AP Gain

tommybostic

Im sure all of you fellow DCs know this stupid build for AP Gain, with gift of haste etc. It was/is bugged, so my question is - is it still? Or they fixed it already and it's working as it should? Anyone tested? I saw some clerics run with it and it seems to be bugged still, I don't think it should give daily every 5 or less seconds... not intentionally...

dfnce

Bug which caused instant daily fill had been fixed. It wasn't 5 seconds, but instant.

Getting full AP in 5 seconds - nothing special nowadays considering existing power creep in game and you don't need AP cleric for this.

rapo973

I'm one of the guys with the stupid build for AP Gain.
I cast a daily intentionally every 5 seconds thanks to the +92% AP gain of my stupid build in combination with gift of haste. And I'm not bugged.
The "build" word suggests the fact that some players are (oh look, the same word) building their clerics to maximize this feature.
There are classes which are able to maximize dps or damage resistance: some clerics maximize the AP gain.
And this choice is not for free: it requires a carefull selection of stats, armor set, companions, artifacts, passives, powers and talents whereas you've to give away any chance to have some dps.

tommybostic

Yes but what I meant is that daily for yourself every 5 or less seconds is not that bad, but when you spam HoTs and give those dailies to your team all the time (I still believe it's not working as it should combined with gift of haste) it looks just bugged.

Do you PvP? Have you seen teams with 2 CWs who spam oppressive every 3 sec one by one? Yes, goodluck with that.

dfnce

So basically you asking for nerf of quite important feature of cleric

What happens in pvp, should stay in pvp. If CW with OF are so OP, try make some constructive suggestion in CW forum. They certainly tell you they need buff.

tommybostic

I didnt say CW with OF are OP... I said when they have ap gain DC around, so they can spam it all the time.

And yes it is important and I love the idea of Gift of Haste,actually. I just think it gives WAY too much Action Points, more than should

rapo973

tommybostic said:

Yes but what I meant is that daily for yourself every 5 or less seconds is not that bad, but when you spam HoTs and give those dailies to your team all the time (I still believe it's not working as it should combined with gift of haste) it looks just bugged.

That's the point. In order to provide such amount of AP, I've to put all the HoT powers on, even when the team doesn't need heals. The cleric is limited to be a pure AP spammer: important but nothing more. With such a kind of setup, the buff\debuff power is poor and I don't use all the features of the clerics.
My experience shows that as soon as the level of the team increase, the AP gain can be reduced: increasing the damage buff is more effective.

tommybostic said:

Do you PvP? Have you seen teams with 2 CWs who spam oppressive every 3 sec one by one? Yes, goodluck with that.

I do. Have you seen just 1 OP supported by an AP cleric? The CWs can spam oppressive for hours without killing anyone. BTW, experienced PVP players know that the cleric is the first one to be killed: have you ever played as a cleric against pro PVP players?
The problem is that the balance of the classes and the PVP mechanic are broken and the AP gain has nothing to do with it.

putzboy78

simple solution, don't go into pvp. It's a waist land anyhow.

rapo973 said:

My experience shows that as soon as the level of the team increase, the AP gain can be reduced: increasing the damage buff is more effective.

Yes with the purple snail giving massive ap boost to everyone. The need to be full ap gain is going down. Also the more geared your party is, the less heals everyone needs.

The buff/debuff cleric will be king in the end

bitt3rnightmar3

Hi I'm one of those 'stupid' AP clerics. I could just heal the party with Crit heals from my passive capstone that virtuous gives me and with anointed holy symbol- sure. I do that during Heroic Encounters. I don't use hastening light..

What do you suggest for me to not be 'stupid' anymore?

My set up might be changing soon to allow me to take off one of my heals. I'm thinking Forgemaster's Flame or Break the Spirit. Which one seems to work better for you healers who are supporting DPS mowing through dungeons?

putzboy78

Break the Spirit

rapo973

Empowered break the spirit defenitely

tommybostic

And btw by this topic I didnt want people to explain how cool and needed AP Gain build is ,I simply asked if anyone actually TESTED it with ACT, to see if Gift of Haste works properly atm.

Anyone?

rapo973

The ACT requirement is new..
I don't even know if AP gain can be reported via ACT.
You can do it on your own when you play with a cleric: why asking?

lupisu

ACT does show GoF procs, as "Power Replenish". It doesn't, however, give out any indication as to what procs it. The question of whether "the thing that I don't know how to reproduce, or if it it even exists, but am claiming is a bug" is still there is thus a bit hard to answer.

The best I can tell you, from a seat of my pants guess, is that something seems to interact with it in regards to dots. That said numerous logs from dungeon runs show nothing alarming in regards to it's proc rate. Other than the fact it's to hit ratio is 50% that is.

benistvan

rapo973 said:

The ACT requirement is new..
I don't even know if AP gain can be reported via ACT.
You can do it on your own when you play with a cleric: why asking?

It can be monitored with ACT.

schietindebux

So these clerics in PVP, even poor eqipped ones, that refill your AP in 3 seconds making you spam Dailies are WAI?
Feels buggy for me, no AP gain can do so, it has to be an interaction from some feats and hots/dots

rapo973

schietindebux said:

So these clerics in PVP, even poor eqipped ones, that refill your AP in 3 seconds making you spam Dailies are WAI?

Feels buggy for me, no AP gain can do so, it has to be an interaction from some feats and hots/dots

Unless you have a clear evidence and proof of what you're saying (numbers, stats, etc), it's not a bug. I don't support any statement based on "feelings".
AP gain is generated by the right path, the right talents and the right encounter powers: it's equipment indipendent. That's why an AP cleric, even with low IL, is loved in Tiamat. The cleric is the worst class to be evaluated via IL only.
There's a strong interaction with GF: both cleric and GF can trigger AP gain with the right builds.
The idea that the AP gain is IL dependent shows how poor is the knowledge about the cleric.

Following your approach, I feel buggy in PVP:
- perma TR stealth
- perma HR root
- perma OP bubble
- overpowered GWF
- overpower enchantments (stamina drain)
...and I can go on forever, but only a few of them are real bugs.

schietindebux said:

"no AP gain can do so":

why? who say so? feelings?
You say that the cleric AP gain is too much; if it was true, I would like to have fixed all the things I feel buggy.

schietindebux

Since i play a cleric and chose gift if haste I know that AP gain is good that state
But some clerics I met in PVP made me spam dailies continously, so in case I stay on the node and do nothing else than press 2-2-2-2 does indeed feel a bit strange if AP is refilled in no time, like the fixed bug at begin of mod 6
Please do not come up with prove etc., prove that it did not, omg
it just happens rarely, and in case nothing compareable did ever happen to you only tells me that you do not participate in PVP or don't know yourself what triggers such thing
I do not say anything about nerf or bug, only mentioned there might be interactions you do not know as me obviously
Only a DC and a warlock at node, noone else

rapo973

schietindebux said:

Since i play a cleric and chose gift if haste I know that AP gain is good that state

But some clerics I met in PVP made me spam dailies continously, so in case I stay on the node and do nothing else than press 2-2-2-2 does indeed feel a bit strange if AP is refilled in no time, like the fixed bug at begin of mod 6

Please do not come up with prove etc., prove that it did not, omg

it just happens rarely, and in case nothing compareable did ever happen to you only tells me that you do not participate in PVP or don't know yourself what triggers such thing

I do not say anything about nerf or bug, only mentioned there might be interactions you do not know as me obviously

Only a DC and a warlock at node, noone else

Ok, got the point. We're talking about two different things.
My statements refer to the normal and legit gift of haste (as per the title of this discussion) and I had the impression that this is still considered as a "bug". I become quite nervous everytime this is reported a bug, because this is not.
On the other hand, someone told me that an "AP bug" still exists and its behavior is like that one fixed at the beginning of mod 6.The guy who reported me that, also told me that this bug is kept as a "secret" by few players who know it....and it's easy to understand why. I've never met a cleric using it in the last months so I've tagged this story as "legend".
So...no, I don't have direct experience about it.
The bug fixed at the beggining of mod 6 was generated by the interaction of hastening light and the off-hand boons: I cannot tell if this one is of the same nature.

mamalion1234

schietindebux said:

Since i play a cleric and chose gift if haste I know that AP gain is good that state

But some clerics I met in PVP made me spam dailies continously, so in case I stay on the node and do nothing else than press 2-2-2-2 does indeed feel a bit strange if AP is refilled in no time, like the fixed bug at begin of mod 6

Please do not come up with prove etc., prove that it did not, omg

it just happens rarely, and in case nothing compareable did ever happen to you only tells me that you do not participate in PVP or don't know yourself what triggers such thing

I do not say anything about nerf or bug, only mentioned there might be interactions you do not know as me obviously

Only a DC and a warlock at node, noone else

exactly as you said when you are on the node with that cleric. but what happens if they hit the cleric instead you? 1. virtuous shield of the divine heal overtime doesnt give gift of haste procs on the cleric. 2. if the enemies doesnt hit the ally doesnt get heal overtime so doesnt get gift of haste procs =doestn get ap. 3. YOU push away the ally or the cleric shield of the divine stops give ap.
So what do you want here? nerf the real cleric which need to be near to his pt or the lie faithfull gift of faith from the other side of the map? OR the other lie ? allies have on them gift of faith and gift of haste works on faithfull? how this is possible? heal overtime powers when you have gift of faith are not anymore heal overtime.

schietindebux

Since most of your comments, mammalion, are pointless and the sense is allways hidden, if there is any sense,
just look up for the thread DC AP bug PVP
Read it and try to understand it
and yes I do know that faithfull schould not work with AP gain, except devine SB and DG normal mode them are DOTS...
and yes AP gain is probably WAI except some BUGS that obviously rely on interactions between feat/boons and GoH


so anyone that wants to say GoH works as intended, yes it does in most aspects ---> as far as I know and use it
but even there are questions left because an OP wrote that: " GoH procced at green dragon aura endlessly", even not using any power or spell, only standing beside the dragon for minutes with his DC pal, endless procs ?
Most comments are only recitating the already known aspects of that feat, and are made by player who doesn´t have eyes nor ears, allways repeating GoH is WAI omg

Example: take warlocks puppet and go to a testdummy, the puppet deals 12k hits not more , same going solo not more never
Running inside a dungeon it gets buffed heavily and deals up to 2-3 mio spikedamage running ammok, so its bugged?
Following most argumentations in this threat and the "DC AP BUG" thread it is not bugged, no, its WAI....
The interaction with other classes is bugged, the buffs and the mechanic behind it is bugged, but the puppet?
No