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Forums > Home› Class Forums› The Guard Barracks

negation necessary?

zachisrisingzachisrising Member Posts: 129 Arc User
in The Guard Barracks
With gfs already high defense is an t. Negation still usefull?

Comments

  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    GFs don't have high defense, only a few +% from feats. We gain DR by stacking defense like any other class.

    perfect or better negation is up to 30% DR (12000 def), but each stack is independant of each other (and lasts around 8 seconds i think) so you need to get hit alot, which in most cases (minus a few boss fights like GWD).

    It's not nessecary, but it is very strong and helps you hit the DR cap easily. I have yet to test if it applies to into the fray but i have a feeling it does.

    If you PvP i'd say its required/best. For PvE you can live with soulforge which is alot cheaper.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
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  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    Maybe it's just placebo but when I run Elol yesterday without Negation I felt much weaker. Not to mention I had really weird damage spikes for double of my health...
    Anyway, as @Grimah said, all above perfect (included) Negations are really useful - not sure Trans is worth the price.
    Can't really tell the difference between having those Recovery and incoming healing stacks.

    Me thinks that recovery is not really that useful after reaching certain level, incoming healing? nah...

    I would like to hear some opinions about this.
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • oliboypholiboyph Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 627 Arc User
    It's really good, but I prefer soulforged, I keep negation on my pvp gear, and soulforged on my pve gear to save gold. Anyway, you almost usually have your shield up in delvs anyway so i just prefer to have soulforged. Negation becomes less useful in boss fights since you don't get hit as often. Soulforged allows you to get a reset, just in case you make a mistake and die, or for those unexpected lag spikes.
    "As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
  • trollkarl18trollkarl18 Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    I have bought negation enchantment and felt ok until watched a video where "negation enchantment" appeared upon every hit. Looked at myself i never saw this message appear while I have many others. What doest it mean? Feeling is like it doesnt work at all. Do you see this message every hit guys?
  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    Well it's a bit weird but you do not see this popup until you get a Transcendent version.
    I too had a perfect and didn't have the message than, wen pure - NOPE, went Trans = yeap!

    So in short words, enchantment is working but it's not showing up.

    The same goes for other visuals. I mean, some time ago you were seeing additional layers on Negation based on amount of stacks you've build. Now you don't - you have the generic enchant look no mater how many stack are generated.

    I can only imagine this was done to ease the server/graphic stress? Kinda bummer for me, because of all things, I really like Negation visuals, and those additional, shield like layers, were looking beasty!
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    Oh and another thing.

    Not sure it's placebo or my imagination. But ever since I've swapped T. Nega for SF I feel I'm taking a lot more damage.
    For the last few weeks I didn't died even once with T. Nega than after switching to SF I'm suddenly fining myself getting OH'ked with KV on (that was and still is my usual setup).

    I mean, it is 30% DR at full stack but either I'm getting old or this makes a huge huge difference.
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • trollkarl18trollkarl18 Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    thanks Kemi. I have found online that guy. he also has t. negation, so it looks like this is the reason though i can hardly understand why it makes any difference at all.

    Until that I wanted to trade negation for elven battle, but wait, there is still a bug with ITF, so did not do it.
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  • oliboypholiboyph Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 627 Arc User
    arcofortep12 said:

    Negation is KEY. Every GF should slot a Negation enchantment, but if you feel unkillable than you can ditch it.

    I agree, having negation is the only way to tank if you just hit lvl 70 and are noob at the game.
    "As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
  • zyek88zyek88 Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    On the PvE side of things I have been considering negation as a possible waste. Pending what my setup is I generally have 40-50% DR and with KV up all the time there is another 30%. From what I have read 80% is the cap. Adding negation in that case is just adding stats that aren't even used. I don't like soulforge cause 1, if i go down, my party is probably in trouble already and 2 I'm probably just going to go back down since all the aggro is aimed at me anyway.

    This brings up some interesting options.
    Briartwine: reflect % of all incoming damage. Does this proc through KV?
    Barkshield: Bonus shielding most effective at the start of the fight when you usually take the worst hit.
    Elven Battle: massive control mitigation and bonus stamina regen

    The rest have internal cooldowns so while interesting options are not as consistent. Still worth consideration if someone has a good arguement for them.

    Again, these are strictly PvE thoughts. My negation will remain on my PvP set.
  • heethinheethin Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 62 Arc User
    zyek88 said:

    with KV up all the time there is another 30%.

    I'm sorta new to thinking about GF work and I'm away from the game at the moment, so I may be wrong, but my memory was that the KV tooltip said "Knight's Valor Damage Resistance." I was thinking that the DR buff only applied to incoming damage that resulted from your team getting hit. No?

    I do like some of the other options for enchants... In particular, I expect that once I feel confident in the content that I'll move toward Briartwine to get some synergy from KV.

    I also have to admit that it's possible I'll go with Soulforged which pairs well with the Lathanders set. :) Maybe effective, but it's kinda boring. :)

  • zyek88zyek88 Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    heethin said:

    zyek88 said:

    with KV up all the time there is another 30%.

    I'm sorta new to thinking about GF work and I'm away from the game at the moment, so I may be wrong, but my memory was that the KV tooltip said "Knight's Valor Damage Resistance." I was thinking that the DR buff only applied to incoming damage that resulted from your team getting hit. No?

    I do like some of the other options for enchants... In particular, I expect that once I feel confident in the content that I'll move toward Briartwine to get some synergy from KV.

    I also have to admit that it's possible I'll go with Soulforged which pairs well with the Lathanders set. :) Maybe effective, but it's kinda boring. :)

    Derp I read it wrong. You are correct!
  • zekethesinnerzekethesinner Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 805 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Lol negation, rly good for pvp, average for pve.

    Currently BiS can go up to 32k defense with set and augment. Twisted set + guild boon is next 12k (22k or so with mod9 incoming changes) tho.

    Average 3k gf can have 25k defene on ease, if its his primary target. but even with 20k its still 50% dr + 16.5% (17.5% if orange neckle) from AC 67.5% DR is possible on gf around 2.5k (+15% from heroic feat not included on sheet, which makes it acctualy around 79%, just saying) already.

    So what is ur problem? Survivablity? r u kidding me?

    BTW r u sure negation is adding to DR? :P

    (Sin)cerely
    Kain


  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Knights valor encounter is only when the place has unstable enviroment. I mean is for traven last boss with a lot fire on the floor yes here aggro alone is not enough to protect my pt from taking damage. Also i use it for last boss in lostmauth lair, because are the stuns from the dragon not everyone can avoid them ( if you have an annointed dc is another story) and the random fire ciricles .NOTE : those fire circles have at start prone effect then convert into fire place even if you have cc immunity move out of them instead try block them.
    AND maybe for the whole run in gray wolf den.
    i dont use in general knights valor because i want to control on my own the threat generation. i dont like the base on how much intercepted thing.
    LUnging> knight valor in a gf pve rotation. jumps on the targeted monster and hit in a cone the monsters behind it. IT also give you 50% damage resistance for 3 seconds allowing you to have enough damage resistance to stay alive while you cast the enforcing threat. LUnging is the shortest cooldown encounter a gf has. THAT means is almost permanent that 50% extra dr( and thats why doesnt afffect into the fray would be scandal same and for bull charge and menace).
    BUT but ofcourse movement and when and to what way to block is the most important than all.
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  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    Depends on your playstyle really. In group play, I always have KV slotted.

    I'm not 100% sure - still I lack the time to test it properly but, If I'm correct, than KV is has much more utility than a "simple" damage mitigation.

    Just the other day I had ring of rising focus slotted ("on hitting a foe"), and had a Conq capstone ("When struck").
    Went into random SH encounter with a friend which was under KV aura. Of course I didn't hit any target, just standing idle and looking at the buff bar.

    Wasn't surprised I had full reckless and recovery stacks in a flash. So where I'm going with it...the big question is how KV works with PF enchant.

    Is it possible to apply more than one stack of PF using KV?
    Even if it applies only one stack, which is 3% damage buff for the whole party - in my book,it's more beneficial to have KV rather than LS.

    It's really hard to find a better rotation in group PVE that KV,ITF and ET.

    I really need to take a moment and test those things out. Will do probably today and come back here with the results !
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
    one thing scares me with valor is those strange poeple run ahead and take the damage and have in thought: hey have kv and lifesteal and then they kill me. with lunging i jump first and take the aggro then with enforced threat. mobs on me so noone takes damage only me.
    [URL=auplod.com/i-ldoupaa9270.html][IMG]http://www.auplod.com/t/ldoupaa9270.png[/IMG][/URL]

  • bulix91bulix91 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 30 Arc User
    Fast question: I have 75% DR normally not in fight and when I will slot T. Negation this 30% DR from enchant will make ITF more powerfull like with 105% DR? I know about cap but does it takes also ITF?
  • oliboypholiboyph Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 627 Arc User
    bulix91 said:

    Fast question: I have 75% DR normally not in fight and when I will slot T. Negation this 30% DR from enchant will make ITF more powerfull like with 105% DR? I know about cap but does it takes also ITF?

    No, Negation doesn't improve ITF. Lunging strike, bull charge, iron warrior, and other powers that increase your resistance do not work as well.

    Only items/powers that actually raise your Defensive Resistance stat or Defense stat in your character sheet improve ITF. So far I know that OP sigil as the only item that improves ITF without reflecting on character sheet.
    "As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
  • bulix91bulix91 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 30 Arc User
    So I was not mistaken as I thought it doesn't work that way just wanted to be sure. Thanks for answer :)
  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    Took me a while huh?

    As Lil wrote it the guide. KV will reflect damage and apply PF debuff.
    But it will not apply more than a singe stack. Still not sure will each mob hit by a reflect KV get a stack.

    Even if each mob will get a single stack, it will still be a nice advantage to use KV - 3% damage buff is always something...

    BTW, I hope you guys understand what I'm saying :expressionless:
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    I found when I hit 60% DR I stopped worrying about a CW's OF pushing mobs behind me and getting stabbed from behind by trash mobs so I sold my Negation and am currently building up an Elven Battle.
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