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PVP - balance, is it possible?
ryoshinette
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 488 Arc User
I would ask community that is possible to see something like balance in pvp in Neverwinter.
PVP was, and imo still is, the worst part of this game. But only pvp gives a hope, that game will survive. Every new module = doing same quests for a years ! to get a gear 5% better. Aren't you bored?
So what we have:
1. D&D system. Maybe it's just not designed for pvp and say no more?
2. Devs who have no idea about pvp, and ignores fact of bad designed skills working nice on pve, but ruining pvp?
3. Players who are using/abusing broken skills just to prove that they are better (they are not, just have luck cause have chosen broken class 2 years ago).
Everyone, no matter what class he is playing, can point at least 10 iritating (not challenging) issues present in pvp. And tbh, I lost hope that it will be balanced at all.
Opinion please
PVP was, and imo still is, the worst part of this game. But only pvp gives a hope, that game will survive. Every new module = doing same quests for a years ! to get a gear 5% better. Aren't you bored?
So what we have:
1. D&D system. Maybe it's just not designed for pvp and say no more?
2. Devs who have no idea about pvp, and ignores fact of bad designed skills working nice on pve, but ruining pvp?
3. Players who are using/abusing broken skills just to prove that they are better (they are not, just have luck cause have chosen broken class 2 years ago).
Everyone, no matter what class he is playing, can point at least 10 iritating (not challenging) issues present in pvp. And tbh, I lost hope that it will be balanced at all.
Opinion please
Ryoshin GF (4.2k)
.Suicide Squad.
.Suicide Squad.
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Game has been out for over 2 years. People have been complaining about balance, separating queues, abuse of exploits etc for just about that whole time. They do minimal half-assed repairs, then call it a day.
My pattern recognition skills tell me there will most likely not be balance.
Now you can see how much effort is put into PW's #1 game. Do they value quality? IMO they don't.
a SW can be really competitive if it has a dodge mechanic instead, all the HR paragons can be fixed easily if you give to archery some control, combat some movement and recharge speed and trapper dodgeable roots. GWF gaining damage not from stacks and givin them powers that don't fail that much and have a little more range. OPs need a extra review overall.
But
Without splitting the queues for Premades and Stand alone it is not
Urlord
just think about 8k Lifesteal from SH boon at rank 10...
atm Premades can´t kill each other, 8k Lifesteal on top...lol
or 8k defence for a tank?
32k HP?
HP 15 % incoming healing bonus for OP
lol, chose one
However, it is possible to come within a relatively reasonable range of differences where one class might have certain quirks or problems against another, but the issue being still reasonably possible to remedy through variables such as skills or situations.
Particularly, it is possible to tweak individual classes to having roughly similar potential between different builds that emphasize different aspects, if not directly, at least indirectly.
...
This requires constant attention from the developers, and the drive to know what's going on on the scene and try to make the game better. One such example being League of Legends, in which case the developers themselves were PvP enthusiasts and decided to creat their own AOS-genre game dedicated to PvP. Hence, between seasons there are constant ups and downs, OP characters, spot-on fixes or sometimes mistakes in that game as well, but one thing the playerbase there knows, is that the developers take keen interest in the problems and try to tweak and fix the game constantly.
Separation of 'general, casual' PuG games and ranked games is also a large plus, and with more controlled "ranked game" environment where people seriously compete, it becomes easier for them to constantly research and mine "big-data" to see which are doing well and which not.
Of course, LoL is a game totally designed for exclusively PvP, and cannot compare to a full-scale MMOG like NW, but it does give an example what sort of measures and dedication it needs to try and make a good PvP system.
...
Unfortunately, seemingly, Cryptic has neither any interest, nor any knowledge in trying to make a better PvP to satisfy the customers that actually pay the most money for their work. Instead, their methods are probably world-class in installing all sorts of paygates and lures to milk coin from your wallet and exploit every ounce of opportunity to get more money out of you.
They also have a very great track record of making a game with excellent potential, and then destroying it with their own hands.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
.Suicide Squad.
pro PVP guild 8k SH Boon + 4k mount
average guild memeber that tends to join PVP and is thrown in this mess, none of this i guess
balancing means also to close the gap, its the opposite
In any game, any PvP, like it or not the 'average' players are the grand majority. And currently, NW gives you a choice to either subvert yourself to the insane amount of exploitation to become 'competent', or just remain true to the F2P model and just forget about the PvP part in this game.
Soon, the only ones left in the PvP scene will be the BiS guilds themselves, and no one else. Finally, balance. All the BiS whales can now have a lovely time always fighting against the same people again, and again, and again, and again, under exactly equal terms.
So in a sense, he's right. There's gonna be balance soon, since anyone who is left out of this krap of a exploitation scam called PvP, would probably choose to stay thar way. The only reason I'm not going away, is because there's no refund on this krap. So I intend to stay until my investment's run its course, and when it becomes physically impossible to keep up with the gear inflation, then I'm outta here.
They really do have a talent of destroying their own game with their own two hands.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
But like said, that only goes so far up to the boundaries of reason. Just where these boundaries are drawn at may be different for each and every person, but that doesn't mean the trend, the tendency of it may not be realized amongst the community as a whole.
We're at a point where we can comfortably say that a new, aspiring player has no real chance to ever compete at a satisfactory level regardless of where his true 'skill level' might be at, because the amount of monetary investments to be made into this game to be considered even the least bit competitive is downright punitive.
For the longest time, there was a rule in the MMOG world that cash-bought items were never associated with actual performance. It was merely cosmetics or novelties, extra costume options or stuff. People would not have minded a bit of performance tweak... but now, the amount of investments required is just jaw dropping.
- 3 artifact equipments to be upgraded by 4 tiers
- 4 artifacts to be upgraded by 5 tiers
- 12 normal enchantments to be upgraded by 12 ranks
- 2 special enchantments to be upgraded by 5 tiers
- 4 kits to be applied to four armour pieces
- 4 kits to be applied to four accessories
The price range can be anywhere between 100 ~ 200 dollars to be spent to upgrade ONE of the above to maximal BiS state, meaning that anyone needs to spend around 2,000 ~ 4,000 dollars to reach BiS.
Of course, one may argue one may simply farm stuff in game and manually feed it to everything without spending a dime on it, except everyone already knows that this is simply a "paygate" system as can be found in any mobile games that lures/forces a player into microtransactions. Impossibly slow rate of advancement, with the only alternative being opening up the wallet.
Suppose that it takes you around 3,000 dollars investment in total to reach BiS. Divide it by the standard subscription fee of most MMOGs that only takes a fixed amount of money from you every month to enjoy EVERY content of the game -- 15 bucks -- and that's 200 months worth of subscription = 16.6 years.
If anyone with BiS level equipment did not abuse the goddarn in-game bugs and economic exploits, and did not create huge load of AD-farming leadership accounts (which is impossible now, anyways), if someone actually honestly opened up their wallets and purchased things as the developers would have them do, in support of the game, they've already paid enough money to last more than 16 years in any other game, at which point most MMOGs won't probably last that long.
Yes, we know that the F2P business model inherently implies an uneven/unfair pricing scheme between players according to their level of interest/involvement into the game. In this business model anyone who sees more out of the game is beckoned to pay more money than one would if playing any other subscription model games. This is a given fact, and most people willing accepted that knowing that NW was F2P.
But this??? It's punitive. It's a crazy amount of money they expect out of you, for a content that's run dry, riddled with bugs and imbalances, largely ignored. Yes, it's not even state-of-the-art, nor satisfactory for the most part. The intervals between major updates are long, bugs are ignored and never fixed, and now even the discussions have run dry. When's the last time anyone heard an honest reply from a dev concerning PvP???
To do what??? To put in more content that doesn't even concern slightly, the people who actually pay that 16 year worth of money to them?? So they make a new cool PvE content that would lure in zillions of Drizzt fanbois? Are they gonna pay anything?? I don't hear them PvE guys opening their wallets up any time soon.
So to pay up for the costs required for more PvE content, more server space, more of everything offered to EVERYONE ELSE EXCEPT US PvPers, they gonna rely on our wallets again by yet increasing another tier, another increment of stuff to be either farmed for months/years, or be bought by money. Either that, or you never get a chance against any scrawny BiS group in the PvP scene.
Heck, why settle for this shat? Just quit, walk away, find some other better PvP game and then you get all you want. You get a better gaming experience with less money spent, and you leave the BiS whale-pigs who abused the system out the wazoo, to do nothing but get bored by fighting amongst themselves.
This isn't a F2P business model. It's an outright scam. They abused every single inch of trust us oldbies ever had with Cryptic. All the old fans that used to wholeheartedly support City of Heroes as their first magnificent attempt for a truly great MMOG... well, they're all gone. Stuck a knife to our backs, did they. So why should anyone really give a chit?
I believe my own character will probably go obsolete in terms of gear a few months after mod8, so that's when I'm outta this shathole.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I have to agree, that nowadays with this RP system everything seems pointless, and we have no method to earn decent ammount of AD.
But not the point.
Let's assume for a while, that we have BiS players only on server. And now - is it possible to balance? At least paper - scissors?
.Suicide Squad.
only thing you have to do now is balance the classes....but
too many ifs
The more I think about it the more I tend to say, its wasted
Only problem is, most ppl left ingame have a incredible high ammount of frustration tolerance, like me.
They just completely destroyed it, simple as that.
Instead of giving brackets to prevent player from being mixed with chars 4k+ who have the double HP deal 10 times more damage and on top are indestructable having cookie cutter builds wearing Fey+negation+axebeak+ all SH boons, they went on ignoring it .
I liked doing PVP in NWO, but hope already died , and thats a point of no return for most player.
Result is noone queues any more, most 4k chars are bored, even do no premades any more and 80% of population fadet away. Sad but true.
As things stand the divide between the top pvp guilds and 'normal' players is just too large. The top geared players can stomp their way to more and more stuff while everybody else just loses every match.
There are far to many variables to consider.
Basically there are some people that you will never be able to kill (see video)
Others you will be able to destroy without trying.
This is in a match with full teams of rank 12's
Certain item combinations will allow you to just stand still and "afk" and never die while people with full rank 12's / trans enchantments attack you.
If you even want to consider doing pvp, get a trans feytouch, and a trans negation.
That is your best start to creating your own balance.
Good luck
Its nothing special, just a new bug. Drowned set healing for more than 50% of maximum hit points but its not at all how its that broken. Testing today with a few friends some things we are observate that Drowned Set heals sometimes 5 times in 1 second. You have also one bug with Soulforge but somehow its doesnt works on level 70. After soulforge proc you get in a few seconds insta-healing. ACT showed me health buff named "Sidekicking!", so its a new mechanism what is broken. Firstly i saw this on preview sever but i dont know exatcly what it was.
@edit
It was Drowned Set. Look on his indicators he had indicator of this. Wheel of Water and Drowned Heart have this same indicator.