test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Stronghold Siege PVP [FEEDBACK] The 3 Major issues with Siege PVP that is ruining it for everyone...
ayroux
Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
Title aside, I want to start on a positive note by saying thanks for the hard work on this content, I have been playing siege PVP and definitely see alot of potential! As someone whose guild hasnt lost a match (to my knowledge thus far) and from someone who has THREE lionsmaine PVP gear already (already elemental too) I have played this ALOT and see major issues that plague the gametype.
Posting this at the beginning and END of the post:
TL:DR
1) Increase rewards. Decrease HP of Strongholds for a better rewards/time.
2) NPC waves spawn to "recapture" depots/resilience buff? For better team balance.
3) Reduce team size to 15. For less latency/lag and better team balance.
For the FULL explaination see this:
1) The lack of rewards for the time it takes in this game, after you farm the PVP gear.
Another issue I see that will KILL the population doing this event. JUST LIKE OPEN WORLD! There are no rewards... Once a guild or a player has the PVP gear, why would they go spend 30 minutes in this match. MOST of the time when an opposing team sees its our guild, they AFK in spawn or leave the game. A leaver penalty would only make it worse and players wouldnt even Que up. The ISSUE is lack of rewards. We dont get glory (nor do we really need it I guess since gear doesnt cost it) but the rewards should be ATLEAST on par with the DragonFlight event (takes 10 minutes max). Why do we not get good vouchers? I open all the "Strongboxes" and do get SOME vouchers, but nothing to make it worth my while... I can easily go farm other things which would pay MUCH more than stronghold PVP. Once players have their gear, noone will want to do SH pvp....
Another aspect of this is the TIME it takes to play a full game. While on paper it may not seem like much (20-30 minutes) but when you are getting completely smashed its no fun.... So something I would actually encourage you to consider:
SUGGESTION: reduce the STARTING HP to 3,000. An additional 10 supplies can be added to the coffer to boost HP by 1,000 (back to 4,000 initially). Going to 6k is ALOT. Also another thing to consider would be doubling the nubmer of supplies needed from 10 to 20. currently an extra 2k for just 10 supplies is pretty lame.... Making it cost 20 supplies for another 1,000 HP seems maybe more reasonable? Or atleast 10 for 1,000.
2) Team Imbalance:
This is VERY apparent. In fact, I have only been in ONE "close" match and it was by our own design! We tested what would happen if we gave them "mid lane" for free uncontested and we ended up winning with over 3k HP (we didnt even boost the SH HP with supplies meaning they did only about 800 damage total to our SH! with a FREE lane!)
I have also Solo-Qd and have both won and lost by a LARGE margin... I have not been in ONE game where its been a "close" match!
Now this could be approached from MANY different avenues however most of which would require alot of time and effort. As much as I hate to say this, I really think the BEST option for the game would be two fold.
FIRST: this may be difficult to explain in text, but its what MOBAs have which make some great sense. NPC "waves". How this would/should/could work here is if a supply depot is owned on an enemy side of the field, the stronghold spawns a group of "guards" that are sent to try and recapture their taken depot. These NPCs would allow an imbalanced match, to have a chance to recapture their "home" depots with those NPC reinforcements. So taking and holding an enemy depot on their side of the field requires work PLUS "defense" not just from players but from NPCs attacking! These "waves" could spawn every 30 seconds - 1 minute (or maybe when the others are destroyed). But what this does is "even" the playing field for uncoordinated players. Rather than try and go up against a MAJOR known guild, they can band together with NPC reinforcements and conquor back their depot stopping the progression and giving them a fighting chance! With increased rewards as well, even for the losing team, it would be something fun to do!
SECOND: You need to give a "tenacity" type buff (like the old GG system) maybe it was called a resilience buff? But a BUFF to the opposing team based on the number of "depots" owned. Something LIKE if a team has LESS than half of the depots owned, they get a slight buff to survivability (meaning they only own 2 or less of the 6 slots). This doesnt have to be much, even a 10% reduction in damage + 10% more damage would be sufficient.
Even just ONE of these would balance teams more and provide a slight edge to a losing team (maybe enough to warrant fighting back) when ALSO taking into account my SECOND point here (increasing rewards across the board to make it worthy of the time + effort). These are just ideas.
3) and finally, the lag/rubberbanding.
A GENIUS option to consider here would be to REDUCE the number of players to 15 on each side. This provides "1 party per lane" if that makes sense. I think 20vs20 is overkill and causes lag issues. a 15 vs 15 would honestly be much more appealing. I still would put a level of restriction on how many players you can take into it as a full "premade" as to balance the teams... With this solution as well, the NPCs would actually be tougher to handle as well. I think this would make for a MUCH better game all around (Rewards + NPCs for balance + less player size for latency and balance too).
Another aspect of this issue may be a much more difficult thing to address since it involves class mechanics, the size of the map. But its pretty insane and honestly not even really 'playable".... Some of the cuplrits are Paladins and Warlocks, all of the little additive things (an example being auras dealing damage with each hit) or another are things like Knights Valor on GFs - all of the things that put strain on the servers are PAINFULLY apparent in strongholds. Maybe even to the point that if you DID impliment my first three points here, it still might not be enjoyable for people because the sheer lag... I dont know the solution there without some rework on classes/animations but an investment in better hardware or something may be warranted there, you guys know more than I do since I am not an expert on this by any means, but everyone will agree its PAINFULLY obvious the lag and rubberbanding is BRUTAL!
TL:DR
1) Increase rewards. Decrease HP of Strongholds for a better rewards/time.
2) NPC waves spawn to "recapture" depots/resilience buff? For better team balance.
3) Reduce team size to 15. For less latency/lag and better team balance.
Posting this at the beginning and END of the post:
TL:DR
1) Increase rewards. Decrease HP of Strongholds for a better rewards/time.
2) NPC waves spawn to "recapture" depots/resilience buff? For better team balance.
3) Reduce team size to 15. For less latency/lag and better team balance.
For the FULL explaination see this:
1) The lack of rewards for the time it takes in this game, after you farm the PVP gear.
Another issue I see that will KILL the population doing this event. JUST LIKE OPEN WORLD! There are no rewards... Once a guild or a player has the PVP gear, why would they go spend 30 minutes in this match. MOST of the time when an opposing team sees its our guild, they AFK in spawn or leave the game. A leaver penalty would only make it worse and players wouldnt even Que up. The ISSUE is lack of rewards. We dont get glory (nor do we really need it I guess since gear doesnt cost it) but the rewards should be ATLEAST on par with the DragonFlight event (takes 10 minutes max). Why do we not get good vouchers? I open all the "Strongboxes" and do get SOME vouchers, but nothing to make it worth my while... I can easily go farm other things which would pay MUCH more than stronghold PVP. Once players have their gear, noone will want to do SH pvp....
Another aspect of this is the TIME it takes to play a full game. While on paper it may not seem like much (20-30 minutes) but when you are getting completely smashed its no fun.... So something I would actually encourage you to consider:
SUGGESTION: reduce the STARTING HP to 3,000. An additional 10 supplies can be added to the coffer to boost HP by 1,000 (back to 4,000 initially). Going to 6k is ALOT. Also another thing to consider would be doubling the nubmer of supplies needed from 10 to 20. currently an extra 2k for just 10 supplies is pretty lame.... Making it cost 20 supplies for another 1,000 HP seems maybe more reasonable? Or atleast 10 for 1,000.
2) Team Imbalance:
This is VERY apparent. In fact, I have only been in ONE "close" match and it was by our own design! We tested what would happen if we gave them "mid lane" for free uncontested and we ended up winning with over 3k HP (we didnt even boost the SH HP with supplies meaning they did only about 800 damage total to our SH! with a FREE lane!)
I have also Solo-Qd and have both won and lost by a LARGE margin... I have not been in ONE game where its been a "close" match!
Now this could be approached from MANY different avenues however most of which would require alot of time and effort. As much as I hate to say this, I really think the BEST option for the game would be two fold.
FIRST: this may be difficult to explain in text, but its what MOBAs have which make some great sense. NPC "waves". How this would/should/could work here is if a supply depot is owned on an enemy side of the field, the stronghold spawns a group of "guards" that are sent to try and recapture their taken depot. These NPCs would allow an imbalanced match, to have a chance to recapture their "home" depots with those NPC reinforcements. So taking and holding an enemy depot on their side of the field requires work PLUS "defense" not just from players but from NPCs attacking! These "waves" could spawn every 30 seconds - 1 minute (or maybe when the others are destroyed). But what this does is "even" the playing field for uncoordinated players. Rather than try and go up against a MAJOR known guild, they can band together with NPC reinforcements and conquor back their depot stopping the progression and giving them a fighting chance! With increased rewards as well, even for the losing team, it would be something fun to do!
SECOND: You need to give a "tenacity" type buff (like the old GG system) maybe it was called a resilience buff? But a BUFF to the opposing team based on the number of "depots" owned. Something LIKE if a team has LESS than half of the depots owned, they get a slight buff to survivability (meaning they only own 2 or less of the 6 slots). This doesnt have to be much, even a 10% reduction in damage + 10% more damage would be sufficient.
Even just ONE of these would balance teams more and provide a slight edge to a losing team (maybe enough to warrant fighting back) when ALSO taking into account my SECOND point here (increasing rewards across the board to make it worthy of the time + effort). These are just ideas.
3) and finally, the lag/rubberbanding.
A GENIUS option to consider here would be to REDUCE the number of players to 15 on each side. This provides "1 party per lane" if that makes sense. I think 20vs20 is overkill and causes lag issues. a 15 vs 15 would honestly be much more appealing. I still would put a level of restriction on how many players you can take into it as a full "premade" as to balance the teams... With this solution as well, the NPCs would actually be tougher to handle as well. I think this would make for a MUCH better game all around (Rewards + NPCs for balance + less player size for latency and balance too).
Another aspect of this issue may be a much more difficult thing to address since it involves class mechanics, the size of the map. But its pretty insane and honestly not even really 'playable".... Some of the cuplrits are Paladins and Warlocks, all of the little additive things (an example being auras dealing damage with each hit) or another are things like Knights Valor on GFs - all of the things that put strain on the servers are PAINFULLY apparent in strongholds. Maybe even to the point that if you DID impliment my first three points here, it still might not be enjoyable for people because the sheer lag... I dont know the solution there without some rework on classes/animations but an investment in better hardware or something may be warranted there, you guys know more than I do since I am not an expert on this by any means, but everyone will agree its PAINFULLY obvious the lag and rubberbanding is BRUTAL!
TL:DR
1) Increase rewards. Decrease HP of Strongholds for a better rewards/time.
2) NPC waves spawn to "recapture" depots/resilience buff? For better team balance.
3) Reduce team size to 15. For less latency/lag and better team balance.
Post edited by ayroux on
Tagged:
0
Comments
It also has zero bearing on the ability to farm gear, as I said we dont even leave spawn and itll be 20v10 because people just quit rather than play...
So the matches arent even "sped up" with the influx of more supplies. In fact its created LONGER games since its very common to have an opponent pre-feed their SH to get 6k HP! So if anything this only makes games LONGER since you have to do 50% more damage to a SH...
Its also not hard to farm the PVP gear at all. You get 5 banners per win (if you open the strongbox), each piece is 24 banners aside from the chest (36). 5 games per piece? even at 30 minute games thats only about 7 hours of playtime.............. for 3 pieces.
You need 108 total for the FULL set, which even at 30 minute games is 11 hours........ So if you took the day off from work and farmed for a day with a guild congrats you have full PVP gear.....
so you think anybody with sense mind will open these lockboxes? spend their rare AD for this? No way
anyway it explain why first matches were so ungodly long and laters matches so quick. with bugged enchants on top. nice tricks from our precious exploiters guilds
and if you DO get the keys, you get HAMSTER banners which you cant even use unless your guild already has market level 4 which is only reachable by large guilds or medium guilds with a bunch of cash shoppers in it.
Ive reported this issue over and over and over... Nothing is being done about it...
Also the new lockboxes are a joke, if you are VIP rank 1 you get a key per day. So far ive gotten literally zero value out of 20-30+ boxes opened. This box is literally the WORST box by far...
THe first match I experienced I solo Qd and the other guild boosted their HP to 6k before the game started, then facerolled the team I was on... They had catapults up and hitting our SH before our team even knew what a catapult was...
Games are shorter now because people just AFK or leave... ALmost every match I did yesterday ended with <10 players on the opposing side. People are not rewarded for playing, not rewarded for a LONG game like this and there is no leaver penalty. If there was I almost guarantee people woudlnt even log into play it because the time required + communication required to be competitive + the rewards are not worth it.
As to the rank 4 market, yeah this module was clearly intended to force smaller guilds to have to merge or "partner" with larger guilds to get access, or just wait...
on the other hand if my team will be overwhelmed by enemy i just camp to the end too, there is no point to try harder and harder, it only prolonged hopeless fight. I was highly positioned on tableboard in match we loose but i get only box and no banner anyway so there is really no point...
The problem is they did nothing to curb 1 sided games, also they didnt really give any GOOD rewards to begin with!
You are feeling case and point what I am describing here, they need to balance games more. The only way to obviously do that without overhauling is to limit the "premade" numbers you can bring into each game.
I think a 10 person match is fair, we did 1x 10 person game (meaning 10 from our guild) and the rest were PUGs and it actually was much more complicated AND FUN!
This is going to suffer from the EXACT same thing that open world does.
Takes too much time, too much coordination, and there are no rewards.
I was expecting much more reason to play the new PVP other than the gear, but they didnt introduce anything....
They did have player testers. In fact they had a lot of them. They only scheduled 5 or 6 events... or once a week for a month, then 2 in late July... when there were promises made for all of us to help. The events happened when it was good and convenient for the Devs in PST. Unless a European player wanted to stay up late or wake up early they were not able to help. Those, who's schedules did not permit them to play, save for a couple chances... sat loading and patching for hours. The patch could not be pre-loaded because they did not open the server until the event started.
This is what they wanted... are we the beta test for Xbox?
Also, edited the OP, looks like they fixed the mailing supplies issue (YAY!) this patch. So thats atleast a BIG positive sign!
Changes a few things, this thread sparked discussion in game. GREAT ideas were to drop the # of players per team to 15 vs 15.
Another was to add "NPC" waves that try to "recapture" their "home depots" allowing for PUG teams to rally behind NPCs for a fighting chance against a full premade.
I mean we have been asking for YEARS for another domination map. I cant be THAT Hard to make one either.... Yet we dont have 1 yet.
Also the NCL was something that was HUGE for stirring up PVP... Where did that go? Besides matchmaking issues that was AWESOME! There had already been talks about adjusting matchmaking to offer TWO ques: Solo Q and Premade Que with nothing in between.... Why dont they do that?
Also, what about the 3v3 death match that ALMOST came out with mod 6. I played it, it was AWESOME! Was nearly finished too until they "parked it".....
All those honestly would have probably done more for population than SH PVP.... ANd SH PVP isnt bad, its just not GREAT... I dont see myself playing it all that much after getting the pvp gear since the time/rewards dont really do much... If LUCKY youll get 1 epic voucher from the "Pack" you get from winning.... Well I can just go do the dragon event which requires less players, less coordination and less time commitment and get more reward... They both have a "cost" Dragons is a bell, the SH PVP is a key... Dragons gives more, takes less....
theres absolutly no reason to play SH pvp at the moment 0 rewards and you have over 1000 days of grinding ad to gear a char now so dont waste time in something that gives no real resources bar some random coffer tokens
Losing team should get a Blue Voucher + less glory(scaled on score) + Banner(only if close match)+ Strongbox.
Now its profitable for everyone!
Paladins need some serious work....
Speaking of PvP lately. is there some GF bug where they can double daily? is it reported? I've had it happen to me a few times lately and I've checked ACT too confirm its not just a graphical glitch
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,