I call BS on Orig Poster, OP can in now way out dps a well played/built DPS class, they cant even out dps poorly played DPS classes, as for Devotion, they can only compete with DPS classes on trash mobs any DPS worth their salt will destroy any Paly build, on a boss encounter which is the only thing that actually counts.
Any the argument that Tanks should not be able to keep up with GF, a well build GF, can surpass any DPS class on a boss encounter as well.
These are facts just search a bit ACT logs all over the place backing this up.
0
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I call BS on Orig Poster, OP can in now way out dps a well played/built DPS class, they cant even out dps poorly played DPS classes, as for Devotion, they can only compete with DPS classes on trash mobs any DPS worth their salt will destroy any Paly build, on a boss encounter which is the only thing that actually counts.
Any the argument that Tanks should not be able to keep up with GF, a well build GF, can surpass any DPS class on a boss encounter as well.
These are facts just search a bit ACT logs all over the place backing this up.
Actually, a properly specced devotion pally in a party can pwn any properly played and specced BiS dps class, under the right conditions. It is stupid and needs to be fixed, you can read my guide if you interested. Or, if you just want proof, you can join me for a dungeon run with some of my friends.
Just a guess, but if the Devs would move the damage numbers from auras, boons or other abilities from the source player to the actual emitting players instead, there would be no one left complaining about this anymore...
Anyway, the Devs should fix a lot of bugs with abilities/boons/equipment/enchantments/... first, then check the numbers of every class after that again, and then maybe think about balancing.
Just a guess, but if the Devs would move the damage numbers from auras, boons or other abilities from the source player to the actual emitting players instead, there would be no one left complaining about this anymore...
Anyway, the Devs should fix a lot of bugs with abilities/boons/equipment/enchantments/... first, then check the numbers of every class after that again, and then maybe think about balancing.
If you move aura of courage to a dev pali's paingiver its even more lobsided. aura of courage is ranges from 10-15% of a parties total damage ( varies by class makeup).
but what you want cant be done in any reasonable manor. how much damage do you assign to terror debuff, how much damage is a clerics blessing of battle buff/power aura+apfeed+glow,
how do you calculate those things in real time. and not make the game crawl more than it does when you have 2 dev palis with oath and prism going.
If i'm not mistaken, the damage from some auras, abilities, boons and enchantments are counted only to the source (OP) in "paingiver", right? I'm not talking about moving anything other around then those damage numbers, instead of those numbers adding up to the source (OP) only, the damage will be divided onto the affected players in the party.
For example, if the damage of an OP aura bounces of a CW, then that damage would not be counted to the OP but to the CW instead.
And while we're at it, i would also remove any kind of "self-inflicted" damage numbers from "paingiver" too.
Overall "paingiver" should then display the damage where it happens, and only the damage that is done to enemies.
If i'm not mistaken, the damage from some auras, abilities, boons and enchantments are counted only to the source (OP) in "paingiver", right? I'm not talking about moving anything other around then those damage numbers, instead of those numbers adding up to the source (OP) only, the damage will be divided onto the affected players in the party.
For example, if the damage of an OP aura bounces of a CW, then that damage would not be counted to the OP but to the CW instead.
And while we're at it, i would also remove any kind of "self-inflicted" damage numbers from "paingiver" too.
Overall "paingiver" should then display the damage where it happens, and only the damage that is done to enemies.
other than removing the self damage, that's exactly what paingiver gives now. it gives aura of courage dmg to whomever actually attacked. i dont run vengeance in dungeons so i dont know where it counts that. so when you see Dev palis with high dps there are 2 things that are sure. 1 theres either alot of people and/or alot of monsters. and 2 that number is mostly burning guidance.
Try to not chose burning guidance on your dr boon, then u will see ur score will be dramtic decrease on the dps score board. You will possibly at the 4th or 5th position.
Every teamate just like a boom, when they get heal such as from vow, it is aoe dmg to mobs near by them, the dmg from bg almost 4*n
But why boarder? I am always not understand why player complaint other class dualing more dps then their class in pve, as the dugeon soon finish smoothly and get ur reward, everybody happy. Why want to spend more time to finish the dungeon?
On pc have there been any patches that affect the paladin class? I don't like creating posts that encourage the nerfing of classes. But having played on the xbox, where very few can manage to legit complete t2 dungeons, I have seen what I can only describe as one of the most broken mechanics in any mmo. So I can only assume that there have been some changes since mod 7 hit pc.???
The oathbound paladin tank build (also known as the bubble build or immortal paladin) when you have a group of 2 paladin tanks and one haste cleric, you can literally breeze through the hardest t2 dungeons, without taking any damage whatsoever. You could literally run these 3 classes and 2 level 1s and still complete them. Never before have I seen a build that absorbs any damage and dishes out the same damage back. It literally makes dps, tanks and healers obscelete on the game as you take no damage and encourage everyone to stand in the red.
It's broken beyond belief... surely there have been some changes in the last few months of pc??
You are so incredibly wrong about oathbound paladins, it isn't funny.
1) They do heal, yes, but they do not out-perform Devoted Clerics in healing. They are designed to assist the Clerics, so there are less deaths and downtime/fails. They don't even come close to healing as much as a Cleric does. If pallies are outhealing your cleric, you need serious respec/rebuild.
2) Paladins are not immortal as you claim. Yes, they DO take damage, almost as well as a guardian fighter. That IS their main role, to be a meat shield. So they have terrific Defense. However, if they get flanked/hit by High-end boss daily/power move, they go down. Dead.
3) In NO WAY, SHAPE or FORM does a pally out-do dps characters.
Plain and simple, you're butt hurt, feeling nullified just because paladins are tanks that can heal. You shouldn't be. You should see the truth here... A pally can keep everyone (or you) alive long enough for your heal stacks to build so you can heal the group.
As for the dungeon matchups, yes, since the update (lvl cap increase and pally class), it has been out of whack. They need to adjust the A.I. for the 3 player setup, because it's just stupid to line up 3 tanks/2 tanks + 1 hlr/3 hlrs. While that's going on, it's throwing 3 DDs together. It needs to throw a tank or healer in with the DDs, and a dd in with tanks/hlrs.
If they nerf the pally because of posts like yours, it's going to mess the game up.
One more thing, pally has a helpful gift that allows the healer's heals to jump from player to player, easing your frustration at not being able to heal everyone at once.
Again, yes, 2 OPs and a CL in a baby dungeon IS too easy. 2 rges and a wizzy in a baby dungeon is way too frustrating and, well.... stupid.
0
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
On pc have there been any patches that affect the paladin class? I don't like creating posts that encourage the nerfing of classes. But having played on the xbox, where very few can manage to legit complete t2 dungeons, I have seen what I can only describe as one of the most broken mechanics in any mmo. So I can only assume that there have been some changes since mod 7 hit pc.???
The oathbound paladin tank build (also known as the bubble build or immortal paladin) when you have a group of 2 paladin tanks and one haste cleric, you can literally breeze through the hardest t2 dungeons, without taking any damage whatsoever. You could literally run these 3 classes and 2 level 1s and still complete them. Never before have I seen a build that absorbs any damage and dishes out the same damage back. It literally makes dps, tanks and healers obscelete on the game as you take no damage and encourage everyone to stand in the red.
It's broken beyond belief... surely there have been some changes in the last few months of pc??
You are so incredibly wrong about oathbound paladins, it isn't funny.
1) They do heal, yes, but they do not out-perform Devoted Clerics in healing. They are designed to assist the Clerics, so there are less deaths and downtime/fails. They don't even come close to healing as much as a Cleric does. If pallies are outhealing your cleric, you need serious respec/rebuild.
2) Paladins are not immortal as you claim. Yes, they DO take damage, almost as well as a guardian fighter. That IS their main role, to be a meat shield. So they have terrific Defense. However, if they get flanked/hit by High-end boss daily/power move, they go down. Dead.
3) In NO WAY, SHAPE or FORM does a pally out-do dps characters.
Plain and simple, you're butt hurt, feeling nullified just because paladins are tanks that can heal. You shouldn't be. You should see the truth here... A pally can keep everyone (or you) alive long enough for your heal stacks to build so you can heal the group.
As for the dungeon matchups, yes, since the update (lvl cap increase and pally class), it has been out of whack. They need to adjust the A.I. for the 3 player setup, because it's just stupid to line up 3 tanks/2 tanks + 1 hlr/3 hlrs. While that's going on, it's throwing 3 DDs together. It needs to throw a tank or healer in with the DDs, and a dd in with tanks/hlrs.
If they nerf the pally because of posts like yours, it's going to mess the game up.
One more thing, pally has a helpful gift that allows the healer's heals to jump from player to player, easing your frustration at not being able to heal everyone at once.
Again, yes, 2 OPs and a CL in a baby dungeon IS too easy. 2 rges and a wizzy in a baby dungeon is way too frustrating and, well.... stupid.
Guess who has never played, seen or heard of a devotion paladin. I can afk and out heal your faithful dc and ill bet you a rank 12 enchant in the right party, I can out dps your BiS gwf in any dungeon of your choice.
Guess who has never played, seen or heard of a devotion paladin. I can afk and out heal your faithful dc and ill bet you a rank 12 enchant in the right party, I can out dps your BiS gwf in any dungeon of your choice.
I'm guessing they haven't done much content at all with a well built OP. No idea about the Devotion silliness, no understanding of how the Protector works and how irrelevant they make healers when played properly and so on.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Guess who has never played, seen or heard of a devotion paladin. I can afk and out heal your faithful dc and ill bet you a rank 12 enchant in the right party, I can out dps your BiS gwf in any dungeon of your choice.
yeah but you'll probably crash the instance while doing it
Comments
Any the argument that Tanks should not be able to keep up with GF, a well build GF, can surpass any DPS class on a boss encounter as well.
These are facts just search a bit ACT logs all over the place backing this up.
Anyway, the Devs should fix a lot of bugs with abilities/boons/equipment/enchantments/... first, then check the numbers of every class after that again, and then maybe think about balancing.
but what you want cant be done in any reasonable manor. how much damage do you assign to terror debuff, how much damage is a clerics blessing of battle buff/power aura+apfeed+glow,
how do you calculate those things in real time. and not make the game crawl more than it does when you have 2 dev palis with oath and prism going.
I'm not talking about moving anything other around then those damage numbers, instead of those numbers adding up to the source (OP) only, the damage will be divided onto the affected players in the party.
For example, if the damage of an OP aura bounces of a CW, then that damage would not be counted to the OP but to the CW instead.
And while we're at it, i would also remove any kind of "self-inflicted" damage numbers from "paingiver" too.
Overall "paingiver" should then display the damage where it happens, and only the damage that is done to enemies.
i dont run vengeance in dungeons so i dont know where it counts that.
so when you see Dev palis with high dps there are 2 things that are sure. 1 theres either alot of people and/or alot of monsters. and 2 that number is mostly burning guidance.
Every teamate just like a boom, when they get heal such as from vow, it is aoe dmg to mobs near by them, the dmg from bg almost 4*n
But why boarder? I am always not understand why player complaint other class dualing more dps then their class in pve, as the dugeon soon finish smoothly and get ur reward, everybody happy. Why want to spend more time to finish the dungeon?
1) They do heal, yes, but they do not out-perform Devoted Clerics in healing. They are designed to assist the Clerics, so there are less deaths and downtime/fails. They don't even come close to healing as much as a Cleric does. If pallies are outhealing your cleric, you need serious respec/rebuild.
2) Paladins are not immortal as you claim. Yes, they DO take damage, almost as well as a guardian fighter. That IS their main role, to be a meat shield. So they have terrific Defense. However, if they get flanked/hit by High-end boss daily/power move, they go down. Dead.
3) In NO WAY, SHAPE or FORM does a pally out-do dps characters.
Plain and simple, you're butt hurt, feeling nullified just because paladins are tanks that can heal. You shouldn't be. You should see the truth here... A pally can keep everyone (or you) alive long enough for your heal stacks to build so you can heal the group.
As for the dungeon matchups, yes, since the update (lvl cap increase and pally class), it has been out of whack. They need to adjust the A.I. for the 3 player setup, because it's just stupid to line up 3 tanks/2 tanks + 1 hlr/3 hlrs. While that's going on, it's throwing 3 DDs together. It needs to throw a tank or healer in with the DDs, and a dd in with tanks/hlrs.
If they nerf the pally because of posts like yours, it's going to mess the game up.
One more thing, pally has a helpful gift that allows the healer's heals to jump from player to player, easing your frustration at not being able to heal everyone at once.
Again, yes, 2 OPs and a CL in a baby dungeon IS too easy. 2 rges and a wizzy in a baby dungeon is way too frustrating and, well.... stupid.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.