What should you do when you run an easy dungeon/skrimish and find one of the characters is ~ IL600?

aslan3775

Recently, I ran TOS for a quick AD run. I noticed one of the characters was really slow from the first fireplace, and thought it strange, but maybe a disconnect issue. After a few minutes, the character caught up with us, but didn't fight any creatures. This went on through the first and second boss. Inspect revealed a level 70 toon with ~ IL 600. We finished the dungeon, but I was a bit upset because it seemed I was taken advantage of for the AD. Especially since I sent a few questions to the character asking what they were doing standing off to one side during various fights. I was incredulous that during the last boss fight, they jumped on the platform and stood on the chest until we finished Sylindra. Kind of a final 'kiss-off'.

I don't mind carrying low level players that need the dungeon to level up or need AD. Other 3,000+IL characters have carried me when I was only 2200 in ELOL and I was very grateful, but this seemed a bit ridiculous. At least in those dungeons, I fought the monsters.

If I would have been asked, I would have absolutely said OK, I'll carry your level 70 alt with no equipment. After all, it's not hard to finish this dungeon.

Although I didn't use the survey form, I would like to know what other, mature minded players do when they encounter this situation. I thought about dropping from the dungeon, but I had invested five minutes and didn't want to restart. Kicking seems like such a waste of time as well. What other options are there, or what have you done in that situation?

sockmunkey

Item level should have nothing to do with it. If a person appears to be tying their best, I could care less about what gear they have. Id honestly rather carry a 1600il player who is trying hard. Then party with a 3000+il egoist who is racing ahead of the party, as an army of one, ignoring the rest of the group.

Conversely if the player is just standing around, not engaging at all. I have no issue with kicking them. This holds true regardless of their item level, be it 1600 or 4000.

fantasycharacter

If I see an obvious leech or bot I would first try to kick, second I would leave party as these dungeons are short enough I don't have to enable them.

Unknown

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clericalist

You should accept it, the game has allowed somebody to play with 1600k IL and you should not be surprised that you will encounter this. If this upsets you so much then you should play in private parties only. Also, the fact that they did not want to fully take part in the dungeon does not have anything to do with what IL they were, that can be done by any IL player.

silverkelt

if you dont want this to happen, dont random queue.. if your going to random queue, expect choas.

Frankly these are all solo stuff.. I dont even pay attention to people the rare times I might want to crush one of them out.. and its fairly rare for me (like 3 weeks ago was my last one)

I blow through everything I can door to door, destroy it all when I can and try to finish it in 7-8 mins if I can.

urlord283

I am a GF and very slow... many upper level folks just race through to get the AD... I'm ok with that but please remember not everyone can move fast

aslan3775

clericalist said:

You should accept it, the game has allowed somebody to play with 1600k IL and you should not be surprised that you will encounter this. If this upsets you so much then you should play in private parties only. Also, the fact that they did not want to fully take part in the dungeon does not have anything to do with what IL they were, that can be done by any IL player.

Actually, it wasn't 1600, but 600. Your comments are true, though. With the status of my current guild, I am forced to pug if I want to do multi-person requirements. I should 'expect chaos' as Silverkelt says, and get over it when it happens. I guess the idea of kicking/dropping will depend upon whether I suck it up and take the high road or whether I decide they are leeching/botting and just leave. Keep in mind, I meant a super easy, quick dungeon basically made to get your 4.5K AD, not eTOS or Lostmauth, etc. In those cases, the 1600 IL would have kicked in, and the behavior I described would have warranted a kick almost immediately.

silverkelt said:

if you dont want this to happen, dont random queue.. if your going to random queue, expect choas.

Frankly these are all solo stuff.. I dont even pay attention to people the rare times I might want to crush one of them out.. and its fairly rare for me (like 3 weeks ago was my last one)

I blow through everything I can door to door, destroy it all when I can and try to finish it in 7-8 mins if I can.

Is there a way to do TOS and similar dungeons solo? I remember back when the dungeons were accessible from the door (Lair of Mad Dragon, Crypt, etc.) you could over-ride the 3 or 5 person requirement--is this possible in the queue system?

urlord283 said:

I am a GF and very slow... many upper level folks just race through to get the AD... I'm ok with that but please remember not everyone can move fast

I understand some classes are slower--but to jump on the chest at the last boss and watch the fight from a 'safe' vantage point--that's not speed--that's something else.

hadestemplar

aslan3775 said:

Recently, I ran TOS for a quick AD run. I noticed one of the characters was really slow from the first fireplace, and thought it strange, but maybe a disconnect issue. After a few minutes, the character caught up with us, but didn't fight any creatures. This went on through the first and second boss. Inspect revealed a level 70 toon with ~ IL 600. We finished the dungeon, but I was a bit upset because it seemed I was taken advantage of for the AD. Especially since I sent a few questions to the character asking what they were doing standing off to one side during various fights. I was incredulous that during the last boss fight, they jumped on the platform and stood on the chest until we finished Sylindra. Kind of a final 'kiss-off'.

I don't mind carrying low level players that need the dungeon to level up or need AD. Other 3,000+IL characters have carried me when I was only 2200 in ELOL and I was very grateful, but this seemed a bit ridiculous. At least in those dungeons, I fought the monsters.

If I would have been asked, I would have absolutely said OK, I'll carry your level 70 alt with no equipment. After all, it's not hard to finish this dungeon.

Although I didn't use the survey form, I would like to know what other, mature minded players do when they encounter this situation. I thought about dropping from the dungeon, but I had invested five minutes and didn't want to restart. Kicking seems like such a waste of time as well. What other options are there, or what have you done in that situation?

If that guy is undergeared, green/newbie/inexperienced. Still is OK. We all have been in such situation.
Currently NWO community are spoiled with easy gaming and easy wining. I have been i epic spider temple with party who just passed requirements to get there.. And u know it was great time.. I didn't annoyed even we cleared dungeon in about 3hour.

Also I have been in party which kicked me because I didn't kill all monsters around with 1 or 2 hits.. These guys where way overgeared/overbuffed, First boss got killed in about ~9 or 12 seconds..

Also are u sure he didn't fought with monsters.. If you are not so great geared u will not kill monsters with 1 or 2 hits. Maybe simply his dmg output where low. Also next question would be, what class and where.. Also maybe he where more supporter build not as mainstream DPS.

baronstragen

No offence, but I have a very long friends list from people I've randomly done dungeons with in the past few years. I watch people when I do dungeons and offer to friend people that are hard working and friendly. I don't care about the gear, just trying your best means a lot to me. If you ever need a hand, invite me and I'll always help. I use my friends list before I even try the LFG channel.

Varric
(@baronstragen)

ratjam

Now, i can understand the op if it was epic tos, but complaining about having to carry a fresh lvl70 through normal tos... Are you kidding me?

lantern22

Are you ppl even reading the OP's post.

It was TOS, not eTOS. IL was 600, not 1600.

The OP wasn't complaining about having to carry someone, they were complaining that the "someone" wasn't trying to contribute to the party progress in anyway. I've never actually seen that happen but if it did, and your 100% sure, it's BS and kick them. They can at least play and die a few times, as if they can't afford a few kits.

TBH, if what the OP said is correct, sounds like a bot and needs to be kicked. But I don't know anything about bots so I'm not sure if it's even possible that it was one.

L

fantasycharacter

ratjam said:

Now, i can understand the op if it was epic tos, but complaining about having to carry a fresh lvl70 through normal tos... Are you kidding me?

ilevel 600 is not a fresh 70. You have to actively throw away gear or level without getting gear (aka invoking) to be at that level. It's a troll, leech or bot.

darkstarcrash

Yeah, that player was a leech, but there's really nothing you can do. If you tried to kick them, you'd get the message "unable to remove players while valuable items are on the ground" or something like that (even one green item will trigger that message).

Personally, I'll just keep going, since any of my 70s can solo nToS -- but if it offends you, go ahead and drop the team as soon as it's clear they're leeching. Of course, then you're HAMSTER over the other player, so I'd hold your nose and just finish it.

wylonus

with my GF, i used "into the fray", it made my group when i am in, as speed demon, it is very important to have for demogorgon fights.
it help others run to safe spots when the madness effect are up.

aslan3775

I know it sounded like I was whining, but I didn't mean it that way. I have never had this happen before, so I was curious what others do in this situation. I really appreciate all the responses, because not only does it give me a good idea of what others do, but it also provided a lot of really good thoughts about what could have happened and why the character didn't 'do anything'. They reminded me that there are some really cool players in this MMO--players that actually care about those that are not geared to do even easy dungeons. It makes it much easier to 'hold my nose' and play on

I don't think he was a bot. After a bit more thought, since I've heard a bot can basically do anything a player can do, I would think real botters would tend to group 3 man dungeons with their bots, using multiple computers, etc. I also think bots would tend to fight so that they can get to the next dungeon.

I think he was an alt--and like bloodyspamer mentioned, he was trying to get through the dungeon with an alt with no gear (several slots were empty, only a few had green gear, including weapons).

bloodyspamer said:

If that guy is undergeared, green/newbie/inexperienced. Still is OK. We all have been in such situation.
Currently NWO community are spoiled with easy gaming and easy wining. I have been i epic spider temple with party who just passed requirements to get there.. And u know it was great time.. I didn't annoyed even we cleared dungeon in about 3hour.

Also I have been in party which kicked me because I didn't kill all monsters around with 1 or 2 hits.. These guys where way overgeared/overbuffed, First boss got killed in about ~9 or 12 seconds..

Also are u sure he didn't fought with monsters.. If you are not so great geared u will not kill monsters with 1 or 2 hits. Maybe simply his dmg output where low. Also next question would be, what class and where.. Also maybe he where more supporter build not as mainstream DPS.

I was thinking that he didn't really fight because when you die, you have to go back to last respawn point. That actually would have slowed the dungeon down more. BTW, He was a TR, and you need to get close for most of your attacks (although throwing a dagger once in a while would have been nice). Soooooo--maybe by staying out of the way, it was best for the group

thanks for all the positive comments.

silverkelt

no.. you can enter and let people drop if you want to solo it.

these are the 3 man ones.. any 70 even with really crappy gear on, can solo them.

So if you drag someone through who cares.

fantasycharacter

*probably too inflammatory*

Unknown

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tassedethe13

defiantone99 said:

2000 IL is the minimum for TOS, not sure what the OP is about. If it is the normal level 50 TOS, it has no requirement and if you are 70 doing a level 50 dungeon, you are the one in the wrong.

What about running tos with an alt who isn't enought stuffed to do T1 and would be useless to the group, and I run tos because I need the AD ? Am i still wrong ?

The OP is about players not playing in the dungeon. In this case they were 600ilvl, but whatever, they just don't fight and let OP doing all the job.

asterotg

He is not complaining about bad gear, but about ppl/ bots missusing him, to farm RAD, contributing nothing, not even trying, slowing him down.

He said multiple times, that he does not mind carrying ppl with bad/ low gear.

IMO, 600 IL is a praying alt leeching RAD. I met one of them in POM, 600 IL (alt bc of the active SW pack companion). I wrote 'are you kidding me, 600 IL, really? Good luck.' and left the party.

My low alts have 1500 IL from account bound HAMSTER gear etc. If I would want to run a skirmish with them, I would go for the DR one and not leech POM.

I even saw one guy switching chars, while we run TOS, only online for the bossfight and the loot. This might be ok for you, but I asked him, if he thinks that this is ok and put him on ignore, after he did not even bother to reply.

I know, that there are ppl who need help, to gear/ level up, no problem, but carrying another players praying alt, when he does not even bother to spent 500 AD on its gear and is idle, is another matter. You might be ok with it, bc it is a PuG run, think, that this is clever or something else. IMO, this is egoistic and bad behaviour.

I would bet money on the fact, that the same guy (600 IL) would get mad, if he plays his main and I go AFK midfight, throwing the run.

Unknown

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tvcity

aslan3775 said:

Recently, I ran TOS for a quick AD run. I noticed one of the characters was really slow from the first fireplace, and thought it strange, but maybe a disconnect issue. After a few minutes, the character caught up with us, but didn't fight any creatures. This went on through the first and second boss. Inspect revealed a level 70 toon with ~ IL 600. We finished the dungeon, but I was a bit upset because it seemed I was taken advantage of for the AD. Especially since I sent a few questions to the character asking what they were doing standing off to one side during various fights. I was incredulous that during the last boss fight, they jumped on the platform and stood on the chest until we finished Sylindra. Kind of a final 'kiss-off'.

I don't mind carrying low level players that need the dungeon to level up or need AD. Other 3,000+IL characters have carried me when I was only 2200 in ELOL and I was very grateful, but this seemed a bit ridiculous. At least in those dungeons, I fought the monsters.

If I would have been asked, I would have absolutely said OK, I'll carry your level 70 alt with no equipment. After all, it's not hard to finish this dungeon.

Although I didn't use the survey form, I would like to know what other, mature minded players do when they encounter this situation. I thought about dropping from the dungeon, but I had invested five minutes and didn't want to restart. Kicking seems like such a waste of time as well. What other options are there, or what have you done in that situation?

the over-geared guys who run Normal version dungeons are the leeches here....why don't you run one that is level appropriate for your character?

i've heard several times from new players to the game that mostly they just have to run very fast through the dungeons and are not allowed to explore these dungeons because some s**t-headed players like you join....

and you call yourself "mature-minded"? atleast ask the player if he/ she wants to speedrun..

lantern22

tvcity said:

aslan3775 said:

Recently, I ran TOS for a quick AD run. I noticed one of the characters was really slow from the first fireplace, and thought it strange, but maybe a disconnect issue. After a few minutes, the character caught up with us, but didn't fight any creatures. This went on through the first and second boss. Inspect revealed a level 70 toon with ~ IL 600. We finished the dungeon, but I was a bit upset because it seemed I was taken advantage of for the AD. Especially since I sent a few questions to the character asking what they were doing standing off to one side during various fights. I was incredulous that during the last boss fight, they jumped on the platform and stood on the chest until we finished Sylindra. Kind of a final 'kiss-off'.

I don't mind carrying low level players that need the dungeon to level up or need AD. Other 3,000+IL characters have carried me when I was only 2200 in ELOL and I was very grateful, but this seemed a bit ridiculous. At least in those dungeons, I fought the monsters.

If I would have been asked, I would have absolutely said OK, I'll carry your level 70 alt with no equipment. After all, it's not hard to finish this dungeon.

Although I didn't use the survey form, I would like to know what other, mature minded players do when they encounter this situation. I thought about dropping from the dungeon, but I had invested five minutes and didn't want to restart. Kicking seems like such a waste of time as well. What other options are there, or what have you done in that situation?

the over-geared guys who run Normal version dungeons are the leeches here....why don't you run one that is level appropriate for your character?

i've heard several times from new players to the game that mostly they just have to run very fast through the dungeons and are not allowed to explore these dungeons because some s**t-headed players like you join....

and you call yourself "mature-minded"? atleast ask the player if he/ she wants to speedrun..

lol . . . .yeah because overgeared players in dungeons or skirmishes are often not welcome . . . lol

I'm assuming that English is not your first language, cause otherwise your comprehension is fairly poor, where was there a mention of a speed run? Or anything elese that warrants being called a s**t head ?

Harsh and uncalled for imo.

tvcity

lantern22 said:

lol . . . .yeah because overgeared players in dungeons or skirmishes are often not welcome . . . lol

I'm assuming that English is not your first language, cause otherwise your comprehension is fairly poor, where was there a mention of a speed run? Or anything elese that warrants being called a s**t head ?

Harsh and uncalled for imo.

regarding english...i don't wanna say anything but, he did mention "quick AD run" and then went on to compare "getting carried" in ELOL to "carrying someone" in Normal TOS.

the dude thinks he's some "big-dawg" in NW.. lol

aslan3775

tvcity said:

the dude thinks he's some "big-dawg" in NW.. lol

Big-dawg--are you kidding? "I AM OZ, THE GREAT AND POWERFUL. WHO ARE YOU?"

Seriously, the point of the post was to ask about the ethical thing to do when in a dungeon (level 50-70 or any dungeon) and another player doesn't contribute. I don't have any all powerful characters, I am only an average player, and I don't need to brag about a character in a video game. I just want to play the game so that everyone can enjoy the experience and I am not committing some cardinal sin of MMO-ville.

Based upon the replies in this thread and the similar theme BAD BOY DUNGEON thread, it appears that there are a variety of answers to the question--depending upon how someone plays the game and what their character needs. I was looking for a standard rule on what to do in this situation, and it appears that there isn't one.

Again, I appreciate your responses. It helps to see other viewpoints.