Agree to disagree: to run or not to run

shadrakt2

Let me start by saying that I hate running through dungeons. Aside from the fact that I don't think it's really that much faster and it usually means leaving the weaker characters behind to die, run-through dungeons are just not my idea of fun. But that's just me.

Can we start a convention that, if you wanna run through a dungeon, you send a quick party message saying just "run"? That way, if I don't want to, I can leave the party at the beginning and try another one, and your party will get a replacement, hopefully someone who will agree to run.

Can we all start doing that?

kemi1984

Well that's one way to do it

juleadream

Agreed. I absolutely hate speed-runs. I can't stand taking short cuts (such as all those ones in ToS, I'd love it if the devs blocked those off) and I hate skipping fights. Not my idea of fun in the least.

grogthemagnif

I don't like 'speed runs' either and I'm in a Guild which will slow down, pick up all the treasure and open all the skill spots require that if you open something you take everything before moving on.

juleadream said:

Agreed. I absolutely hate speed-runs. I can't stand taking short cuts (such as all those ones in ToS, I'd love it if the devs blocked those off) and I hate skipping fights. Not my idea of fun in the least.

As to short cuts, I'll use them if I find them.

silverkelt

Ok well then the opposite is true, its best to be flexible.

I dont really enjoy people who pick up greens and waste others time opening up chests and junk. But I don't complain about it either during runs.

If a group can pull all , kill all , then I do it, if they dont want to, then I dont..

There is no correct way of doing it.

thefabricant

I can enjoy both a slow or a fast run, so long as the run is smooth (minimal deaths). If I am in an uber party, I like to rush the dungeons and see how fast we can smoothly complete them. This is when I will generally see if I can get the party to go door to door and then time the runs, as there is an element of enjoyment in trying to get something nailed down to perfection. If I am not in an uber party, you can also have fun going slow, you derive a different type of enjoyment from both playstyles, but the thing is, I can definitely agree that if that way of playing doesn't agree with someone, you should try to accommodate them. In mod 5, I did both the uber speed CN runs (14 mins long) and the really slow, go down every corridor, clear every secret, complete every puzzle run. Both were fun and I don't believe either mentality is in the right or wrong, they should both try to accommodate the other.

kreatyve

Geeze, I really miss the "full clear" runs of Castle Never, where we go through every part and slay every single monster. I generally don't like skipping things either. It seems like everyone skips 2 encounters in eToS, and it used to drive me crazy, but now I just deal with it. But still, the devs put those encounters there for us to fight. It's not like WoW where they throw in a bunch of trash that you are supposed to skip. I'd rather kill everything and loot everything (mimic eats a lot, greens are a nice snack for it), than to skip half the stuff or leave behind a bunch of mimic food.

kemnimtarkas

silverkelt said:

Ok well then the opposite is true, its best to be flexible.

I dont really enjoy people who pick up greens and waste others time opening up chests and junk. But I don't complain about it either during runs.

If a group can pull all , kill all , then I do it, if they dont want to, then I dont..

There is no correct way of doing it.

I agree. Not all PUGs can handle the mobs, especially at Epic T2. And who really cares about green drops at level 70? All that's worth is gold, the most abundant and least desireable currency in the game.

The point for me is the seals at the end, and the Protector level gear. Everything else is just a distraction. And very few PUGs can handle the bosses without exploiting glitches anyway (looking at you eCC).

pando83

I love it.
It gives you that feeling of "who slips behind, dies".
Adds some thrilling, a feeling of impending danger. As if a horde of zombies is swallowing everything behind your group, and you run ahead while someone screams "GET TO THE CHOPPAAAAAA".

Plus i love watching poor weaklings being left behind and screming in pain as they die, swallowed by a sea of monsters and hentay-style tentacle HAMSTER on all these half-naked female toons...

Yeah...i must...i must go now...things to do...

asterotg

It depends on the dungeons and the group you are running with. While you cant expect a PuG group to be able to do a speedrun in T2 dungeons, you cant expect a decent geared player, running TOS for RAD, to babysit, when he can clear the whole dungeon alone.

I used to group up for Briggins, DS etc, not bc I cant clear it solo, but bc others cant. The complains of ppl who seem to be illiterated, made me run solo. I assume, that they dont understand english very well, due to the fact, that I told them to wait, while I pull the instance, they followed me, they died, they complained.

If you run with a high geared group, try to keep up (so you dont die) or leave, if you dont like their playstyle. For T2 dungeons ppl running door to door dont do it solo, but are semipremade in 99% of the runs. They can clear it on their own and lacked one or two players, to complete the group.

In rare cases, there are players pulling large groups, not able to handle then, causing whipe after whipe and complaining about it. These groups I allways leave.

shadrakt2

asterotg said:

If you run with a high geared group, try to keep up (so you dont die) or leave, if you dont like their playstyle.

And this is precisely my point, asterotg: it's not about being able to clear a dungeon solo, or being able to keep up or not: it's about communication. Just type in a word to let the rest of the party know what style you prefer. I don't want to find out 1/3 of the way into the dungeon that one guy is trying to speed-run it, the other is trying to keep up, and I'm way behind with my alt trying to survive a group of 12 MOBs.

We all have our preferences, and they're all fine. But we should be able to find a way to respect each other's style.

shadrakt2

And one more thing: if you choose to leave the slower characters behind to die, please at least have the decency to not choose "Need" on items they pick up and you ran past. That's just common courtesy IMO.

silverkelt

kreatyve said:

Geeze, I really miss the "full clear" runs of Castle Never, where we go through every part and slay every single monster. I generally don't like skipping things either. It seems like everyone skips 2 encounters in eToS, and it used to drive me crazy, but now I just deal with it. But still, the devs put those encounters there for us to fight. It's not like WoW where they throw in a bunch of trash that you are supposed to skip. I'd rather kill everything and loot everything (mimic eats a lot, greens are a nice snack for it), than to skip half the stuff or leave behind a bunch of mimic food.

greens are near worthless though, even back to the coffer, not really worth the wasted time.. I would understand if they were not. two etos runs will net you a thousand times more salvage points.. then picking up all of those greens for weeks ... or maybe even months.

I have no issue killing everything, I dont think that was really the discussion, it was more of , why are poeple pulling everyting up to the door.. well because its possible to do and saves time.

Its not like we havent all run this a million times before and there are super secret areas with cool things that help you to progress the game.. there isnt..

Im literally, I dont know up to my 2000 or so elol run. Ive done etos.. 1k times at least, then vt around 2-300 times mc a few dozen (until recently I couldn't even play it, had to get a high end card to do so) and then the other dds just a handful of times. Just for fun really, as they are too long to be efficient in playing every day compared to the others. But its nice to have breaks and do them.

SINCE mod 6..

I have no interest exploring corners on something Ive run thousands of times. The time to explore something new is in the few few weeks of a mod, you eventually get it all down and the only challenge left is to see if you can clear all.

Again, when Im in a run and someone , "just" has to get all of the green gear and junk, I dont say a word, I just hit pass and keep going. But if we want to clear all, I would expect the same respect back.. no huffiness please.

akanaro

I'm with silverkelt on this one. I only returned to the game today after more than a year absence but dungeon running was a thing back then and it will remain a thing until they either randomize dungeons or make it more interesting somehow. You'll start off doing a dungeon slow because you're not familiar with the boss fights or the shortcuts and it's still pretty new. After you've done it multiple times you're not doing it for the scenery anymore. Chances are you're only there to either get a specific boss drop or to earn AD from boss drops. You really just want to get it over with and move on.

That being said it used to be that speed runs were properly listed as such in the LFG channel. Did that change? If so then people should just start doing that again. Being clear when you use the LFG channel will save you and the people joining your group a lot of time and bad vibes.

So anyway, the solution is simply for group leaders to specify a speed run and for group members to read before joining a group and if you're not sure then rather ask than waste everyone's time.

silverkelt

There is a difference to me between , speed runs and clear all runs.

People used to use speed runs as a excuse to exploit (run to fire.. die, then pop up. )

Im not for that.. its just basically we are to the point in power creep that any random average group(2.5k+ or so) can clear all up to the doors and live.. making it faster and easier.. allowing all aoes and buffs, debuffs to come into play.

akanaro

I agree. I never liked the whole exploit thing. I didn't mind the "run to the next campfire so we don't have to waste time on these mobs" kinds though.

asterotg

shadrakt2 said:

asterotg said:

If you run with a high geared group, try to keep up (so you dont die) or leave, if you dont like their playstyle.

And this is precisely my point, asterotg: it's not about being able to clear a dungeon solo, or being able to keep up or not: it's about communication. Just type in a word to let the rest of the party know what style you prefer. I don't want to find out 1/3 of the way into the dungeon that one guy is trying to speed-run it, the other is trying to keep up, and I'm way behind with my alt trying to survive a group of 12 MOBs.

We all have our preferences, and they're all fine. But we should be able to find a way to respect each other's style.

You are right, it would be nice, if ppl would at least say, what they want to do, but, with the exeption of premade runs, I have seen maybe a dozend ppl saying 'run' or 'slow down' in thousands of runs.

shadrakt2 said:

And one more thing: if you choose to leave the slower characters behind to die, please at least have the decency to not choose "Need" on items they pick up and you ran past. That's just common courtesy IMO.

If someone just runs from door to door, you would be right, but if I kill 90% of the adds on my way to the boss and ppl start picking up the drops of the mobs I killed, Why should I pass? In other MMOs, with larger groups, the weaker players used to collect the drops, while the stronger players cleared the way. I see this as a kind of synergy.

urabask

I don't mind it as long as someone actually says they're doing it. Had an OP try to do it on elol today without telling anyone and we find him dead halfway to the bridge. Then he RQs and ruins the run for everyone because the queue refuses to give us heals or a tank.

snotty

To be honest I don't really care either way, I go with the flow. Would I prefer speed runs? Of course I would, I've already been through the dungeons enough time to know all their lil nooks and crannies so looking for them again poses no interest for me and the fast I get done with this run the sooner I can run another.

The irony for me is its always the "wanna kill all" people that cry the most. As if skipping a few mobs is game breaking. Here's a thought, if we weren't meant to skip them (without using an exploit) then why were they placed where we can skip them? Do you really think the Devs just assumed everyone would go out of their way to fully clear every dungeon?

That being said, my real issues are the quitters and I don't just mean the rage quitters. Im talking about the idiots that will pull mobs or too many mobs, drag them to the team, get the team killed and then quit or worse, quit before they die leaving you and whoever is left to kill the mobs. Or the ones that stand there waiting until the team decides to try and 4man the next group of mobs while waiting for a new member and the leaves as soon as they engage the mobs.

Or the ones that quit so fast they obviously have quit just because they don't like the team make up. Because you know, according to them you cant finish a dungeon without a tank and DC. Or the ilv elitists who think that your ilv score = good player.

namelesshero347

This game is about running the same dungeon many, many times. Why not take the opportunity to run when the team is able to.

kemi1984

pando83 said:

I love it.
It gives you that feeling of "who slips behind, dies".
Adds some thrilling, a feeling of impending danger. As if a horde of zombies is swallowing everything behind your group, and you run ahead while someone screams "GET TO THE CHOPPAAAAAA".

Plus i love watching poor weaklings being left behind and screming in pain as they die, swallowed by a sea of monsters and hentay-style tentacle HAMSTER on all these half-naked female toons...

Yeah...i must...i must go now...things to do...

U sick man...lol !