Make invoking account wide

banaanc

With AD removed from leadership and prices falling the ad gain from invoking is more effective, 50 character accounts can still gain large amounts of AD from it and bots can farm it, on top of that it is really annoying having to switch characters so often for invoking, increase invoking rewards and make it account wide, and make invoking rewards bound to account - with account wide invoking there wouldnt be any need for it to be bound to character

goldmoon

Botters using multiple accounts.

So please, let's just stop thinking about bot issues, shall we?

banaanc

goldmoon#5670 said:

Botters using multiple accounts.



So please, let's just stop thinking about bot issues, shall we?

there arent many ways to stop commercial scale bots, but players having 50 characters and using/abusing invoking either manually or using bots can be seriously slowed down

Unknown

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rhoriangelus

Invoking is another one of those things that is REALLY easy to bot on 50 characters on 50 accounts, and you want to make it so that people get MORE out of it? That'll just result in everyone HAVING to make 50 characters and invoke them 6 times a day to get the amount of AD needed, just like Leadership.

However. I do kinda wish the stones from the invocation bag were BoA. I don't like having a million slots taken up by a million different refining stones most of my characters can't even use. However, I can live without this change, it would just be nice.

I feel like the better option would just be to make all refinement point items universal. No more specific stones for artifacts, for artifact gear, for enchants - just change them all to the equivalent universal stone of choice (peridots, aquamarines, so on) and stop filling our bags with 3 different bind-versions of stones with four different qualities that are specific to ONE particular kind of thing that you refine.

goldmoon

I really don't understand why you want to slow down those players.
To be fair, they have paid money for those slots. I have no problem if they gain more rewards than me.

And here again:
"There arent many ways to stop commercial scale bots".
So you are targeting players, again. I m afraid there will be less and less players after such changes.

You really want this game just dead, right?

ironzerg79

magenubbie said:

And make people earn even less AD per day.. Good call. Just what the game needed.

I would put this on my "If people feel like they need to X on 50 toons they never play to 'compete', then it needs to be changed" list.

What if invoking was changed to actually be a blessing? You could pray for a blessing of experience, or a blessing of battle, or a blessing of wealth.

Blessing of Experience would be a all tasks generate 2x experience for the next 30 minutes.

Bless of Battle would increase the damage you do for by 20% and reduce the damage you take by 20% for 30 minutes.

Blessing of Wealth would increase the drop rate of enchants, refining stones and RAD from all kills for the next 30 minutes.

Allow people to pray up to four times per day. When the day starts, then once every 30 minutes, then 60, then 90,

Making it so invoking is relevant to PLAYING the game, not cycling toons.

rhoriangelus

goldmoon#5670 said:

I really don't understand why you want to slow down those players.

To be fair, they have paid money for those slots. I have no problem if they gain more rewards than me.



And here again:

"There arent many ways to stop commercial scale bots".

So you are targeting players, again. I m afraid there will be less and less players after such changes.



You really want this game just dead, right?

You DO realize that the majority of people botting leadership WERE players, right? I mean, yeah, goldsellers were a big problem, but the much bigger problem was the thousands of people botting leadership for their own gain, because that is what pushed prices up for everyone else.

It was ridiculously easy to bot, and so tons of people did. And tons of people will bot invocation (in fact, I'd wager tons of them ARE botting invocation since it was changed). That is why AD generation was removed from Leadership, and that is why AD generation from invocation absolutely should not be increased.

goldmoon

@rhoriangelus

I joined this game at the end of mod 5,

"That is why AD generation was removed from Leadership, and that is why AD generation from invocation absolutely should not be increased"
Yes, but the leadership AD is exist for years, every single change from beginning is designed around those AD generation rate. (And i don't think the price will drop in a near future.)

And now it become a problem, after 2 years?

I have a friend sitting with 140 millions AD in game now, nerf invocation and leadership only kill my progress(luckily the patch released before I plan to buy slots:-D). You can even disable ad now, but rich stay rich.

rhoriangelus

It was a problem from day 1. It didn't suddenly become a problem after two years, they just didn't fix it, or underestimated just how big a problem it was and put it on the backburner for too long.

Yes, there are tons of people still sitting on a lot of ill-gotten AD, but that doesn't mean that steps shouldn't be taken to stop it. That's like a bank saying "Okay, we know people have been embezzling millions of dollars, but since it's been going on for so long and so many people were doing it, we feel it's not really right to punish them by stopping it now." That's just silly.

And yes, tons of AD sinks were put in place keeping in mind people were botting millions of AD a day, but they're changing the prices. Look at the GMOPs. They probably won't cut the prices all at once, no, but they're at least doing it. Just be patient and don't pay for any big AD sinks right now until it settles down.

oldbaldyone

At some point in time, you just have to put effort in to making the game more fun to play, rather than nit-pick each and every way to make AD in the game and fighting bots.

In the (slightly adjusted) words of Allen Iverson..."We talking about invoking. Invoking. Not the game I love. Not the game I shed blood sweat and tears for. We talking bout invoking...invoking."

ironzerg79

oldbaldyone said:

At some point in time, you just have to put effort in to making the game more fun to play, rather than nit-pick each and every way to make AD in the game and fighting bots.

Jordan fades back...SWOOSH...and that's the game. No further questions, your honor.

banaanc

magenubbie said:

And make people earn even less AD per day.. Good call. Just what the game needed.

that is why i wrote "increase the rewards" only ppl who have a ton of characters to abuse professions/leadership would lose, new players with few characters would gain from it, i think a good amount for invoking would be the old number of AD gained times number of available classes(8 atm) so new players would get a lot more ad income, RP rewards should be increased same way on top of being acc bound

as a result
1) new players gain more ad and can progress faster
2) 50 character accounts dont get as much advantage over ppl with less characters and dont inflate prices as much, adding to 1)
3) players dont have to waste time switching to all characters and invoking
4) you can add rewards to the character you like

its both quality of life change and makes it more fair for all, yes it would be a bit easier, but on that scale you can create 643089626 more accounts and that doesnt change that much, there are other ways to fight these bots

oldbaldyone

ironzerg79 said:

oldbaldyone said:

At some point in time, you just have to put effort in to making the game more fun to play, rather than nit-pick each and every way to make AD in the game and fighting bots.

Jordan fades back...SWOOSH...and that's the game. No further questions, your honor.

theycallmetomu

You know, if we just made the AD refining cap per account instead of per character, this would be a moot point.

After all, people can either do the tedium of running 20 dungeons, or the tedium of running 200 characters invoking, and it's all the same: they get the same RAD per day.

I have 4 toons I regularly invoke with. I'd be annoyed if I didn't get their individual bonuses on each of them.

plasticbat

ironzerg79 said:

magenubbie said:

And make people earn even less AD per day.. Good call. Just what the game needed.

I would put this on my "If people feel like they need to X on 50 toons they never play to 'compete', then it needs to be changed" list.

What if invoking was changed to actually be a blessing? You could pray for a blessing of experience, or a blessing of battle, or a blessing of wealth.

Blessing of Experience would be a all tasks generate 2x experience for the next 30 minutes.

Bless of Battle would increase the damage you do for by 20% and reduce the damage you take by 20% for 30 minutes.

Blessing of Wealth would increase the drop rate of enchants, refining stones and RAD from all kills for the next 30 minutes.

Allow people to pray up to four times per day. When the day starts, then once every 30 minutes, then 60, then 90,

Making it so invoking is relevant to PLAYING the game, not cycling toons.

In this case, just change back to before they decided to make only 6 invocations per day. Get a random blessing through invocation every 30 minutes and the blessing last for 15 minutes. Why does it need to limit to N times per day?

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theycallmetomu

I for one only ever log on to invoke, and to manage my sales of various items.

santralafax

rhoriangelus said:

stop filling our bags with 3 different bind-versions of stones with four different qualities that are specific to ONE particular kind of thing that you refine.

I think they like it like that, though. It slows character progress. BtC further keeps you from finishing things on your main faster. Just cause they sold you the slots doesn't mean they want them to be useful.

santralafax

rhoriangelus said:

You DO realize that the majority of people botting leadership WERE players, right? I mean, yeah, goldsellers were a big problem, but the much bigger problem was the thousands of people botting leadership for their own gain, because that is what pushed prices up for everyone else.

I don't think you have the full numbers to back that up. The game's market imploded because Everyone that does professions lost income with the changes they made. I had two characters. They lost 3/4 of their income in one fell swoop.

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ghoulz66

I say leave it alone. I'd rather spend 2 hours dealing with this HAMSTER on multiple alts for AD than rework it and make it completely unrewarding HAMSTER everybody over.

Besides, what does it matter? While I'm wasting all my time on this other people are just running dungeons. I can't even join in on runs half the time because I'm busy invoking. I'm not getting any more rich than other people...

santralafax

+1 for macjae

ironzerg79

ghoulz66 said:

IBesides, what does it matter? While I'm wasting all my time on this other people are just running dungeons. I can't even join in on runs half the time because I'm busy invoking. I'm not getting any more rich than other people...

What's the point, then? If you're concerned with a wealth building simulation, there's far, far better games to play than Neverwinter.

If you actually skip PLAYING the game to do something as banal as invoke on dozens of empty characters, then something is seriously wrong.

If invoking is stopping people from playing the game, then it needs to be removed all together and have those rewards wrapped into actually PLAYING the game.

klangeddin

I agree with this. One of the many aspects of the game that should be account-wise rather than character-wise.

theycallmetomu

Oh hey, can you recommend a decent wealth building simulation? :P

Personally, that's the part that appeals to me most-namely buying/selling things through the AH.

But when new content is out, I tend to like to run through it until I get to the grindey part. Mod 6 was terribad because of just how punishing and grindey the content was. Having to repeat vigilance quests as part of zone progression was all sorts of awful. Sharandar was much better-yes, you repeated the same quests over and over again, but at least that was staggered over a sufficiently long period of time.

At this point, I'm just waiting for mod 8.

ironzerg79

theycallmetomu said:

Oh hey, can you recommend a decent wealth building simulation?

Old, but great. Capitalism 2.

dufisto

ironzerg79 said:

What if invoking was changed to actually be a blessing? You could pray for a blessing of experience, or a blessing of battle, or a blessing of wealth.

hmmm, isnt that exactly what it is now? you get a small bit of xp, a small xp boost, a buff token and a small bit of ad. and some junk refining stones.

theycallmetomu

And some coupons occasionally.

regenerde

http://steamcharts.com/app/109600
i know that those numbers only show the Steam players, but take a good look at them. We're closing in on -18% player loss this months only.

Epic dungeon and skirmish runs i had the last few days, were rarely with a full group, some groups even disbanded mid run, while we did not get any reinforcement after a player left.

How much more obvious has it to become, that this game is losing players faster then ever...
And this is the direct result of removing more and more rewards from regular players.

But here we're again, arguing over just another cut into the players flesh...
And i'm really wondering by now, if some people want to turn NWO into a solo player game for them.

We need MORE rAD rewards and not less!
And BEFORE any nerf, there should be some MAJOR buffs!

First we need rAD rewarded by questing and playing the game, then we can talk about adjustments...

banaanc

macjae said:

Your second point is basically a gigantic f-u to players who've been with the game for a while. I agree that the system should be friendlier to newer players -- the changes to GMOP costs above all helps non-long term players a bit with climbing to mid-tier epic enchants more easily. However, they can implement changes in a way that they aren't at the expense of other players.

how many ppl have more than 8~10 characters, it would only be a big FU to the asshats who ruined leadership for everybody by running 10~50 characters

regenerde said:

http://steamcharts.com/app/109600
i know that those numbers only show the Steam players, but take a good look at them. We're closing in on -18% player loss this months only.

Epic dungeon and skirmish runs i had the last few days, were rarely with a full group, some groups even disbanded mid run, while we did not get any reinforcement after a player left.

How much more obvious has it to become, that this game is losing players faster then ever...
And this is the direct result of removing more and more rewards from regular players.

But here we're again, arguing over just another cut into the players flesh...
And i'm really wondering by now, if some people want to turn NWO into a solo player game for them.

We need MORE rAD rewards and not less!
And BEFORE any nerf, there should be some MAJOR buffs!

the way i suggested would INCREASE rewards for ppl with 1~7 characters, and reduce for ppl with 9~50 characters

we need new players and with all this artifact/boon etc bs its harder than ever for new players to start playing, giving them 8 character worth of rewards would be 1st step in getting them running, while not allowing 50character accounts inflate prices would help them even more