l.... why..... If knew the GF's were going to do that I would have made one..... you all have ruined this game

pr8orian

pfftr......... hundreds of dollars down the drain

icyphish

Its not GF, any class can go invisible more than a Rogue with AMBUSH RING, you can grab yourself one in Demo's encounter.

Yes, that ring is broken, but dev doesn't care about it, so yea, just play the way you like :O

rschrager

morenthar said:

Reality:

Want those rings? Farm those rings.

Does PvP have massive issues? FFS yes. Complaining about a ring is as absurd as expecting Cryptic to care enough to fix PvP.

Sad but true... but still, from a game design perspective, this feels like a poor man's attempt to add variety to PvP. There's nothing wrong with creating a bunch of different classes that have abilities unique to that class, all of which are competitive but require a different approach to be successful, and then letting players decide which one more closely fits their play style. This whole a la carte thing of 'I want a caster who does huge damage, wears plate mail, stealths and can buff and heal' is just lamezy (lame and lazy)

mamalion1234

Yesterday i encountered with my wizard a skilless gf from the crazynightexpress guild( since i cant shame and name i change the guild name). FAIled from stealth 15 times bull charge and team rescued him at 10% hp so he can keep the 0 deaths and anvil me to punish me ha!. FIRst time i see in domination stealthed gf cant even touch a wizard.

kweassa

Sad but true... but still, from a game design perspective, this feels like a poor man's attempt to add variety to PvP. There's nothing wrong with creating a bunch of different classes that have abilities unique to that class, all of which are competitive but require a different approach to be successful, and then letting players decide which one more closely fits their play style. This whole a la carte thing of 'I want a caster who does huge damage, wears plate mail, stealths and can buff and heal' is just lamezy (lame and lazy)

Just to knitpick, usually people don't call that "adding variety". It's usually called "homogenizing" in the PvP world.


(ps) and yeah, when something like that happens its usually considered the End Times. It means the people managing the game has lost their brains, and is making last-minute crazy attempts to bring back player interest and lure more people in with 'cool goodies'... which unfortunately, just breaks the game even more.

rschrager

^ yep
|

But to be clear, I wasn't trying to imply that what I called 'adding variety' was a good thing - that's why I prefaced it with the whole 'poor man's attempt' thing. My preference is 'pick a class with unique abilities that fits your style and then learn to play it effectively, even if that means taking a different approach to different opponents. You know... those outdated concepts like 'setting goals' and 'practicing until you're good'. Man... did I just date myself?

kweassa

morenthar said:

I'd like to point something out that has somehow evaded the discussion about Ambush Rings.



Everyone can find and do harm to each other in stealth. Sure, your opponent being in stealth is problematic.



What's keeping a player from using their in game powers, as well as their own powers of observation to track other players?



Good players have been doing it to TR for quite some time.



I'd also like to point out that there are Rings of Vision. Based on many inspections of players, they are being used.



Based on the constant stream of players farming Demogorgon, it seems most people are desirous of these items.



Call them what you will, the rings are in demand and they aren't going anywhere. Now that the Ring of Cowardice has been fixed, the rings do not bother me at all.



So here is the bottom line. Those rings are a part of the game. If you cry about them in PvP, walk directly to your nearest mirror and slap yourself in the face. Then stop playing the game.



If you continue to play the game, you deserve all the misery you experience for willingly putting yourself at a point of disadvantage.

Yeah, I stopped playing the game, and by the looks of it, the same with so many others.

I've tried a log-in last night, just to see how worse things have become. Tried log-in both before the server maintenance and after the maintenance. Waiting for a queue to pop up.... nothing. So then I tried to see how long it would take to get just one PvP queue. During the entirety of about four hours of experimental log-on, nothing.

In early phases of mod7, just before I quit the game, usually four hours would have granted me more than 10~12 casual GG matches. If sucked into one of those damned 50-minute premade matches, maybe 3~4.

So, was last night some sort of an oddity? Who knows. The only thing I know is, that now, there isn't even a PvP to complain about. It's just effectively dead.

So in turn, this is the bottom line of the bottom line you've mentioned -- nobody likes this homogenized, krapchi* where they've just mixed up this and that into all sorts of friggin' trash and garbage. Friggin' power inflations, plain stupid ideas, tiring amount of refining and money hogging, unbearable long silence from the devs, totally ignoring the player base, no hope of fixes or remedies.

All those stuff, took the "Player" out of the "Player versus Player". Nobody, no class is unique anymore. All of them are the same. Same accessories, same artifacts, same enchantments, same stats. Now, same stealth, same tactics. Hoho, maybe they thought us TRs were ruining the game, so they've decided to make all classes TRs? Who knows.


So, to a certain extent, I agree with your attitude. When you decide to play the game, you are agreeing to work under its flaws. That's normally what I would say to excessive whining and complaining. But frankly speaking, in the current situation, I think the whining and complaining is rightfully justified. It's not excessive -- it's simplu a recognition of just what the PvP in this game has come to.

And yes, it seems most people just cannot agree with its flaws -- hence they've all decided to not play, and just quit.


Everything comes into a full circle. All the rants I've put up many mods ago, warning the devs and the gamers about how NW PvP will go and break the same way CO PvP did.... it's all come true. And 'tis a real shame.

I'm keeping my characters for now, just in hopes they might show us new light at mod9 (which, so far, seems unlikely), but if mod9 doesn't show any improvement, or any visible attempt to rectify the current problems at hand, then that confirms my beliefs. The devs, or their marketing, or whomever makes the decisions, decided to take the most idiotic and stupid route possible for publishing games -- they took the "if we don't acknowledge the problem and pretend it doesn't exist, and just ignore the whiners, sooner or later they'll just shut their trap, and the problem will go away" strategy... if you can call that a 'strategy' in the first place.

When that time comes, every piece of currency and enchantments and what not I've owned, I'll just spray at any random nub that passes by and just delete everything, and finally I'm outta here for good. Because, that's what the game's worth -- nothing. All the hundreds of dollars I've spent over the years? Fu*k it. That's all down the trash as well. This Perfect World garbage can kiss my Perfect A$$.

zibadawa

morenthar said:

I'd like to point something out that has somehow evaded the discussion about Ambush Rings.



Everyone can find and do harm to each other in stealth. Sure, your opponent being in stealth is problematic.



What's keeping a player from using their in game powers, as well as their own powers of observation to track other players?



Good players have been doing it to TR for quite some time.



I'd also like to point out that there are Rings of Vision. Based on many inspections of players, they are being used.



Based on the constant stream of players farming Demogorgon, it seems most people are desirous of these items.



Call them what you will, the rings are in demand and they aren't going anywhere. Now that the Ring of Cowardice has been fixed, the rings do not bother me at all.



So here is the bottom line. Those rings are a part of the game. If you cry about them in PvP, walk directly to your nearest mirror and slap yourself in the face. Then stop playing the game.



If you continue to play the game, you deserve all the misery you experience for willingly putting yourself at a point of disadvantage.

The big difference here is that the GF's incredible burst damage is far less detectable when it's coming from ambush than is a TR's shocking execution. Anyone who wants to play a rapid-kill burst character in PvP doesn't look to TR anymore. They look at GF, because it is much, much better at it now that they can go stealth. TR = old and busted. GF = new hotness. A GF is also much more mobile in combat, since his defensive mechanic is just a prolonged walking around, which means he'll vanish from your sight as often as any TR ever could and take far less damage.

Ambush on a TR is barely even a thing. They can pretty much go invisible all they want, anyway, the ring is just quality of life. For guys like GF's, it's a massive power boost that puts the actual class it's iconic to to shame.

kweassa

Here's a fun bit for you chaps. Something I've discovered while internet surfing.




The pic you see, is from a powerpoint presentation. The event is described as NDC11 - Nexon Developer's Conference 2011, an open forum/conference for Korean game developers. Nexon is a Korean game developer/publisher, and currently publishes stuff like Tera. The presentation was given by a developer from Aurora Games, a Korean mobile-game company.

So what does it say in the title page of this presentation?

"Imbalance Creates Market for Cash-bought Items"


Huh. Neat stuff. Game developers are now actually holding conferences and officially implementing business models which is built upon the premise that games will be imbalanced on purpose. Before seeing this, I'd always assumed "developers break balance on purpose just to sell stuff" was a bit too extreme an argument, and didn't think any dev will actually do that.

But now, I know at least the Koreans do it. Chinese companies are hellbent on 'benchmarking' and copying every knowledge from Korean developers, and now, I'm not so certain about Perfect World.

I'm turning suspicious, and now I'm thinking this sudden, abrupt "radio silence" from the devs, where they stopped every direct/indirect contact with our PvP community, has something to do with it. They were so eager to receive opinions about stuff upto about mod5 preview... suggestions were quickly implemented and a lot of people were satisfied with their attempt to communicate with the community.

Then, around the end of mod5, they suddenly stop. Nothing. No contact. No comments. No questions. No request for info. No feedback, no update, nothing. And then, with that, here comes the endless stream of broken shi*... wards, drains, OP mounts... it's kinda hard to NOT imagine some sort of an internal, sinister policy change happened around then.

zibadawa

kweassa said:

Then, around the end of mod5, they suddenly stop. Nothing. No contact. No comments. No questions. No request for info. No feedback, no update, nothing. And then, with that, here comes the endless stream of broken shi*... wards, drains, OP mounts... it's kinda hard to NOT imagine some sort of an internal, sinister policy change happened around then.

Are you not aware of the mod6 debacle and the massive losses to the dev team?

kweassa

zibadawa said:

kweassa said:

Then, around the end of mod5, they suddenly stop. Nothing. No contact. No comments. No questions. No request for info. No feedback, no update, nothing. And then, with that, here comes the endless stream of broken shi*... wards, drains, OP mounts... it's kinda hard to NOT imagine some sort of an internal, sinister policy change happened around then.

Are you not aware of the mod6 debacle and the massive losses to the dev team?

Not that I know of. What happened?

kemi1984

kweassa said:

Here's a fun bit for you chaps. Something I've discovered while internet surfing.




The pic you see, is from a powerpoint presentation. The event is described as NDC11 - Nexon Developer's Conference 2011, an open forum/conference for Korean game developers. Nexon is a Korean game developer/publisher, and currently publishes stuff like Tera. The presentation was given by a developer from Aurora Games, a Korean mobile-game company.

So what does it say in the title page of this presentation?

"Imbalance Creates Market for Cash-bought Items"


Huh. Neat stuff. Game developers are now actually holding conferences and officially implementing business models which is built upon the premise that games will be imbalanced on purpose. Before seeing this, I'd always assumed "developers break balance on purpose just to sell stuff" was a bit too extreme an argument, and didn't think any dev will actually do that.

But now, I know at least the Koreans do it. Chinese companies are hellbent on 'benchmarking' and copying every knowledge from Korean developers, and now, I'm not so certain about Perfect World.

I'm turning suspicious, and now I'm thinking this sudden, abrupt "radio silence" from the devs, where they stopped every direct/indirect contact with our PvP community, has something to do with it. They were so eager to receive opinions about stuff upto about mod5 preview... suggestions were quickly implemented and a lot of people were satisfied with their attempt to communicate with the community.

Then, around the end of mod5, they suddenly stop. Nothing. No contact. No comments. No questions. No request for info. No feedback, no update, nothing. And then, with that, here comes the endless stream of broken shi*... wards, drains, OP mounts... it's kinda hard to NOT imagine some sort of an internal, sinister policy change happened around then.

It's obvious that they're creating an imbalanced things to milk the players lol. It's the easiest way to get as much cash out of the customers and do it fast. Of course it's not a long term plan because sooner rather than later everyone catches the trick and say "nope".
In NWO it's all about classes and items. The latest one is these regalia things and the mounts that give you bonuses? mount with passive healing on crit? o_O !!!!! Everyone thinking that it will not work are not serious at all. I'm sure that many players will give them money just to be able to buy that Tenser "oh it's 20m on the AH, bah! I will still get it !!!" than after some time they will nerf it to the ground saying it's because of balance reasons it really doesn't take a scientist to say it will probably happen.

So was/is with the Palladins, SWS's and HR's. So is with the wards,drains Dragon Hoard's etc etc. fast cash grabs and than a polite "GTFO".

Thanks for reading.

zibadawa

macjae said:

According to what was being said through other media, the NW development team was roughly halved around module 6 release, as a money-saving measure. The guy who was mainly in charge of balance was also gone shortly afterwards or around that time; his final piece of work was the OP.

So it may not be a deliberate policy so much as a lack of manpower. Or the two might be one and the same. Maybe some management guy started questioning the value of having designers employed on something that didn't directly lead to cash in-flows.

And while I understand the premise of some degree of imbalance pushing people to pay to try to overcome that or to switch to the new hotness, I also think that doesn't imply leaving game balance stale or rotting for long periods of time; they probably need to keep changing things both to give the illusion of responsiveness which keeps players hopeful and to keep putting up new things for players to buy into, not keep the same things OP for too long.

One big red flag indicating that they probably didn't implement this kind of approach was that the SW, a late-comer class, was severely underpowered for most of its existence. Selling by imbalance would probably imply that a new class like the SW should also be the new hotness in PvP. And while at times it could do a lot of damage in PvE, that relied on specific combinations, not the class in general being strong.

I'd heard--and to be clear, significant losses to the dev team seems an incontrovertible fact, it's the "how many?" and "why?" that is the subject of many rumors, which is what I'm about to say are--that the losses were in part due to a contract dispute. The dev team members had signed contracts specifying how many modules they were to release a year, but then WotC forced a higher number of modules per year on Cryptic, so they had to pass this increased work demand onto the dev team. Many of them took none too happily to this and left as a result. So the dev team was downsized and needed to bring in new members just to fill out the freshly reduced number of positions.

Players have a tendency to blame the general awfulness of mod 6 (Elemental Evil) on these losses to the dev team, and all subsequent ill-received changes are similarly blamed on a neutered dev team that had to pick up the pieces and hit the ground running following the massive losses, while still trying to meet module deadlines.

mamalion1234

another one pvp day we found the new reason for ambush. while enemy team is better running in stealth to avoid deaths so then post the leaderboard with kill death ratio.

drkbodhi

What really drives me nuts is the unskilled players who think they are better than you because they are hiding. Not many people seem to have the balls to go 1v1 or solo cap anymore. When they get called out to prove a point they run and hide.

I am often told that I suck a** as a TR because I do not hide and I don't run around. I challenge with a comment suggesting that if they want to measure skill over build, I am available.

I stopped thinking that someone is good by their ranking, I have to fight them to determine that.

I was in a match the other day with a 1.5k iL HR, who had the nerve to say he was fully capable of being a productive member of a team. He also said that he has the experience and he had an ambush ring... +1... and full PvP gear. Yeah the PvP gear that was below Grim. He thought he was being helpful...​​

rschrager

Ran into a guild group in gg the other day, all standing on 3 and jumping in circles to get their stealth rings to proc so that they could surprise some poor n00b showing up to claim it. It was such desperate stupidity that I just laughed and walked away.

plavia

you can't complain about something different, you can note its broken

sure ring of ambush have bugs:
you can stealth while ridding a bear (maybe it should be like this, idk)
every movment trigger it - rank 5 triger by allmost one dodge and even CW repeal can trigger it
it got some delay that even if I get 20 feet close to someone he can't see me (if i keep moving 20 feet around someone he can see me afetr a sec or two)


complaining that GF/GWF/TR/OP is too strong or this ring/enchant is too strong won't help.

top guilds can get bonus of 8,000 power for example... obviously its 'not fair' since it takes 99% of the players a month to farm rank 9 radiant. still this is the game and its not broken its just not balanced

there is allways something not balanced in PVP for as long as i remember (try playinfg DC 6 months ago).
now 99% of the players feel it so it disturbing, hopefully it will pop out in one of the statistics and they will do changes to the all PVP theme (items, events, boons, rewards etc.)

urlord283

Why not... It evens stuff up

I have been rooted, stunned, smoke bombed, drained, and hit by invisible folks for years.
The fact it is now open to other classes is a good thing