Suggestions to fix Leadership & Crafting

psyb3rtr011

Purpose:

Remove the influence of Bots and Leadership Armies, while allowing allowing those who invested much into Leadership as a means of advancing, and do not have the time to run multiple Dungeons, Skirmishes, etc every day to get them.

Restore a means to create some AD, and fix & improve all Crafts at the same time....

(I posted this and other similar ideas on separate threads, but the concept and reactions get drowned in the conversation.)

1) Limit the number of characters that an account could use to Craft. One per Character Class seems like a decent number, or 10 characters.

2) Make the Leadership Tasks that do reward AD, require Materials gained through Crafts (Like a couple EPIC's still do already with Marks of Gratitude. My thinking if far more advanced in concept. Imagine Every Craft being able to create items that can be used for Leadership Tasks that Reward AD.)

3) Crafts required for Leadership Tasks that reward AD, would be 20+ level items themselves (Though not those requiring AD, defeats the purpose.), that require several Sub-Crafts to achieve. (Think Armor, Weapons and Artificing for examples)

4) Make some Leadership Task reward Account Bound Vouchers that only help in Strongholds. (Assuming Strongholds will continue to adapt upward with new Mods, and these will be required indefinitely)

5) Make Leadership Tasks that reward AD require a Hero's, and Mithril Asset.

6) Make Leadership Tasks that reward AD have three Success Tiers for the rewards.

tripsofthrymr

Yes with Caveats. (Add caveats to discussion)

psyb3rtr011 said:

Make Leadership Tasks that reward AD require a Hero's, and Mithril Asset.

I did the math on the ROI (return on investment) period for buying an Adventurer. If you purchased one at the pre-nerf cost of around 150kAD, it would take you just less than a year of running a high-profit task non stop (which you cannot do without botting...), for almost a year.

I actually have lots of heroes because I purchased them during Open Beta / Module 1 times, but this is not economically feasible for new players.

psyb3rtr011 said:

Crafts required for Leadership Tasks that reward AD, would be 20+ level items themselves (Though not those requiring AD, defeats the purpose.), that require several Sub-Crafts to achieve. (Think Armor, Weapons and Artificing for examples)

Not unless they change the other professions to be rewarding in their own right. It would be silly to have to level up Artificing just to gain benefit from Leadership.

theycallmetomu

No

Adventurers don't depreciate. Assuming no change in the price level (HA!) you actually only need to get 10% of the purchasing price, because when you resell it, you get 90% of the sale price.

The problem, of course, is that thing I laughed about-the price of adventurers has tanked due to the AD nerf. But that's not an ROI issue so much as it's an asset value change issue.

Unknown

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psyb3rtr011

Yes

tripsofthrymr said:

psyb3rtr011 said:

Make Leadership Tasks that reward AD require a Hero's, and Mithril Asset.

I did the math on the ROI (return on investment) period for buying an Adventurer. If you purchased one at the pre-nerf cost of around 150kAD, it would take you just less than a year of running a high-profit task non stop (which you cannot do without botting...), for almost a year.

I actually have lots of heroes because I purchased them during Open Beta / Module 1 times, but this is not economically feasible for new players.

psyb3rtr011 said:

Crafts required for Leadership Tasks that reward AD, would be 20+ level items themselves (Though not those requiring AD, defeats the purpose.), that require several Sub-Crafts to achieve. (Think Armor, Weapons and Artificing for examples)

Not unless they change the other professions to be rewarding in their own right. It would be silly to have to level up Artificing just to gain benefit from Leadership.

I agree with you with regards ROI on Adventurers. Which is kind of why I am so pissed with the change.... That said, perhaps amending two of the 6 parts I mentioned above, that there could be three Tiers of rewards, based on the quality of the Leader and Assets. Green = 1 or 2 (60/40%), Blue = 2 or 3 (60/40%), Purple = 3 (100%)


With regards the other professions. You already have to get two others to 20th level to get all 9 tasks available. So every character should at least have two already to work with. My concept makes the other crafts rewarding in their own right. Especially if you implement a three Tier Quality potential that directly impacts the AD reward of the Leadership Task they are used in.

Thanks for the input. Appreciate it.

psyb3rtr011

Yes

theycallmetomu said:

Adventurers don't depreciate. Assuming no change in the price level (HA!) you actually only need to get 10% of the purchasing price, because when you resell it, you get 90% of the sale price.

The problem, of course, is that thing I laughed about-the price of adventurers has tanked due to the AD nerf. But that's not an ROI issue so much as it's an asset value change issue.

You assume someone resells the Adventurers, and doesn't use it to continue Leadership for Chests and RP's, or upgrade it.

Personally I have hope that they will be fixing Leadership in the near future, and all this dumping is providing those of us with long term outlooks, fire sale prices. :-D

suxip01111

Yes with Caveats. (Add caveats to discussion)

Interesting ideas, however I think a better way of rewarding those who have invested a lot into Leadership, without creating another botter's paradise would be this:

Some 24hr Leadership tasks reward (character bound) tokens that can be used to gain bonus AD from dungeons, skirmishes, foundry, or PvP.

This will bring AD back to Leadership without the botting, and will reward active players.

theycallmetomu

No

I'm not assuming you resell the adventurer. But if you're talking about your total wealth, you have to consider the opportunity to resell the adventurer as part of it, even if you don't ever actually resell it.

This is just basic accounting.

psyb3rtr011

Yes

clonkyo1 said:

Almost all crafts with 1 exception (jewelcrafting) need to be improved a lot and allow players to create "Near BiS gear", sets included, as it was when weaponsmithing allowed chars to craft "Fallen Dragon" weapons (in example) previous to mod 6.

Leadership needs to give some AD income, thats correct, but most AD income must come from "playing" the game, not from leadership "itself".

Leadership is playing the game, as much as is PvP, Skirmishing etc... Just another aspect for a different style of player.

Interesting you said no, despite obtusely addressing one of the same objectives, improving the other Crafts.

I agree, being able to create something useful for the Player is a good start, and it does exist with the Armor Reinforce crafts already. But once you have item "X", what do you get from them? After you have the Persoanlized Rings and Necklace from Jewelry, what do you make?

My recommendation above does just that, provides a reason to continue to use the Crafts.

theycallmetomu

No

I mostly voted no due to quibbling on some of the specifics, tbh.

While purple tools as a pre-req are one way to discourage bots (basically, any time you force bots to spend zen on something that's a win for Cryptic, because then they can ban the account and they have to spend zen on it again), I'm just skeptical as to whether that's a good way of handling things.

psyb3rtr011

Yes

suxip01111 said:

Interesting ideas, however I think a better way of rewarding those who have invested a lot into Leadership, without creating another botter's paradise would be this:

Some 24hr Leadership tasks reward (character bound) tokens that can be used to gain bonus AD from dungeons, skirmishes, foundry, or PvP.

This will bring AD back to Leadership without the botting, and will reward active players.

Interesting suggestion.. I could see this too.... I also like the 24 hour requirement. Perhaps make that a minimum, with a Single Hero, for any and all AD earning tasks. (You could go faster by using more Hero's, but at a cost to Quality by not having the Quality Assets to get the highest Tier.

Nice input.

psyb3rtr011

Yes

theycallmetomu said:

I mostly voted no due to quibbling on some of the specifics, tbh.

While purple tools as a pre-req are one way to discourage bots (basically, any time you force bots to spend zen on something that's a win for Cryptic, because then they can ban the account and they have to spend zen on it again), I'm just skeptical as to whether that's a good way of handling things.

That was why I had "Yes with caveats." :-(

theycallmetomu

No

Well the other thing is, they're just not going to bring AD back into leadership. That's pretty much a done deal. We can discuss whether it'd be a good or a bad thing, but the Guys Upstairs™ would reject any such proposal out of hand.

feanor70118

No

psyb3rtr011 said:

Purpose:

Remove the influence of Bots and Leadership Armies, while allowing allowing those who invested much into Leadership as a means of advancing, and do not have the time to run multiple Dungeons, Skirmishes, etc every day to get them.

Restore a means to create some AD, and fix & improve all Crafts at the same time....

(I posted this and other similar ideas on separate threads, but the concept and reactions get drowned in the conversation.)

1) Limit the number of characters that an account could use to Craft. One per Character Class seems like a decent number, or 10 characters.

No. Professions give us a use for characters that we no longer feel like playing. I have at least one in every class because I want to 1) know if I liked playing each 2) Know how to deal with them in pvp. The time put into learning and leveling should still pay dividends.

psyb3rtr011 said:

Purpose:
2) Make the Leadership Tasks that do reward AD, require Materials gained through Crafts (Like a couple EPIC's still do already with Marks of Gratitude. My thinking if far more advanced in concept. Imagine Every Craft being able to create items that can be used for Leadership Tasks that Reward AD.)

Well, if they'd been honest about leaving the rare tasks alone, that's what we'd have.

psyb3rtr011 said:

3) Crafts required for Leadership Tasks that reward AD, would be 20+ level items themselves (Though not those requiring AD, defeats the purpose.), that require several Sub-Crafts to achieve. (Think Armor, Weapons and Artificing for examples)

No. Leveling leadership is already mind-numbingly slow. Slowing the process further by involving other professions is a step in the wrong direction.

psyb3rtr011 said:

4) Make some Leadership Task reward Account Bound Vouchers that only help in Strongholds. (Assuming Strongholds will continue to adapt upward with new Mods, and these will be required indefinitely)

Vouchers should be more than bound, they should be a currency to stop taking up our bag space. Otherwise a good idea.

psyb3rtr011 said:

5) Make Leadership Tasks that reward AD require a Hero's, and Mithril Asset.

Absolutely not. We've already invested all we should have to in it. Why screw it up even further?

psyb3rtr011 said:

6) Make Leadership Tasks that reward AD have three Success Tiers for the rewards.

HELL, NO. The RNG in this game is already one of its main problems. A task is a task is a task. The rewards should be uniform.

psyb3rtr011

Yes

theycallmetomu said:

Well the other thing is, they're just not going to bring AD back into leadership. That's pretty much a done deal. We can discuss whether it'd be a good or a bad thing, but the Guys Upstairs™ would reject any such proposal out of hand.

I am not so sure of that. My suspicion, is that they are going to redo Crafting, and eventually add it back in, in a limited fashion. They left some of them in for a reason. That is why suggestions on how to prevent the Bots and reduce the Armies influence, and yet, still provide the casual gamer who enjoys that aspect of the game to participate and contribute, are important.

Thus this thread.

psyb3rtr011

Yes

No. Professions give us a use for characters that we no longer feel like playing. I have at least one in every class because I want to 1) know if I liked playing each 2) Know how to deal with them in pvp. The time put into learning and leveling should still pay dividends.


That is your definition of their use. Some of us have different definitions and purposes.

However, I agree, the time put into learning and leveling should still pay dividends, which is why I want Crafting to have a purpose.

Which is also why I stated to limit the number that can participate in Crafting to one per Class. (Or 10) to limit the influence of the Leadership Armies.



Well, if they'd been honest about leaving the rare tasks alone, that's what we'd have.

They did leave a couple... Ones that take several other Leadership Tasks to accomplish, and you have to wait for the Epic for One Prerequisite, and another for the one with AD..

My concept is similar, but involves all the other Crafts, and not just Leadership, which would provide a purpose for the others, and at the same time:

1) Limit the number of times a day a AD awarding tasks is able to be accomplished.
2) Severely complicate the possibility of Botters to manipulate the system.



No. Leveling leadership is already mind-numbingly slow. Slowing the process further by involving other professions is a step in the wrong direction.

Who says anything about slowing the leveling of Leadership. You are injecting something into this discussion that is not intended or proposed. All this proposal would do is limit the amount of AD you can get per day from Leadership, while making the other Crafts (Two of which you need to max to get extra Leadership tasks a day as it already is.) viable. Plus the above purposes with regards Botters and Armies...



Vouchers should be more than bound, they should be a currency to stop taking up our bag space. Otherwise a good idea.

OK, they are already stackable, so not much of an issue. But I could accept them being yet another currency that eventually is useless.



Absolutely not. We've already invested all we should have to in it. Why **** it up even further?

and

HELL, NO. The RNG in this game is already one of its main problems. A task is a task is a task. The rewards should be uniform.

Just trying to provide a purpose for the quality Assets for each craft, especially Leadership, using existing Crafting processes.

I could see separate Crafts for Green, Blue and Purple, as already exists for Mercenary, Guards and Footmen at the lower levels.. We are talking 20th level plus tasks here, so most will have some of these assets on hand already.

Heck, you mention above that if they had left the Epics that gave AD in place, it would be fine. My proposal does not require having to wait for an Epic (Pet peeve when I was making the Piercing Rings and Necklace in Jeweler), but just having all the required materials, from other classes available, to proceed.


So, in conclusion, it appears as you, like the other poster above, said no, but really said "Yes with Caveats." I can accept that.