Classes: PvP and Inter vs Intra Balance

prometheusen

I'm a melee enthusiast. I like Guardian Fighters, Great Weapon Fighters, Trickster Rogues, etc. And while I do enjoy melee classes very much there is something seriously wrong with the present balance of classes. Let me start by saying: I don't believe ANY class needs to be nerfed (except for Trickster Rogues, and only in one way: if you manage to hit a hiding TR, that should negate their hiding status... or if they get too close--point-blank in your face, that should negate their hiding status. It's absolutely preposterous that they have an advantage of infallible stealth, about the same durability as a GWF, a reliable cone of damage/slow/stun that has a fabulous circumference and unapologetic amounts of damage that there simply is no countermeasure for... even though I like Trickster Rogues, as they are presently designed, the concept is offensively nepotic).

My contribution to this often, tensely discussed topic would be to improve the countermeasures of other classes. Hunter Rangers should be invulnerable when they activate Marauder's Escape, Great Weapon Fighters should get SOMETHING on the defensive front (they do well offensively if they land their hits, but otherwise, sprint is nearly worthless, and against any hard-hitting class--other than hopefully controlling the target first--they kinda have to take it; which they generally can't {unless unreasonably geared}. Not nearly as well as the "too-balanced" Guardian Fighter or the indestructible Oathbound Paladin), Scourge Warlocks should have some kind of countermeasure too; just as sprint is virtually worthless, shadow walk isn't all that impressive either when it matters most (although since maintaining distance is important for pvp purposes, shadow walk serves the Warlock better than sprint serves the GWF.. considering they need to close distances).

As it stands Guardian Fighters can take hits, are difficult to control, and they can dish out extreme damage within windows of opportunity. Extreme damage that is very difficult to do anything about (charging attacks that disable, followed by more extreme damage). Trickster Rogues can go invisible, stay invisible, do their silly knife throwing until their window of opportunity to do extreme damage emerges, of which they can meekly walk up to the helpless target, drop a sphere of "too-bad-too-sad" and dish out their daily, ending the fight before it began. Oathbound Paladins are so frustratingly durable, that it often just isn't worth fighting them; it can be done, but man it's hardly what you'd call a fight. Control Wizards, as much as they are reputed to complain, have the benefit of maintaining diistances far easier than a Scourge Warlock could.

Inter-balance vs. intra-balance.

Neverwinter woefully lacks in inter-balance. The design of these classes serves them in independent content going against the predictable environment of the computer vs. human (until larger scale PvE content, then it's all wishful thinking and luck). But when it is human vs. human, they don't balance well at all. The relationship of it is like rock-paper-scissors-nuke-howitzer-cthulhu. I've said it before in another thread, but the worst affect of this present situation is not the tears of the frustrated. Who cares. I don't. I'm not complaining about losing---after all I don't always lose---I'm complaining about the lack of variety and the lack of room for experimentation.

Guardian Fighters are almost sure to go Conqueror feat tree if they're going to pvp. They're almost certain to take Anvil, Bull Rush, etc. This is unfortunate. Again, I don't think classes need to be nerfed. There needs to be better countermeasures, more attractive skill options that offer a variety of benefits for a variety of situations. Classes in Neverwinter are simple arithmetic: linear, dull, short syntax of operations. What if instead of there being 3 holy-amazing skills/spells that are the only sensible choice if you're going to pvp, there were 20 holy-amazing skills/spells that are options if you're going to pvp? If there were enough options for all the classes, where the decision is not so opaque and typical, then it'd immediately rectify the linear outcomes of pvp by providing a deeper pool of possibility as to what you may or may not encounter,

So again, I don't think nerfing is the answer for any class (except for TR's, sorry folks, I stand by that statement that they're **** based on their present design). Instead, I'd say glorify the options. Improve the lackluster selection of skills/feats. Make it so that you can never be too sure what will come next. And yes, that will introduce a whole new level of complaining. Because the heavily invested player in one particular style of play may not be able to handle someone who came up with a different style of play: and they will say that that design is broken. But if done right, that argument would hold no credibility if there were so many ways to deal with the "broken" option.

There shouldn't be a one-size-fits-all approach for any class. And that's what it is right now. Pick those sacred feats and skills in certain classes and that size will fit for anything you come up against. How dull. How terribly dull.

flehstiffer

Did you just copy this post from the GF pvp thread? Likely this one will also turn into the same "nerf GF, nerf GWF, and nerf everything else too" thread.

That said, as much as you rag on TR's, they are one of the few (I'd argue the only) classes that actually have the versatility of being able to play in any feat tree. The build you talk about exclusively is the MI/sabotuer, which is the only one that has been really popularized.

I agree with you however, every class should have multiple builds which are on par, but none which make the rest not worthwhile. It would make most every class far more interesting.

Unknown

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hadestemplar

I don't think we will have balance here in game..