Question on rotation

boom782

I just recently started playing my HR after a few months off while playing my CW. I am following Katozees Trapper build and had a question for the HR experts.

I have the exact setup with powers Kato suggests found here: http://mmominds.com/2015/05/23/katozees-hunter-rooter/

My questions is why does he suggest this as rotation beginning from ranged stance: [Y] > [B] > [X] > [RB] > [X] > [Y] > [B] > [RB] > REPEAT x3?

Doesn't it make more sense to start off with Fox's Cunning [X] instead of Constricting Arrow [Y]? I ask because when I follow his rotation I usually end up getting hit before I get Fox's off. Wouldn't it be best to go into a fight with 1 free dodge?

I am still very new to this so just looking for guidance or suggestions.

Thanks!

kitaar

Your correct.. especially in Mod 6 dungeons, mod 5 (which was when his build was written).. we were all in god mode I think, it didn't matter. Giving everyone in your group a free dodge every rotation is very important. Lostmauth laser eyes comes to mind as a timed rotation for you to remember.. it's one of our best encounters.

boom782

Awesome, thanks!

Any other tips? Just about to hit 69 and feel like I am somewhat getting the hang of things. I feel stronger when I only use encounter and daily and never touch my RT or LT. Is that due to some buffs I read somewhere?

wdj40

Urgh honestly do not follow his build.... so many people actually gimped themselves by doing so. I could highlight a few issues with it. Do not get me wrong, his build is good but he should have put way more hours into testing it.

His build also is for Mod 5... I for sure would not follow it now unless he updates it to Mod 6. I have not got around to updating mine so I`ll probably do that shortly.

Couple of things if you followed his build. He chose Twin Blade Storm which was complete rubbish in Mod 5 and a waste of a passive. Aspect of the Pack would have got you and your Allies 15% extra damage from all sources (plus Charisma and items CA + items increase that)... TBS would only have given 12% and that is only for certain specific powers, TBS is an extremely selfish skill you also gimped your team a little by choosing it.

He also choses Constricting Arrow... Whilst good the Ranged AoE is tiny, the power takes slightly too long to fire off for pure speed/dps reasons and it sometimes does not work if you get hit or dodge or whatever. Do not get me wrong the power is still good and useable though. Same with Cordon of Arrows... its ok but waaaaaaaay too slow.

Disrupting Arrow is not that good... Slashers Mark is a much better choice as then you have 1 Ranged and 1 Melee Daily and can use Ranged when you switched to ranged rotation or Melee when switching to the melee rotation. Also Slashers Mark gives you stamina so you can then go without Constricting Arrow.

He does not suggest choosing Half Orc as the race... It is probably the best race to chose for 5% extra crit DAMAGE.

He talks about Ancient Roots giving more root time etc... not really as the Encounters are so fast roots are being reapplied all the time, then Master Trapper over-writes Control Bonus every 10 seconds (he never mentions this). Cojntrol Bonus % increase things are useless to a Trapper etc.

wdj40

By the way never fire off a Buff (Ranged or Melee) as the 1st Encounter in your rotation when you switch stances. I only say this if you use Aspect of the Serpent though really. It will use a stack of AotS which is a complete waste of a buff.

wdj40

The other issue I have with his build is he suggests not using At-Wills. This is nonsense... if you fire off Fox`s Shift 1st in the rotation this uses up both stacks of Melss AotS and replaces it with 1 stack of Ranged AtoS. Therefore using At-Wills during the melee rotation has no effect on AotS as the 1st Encounter really should be Fox`s Shift anyway.

Good trick to keep in mind or try, on the melee part of the rotation hold down the Rapid Strike (you can fire off Encounters whilst holding the trigger). You will get in some extra hits during your melee rotation. I wouldn`t hold the Trigger down through the ranged rotation though as both Ranged Encounters benefit fully from AotS (as long as you do not Fox`s Cunning 1st).

Also if you have the Lostmouth set then At-Wills become a whole lot better... for instance even a Rapid Strike hit and crits for say 2k-3k... the set adds between 5-6k to it, if he had tested this a lot more then he may have come to the same conclusion.

Try this rotation out if you like :

My rotation if fighting in a group against normal mobs :

1. Aiming Shot
2. Fox`s Cunning
3. Oak Skin
4. Binding Shot and Siesmic Shot if AP is full
5. Hindering Shot
6. Fox`s Shift and Slasher`s Mark if AP is full
7. Hindering Strike
8. Oak Skin
9. Binding Shot
10. Hindering Shot
11. Fox`s Cunning
12. and repeat steps 6-12 from now on

My rotation if fighting a large enemy or boss of some type in a group, or if I am running solo with no companion :

1. Aiming Shot
2. Fox`s Cunning
3. Oak Skin
4. Binding Shot and Siesmic Shot if AP is full
5. Hindering Shot
6. Aimed Strike
7. Fox`s Shift and Slasher`s Mark if AP is full
8. Hindering Strike
9. Oak Skin
10. Binding Shot
11. Hindering Shot
12. Fox`s Cunning
13. and repeat steps 6-13 from now on

It comes from my Build http://gotwe.boards.net/thread/403/hr-build-mk2 BUT THIS BUILD WAS MOD 5... I have not done the Mod 6 one yet

P.s. Step 3 in the rotation is completely optional.

boom782

Thank you very much for such detailed responses. Hopefully you get around to updating your build for mod 6 soon.

I had no idea playing a hunter could be so confusing or complicated! I am currently testing out the Fire Archon with 2 Greater and 1 perfect Bonding and it seems good but I am still definitely squishy. My iLvl is 1600 at lvl 68 though and I already have Alliance armor purchased for him once he reaches 70 so that should help.

I may also buy the Lostmauth set for him since it is going for about 1.4mill right now which is not terrible.

Thanks again!

boom782

wdj40 said:

The other issue I have with his build is he suggests not using At-Wills. This is nonsense... if you fire off Fox`s Shift 1st in the rotation this uses up both stacks of Melss AotS and replaces it with 1 stack of Ranged AtoS. Therefore using At-Wills during the melee rotation has no effect on AotS as the 1st Encounter really should be Fox`s Shift anyway.

Good trick to keep in mind or try, on the melee part of the rotation hold down the Rapid Strike (you can fire off Encounters whilst holding the trigger). You will get in some extra hits during your melee rotation. I wouldn`t hold the Trigger down through the ranged rotation though as both Ranged Encounters benefit fully from AotS (as long as you do not Fox`s Cunning 1st).

Also if you have the Lostmouth set then At-Wills become a whole lot better... for instance even a Rapid Strike hit and crits for say 2k-3k... the set adds between 5-6k to it, if he had tested this a lot more then he may have come to the same conclusion.

Try this rotation out if you like :

My rotation if fighting in a group against normal mobs :

1. Aiming Shot
2. Fox`s Cunning
3. Oak Skin
4. Binding Shot and Siesmic Shot if AP is full
5. Hindering Shot
6. Fox`s Shift and Slasher`s Mark if AP is full
7. Hindering Strike
8. Oak Skin
9. Binding Shot
10. Hindering Shot
11. Fox`s Cunning
12. and repeat steps 6-12 from now on

My rotation if fighting a large enemy or boss of some type in a group, or if I am running solo with no companion :

1. Aiming Shot
2. Fox`s Cunning
3. Oak Skin
4. Binding Shot and Siesmic Shot if AP is full
5. Hindering Shot
6. Aimed Strike
7. Fox`s Shift and Slasher`s Mark if AP is full
8. Hindering Strike
9. Oak Skin
10. Binding Shot
11. Hindering Shot
12. Fox`s Cunning
13. and repeat steps 6-13 from now on

It comes from my Build http://gotwe.boards.net/thread/403/hr-build-mk2 BUT THIS BUILD WAS MOD 5... I have not done the Mod 6 one yet

P.s. Step 3 in the rotation is completely optional.

So I am testing this and so far I like it but just want to clarify things. I'm not sure if you are Xbox or not but I will be listing button configurations for ease of use using your first rotation listed above. I only want clarification because it seems you switch stance more than I expected rather than using all 3 encounters and then switching.

X button - Fox Cunning/Shift
Y button - Binding arrow/Oak Skin
B button - hindering shot/strike
Left trigger - Aimed shot/strike
Right trigger - rapid shot/strike
Right bumper - switch stance

So you begin in range and use this rotation:

LT
X
RB
Y
RB
Y
B
RB
X
B
Y
RB
B
X

I am writing this out mainly for me as well to get the rotation. I notice my cool downs are not refreshed when I get back to Oak Skin(the 11th button in rotation)

wdj40

You have exactly the same button set up as me which is really handy ha ha The only extra stance changes are at the start of battle... once in battle just steps 6-12 or 6-13 are needed.

Anyhoo yes I think I may have messed up a little with my wording and I never noticed until now so I am glad you mentioned it lol. I have just done a short 45 second clip of my rotation so I will post a link when its uploaded. I would also like to note I ALWAYS start off battle with 2 stacks of AotS in my buff bar, you can just hit thin air with Rapid Strikes and it builds the Ranged Stacks

My rotation if fighting in a group against normal mobs :

1. Fox`s Cunning -
2. Oak Skin -
3. Aimed Shot
4. Binding Shot
5. Hindering Shot -
6. Fox`s Shift and Slasher`s Mark if AP is full
7. Hindering Strike
8. Oak Skin -
9. Binding Shot or Siesmic Shot 1st if AP is full
10. Hindering Shot
11. Fox`s Cunning -
12. and repeat steps 6-12 from now on

My rotation if fighting a large enemy or boss of some type in a group, or if I am running solo with no companion :

1. Fox`s Cunning -
2. Oak Skin -
3. Aimed Shot
4. Binding Shot
5. Hindering Shot -
6. Aimed Strike
7. Fox`s Shift and Slasher`s Mark if AP is full
8. Hindering Strike
9. Oak Skin -
10. Binding Shot or Siesmic Shot 1st if AP full
11. Hindering Shot
12. Fox`s Cunning -
13. and repeat steps 6-13 from now on

So for me its...
X - switch to melee
Y - switch to ranged
LT
Y
B - switch to melee
*LT
*X - This point right here is where I hold RT as well
*B
*Y - switch to ranged and let go of RT just before
*Y
*B
*X - switch to melee
*LT and repeat from LT above (as shown by the *)

Its complicated until you get the hang of it ha ha... also each person may have their own preferences for instance swapping out Binding Shot/Oak Skin for Constricting Arrow or some-such.

wdj40

Arrrrrrrrgg I cannot edit my post due to the forum changes I cannot access the edit button. I do not know why but some of my text went missing AGAIN

Switch to melee and switch to ranged is missing from the steps part of my above post... I do not know why it keeps vanishing... you can even see the little - where I wrote after it the stance change.

wdj40

Here we go a short video of my rotation against the training dummies http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/wdj40/video/12366053

Bear in mind your cool downs are effected by your Feats (there are 2 of them that reduce cool downs) and also if you connect with the enemy. If you do not connect with an attack (like Hindering Strike) you do not get the benefit of reduced cool-downs.

Also people keep saying Recovery is useless for a HR Trapper... But its not, a higher Recovery actually allows you to not put so many points into the Reduced cool down Feat. I actually only have 3 points in Swiftness of the Fox for 9% and then I put 5 points into Forestbond (when you apply Grasping Roots it reduces cool downs by 5%). In the end this allowed me to put 10 points into the Archery tree to get an extra 5% crit chance whilst in Ranged Stance.

I have posted this clip before but here is 7mins of me going solo through Master of the Hunt Skirmish to test out less points in Swiftness of the Fox. Its good as it shows you the rotation I use and it sometimes gets into a bit of a pickle with cool-downs (it is high risk to put less points in Swiftness of the Fox). This clip is slightly old now though as I have picked up 3 more boons since the video http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/wdj40/video/12274622

boom782

wdj40 said:

Here we go a short video of my rotation against the training dummies http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/wdj40/video/12366053

Bear in mind your cool downs are effected by your Feats (there are 2 of them that reduce cool downs) and also if you connect with the enemy. If you do not connect with an attack (like Hindering Strike) you do not get the benefit of reduced cool-downs.

Also people keep saying Recovery is useless for a HR Trapper... But its not, a higher Recovery actually allows you to not put so many points into the Reduced cool down Feat. I actually only have 3 points in Swiftness of the Fox for 9% and then I put 5 points into Forestbond (when you apply Grasping Roots it reduces cool downs by 5%). In the end this allowed me to put 10 points into the Archery tree to get an extra 5% crit chance whilst in Ranged Stance.

I have posted this clip before but here is 7mins of me going solo through Master of the Hunt Skirmish to test out less points in Swiftness of the Fox. Its good as it shows you the rotation I use and it sometimes gets into a bit of a pickle with cool-downs (it is high risk to put less points in Swiftness of the Fox). This clip is slightly old now though as I have picked up 3 more boons since the video http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/wdj40/video/12274622

Hmm, the Aimed shot which is #3 on your rotation seems like it wastes a lot of time. What is the reasoning for that?

kitaar

Interesting to see different play styles, my rotations are different. I always tell people whatever suits you and your group, Pathfinder has some great stuff, so does Stormwarden.. Cordon of arrows has found its way into my rotation abit, just for testing.

wdj40

boom782 said:

wdj40 said:

Here we go a short video of my rotation against the training dummies http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/wdj40/video/12366053

Bear in mind your cool downs are effected by your Feats (there are 2 of them that reduce cool downs) and also if you connect with the enemy. If you do not connect with an attack (like Hindering Strike) you do not get the benefit of reduced cool-downs.

Also people keep saying Recovery is useless for a HR Trapper... But its not, a higher Recovery actually allows you to not put so many points into the Reduced cool down Feat. I actually only have 3 points in Swiftness of the Fox for 9% and then I put 5 points into Forestbond (when you apply Grasping Roots it reduces cool downs by 5%). In the end this allowed me to put 10 points into the Archery tree to get an extra 5% crit chance whilst in Ranged Stance.

I have posted this clip before but here is 7mins of me going solo through Master of the Hunt Skirmish to test out less points in Swiftness of the Fox. Its good as it shows you the rotation I use and it sometimes gets into a bit of a pickle with cool-downs (it is high risk to put less points in Swiftness of the Fox). This clip is slightly old now though as I have picked up 3 more boons since the video http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/wdj40/video/12274622

Hmm, the Aimed shot which is #3 on your rotation seems like it wastes a lot of time. What is the reasoning for that?

It hits like a truck with AotS, Agile Combatant etc. Also I have the power on my weapon which increases my run speed by 40% after an Aimed Shot... makes it good to close in on the enemy quickly and use Fox`s Shift... Also the power increases my Aimed Strike damage by 12% (another reason I like using it). I only used it once in the video clip and it did not crit unfortunately.

Anyhoo it can hit for like 80k-100k sometimes... then an extra 20k from Elven Ferocity, 6-8k from Lostmoath Set, 3k from Greater Tenebrous Rune so it ends up being a massive attack near the start of battle

Also bear in mind all these numbers I post are with all Purple Items and Artefacts etc.

wdj40

kitaar said:

Interesting to see different play styles, my rotations are different. I always tell people whatever suits you and your group, Pathfinder has some great stuff, so does Stormwarden.. Cordon of arrows has found its way into my rotation abit, just for testing.

Yeah dude that why I love the HR so much and could not get into the other classes afterwards. There is actually a huge variety in play styles and all have their benefits

Also the reason I became a HR in the 1st place was all the hate... they got kicked ALL the time from every dungeon and so many people complaining about it. So I played it and played it and started advising others on how to make it better and hopefully get the name of the HR good enough to not be kicked all the time

I think it worked, along with other like Katozee who helped people massively etc the HR is now very well respected

boom782

I am definitely having fun playing my HR but one thing I notice is I spend more time looking ay my encounter bar than I do at what is actually going on. I am lvl 69 and taking down 2 giants at a time very easily in Spinward and coming out with 100% hp and I know I struggled a little more on the giants when leveling my CW and DC.

I'm guessing that will probably change once I bring him into t2's though since if I don't pay attention I will easily get 1 shot.

wdj40

Yeah it takes a while to get used to using 6 Encounters in 2-3 seconds or less, throw in At-Wills and Dailies in the rotations and it can get confusing at times lol

I end up just hammering the Encounter button whilst holding Rapid Strike until it fires off

boom782

Just hit 70 this morning and not less than 15 minutes later I had to head to the airport to go out of town for the weekend. Ha, i can't wait to get back and play this guy now that the leveling grind is over.

Question on gear...what should I buy? I have a few mill AD. He currently has a perfect plague fire, lesser vorpal, Alliance gear purchased with seals, fire archon with 2 perfect bonding and 1 greater bonding, and the rest random drops with mostly rank 7/8 enchants.

I am thinking the Lostmauth set since it is going for as low as 850k now. Also gemmed pants and shirt and I'm working on jewel crafting on him.

Thanks!

wdj40

Wow you just hit 70 and your as well kitted out, if not better, than me already it sounds like ha ha nice one

Hmmmm it is hard to give advice without knowing stats etc... The Lostmouth Set is only good if you have a high Crit build, if you do not then it is a bit of a waste. Same with Vorpal, both that and Lostmouth only good for high Crits.

Good thing about Armours etc is you can mix and match. I just aimed for 60% Arm Pen, 40% Crit, 10% Lifesteal then as much in Power as I could with a little in Recovery... You also use a Companion instead of an Augment which changes your playstyle as well, I have yet to try that until I have 3 Perfect Bonding Runes (I have yet to try that).

Basically if it was me I would just go Lostmouth Set + Vorpal for a high crit build.
Or Terror Enchant and a different set if a low crit build.

soonergm

i just want to jump in and give some general advice for HR... there is already a lot of good detail in the thread. i recommend not getting too attached to 1 single rotation. of course you will always have your favored bread and butter play style, but the flexibility of the trapper is nice and i encourage all to exploit this based on your current situation or party make up.

some examples:

depending on the mob i am facing i may open up with hindering strike. if i can get in quick enough i may take 1 or 2 hits, or none, but that will be the last hit i take. with crushing roots the mob will be dazed and most likely stay that way until dead

on a boss with one hit kill potential, i like to open up with fox cunning. i may try and change the rotation during the fight to take advantage of aots, but this is based on the situation, and opportunity. not always easy to do.

oak skin is not a part of my normal rotation, but i will not hesitate to throw it in there if i am struggling to survive. i like to dps as much as possible, but dead = no dps.

don't be afraid to mix it up

wdj40

I agree... if you can afford the retraining tokens etc it is really good to test lots of different things out and see what suits you best

boom782

So I recently got my artifact MH and OH and even at Epic it is a large step DOWN from the ensorcelled MH and OH I have been using to level. Even with the set bonus the artifact equipment doesn't stack up. That is disappointing.

meliboo

@boom782 How is the ensorcelled better than epic Artifact? For my HR, I have Legendary Artifact weapons, but I think when they were epic they were better than the ensorcelled. Not only stat wise, but also for the set bonus. Do you have specific numbers how artifact is not better, as I a genuinely interested since I no longer have them as epic.

boom782

meliboo#4082 said:

@boom782 How is the ensorcelled better than epic Artifact? For my HR, I have Legendary Artifact weapons, but I think when they were epic they were better than the ensorcelled. Not only stat wise, but also for the set bonus. Do you have specific numbers how artifact is not better, as I a genuinely interested since I no longer have them as epic.

Sure. I'll post up Ensorcelled stats and the change if I equip artifacts.

Ensorcelled Mulhorand Longbow - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Ensorcelled_Mulhorand_Longbow

2491 Power
554 Crit
237 Recovery
237 ArPen

Longbow of Elemental Fire at Epic

2295 Power
391 Crit
391 ArPen

Ensorcelled Mulhornad Blades - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Ensorcelled_Mulhorand_Blades

2491 Power
554 Crit
237 Recovery
237 ArPen

Elemental Fire Blades at Epic

2295 Power
391 Deflect
391 Lifesteal

Add in the 394 ArPen and 394 Deflect from set bonus and the Ensorcelled set is still better than artifacts at Epic(purple). I'm sure they are better at Legendary but I haven't even gotten my main(CW) to Legendary MH and OH yet. Very disappointing that this is the case since Artifact equipment should be end game equipment even when not maxed.

meliboo

Wow, interesting. I wonder if it is the same for the other classes artifact/ensorcelled weapons as well. I was under the impression that at Epic the artifacts were better, but for the HR you proved me wrong on that.

wdj40

The point is though, with Artefact Weapons are the extra bonuses you get. You get up to 400 in something like Combat Advantage Bonus, Stamina Regen, AP bonus etc with the use of a few Cubes of Augmentation.

Then you also get the bonuses like 12% extra damage for Aimed Strike, 10% more damage from Rapid Strikes etc etc so extra damage for an At-Will Power.

Also you get a boost to a skill, for instance Crushing roots now Daze enemies, Cruel Recovery now gives 0.5% HP for crits as well as Temp HP etc etc.

There are lots of bonuses you do not get with the Ensorcelled items... they are only slightly better than a new Purple Artefact Weapon in damage only... very slight stat increases. You can get all the stats you need from adding runes to equipment. Also at Legendary the Artefact Weapons have 2 rune slots each.