Is There A Dmg (Bug / Glitch / ????) With GWF?

instynctive

cortrillion#9371 said:

Hey Zacazu, maybe just ignore the lables you put on a class and tell us what everyone dos in a group. As I see it;



Paladin: renders the party invun so they can tank anything.



DC: builds action points for paladin.



GWF: kills everything.



everyone Else.... "fill in blank"

Paladin/GF: Draws aggro and takes the hits so the squishier classes don't have to. Besides, if my GWF is busy dodging attacks, he isn't doing his job: damage.
DC: Buff/Debuff/Heal. And I like Action Points too.
GWF: Big damage, and.. ummm.. Yeah. I got nothing.
CW: Crowd control/damage. There is nothing that makes my GWF happier than a CW who can drop some ice and swoop all the baddies into a nice tight bunch.
HR: More CC/damage. Swooping enemies together, rooting them. Thinning out the adds from afar, or close in. Good assortment of artillery options for bosses. I treasure a skilled HR in my group (please note that I said "skilled", and not overgeared BiS).
SW: While maybe not as big damage as a GWF, does great at thinning adds and trashmobs. Good artillery to have, too.
TR: Quick enough to run around, thinning adds, or continuously strafing bosses.

So.. these are the class job descriptions. I'm amazed that so many people haven't figured this out yet.

balorin

GWF PVE damages are out of the line since the begining of module 6.

There were no serious balance patch since the launch of the module 6.

I play a long time with end geared GWF using active pet or just ioun, all of them can out dps other classes without efforts except some SW.

The main problem is the absud total of damage they can do with their at will, especialy the aoe one, but there are also the large gap of stats with the other class due to the all the bonus stats they have with power<-----defense.

At the same level and same gear a GWF have a lot of more stats than any other class.
Something need to be fixed.

xgrandz02

what's the point of comparing ur dmg to other players?
Seriously who cares it's PvE!, if someone do more dmg than me on skirmish or dungeons it doesn't matter,
I played along time Sentinel-GWF which has the lowest dmg "of all time" and i never cared about if other players over dmged me,
But saying: "someone do more dmg, it must be a glitch/bug etc", löl just ridiculous.

thefabricant

Bear in mind I don't play GWF, I am only chiming in here because I am fairly certain some of the complainers here also don't play GWF so its more then fair that I respond to them. I main CW and for a while I mained paladin, do I care if good GWF's do more damage then me? Not really, its PVE, I am not in competition with them, I am working with them. GWF's are happy when they see chaotic nexus etc floating around the screen improving their stats and they happy when monsters don't move, I am fine with that. For several mods my class did the most damage in PVE and honestly, does it really matter which class does the most damage? No. Experienced players run with groups that have divers party compositions anyhow, to speed run a dungeon properly for instance, you need buffs like into the frey and steal time on tab, neither of which are provided by a GWF. One class doing more damage then the other dps does not make the other dps classes obsolete, rather, it makes the other functions those other classes can provide all the more relevant.

With that being said though, it would be nice for there to be content in the game that played more into the domains of those other roles...sort of like on release mod 0 epic dread vault, which played into the domain of the cleric and CW where they pushed monsters off cliffs etc. If the content was more diverse, I think you would see less complaints like these about damage because players wouldn't be in the "dps is all that matters" mindset.

At the end of the day, until you see "LF4M GWF's" in lfg there really isn't a problem.

rayrdan

you dont see lf4m gwfs because there isnt really a reason to run the content, 3k ads here 3k ads there but you arent really farming. you do a couple of runs, take your fixed income and turn the game off.
5 minutes more five minutes less arent a problem.
this doesnt mean gwf damage is allowed to be so ridicolously high.

kurtb88

The reason you don't see lf4m gwfs is because people enter the queue for a new skirmish like dwarven god's or whatever, and as soon as the skirm starts they inspect the party, and when they see no GWF's they leave.

urabask

kurtb88 said:

The reason you don't see lf4m gwfs is because people enter the queue for a new skirmish like dwarven god's or whatever, and as soon as the skirm starts they inspect the party, and when they see no GWF's they leave.

In Throne they're probably looking through the gate to see if they got the phase where you can actually get gold.

azlandr

kurtb88 said:

The reason you don't see lf4m gwfs is because people enter the queue for a new skirmish like dwarven god's or whatever, and as soon as the skirm starts they inspect the party, and when they see no GWF's they leave.

There is no content in this game requiring a GWF. There is no content in this game where people won't do it without a GWF. I remember mod 5 well enough. Control Wizards were preferred, nobody really wanted a GWF of anything. I see nobody excluding other classes from groups on the basis of their class anymore. That is a very good thing. I do not see anybody wanting a tank, a dc and 3 gwf's let alone nothing but GWFs. We might be doing too much dps, but we certainly aren't doing enough of it for other classes to be pariahs and unwanted in groups. GWFs arent even top dogs in PVP. We are very good in PVE but not at the expense of others. I see no class being excluded from groups due to GWF superiority. While some balancing may need to be done, we do not need to see any knee jerk reactions by the devs with any massive nerfs. If you think that, you don't want balance, you just want the lopsided balance we had in mod5 days when CWs ruled, and the rest of us had no place. Epeens feeling bruised don't matter. Even if balance were done, GWFs and SWs would still kick you CWs in the crotch when it comes to dps.

thefabricant

azlandr said:

kurtb88 said:

The reason you don't see lf4m gwfs is because people enter the queue for a new skirmish like dwarven god's or whatever, and as soon as the skirm starts they inspect the party, and when they see no GWF's they leave.

There is no content in this game requiring a GWF. There is no content in this game where people won't do it without a GWF. I remember mod 5 well enough. Control Wizards were preferred, nobody really wanted a GWF of anything. I see nobody excluding other classes from groups on the basis of their class anymore. That is a very good thing. I do not see anybody wanting a tank, a dc and 3 gwf's let alone nothing but GWFs. We might be doing too much dps, but we certainly aren't doing enough of it for other classes to be pariahs and unwanted in groups. GWFs arent even top dogs in PVP. We are very good in PVE but not at the expense of others. I see no class being excluded from groups due to GWF superiority. While some balancing may need to be done, we do not need to see any knee jerk reactions by the devs with any massive nerfs. If you think that, you don't want balance, you just want the lopsided balance we had in mod5 days when CWs ruled, and the rest of us had no place. Epeens feeling bruised don't matter. Even if balance were done, GWFs and SWs would still kick you CWs in the crotch when it comes to dps.

Hey, don't talk about kicking me in the crotch, I came to your defense further up and it hurts

mamalion1234

WHo did the most damage only combat log shows it ( THE REAL NUMBERS).

plasticbat

mamalion1234 said:

WHo did the most damage only combat log shows it ( THE REAL NUMBERS).

The thread is 3 months old.

spiritualxbl

azlandr said:

kurtb88 said:

The reason you don't see lf4m gwfs is because people enter the queue for a new skirmish like dwarven god's or whatever, and as soon as the skirm starts they inspect the party, and when they see no GWF's they leave.

There is no content in this game requiring a GWF. There is no content in this game where people won't do it without a GWF. I remember mod 5 well enough. Control Wizards were preferred, nobody really wanted a GWF of anything. I see nobody excluding other classes from groups on the basis of their class anymore. That is a very good thing. I do not see anybody wanting a tank, a dc and 3 gwf's let alone nothing but GWFs. We might be doing too much dps, but we certainly aren't doing enough of it for other classes to be pariahs and unwanted in groups. GWFs arent even top dogs in PVP. We are very good in PVE but not at the expense of others. I see no class being excluded from groups due to GWF superiority. While some balancing may need to be done, we do not need to see any knee jerk reactions by the devs with any massive nerfs. If you think that, you don't want balance, you just want the lopsided balance we had in mod5 days when CWs ruled, and the rest of us had no place. Epeens feeling bruised don't matter. Even if balance were done, GWFs and SWs would still kick you CWs in the crotch when it comes to dps.

Since this thread was bumped up, I'll retort that. I've actually done the math on all the possible GWF and SW builds and there's a simple solution for class balancing. It's what started the whole fiasco in the first place. All they need to do is make the eLoL set only proc off of encounters and/or make it do non-crit weapon damage. Problem solved. The second one would be in-line with the SpellStorm nerf at the beginning of Mod 6, but that may be a tad extreme. If they only made it proc off of encounters, it would balance GWFs and SWs out with the other DPS classes. Even Lia and Fernu's builds. That would keep the eLoL set as viable, but also make the other sets viable, as well. If they don't nerf the eLoL set at 70, I almost guarantee they will when they raise the cap to 80, if not exclude the set entirely. The eLoL set would almost exclusively only balance out the GWF and SW.

I enjoyed my time getting Paingiver up to Mod 6 on my CW and actually wasn't one of the ones complaining when it happened. I guarantee if your class got a 40% DPS nerf AND an ICD, you wouldn't be saying half the stuff you're saying now.

And as to what some of the above people were saying, 90% of the balance in this game is going to come from ending these speed run marathons and making the content challenging again. Regardless of how you felt before Mod 6, the game was balanced. GWF/TR/SW did more damage on smaller dungeons and skirmishes, CWs and HRs did more on the bigger dungeons like CN. GFs tanked and DCs healed. Regardless of how you felt, there was great balance in the game up to that point. I knew if I ran eLoL on my CW, I wasn't getting Paingiver and that if I ran CN, I was.

In summary, if you want balance;

-eLoL set has to be massively adjusted or gotten rid of.

-Dungeons must be made harder.

-Perma bubble has to go (PVE and PVP)

-Haste needs a re-balancing. The fact that you can just Daily your way through a dungeon is ridiculous.

-They actually need to fix the bugs they're aware of. (MF, SP being ridiculously over-buffed, etc.)

-Compensate for the fact that CWs and HRs can't control most non-trash mobs.

-Re-balance PVP. There are so many broken/ridiculous things I could name off, but it would double the size of this reply.

Also, I have no problem with the damage GWFs do. What I DO have a problem with is their survivability on top of their DPS. Take the SH Dragons for example. Because a GWF can spam Determination so much, they literally almost never die. In comparison, I see literally every other non-tank class die and have to run back to the dragons. I've played over 20 MMOs and this is the only one where a melee class has had top DPS AND survivability among DPS classes. Usually with that kind of survivablity, those classes were a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none class. In the case of the GWF, they get their cake and get to eat it, too.

I could go on about how Wizards and Rogues in literally every other game are top damage dealers (for casters and melee), but you probably already knew that.

/rant

ravenkkin

Regardless of how you felt before Mod 6, the game was balanced. GWF/TR/SW did more damage on smaller dungeons and skirmishes, CWs and HRs did more on the bigger dungeons like CN. GFs tanked and DCs healed. Regardless of how you felt, there was great balance in the game up to that point.

I stoped reading there.
yeah it was balanced if you were a cw.