I suppose I am in the minority, but I would like to see either a return to five player teams or the option to enter a dungeon with 4 or 5 players. I am part of a group that plays together that specifically worked towards a five player team just for these dungeons.
Randy “Arkayne” Mosiondz said "Our goal here was to shorten the leveling dungeons," so I'll comment on that, as well. Having returned after a break just before the release of Strongholds and missing the installation of these changes, I have to say that the team succeeded fabulously at 'shortening' the dungeons by removing everything that was interesting about them. My first run through Cragmire Crypt after returning was disheartening to say the least and the new players in our guild are sick of hearing me tell them how much they are not seeing.
I suppose it is a matter of philosophy. I've heard so many times, "everything before level 70 is tutorial." That's just not so for me and the people I play with. There are 69 levels and 19 zones before the one level 70 and the seven zones for it. I can't be the only player who enjoys the story and the journey. Since I've returned, I've noticed that NWO is quite possibly the best MSO (Massively Single-Player Online) game out there. The point of those dungeons was not to level but to teach teamwork and so much of what has been added to the game has not done what it was added or changed to do, but rather to streamline the path to endgame.
Try not to forget there is a whole game before Endgame.
0
unknowndramaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 115Arc User
Dont get me wrong i like seeing dungeons back..bu will this dungeons will be another seal run or whill have something worth geting since there are only 3 dungeons that we play...1-elol for a chance of lostmauth's artifact,2-valindra tower for salvage gear and shard of valindra's crown and last Temple of Spiders for fast protector seals and purple gear for stronghold mimic so this dungeons we will play becose?
Try not to forget there is a whole game before Endgame.
There is no endgame. The dungeons are all 1600 / 2k / 2.5k which is the sole reason dungeons are so easy when you are playing on a 4k character. I like leveling and the story as well, it is quite easy in my opinion even tho some refer 61 - 70 as a 'grind'. But if you think about it, the real grind starts after that with getting your artifacts, gear and enchants. Not to mention the companions and the 'new' mounts that will require people to actively go after those as well.
The gap between the current dungeons and the people that would like to have some endgame is becoming bigger with every module.
The number of 3k players is increasing but it's still a small portion of the player population.
How do you know? Do you have a link or something where i can see how many 2k/3k/4k players are in NW? Plz gimme that link. That would be great. Thx.
0
svenisperfectMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 40Arc User
If I'm reading this correctly, the new dungeons will have the same bronze/silver/gold completion mechanic as our latest skirmishes. So the challenge won't come from "omg this is so hard you can hardly do it if you aren't perfect" but from your the amount of effort you put into completing the tactic. I imagine dungeon run time being one of the 3 bars to evaluate your overall rank.
I think that this mechanic is a good change. Yes hardcore players and people with over a year worth of playtime in the game will not technically have to do alot to get a gold rank, but from a (mostly) solo player's perspective I quite enjoy the new ranking mechanic. It allows new players and people who aren't into "you have to read 20 pages on internet to learn this tactic for the dungeon" to still enjoy the content (that's a very good thing). Having a sub-optimal random queued party won't be punished too hard (only in the amount/quality of the loot, i imagine bronze will receive less seals or something).
For instance, when the epic dungeons were still in the former mode of 1 shotting players on a regular basis (instead of the high health, lower hits that it is now) you would just spend hours trying to even get to a boss encounter, which would then have to be kited to the nearest fireplace. Some people do not have a 3 hours slot in their day where they can continualy play a game and then not even get the pretty purple seal because you couldn't finish a boss fight with your random queue party before the quitters stopped the queue from finding additional people.
In short, new bronze/silver/gold completion tier system is a good idea because it allows people to at least get something for the effort and time they invested in it. Yes, less appealing to people that want an elite raiding culture like there exists in different mmo's but overall it's better for the entire player base since everyone can enjoy the content to their level of play.
Good job dev team!
0
lordseth1985Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 319Arc User
All I want is the return of the old armor sets with the "new" remodeled dungeons...
Avestruz.Q.T.Seduz - Rogue, natural born assassin.
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
My true hope is that they make cn 3k i level .
There are thousands and thousands of players who can manage that now. .
This still leaves most of the game easily available to most of the players.. but having 1 sort of end gamish dungeon would be nice.
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
If I'm reading this correctly, the new dungeons will have the same bronze/silver/gold completion mechanic as our latest skirmishes. So the challenge won't come from "omg this is so hard you can hardly do it if you aren't perfect" but from your the amount of effort you put into completing the tactic. I imagine dungeon run time being one of the 3 bars to evaluate your overall rank.
I think that this mechanic is a good change. Yes hardcore players and people with over a year worth of playtime in the game will not technically have to do alot to get a gold rank, but from a (mostly) solo player's perspective I quite enjoy the new ranking mechanic. It allows new players and people who aren't into "you have to read 20 pages on internet to learn this tactic for the dungeon" to still enjoy the content (that's a very good thing). Having a sub-optimal random queued party won't be punished too hard (only in the amount/quality of the loot, i imagine bronze will receive less seals or something).
For instance, when the epic dungeons were still in the former mode of 1 shotting players on a regular basis (instead of the high health, lower hits that it is now) you would just spend hours trying to even get to a boss encounter, which would then have to be kited to the nearest fireplace. Some people do not have a 3 hours slot in their day where they can continualy play a game and then not even get the pretty purple seal because you couldn't finish a boss fight with your random queue party before the quitters stopped the queue from finding additional people.
In short, new bronze/silver/gold completion tier system is a good idea because it allows people to at least get something for the effort and time they invested in it. Yes, less appealing to people that want an elite raiding culture like there exists in different mmo's but overall it's better for the entire player base since everyone can enjoy the content to their level of play.
Good job dev team!
Disagree.. you get the same effing rolls from a bronze that you do with a gold.. you do know that right? all they do is add ichor or whatever is the difference.
unless they ADD like direct AD with a gold vs a bronze.. who cares.
It makes no difference in the end.
0
santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
T2 set looks are confirmed returning. Also lol @ that bloom and filters in before & after shots. Before looked better. After looks like overly blurry Call of Duty.
Agreed. It will make it more difficult because of the lighting, but does not look better.
Some seem to think that there will be only a 3 man version of the other 4 old dungeons.. is this the case? Are they coming with a 5 Man Epic version too?
“Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
oh so because you dont run a op you say they are broken, just as bad as all the crying about lost mau set etc, funny how people pick certain things an say they are broke. Maybe people outta begin to realize that some of these things are meant to be what they are.
If a class feature exists that lets the whole party stand in the red area of a T2 boss for the entire battle and take no damage, it's broke.
Disagree.. you get the same effing rolls from a bronze that you do with a gold.. you do know that right? all they do is add ichor or whatever is the difference.
It makes no difference in the end.
exactly i have aquired only 2 +5 rings both of which came from bronze finnishes
0
svenisperfectMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 40Arc User
Disagree.. you get the same effing rolls from a bronze that you do with a gold.. you do know that right? all they do is add ichor or whatever is the difference.
unless they ADD like direct AD with a gold vs a bronze.. who cares.
It makes no difference in the end.
So you are saying people that have bronze finishes shouldn't get the rings ever? And how would you know that a gold finish doesn't actually increase the chance of dropping good rings just because there are more posts by people that got lucky and finding said rings in a bronze finish?
Also more tokens from a gold finish actually makes sense, since if you finish better it should mean that you have to do the dungeon/skirmish/demogorgon less times for an X amount of ichor vs someone who has a bronze finish. And that "same effing rolls" is exactly the reason why the system is so good. Wouldn't you be more upset if those bronze finishes didn't net you the rings at all? And that people would just leave after a phase if it wasn't a gold phase 1 or 2? So yeah there is a difference, in that you can always get your loot even if you somehow can't do it perfectly because of certain reasons. If you can't be motivated to go for a gold finish "because loot rolls are the same" then that's fine too. Play as you like, which is exactly why they are using that system now ^^.
Are you going to POLLUTE these other dungeons with Demonic Stuff? I surely hope not... -.-
Oh noes! Please don't make the dungeons thematically mixed with the new content!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That would take the unique nature of the dungeon away... kinda like all the demonic encounters... which are ok and all... just change the face of what things were .... It's better to ADD on, and not ALTER what is already enjoyed (or was once enjoyed, such as the original dungeons)
This is a Thread about 4 dungeons returning. Must i read in every damn thread about some "broken" stuff? Its boring and anoying... Sunrise? You will love Frozen Heart. Was one of my favorite dungeons But i miss spellplague I looooooove the decission they made and we getting some dungeons back. Thats so cool ^^
0
svenisperfectMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 40Arc User
Well seeing as this game Neverwinter is now also actively contributing towards the Forgotten Realms event timeline I can say with certainty that there will be demons, lots of demons everywhere in the "new" content. Because thats what the story is all about, some Archmage lowered the barier between the planes of existance so that demons can roam freely into this plane. And now they are here to take over everything. So yeah, you might not like it but thats EXACTLY the reason (lorewise) why your character has to go into those dungeons/places to get rid of the demonic infestation .
But are they meant just for low level? Because it would be a tragedy that way. I want to play them. :* I looked at some screenshots but I really don't remember it. At least Dread Vault is one of the few missing I really disliked that one.
Try to find vids on YT. And yes, dread vault was one i hated most...this ugly brain made me headache ^^ I think all dungeons will come in epic version. Well...i hope so
0
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
But are they meant just for low level? Because it would be a tragedy that way. I want to play them. :* I looked at some screenshots but I really don't remember it. At least Dread Vault is one of the few missing I really disliked that one.
Try to find vids on YT. And yes, dread vault was one i hated most...this ugly brain made me headache ^^ I think all dungeons will come in epic version. Well...i hope so
Pffft, I loved edv, it was the best designed boss fight in the entire game...multiple stages, required a skilled group to beat it (until mod 4/5 where you could solo it). It is the quality of dungeon I would like to see in this game.
I suppose I am in the minority, but I would like to see either a return to five player teams or the option to enter a dungeon with 4 or 5 players. I am part of a group that plays together that specifically worked towards a five player team just for these dungeons.
Randy “Arkayne” Mosiondz said "Our goal here was to shorten the leveling dungeons," so I'll comment on that, as well. Having returned after a break just before the release of Strongholds and missing the installation of these changes, I have to say that the team succeeded fabulously at 'shortening' the dungeons by removing everything that was interesting about them. My first run through Cragmire Crypt after returning was disheartening to say the least and the new players in our guild are sick of hearing me tell them how much they are not seeing.
I suppose it is a matter of philosophy. I've heard so many times, "everything before level 70 is tutorial." That's just not so for me and the people I play with. There are 69 levels and 19 zones before the one level 70 and the seven zones for it. I can't be the only player who enjoys the story and the journey. Since I've returned, I've noticed that NWO is quite possibly the best MSO (Massively Single-Player Online) game out there. The point of those dungeons was not to level but to teach teamwork and so much of what has been added to the game has not done what it was added or changed to do, but rather to streamline the path to endgame.
Try not to forget there is a whole game before Endgame.
I could not agree more!
The original Cragmire Crypts had so many interesting areas! None of them were necessary to reach the end goal, which means that removing them was ***also*** unnecessary. It tells me that whoever made that decision has never run a PnP dungeon and/or has no concept of the wonder one feels when discovering something new (and the drive to explore so that you can hope to experience it).
Removing those areas was a huge mistake. Another one was changing the leveling dungeons such that only a three-man version is available. I cannot escape the feeling that the devs have never run a new character on Dragon with a PuG. The experience today, more often than not, is that one person runs ahead of the other two, completely ignoring everything on the way to each boss.
Leveling dungeons are supposed to exist to allow players to learn party roles and party cohesion. That isn't happening now until they reach the epic dungeons, which (I am sure) is one contributing factor to their difficulty. I couldn't count the number of times someone would run ahead in eCC, again and again, and then finally ragequit after dying for the fifth time -- because no one was able to help him, and *that* was because we were still dealing with the enemies he had ignored.
Party cohesion indeed.
The devs want to shorten the running time of dungeons to make the game more attractive to new players, but a dungeon is not a skirmish: in a dungeon, first and foremost, players should have the feeling that they are venturing into an unknown and dangerous place. A dungeon should not only invite exploration but also caution, even for veteran players. This necessarily involves a certain minimum running time. My suggestion is to also allow 5-man leveling dungeons that give increased rewards (or different rewards that don't introduce power creep, like special BoP fashion items, mounts, companions, or something). Alternately, side areas in dungeons (hint: PUT THEM BACK) should have a chance at dropping non-power-creep rewards.
There was -- and still is -- a way to make dungeons compelling without nerfing the character that makes them feel like dungeons in the first place.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
I find ETOS easier than ECC. Sincerely I don't care for Underdark, I like to run dungeons mostly, so the coming back is appreciated as with any economy fix (need fixing in Stronghold AD requirements and Respect feats AD requirements). Class balance still top priority, OP needs fixing, the perma-bubble builds are a threat to fun. Needs an ICD or a complete mechanic change (better). Anyway the game is better so hopefully there will b other fixes before the release of said dungeons. I'm happy for now (thanks devs for commitment).
oh so because you dont run a op you say they are broken, just as bad as all the crying about lost mau set etc, funny how people pick certain things an say they are broke. Maybe people outta begin to realize that some of these things are meant to be what they are.
Welcome new player, good to see some unexperienced players here at the forum. This way we have something to do, since we completed the rest of the game already.
Let me inform you, the OP is indeed OverPowered. This is intended however, so new players can catch up using an easy-to-play class. Since the storm spell fix new players were struggeling, so they needed a new face roll character.
Same goes for the Lostmaut set. You can use it, if you don't like a challenge in your life at all. Maybe you are tired from work or school and want some relaxing times in the evening.
Don't fool yourself. They are broken, so you BUY em, equip em, refine em. Ofc Cryptic wants you to use Blood Rubies only, keep this in mind.
Comments
Randy “Arkayne” Mosiondz said "Our goal here was to shorten the leveling dungeons," so I'll comment on that, as well. Having returned after a break just before the release of Strongholds and missing the installation of these changes, I have to say that the team succeeded fabulously at 'shortening' the dungeons by removing everything that was interesting about them. My first run through Cragmire Crypt after returning was disheartening to say the least and the new players in our guild are sick of hearing me tell them how much they are not seeing.
I suppose it is a matter of philosophy. I've heard so many times, "everything before level 70 is tutorial." That's just not so for me and the people I play with. There are 69 levels and 19 zones before the one level 70 and the seven zones for it. I can't be the only player who enjoys the story and the journey. Since I've returned, I've noticed that NWO is quite possibly the best MSO (Massively Single-Player Online) game out there. The point of those dungeons was not to level but to teach teamwork and so much of what has been added to the game has not done what it was added or changed to do, but rather to streamline the path to endgame.
Try not to forget there is a whole game before Endgame.
for stronghold mimic so this dungeons we will play becose?
I like leveling and the story as well, it is quite easy in my opinion even tho some refer 61 - 70 as a 'grind'. But if you think about it, the real grind starts after that with getting your artifacts, gear and enchants. Not to mention the companions and the 'new' mounts that will require people to actively go after those as well.
The gap between the current dungeons and the people that would like to have some endgame is becoming bigger with every module.
I think that this mechanic is a good change. Yes hardcore players and people with over a year worth of playtime in the game will not technically have to do alot to get a gold rank, but from a (mostly) solo player's perspective I quite enjoy the new ranking mechanic. It allows new players and people who aren't into "you have to read 20 pages on internet to learn this tactic for the dungeon" to still enjoy the content (that's a very good thing). Having a sub-optimal random queued party won't be punished too hard (only in the amount/quality of the loot, i imagine bronze will receive less seals or something).
For instance, when the epic dungeons were still in the former mode of 1 shotting players on a regular basis (instead of the high health, lower hits that it is now) you would just spend hours trying to even get to a boss encounter, which would then have to be kited to the nearest fireplace. Some people do not have a 3 hours slot in their day where they can continualy play a game and then not even get the pretty purple seal because you couldn't finish a boss fight with your random queue party before the quitters stopped the queue from finding additional people.
In short, new bronze/silver/gold completion tier system is a good idea because it allows people to at least get something for the effort and time they invested in it. Yes, less appealing to people that want an elite raiding culture like there exists in different mmo's but overall it's better for the entire player base since everyone can enjoy the content to their level of play.
Good job dev team!
There are thousands and thousands of players who can manage that now. .
This still leaves most of the game easily available to most of the players.. but having 1 sort of end gamish dungeon would be nice.
unless they ADD like direct AD with a gold vs a bronze.. who cares.
It makes no difference in the end.
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
blockquote class="Quote" rel="silverkelt"> exactly i have aquired only 2 +5 rings both of which came from bronze finnishes
Also more tokens from a gold finish actually makes sense, since if you finish better it should mean that you have to do the dungeon/skirmish/demogorgon less times for an X amount of ichor vs someone who has a bronze finish. And that "same effing rolls" is exactly the reason why the system is so good. Wouldn't you be more upset if those bronze finishes didn't net you the rings at all? And that people would just leave after a phase if it wasn't a gold phase 1 or 2? So yeah there is a difference, in that you can always get your loot even if you somehow can't do it perfectly because of certain reasons.
If you can't be motivated to go for a gold finish "because loot rolls are the same" then that's fine too. Play as you like, which is exactly why they are using that system now ^^.
This is a Thread about 4 dungeons returning. Must i read in every damn thread about some "broken" stuff? Its boring and anoying...
Sunrise? You will love Frozen Heart. Was one of my favorite dungeons
I looooooove the decission they made and we getting some dungeons back. Thats so cool ^^
I think all dungeons will come in epic version. Well...i hope so
The original Cragmire Crypts had so many interesting areas! None of them were necessary to reach the end goal, which means that removing them was ***also*** unnecessary. It tells me that whoever made that decision has never run a PnP dungeon and/or has no concept of the wonder one feels when discovering something new (and the drive to explore so that you can hope to experience it).
Removing those areas was a huge mistake. Another one was changing the leveling dungeons such that only a three-man version is available. I cannot escape the feeling that the devs have never run a new character on Dragon with a PuG. The experience today, more often than not, is that one person runs ahead of the other two, completely ignoring everything on the way to each boss.
Leveling dungeons are supposed to exist to allow players to learn party roles and party cohesion. That isn't happening now until they reach the epic dungeons, which (I am sure) is one contributing factor to their difficulty. I couldn't count the number of times someone would run ahead in eCC, again and again, and then finally ragequit after dying for the fifth time -- because no one was able to help him, and *that* was because we were still dealing with the enemies he had ignored.
Party cohesion indeed.
The devs want to shorten the running time of dungeons to make the game more attractive to new players, but a dungeon is not a skirmish: in a dungeon, first and foremost, players should have the feeling that they are venturing into an unknown and dangerous place. A dungeon should not only invite exploration but also caution, even for veteran players. This necessarily involves a certain minimum running time. My suggestion is to also allow 5-man leveling dungeons that give increased rewards (or different rewards that don't introduce power creep, like special BoP fashion items, mounts, companions, or something). Alternately, side areas in dungeons (hint: PUT THEM BACK) should have a chance at dropping non-power-creep rewards.
There was -- and still is -- a way to make dungeons compelling without nerfing the character that makes them feel like dungeons in the first place.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Glad this old request got some traction.
Let me inform you, the OP is indeed OverPowered. This is intended however, so new players can catch up using an easy-to-play class. Since the storm spell fix new players were struggeling, so they needed a new face roll character.
Same goes for the Lostmaut set. You can use it, if you don't like a challenge in your life at all. Maybe you are tired from work or school and want some relaxing times in the evening.
Don't fool yourself. They are broken, so you BUY em, equip em, refine em. Ofc Cryptic wants you to use Blood Rubies only, keep this in mind.
Heroes of Darkness
Retired since 02/15
My opinions are my own. Please do not judge my friends nor guild for my statements.