Justice Tankadin getting one shot

soonergm

I ran my first kessel's last night with my paladin. I felt sorry for the PUG as I made many mistakes lol. But we made it through.

I kept getting one shot though. Worse than with my ranger and I have way more defense and HP. We also had a pretty good healing DC which was hard for me to notice because all my deaths were instant.

Is this common? I haven't had any issues like this on other content yet. Would a lesser negation help with this at all?

bkt5789

Don't rush into combat, give it a second, slowly ease your way in. It seems to take a second for the game to factor in your own defences when you get hit by an enemy if you rush into battle. Enemies seem to have an arm pen glitch for now at the start of battle. Where they have their damage go against your zero defences until your defences are factored in. If you notice after you get back up it gets easier.

Keep all enemies you are tanking in front of you as they can gain combat advantage against you. This is for sure a one shot. It is not you're responsibility to position yourself to give everyone else combat advantage, that is the job of the dps. Your job is to survive and be a loud HAMSTER HAMSTER boss on the field so that the enemies are so distracted by you that they won't care that they are being hit by other people.

Avoid using restless avenger when there are more than one enemies, unless the enemy is immune to knock back. Restless avenger gives us our highest ap gain, however the knock back is so bad that it dampens your parties ability to melt the enemies down. The longer it takes them to melt enemies down, the easier it is for you to die, and party to wipe. Also when the enemies scatter about from that skill I've seen many tankadin struggle to get them in perfect formation in front of them, instead the tankadin tends to wind up in the middle of everything giving the enemies combat advantage. There is no point to using restless avenger when you have a battery cleric or guardian fighter in the party. Use burning light instead. Restless avenger is great for mobility and boss battles to quickly gain ap. Bosses are immune to knock backs.

Focus on your recovery and ap gain. You becoming self sufficient without a battery cleric or guardian fighter to maintain your bubble is bad HAMSTER. I think 10k recovery should do it. the higher these numbers the less insecurity of how long it takes you to grant god mode to the rest of your party is. It gives everyone an easier state of mind.

Negation is great for pvp, I'm on the fence about it for pve. I like using soulforged, but I would like to make a trans negation and test that out.

thefabricant

bkt5789 said:

Don't rush into combat, give it a second, slowly ease your way in. It seems to take a second for the game to factor in your own defences when you get hit by an enemy if you rush into battle. Enemies seem to have an arm pen glitch for now at the start of battle. Where they have their damage go against your zero defences until your defences are factored in. If you notice after you get back up it gets easier.



Keep all enemies you are tanking in front of you as they can gain combat advantage against you. This is for sure a one shot. It is not you're responsibility to position yourself to give everyone else combat advantage, that is the job of the dps. Your job is to survive and be a loud HAMSTER HAMSTER boss on the field so that the enemies are so distracted by you that they won't care that they are being hit by other people.



Avoid using restless avenger when there are more than one enemies, unless the enemy is immune to knock back. Restless avenger gives us our highest ap gain, however the knock back is so bad that it dampens your parties ability to melt the enemies down. The longer it takes them to melt enemies down, the easier it is for you to die, and party to wipe. Also when the enemies scatter about from that skill I've seen many tankadin struggle to get them in perfect formation in front of them, instead the tankadin tends to wind up in the middle of everything giving the enemies combat advantage. There is no point to using restless avenger when you have a battery cleric or guardian fighter in the party. Use burning light instead. Restless avenger is great for mobility and boss battles to quickly gain ap. Bosses are immune to knock backs.



Focus on your recovery and ap gain. You becoming self sufficient without a battery cleric or guardian fighter to maintain your bubble is bad HAMSTER. I think 10k recovery should do it. the higher these numbers the less insecurity of how long it takes you to grant god mode to the rest of your party is. It gives everyone an easier state of mind.



Negation is great for pvp, I'm on the fence about it for pve. I like using soulforged, but I would like to make a trans negation and test that out.

4k recovery is enough with careful play and a sigil of the devoted, 6k is enough with less careful play and there is no reason to go higher then 8k due to the diminishing returns on recovery, unless of coarse you trying to achieve permanent binding oath, but that requires around about 16.4k recovery.

boatmanfall3n

Not at all. Aura of vengeance procs echo of light. You have aura of wisdom at your disposal. Justice gets judge. Add a bit of recovery and call it a day.

d4rkh0rs3

Just to clarify, it will take significantly more than 16.4k recovery for 100% binding oath uptime.

thefabricant

d4rkh0rs3 said:

Just to clarify, it will take significantly more than 16.4k recovery for 100% binding oath uptime.

No it won't, I can show you the math to prove it.

soonergm

ran with a pally the other day that had almost 11k recovery. no cleric for 3/4 of the run and his bubble never dropped. other things can help.. cloak, companion, artifacts with AP gain.

d4rkh0rs3

Please do.

masterwolf56

I have less then 3k recovery and keep up bubble permanent. Only time I have a problem is when I get stunned or durning AP drain.

soonergm

@masterwolf56 is that without a haste cleric? If so then what are the biggest contributors in your build that help you achieve that?

masterwolf56

Snail, Justice tree, Sharandar boon, mythic devoted sigil, maxed out protector power. Also use Lostmauth set and all my gear is maxed out. Might be a gap every once in a while that bubble will be down for half a sec but I'll shout out if it's down. Namely have problems if I get stunned or grabbed by a hand in VT. That's why when I see a paladin in my guild with massive amounts of Recovery, I'll let them know they don't need that much.

masterwolf56

We don't really use haste clerics in our guild. We have a few, but they learn its not necessary and switch to dps clerics. We do still have a couple of haste clerics though.

soonergm

Well they may need the recovery on thier way up lol.

thefabricant

d4rkh0rs3 said:

Please do.

Ok, sorry it took me so long to reply to this, I play on the pc version of the game so I do not often refer to the xbox forums, but to quote myself from a post I made on the pc forums:

thefabricant said:

So I was bored today and decided to do some completely theoretical work on a potentially completely invulnerable character. It is not for a character that is in any way, shape or form optimised, but I thought it would be a nice thing to share regardless. Thought I would share it here, considering it seems like something that would interest you @kolatmaster . The idea here is for binding oath to always be available for use before its timer resets, as if you can continuously reset it before its timer expires, you never take any damage, ever. So it goes like this:

Firstly, you want to have about 1 second leeway for casting it before the timer expires, so I am going to say you need to reduce its cool down to 7 seconds, not 8, to become completely invulnerable:

Now, lets look at the Justice capstone, which reduces your cooldowns 0.35 of the cooldown on the label. This means, that you actually need to reduce binding oath's cooldown to 7*100/65=10.769 before you are completely invulnerable. However, because of NWO's rounding, you realistically need to reduce the cooldown to 10 seconds, in order to become invulnerable (which means 10 seconds or less).

To reduce the cooldown to 10 seconds, you need a recharge speed increase of:
22/10 = 2.2 or, to put it in other terms, an additional 120%

So, is it theoretically possible to achieve that recharge speed off your own characters?
Aura of wisdom: 25% recharge speed increase (you now need 95% bonus)
6% bonus from feats: (you now need 89% bonus)
max int roll (12)+7 points from levelling+4 from int belt = 23-10 = 13% (you now need a 82% bonus)
2% bonus from book imp (you now need a 80% bonus)

Now, lets look at recovery, firstly off your companion (Augment for simplicity):
80*200 = 16000 recovery
3 offense slots*700 =2.1k recovery
852*3 = 2556 recovery (from recovery companion gear)
3x offense slot on companion + arcane runestones, rank 12 = 2.1k
2100+2100+2556 = 6756 recovery
6756*1.15 = 7769.4 (from legendary bonus)
16000-7769.4 = 8230.6 recovery (total remaining required)

Recovery off your own gear:
Remaining to acquire: 8230.6
7 offense slots *700 = 4.9k recovery (2MH+1OH+1Cloak+1Shirt+2Ring)
400 recovery from boons (not counting stronghold boons)
2270 from recovery from 4 piece gear.
1221 from personalised stuff with recovery on it.
4000 recovery from mythic artifacts with recovery on them
596 recovery from owlbear belt + imperial cloak.
8230.6-4900-400-2270-1221-4000-596 = -5156.4 recovery, or 25% recharge speed

This means that firstly, 145% is the absolute roof (allowing for 9 second BO before justice capstone)) for recharge speed increase on paladin (there is absolutely no need for this much, but you know, if you wanted to, you could build for it) and that its possible to be completely immune to damage, if you were bored and wanted to. With heroism as a daily, you could deal with control immunity and then spam at wills to kill things, completely safe in the knowledge that your recharge speed increase makes you completely invulnerable.

This explains it nicely, I am not retyping it.

respectpays

shield of faith with a haste dc makes life easy negation helps 2

d4rkh0rs3

@thefabricant I just read your response, not that it matters much at this point, haha... A few months late, no big deal.

The recovery figure of ~16k we discussed assumes other factors beyond the recovery stat are contributing to the binding oath cooldown. My argument was that ~16k recovery, or even ~140% recharge speed, is not sufficient on its own for 100% binding oath uptime. You showed in your post that the math just isn't there. This is where our discussion differences were based on interpretation.

You are correct that 16k will help with Binding Oath uptime. My OP has/had 12-13k recovery and ~105% cumulative recharge speed IIRC, and that was sufficent for full BO uptime when coupled with Aura of Vengeance and the Justice tree. Granted, the 105% cumulative recharge speed gave me little margin for error.

In theory, you could have technically skated by with even less recovery (4-8k) if using the Justice tree, Echoes, Aura of Vengeance, and had your team eat damage ticks while the bubble is up. I believe the devs are or have fixed Echoes and Aura of Vengeance because of this.