hey @thefabricant! I started thinking; Since I'm still trying to pad my stats on my OP, what if, for the sake of dungeon success, we used rampaging madness, circle of power, and aura gifts to boost everyone's power? Would it be wise to go that route if my arpen isn't quite there yet (only -25% so far). Just theorycrafting!
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited December 2015
Updated active companion for bonding runestones, I have finished my testing and lightfoot thief wins hands down. Second place goes to shadow demon and for the purposes of an active bonus that boosts your companion, you want a yeti.
So what weapon enchantmets whould I use now? Please, help meh!
I would recommend feytouched or terror.
Thank you for answering. I wonder if Prism heal isn't activated from HOT, how is it gonna work? As far as I understood, if I want good healing build I should go with Justice fork 2? I am full light now, and I'm not happy with my heals. Should I invest some points at Force of will for more crit? Is it a good idea?
Quick question - I have been experimenting with my protection build, and recently specced out of prism. I sacrifice some personal damage, but it makes life better when playing with another pally and gives me more options while doing WoD dragon runs.
Does it make sense to keep burning guidance without prism? I do see it proc, but not as often as with prism.
Edit: should add - I am on Xbox, so no prism nerf yet. Also, is there more detail on the performance of the lightfoot thief? I quickly went through the guide but didn't see a companion section.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Quick question - I have been experimenting with my protection build, and recently specced out of prism. I sacrifice some personal damage, but it makes life better when playing with another pally and gives me more options while doing WoD dragon runs.
Does it make sense to keep burning guidance without prism? I do see it proc, but not as often as with prism.
Edit: should add - I am on Xbox, so no prism nerf yet. Also, is there more detail on the performance of the lightfoot thief? I quickly went through the guide but didn't see a companion section.
Sorry, fixed, the companion section was missing its numbering which makes it hard to see, its section 2.4 now and you should now be able to find it, it was there, just hidden. If you spec out of prism, you could probably spec out of burning guidance as well, although none of the other boons are particularly amazing, I would go for augmented thayan bastion of you do though.
Any chance of an update? Its terribly outdated, now, with the fix to the whole Prism Build concept
Its not actually, you still heal more then enough so going justice and taking prism is still better then going light or bulwark for both devotion and protection. The concept is still correct, the only major change is with regards to 1 heroic feat choice and the gear you wear. With the prism nerf, you now do almost no damage and to make up for that, you would have to heavily stack crit and use the lostmauth set. The downside of this is that you cannot effectively use aura gifts because you have given up power for additional crit chance.
Updated active companion for bonding runestones, I have finished my testing and lightfoot thief wins hands down. Second place goes to shadow demon and for the purposes of an active bonus that boosts your companion, you want a yeti.
Where do you get those companions? I don't see them in the Zen store.
Thanks.
NVM I looked it up and found it. Either get it from doing T6 Sword Coast Adventures or over 900k in AH.
lightfoot thief is a stupidly rare drop (and why they're almost 1M AD on the AH) from finishing T6 dungeons in sword coast adventures on the neverwinter gateway
the yeti is available at icewind dale in the tavern, but you need to feed it a yeti treat that drops rarely from a daily mission also available in that tavern before you can get it
the shadow demon, i have absolutely no idea where you get that one
Updated active companion for bonding runestones, I have finished my testing and lightfoot thief wins hands down. Second place goes to shadow demon and for the purposes of an active bonus that boosts your companion, you want a yeti.
Where do you get those companions? I don't see them in the Zen store.
Thanks.
NVM I looked it up and found it. Either get it from doing T6 Sword Coast Adventures or over 900k in AH.
Yes, I am available in game to chat and like you, a large number of my characters are named after characters from the wheel of time
First of all I would like to thank you for this great guide, I found it very useful while leveling my paladin.
I however have a few remarks and questions.
- Vow of Enmity
I've just reported a bug regarding this power. The damage buff doesnt seem to be affected by the number of power points you put in it but is instead increased by the power points you put in the encounter "Divine Touch"
Because of this, and until the bug is fixed, putting 3 points in Divine Touch would be highly recommanded for any devotion paladin.
- Burning Light
I believe your description of this power could use some clarification.
This skill only does good damage when used together with aura of courage and fully charged. It doesn't apply a DoT to enemies but deals a very small amount of damage every half second for the duration (4s while fully charged). This damage however triggers the damage from aura of courage and dazes (not exactly the same as a stun) enemies for a very short duration each time. This daze can effectively prevent all mobs from using any skill involving a charge time.
This can be extremely effective once you reach level 60 and have a lot of health but is very weak before that.
The charge time is pretty long and requires good timing to prevent being interrupted repeatedly.
- Circle of Power
I don't understand. Do you mean that this skill increases power instead of damage, as stated in the tool-tip?
Unless it is bugged it doesn't affect the rest of the team in any way and doesn't have anything to do with aura gifts.
@thefabricant hey man, really enjoying this class thank you for this guide.
Couple of quick questions, I know you said that determining the value of the heals from vow of enmity is impossible, but do you know if power and +out going heals increases that value? Same for bond of virtue?
After the burning guidance adjustment is it still the boon to take? And is prism still worth taking after its adjustments as well?
Thanks for all you've done, really appreciated.
Edit: oh oh oh, almost forgot. Do devo paladins need to stack armor pen up to 40/60%?
Post edited by zachwho on
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
@thefabricant hey man, really enjoying this class thank you for this guide.
Couple of quick questions, I know you said that determining the value of the heals from vow of enmity is impossible, but do you know if power and +out going heals increases that value?
Same for bond of virtue?
After the burning guidance adjustment is it still the boon to take? And is prism still worth taking after its adjustments as well?
Thanks for all you've done, really appreciated.
Edit: oh oh oh, almost forgot. Do devo paladins need to stack armor pen up to 40/60%?
1) Yes, power+outgoing heals does scale the healing of both of those. 2) Burning guidance is still the boon to take for devotion, its significantly less powerful, but stronger then the alternatives. 3) You do need to stack resistance ignored up to 60% ideally as devotion paladin.
Finally, I have made 1 last adjustment to this build with regards to protection. Until further notice, I will no longer be updating this build however I will answer questions relating to it, but @jaegernl would be the person ideally to ask. This is because pve has reached the point where it is so easy, that playing my paladin actually makes the game boring and so I have switched back to my wizard. Sorry about this to anyone following my build, but to continue playing paladin at this point may cause me to quit
@thefabricant question about summoned companions, have you compared the mercenary with the lightfoot thief and the shadow demon? I have heard that the merc gets 3 procs of companion's gift almost instantly.
@thefabricant question about summoned companions, have you compared the mercenary with the lightfoot thief and the shadow demon? I have heard that the merc gets 3 procs of companion's gift almost instantly.
merc = lightfoot. Same companion, different names. Only other difference is the lightfoot has 2 offense slots and 1 defense slot where as the merc has 3 offense slots and the lighfoot has a different active bonuses, but other then that, appearance and all, they are the same.
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited February 2016
Due to someone asking me why Justice over light or bulwark, I have added Point 2.7 which explains this, if you are interested, you can refer to point 2.7 for an in depth explanation. Also, I would like to add that for the purposes of improving both your parties damage and your own damage, you will want the owlbear cub and you will also want to not stack crit, in fact, do the exact opposite and stack power through the roof whilst maintaining the lowest crit possible.
You're wrong about Shielding Strike. That shield is VERY significant in T2 dungeons, once you have three stacks.
You're also wrong about Bane. It gives a 30% damage debuff that your WHOLE PARTY can take advantage of. Absolutely essential on bosses and dragonflight.
And you're wrong about Relentless Avenger. That knockback makes it absolutely infuriating for any party that relies on any sort of AOE, which is every party that knows what it's doing.
@holeypaladin With regards to shielding strike: Do you really need the shield? You can easily stack 80% dr in mod 8 and with current levels of survivability, would you not rather gain the benefits of say valorous strike>
With regards to Bane: Lets take a 2k prot paladin as an example here, he probably cannot keep up a bubble if he does not have another ability for AP gain. Bane is not that other ability for AP gain, but other abilities are. It is not as essential for devotion, true, but for protection, up till like 3k ilvl +snail +other AP gain stuff, you probably can't keep bubble up personally without a snail dc, whilst using bane and would you rather have a bubbled group, or would you rather have the extra damage.
With regards to RA: There is no way your 1.6k ilvl prot paladin can keep up a bubble without it. You might dislike it at end game and true, once you got enough AP gain to sustain your dailies without it, you should definitely drop it, but guess what, I would rather have random paladins with poor gear reading this guide and seeing that relentless avenger is good for them if they can't sustain their bubble, then using it, then having them not sustaining their bubble at all. Your dps = 0 while you dead and yes, whilst a proper group can get away without perma bubble (I tanked 3 man eGWD on my dev pally) not everyone can rely on running with good players, some people pug (as sad as it is) and those people need every darn tool they can get.
YOU suprise me ( is not trolling is wondering). how you advice poeple to spam divine protector. I mean you and other players willing to give advice to new players about basic mechanics( dodge block avoid red ) and then you say need to sustain bubble for what purpose? The last time i gone pug queue and i saw the weak paladin spaming divine protector dieing in it and then left the pt. SO my teamates need divine protector so i can carry them because they cant dodge -avoid red areas? They can make their pt or and kick me i dont mind. EVeryone should work in pt for a sucesfull run not one class carry everyone. AND there are players asking for advice when you pug those are nice poeple try to work out what need to do.Those are a category you didnt mentioned: inexpierenced.
You're wrong about Shielding Strike. That shield is VERY significant in T2 dungeons, once you have three stacks.
You're also wrong about Bane. It gives a 30% damage debuff that your WHOLE PARTY can take advantage of. Absolutely essential on bosses and dragonflight.
And you're wrong about Relentless Avenger. That knockback makes it absolutely infuriating for any party that relies on any sort of AOE, which is every party that knows what it's doing.
@holeypaladin With regards to shielding strike: Do you really need the shield? You can easily stack 80% dr in mod 8 and with current levels of survivability, would you not rather gain the benefits of say valorous strike>
With regards to Bane: Lets take a 2k prot paladin as an example here, he probably cannot keep up a bubble if he does not have another ability for AP gain. Bane is not that other ability for AP gain, but other abilities are. It is not as essential for devotion, true, but for protection, up till like 3k ilvl +snail +other AP gain stuff, you probably can't keep bubble up personally without a snail dc, whilst using bane and would you rather have a bubbled group, or would you rather have the extra damage.
With regards to RA: There is no way your 1.6k ilvl prot paladin can keep up a bubble without it. You might dislike it at end game and true, once you got enough AP gain to sustain your dailies without it, you should definitely drop it, but guess what, I would rather have random paladins with poor gear reading this guide and seeing that relentless avenger is good for them if they can't sustain their bubble, then using it, then having them not sustaining their bubble at all. Your dps = 0 while you dead and yes, whilst a proper group can get away without perma bubble (I tanked 3 man eGWD on my dev pally) not everyone can rely on running with good players, some people pug (as sad as it is) and those people need every darn tool they can get.
YOU suprise me ( is not trolling is wondering). how you advice poeple to spam divine protector. I mean you and other players willing to give advice to new players about basic mechanics( dodge block avoid red ) and then you say need to sustain bubble for what purpose? The last time i gone pug queue and i saw the weak paladin spaming divine protector dieing in it and then left the pt. SO my teamates need divine protector so i can carry them because they cant dodge -avoid red areas? They can make their pt or and kick me i dont mind. EVeryone should work in pt for a sucesfull run not one class carry everyone. AND there are players asking for advice when you pug those are nice poeple try to work out what need to do.Those are a category you didnt mentioned: inexpierenced.
True, there are some random players who are willing to learn, but 90% of the time when you random queue into a dungeon you end up with people who, if you try to explain stuff to them, will just leave the dungeon because they would rather leave and not learn then admit they were wrong and could do better. Whilst it would be better for the state of the game if people did learn to dodge, as the tank in the group I would rather baby sit random players and finish the dungeon as quickly as possible then try to teach them and hope that they are willing to learn.
I believe in pragmatism, people should dodge and avoid red, but if they don't and I can mitigate their mistakes then I will do so. I would rather spend as little time as possible with people who don't know what they doing and then move on to a group that does know what they doing, then spend a long time with players who don't know what they doing.
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
Great guide, thank you for the effort. I agree with near everything you say here. My only input from my experience is that crit helps a lot with templar's wrath temp hp generation (from a perspective of having lots of base HP). I am not saying stacking crit only, just not ignoring it and balance with power (brutals, etc) and get around 50% crit chance. The Weapon Mastery feat and Force of Will are very good in this aspect (this is why I pick human). Crits can proc other things also (I dont use lostmauth).
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GUILD: ~Myrmidons~
Would Love to party up with people for pretty much anything!
Does it make sense to keep burning guidance without prism? I do see it proc, but not as often as with prism.
Edit: should add - I am on Xbox, so no prism nerf yet. Also, is there more detail on the performance of the lightfoot thief? I quickly went through the guide but didn't see a companion section.
I was wondering about the Dragonflight (Stronghold) gear. Do you think it is the best choice for gear since the Base level is 140?
What is your toughts on that?
Thanks
Thank you.
Thanks.
NVM I looked it up and found it. Either get it from doing T6 Sword Coast Adventures or over 900k in AH.
the yeti is available at icewind dale in the tavern, but you need to feed it a yeti treat that drops rarely from a daily mission also available in that tavern before you can get it
the shadow demon, i have absolutely no idea where you get that one
I however have a few remarks and questions.
- Vow of Enmity
I've just reported a bug regarding this power. The damage buff doesnt seem to be affected by the number of power points you put in it but is instead increased by the power points you put in the encounter "Divine Touch"
Because of this, and until the bug is fixed, putting 3 points in Divine Touch would be highly recommanded for any devotion paladin.
- Burning Light
I believe your description of this power could use some clarification.
This skill only does good damage when used together with aura of courage and fully charged. It doesn't apply a DoT to enemies but deals a very small amount of damage every half second for the duration (4s while fully charged). This damage however triggers the damage from aura of courage and dazes (not exactly the same as a stun) enemies for a very short duration each time. This daze can effectively prevent all mobs from using any skill involving a charge time.
This can be extremely effective once you reach level 60 and have a lot of health but is very weak before that.
The charge time is pretty long and requires good timing to prevent being interrupted repeatedly.
- Circle of Power
I don't understand. Do you mean that this skill increases power instead of damage, as stated in the tool-tip?
Unless it is bugged it doesn't affect the rest of the team in any way and doesn't have anything to do with aura gifts.
Couple of quick questions, I know you said that determining the value of the heals from vow of enmity is impossible, but do you know if power and +out going heals increases that value?
Same for bond of virtue?
After the burning guidance adjustment is it still the boon to take? And is prism still worth taking after its adjustments as well?
Thanks for all you've done, really appreciated.
Edit: oh oh oh, almost forgot. Do devo paladins need to stack armor pen up to 40/60%?
2) Burning guidance is still the boon to take for devotion, its significantly less powerful, but stronger then the alternatives.
3) You do need to stack resistance ignored up to 60% ideally as devotion paladin.
Finally, I have made 1 last adjustment to this build with regards to protection. Until further notice, I will no longer be updating this build however I will answer questions relating to it, but @jaegernl would be the person ideally to ask. This is because pve has reached the point where it is so easy, that playing my paladin actually makes the game boring and so I have switched back to my wizard. Sorry about this to anyone following my build, but to continue playing paladin at this point may cause me to quit
The devo pally is my alt.
Again, thank you for your time and efforts, this is a great work you've done!
SoonerGM - HR Trapper
Haven - Righteous Cleric
Ethereal Justice - OP Paladin
SoonerGM - HR Trapper
Haven - Righteous Cleric
Ethereal Justice - OP Paladin
YOU suprise me ( is not trolling is wondering). how you advice poeple to spam divine protector. I mean you and other players willing to give advice to new players about basic mechanics( dodge block avoid red ) and then you say need to sustain bubble for what purpose? The last time i gone pug queue and i saw the weak paladin spaming divine protector dieing in it and then left the pt. SO my teamates need divine protector so i can carry them because they cant dodge -avoid red areas? They can make their pt or and kick me i dont mind. EVeryone should work in pt for a sucesfull run not one class carry everyone.
AND there are players asking for advice when you pug those are nice poeple try to work out what need to do.Those are a category you didnt mentioned: inexpierenced.
I believe in pragmatism, people should dodge and avoid red, but if they don't and I can mitigate their mistakes then I will do so. I would rather spend as little time as possible with people who don't know what they doing and then move on to a group that does know what they doing, then spend a long time with players who don't know what they doing.
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