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Enchantment drops need updating.

drkbodhidrkbodhi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
edited September 2015 in Player Feedback (PC)
Seriously... how many of us have close to 100 or over 100 r5s?

Isn't it time to start dropping r6s and r7s in the new 70 ONLY zones? Getting one r5 from killing 2 Beholders, 2 Pit Fiends or 1 million orcs is sheer BS.​​
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Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
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Post edited by drkbodhi on
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    mafoi1515mafoi1515 Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    Stronghold "rewards", some HE´s drop nice salvage items, but as OP here mention -Rank5´s x1 is joke.

    ...but if any rewards became better then it follows excessive farming and rewards are then nerfed again, human nature...
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    asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    They should upgrade dungeon boss drops. The loot from an epic HE is better, then from eCC, eSpider etc.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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    rhoriangelusrhoriangelus Member Posts: 703 Arc User
    There's a problem with Strongholds HE drops right now, IIRC. To fix the problem of people not being awarded influence, they did a 'quick fix' that unfortunately made the drops much worse, because not getting influence for completing HEs was considered the bigger problem.

    Anyway. I do agree that they should bump up to R6s, at least for HE rewards. Maybe R7s for 'big' HEs.
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    mmm1001mmm1001 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 497 Arc User
    The problem with "good rewards from Stronghold HEs" is that they (HEs) are too easy.
    Team of 2-3 good players can do each one of these within 1-2 min (I personaly can do 3/5 alone and there are much stronger players). As result 2 teams - one north and one south can farm big HEs quite efficiently - new one spawns almost immediately after finishing current one, but in most of the time - on opposite side of map.
    Cryptic doesn't like us to farm anything, we have to buy it if we need it.
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    mmm1001mmm1001 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 497 Arc User
    asterotg said:

    They should upgrade dungeon boss drops. The loot from an epic HE is better, then from eCC, eSpider etc.

    Drop in epic dungeons is OK, but it looks like it is somehow tied to participation - e..g with my GWF i get drops more often that with OP, even if OP is much more useful.
    There is a bug in ECC dungeon and bosses sometimes don't drop seals, even if kill them in dumb brute-force way, instead of using some tactics :smile:
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    drkbodhidrkbodhi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
    LOL... 3 of us... took out Devils in 45 seconds. I have solo'd Lake Supplies, Beasts, Devils, Spiders and Docks in under 3 minutes. 2 of us took out Lake in less than 2 minutes.

    There are 3 ranks of HEs in SH. I do not mind r5's dropping from the simple solo HE's but the other should go up one ranking per level of difficulty.

    Beholder's and Pit Fiends... 1 or 2 r7's should drop... minimum.
    The Crises and Kidnappings... 1 or 2 r6's minimum.
    all other a couple of r5's... minimum.
    No refinement stones drop from these HE's but drop from every other HE.

    Then we get to the newly 70 ONLY areas...
    Shar and DR... r5's all the way.
    WoD and IWD... r6's to r7's.​​
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    Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
    Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
    SYNERGY Alliance
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    sabre10sabre10 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Tbh they should do a clean sweep through the entire game to update drops and rewards.
    Ideally the sort of person making those decisions shouldn't be the type that needs a crowbar to open their wallet. That said, they shouldn't be too generous either.
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    wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    we need few things the most.

    1. Coalenscene Wards
    2. Greater Mark of Potency
    3. Companion Tokens

    also "universal" artifact fragments to level up your choice of any artifacts. waiting or looking for specific mark of union or mark of stability is getting on my patience.

    these salvage bags that dropped were often yield lower tier items that i already outgrowned or cant use older health repair kits.
    they need to redo health kits as universal instead of tiers, and update the potions.
    with VIP, they should had given us few more bounded health kits, at least 3-5 per VIP tiers.

    (edited to add), Oh yeah, please add a new adventurer kits as tier 2 only for epic zones and those dungeon/nature boxes should be tier 2 kit, with better loots.
    and we need few "rarer" access tools for crafters, with better chance of finding green (iron) or blue (steel) blackice crafting gauntlet for example.
    those tier 2 kit keys are only lootable in epic zones if devs decide.
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    drkbodhidrkbodhi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
    Exactly... other than buying a GMOP on the AH... where can you find one? In fact what used to drop on a daily basis from the chest in the DR mini-dungeons has been replaced by a chance to get a Greater Mark. Yet Knox still guarantees that the reward for running DS, DF or PF is a Greater Mark.

    I know why they wont change things because that would mean that people could farm the r6s and 7s... sell them and make a ton of AD. But here is the issue... when everyone has access to r6s and 7s... the prices in the AH will drop to those that currently reside with the r5s.

    This is an issue where the right hand is not talking to the left hand and the brain is not managing anything it seems.​​
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    Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
    Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
    SYNERGY Alliance
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    icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    GMOP can be bought from Wonderous market. I used to buy it from there and just sell on AH for a higher price and ppl would still buy it... easy profit....
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    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
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    drkbodhidrkbodhi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
    I never thought of doing it that way.​​
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    Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
    Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
    SYNERGY Alliance
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    rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    I won't be hopping on this crusade today because I didn't get rank 5s from my level up rewards box earlier! May I stay in the good graces of the RNGods and good fortune keep shining on my cookie ^^

    Also getting a better drop rate from my dragons hoard lately, more frequent and plentiful, seemingly above the usual daily cap. I wonder if it got rigged or something. Got an opal plus a bunch of shinies and loaded with peridots.
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    urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    drkbohdi said:

    I know why they wont change things because that would mean that people could farm the r6s and 7s... sell them and make a ton of AD. But here is the issue... when everyone has access to r6s and 7s... the prices in the AH will drop to those that currently reside with the r5s.

    As soon as they started dropping enough to farm them the price would drop only relative to the drop rate. The main reason why you can't farm them is because bots would just farm them and cryptic doesn't want that much RP on the AH.

    Would also make the price on mark of potency tank and they'd be pretty useless at that point.
    rustlord said:

    I won't be hopping on this crusade for now because I didn't get rank 5s from my level up rewards box today. May I stay in the good graces of the RNGods and good fortune keep shining on my cookie ^^

    I got rank 5s :|

    (and a power point ;p )
    icyphish said:

    GMOP can be bought from Wonderous market. I used to buy it from there and just sell on AH for a higher price and ppl would still buy it... easy profit....



    The price on the AH is lower because of VIP.
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    drkbodhidrkbodhi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    It would make the "gear gap" smaller.​​
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    Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
    Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
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    urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    drkbodhi said:

    It would make the "gear gap" smaller.​​

    And cryptic doesn't want that : |

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    drkbodhidrkbodhi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
    Are you absolutely sure they don't?​​
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    Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
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    rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    Not entirely disagreeing, but one of the bigger factors involved is the hard line between introducing products at a certain market value and causing potential devaluation of said items by making it cheaper sooner rather than later. This definitely does not encourage me, as the customer, to buy a newly released product. Prices within a given economy will always seek to find its equilibrium in time, but you don't just so drastically alter that balance for the contentment of "most" of the non paying customers.

    I personally wouldn't be too pleased to see Rank 9 and Rank 10, and Transcendent level items selling for two tiers below the price I had purchased them. I can be happy for you seeing that you finally get the same stuff few people have. But I would lose faith in the company and just stop the stream of money I'm feeding it.
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    drkbodhidrkbodhi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    I know you would be happy for me rustlord. Do you not think that a lot of players already feel what you would potentially feel towards Cryptic?

    Would the satisfaction be met for the lower end at the sacrifice of the higher end who has already had that large amount of satisfaction?

    When the bottom of the boat rises, does not the top of the boat rise as well?​​
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    Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
    Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
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    urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    drkbodhi said:

    Are you absolutely sure they don't?​​

    If they did the grind wouldn't be as insane as it is right now.
    rustlord said:

    Not entirely disagreeing, but one of the bigger factors involved is the hard line between introducing products at a certain market value and causing potential devaluation of said items by making it cheaper sooner rather than later. This definitely does not encourage me, as the customer, to buy a newly released product. Prices within a given economy will always seek to find its equilibrium in time, but you don't just so drastically alter that balance for the contentment of "most" of the non paying customers.

    I personally wouldn't be too pleased to see Rank 9 and Rank 10, and Transcendent level items selling for two tiers below the price I had purchased them. I can be happy for you seeing that you finally get the same stuff few people have. But I would lose faith in the company and just stop the stream of money I'm feeding it.

    Rank 6 enchants would have a minimal effect on the price of anything higher than rank 7. Those are mostly as high as they are because of the RP and GMoPs needed.
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    rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    urabask said:

    drkbodhi said:

    Are you absolutely sure they don't?​​

    If they did the grind wouldn't be as insane as it is right now.
    rustlord said:

    Not entirely disagreeing, but one of the bigger factors involved is the hard line between introducing products at a certain market value and causing potential devaluation of said items by making it cheaper sooner rather than later. This definitely does not encourage me, as the customer, to buy a newly released product. Prices within a given economy will always seek to find its equilibrium in time, but you don't just so drastically alter that balance for the contentment of "most" of the non paying customers.

    I personally wouldn't be too pleased to see Rank 9 and Rank 10, and Transcendent level items selling for two tiers below the price I had purchased them. I can be happy for you seeing that you finally get the same stuff few people have. But I would lose faith in the company and just stop the stream of money I'm feeding it.

    Rank 6 enchants would have a minimal effect on the price of anything higher than rank 7. Those are mostly as high as they are because of the RP and GMoPs needed.
    We have empirical data on the effect of boosting the base drops one tier above. We did this coming from rank 4, to base rank 5 drops between modules 5 and 6. The result was that all enchantment prices for ordinary offense, defense and utility enchantments dipped one tier below. I am not strongly against this, and I think, within the bounds of reason, it's a positive thing. I specifically said "two tiers below" to caution readers of a highly likely and catastrophic domino effect it would do to the economy. Such as enabling rank 7 drops.

    I'm also inclined to think that the current RP prices (rank 5s) are at achievable margins for casual players. 10K per stack of R5 from (insert legit) farmers. It's only more expensive now due to the encroaching 2x RP. What I would have appreciated more is a one tier improvement on refinement stone drops, as this is currently the biggest hurdle in terms of mass-quantity value.
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    muuli01muuli01 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    rustlord said:

    Not entirely disagreeing, but one of the bigger factors involved is the hard line between introducing products at a certain market value and causing potential devaluation of said items by making it cheaper sooner rather than later. This definitely does not encourage me, as the customer, to buy a newly released product. Prices within a given economy will always seek to find its equilibrium in time, but you don't just so drastically alter that balance for the contentment of "most" of the non paying customers.

    I personally wouldn't be too pleased to see Rank 9 and Rank 10, and Transcendent level items selling for two tiers below the price I had purchased them. I can be happy for you seeing that you finally get the same stuff few people have. But I would lose faith in the company and just stop the stream of money I'm feeding it.

    Discourage newcomers stay ingame and you can keep whole game alone...

    Losing some "gamevalue" items value is really "no BIG deal" and soon rank9´s to rank10´s became really cheaper, armor/weapon enchants price seems to stay but I don mind if they drop 2x more.

    It is still "bits in internet/ingame only", :p

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    rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    muuli01 said:

    rustlord said:

    Not entirely disagreeing, but one of the bigger factors involved is the hard line between introducing products at a certain market value and causing potential devaluation of said items by making it cheaper sooner rather than later. This definitely does not encourage me, as the customer, to buy a newly released product. Prices within a given economy will always seek to find its equilibrium in time, but you don't just so drastically alter that balance for the contentment of "most" of the non paying customers.

    I personally wouldn't be too pleased to see Rank 9 and Rank 10, and Transcendent level items selling for two tiers below the price I had purchased them. I can be happy for you seeing that you finally get the same stuff few people have. But I would lose faith in the company and just stop the stream of money I'm feeding it.

    Discourage newcomers stay ingame and you can keep whole game alone...

    Losing some "gamevalue" items value is really "no BIG deal" and soon rank9´s to rank10´s became really cheaper, armor/weapon enchants price seems to stay but I don mind if they drop 2x more.

    It is still "bits in internet/ingame only", :p

    Discourage paying customers to spend our hard earned money and Cryptic goes bankrupt ^^
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    drkbodhidrkbodhi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
    That would not discourage them from spending money. Nothing will ever discourage people from spending money. People will always want to buy the best and be the best... that they can afford. I remember when people realized that r5s were dropping in the EE zones... a lot of people lost it. There were outcries that included a bunch of "that it would ruin the market" comments.

    Has it?

    People also freaked out about PvErs getting the PvP gear during the NCL. Comments that it would ruin PvP. The truth... it would have made it harder for those who were geared. It did in fact... but it raised the bar and everyone rose with the bottom. PvP is a mess for other reasons... and not because the gear-gap closed there.


    Change is a scary thing. It is not scary because of the work needed it is scary because of this notion... how would that influence my current game. Love you rustlord... but 'gear-gaps' and 'fear of change' will never end.

    Empirical data is good... but it is based on personal experiences which is subjective and not an honest report unscathed by a POV. Again we will use Economical terms for this... right now there is a serious depression of gear. We have our 1%ers and we have our 99%ers. Many of the people in the middle believe that they are in the 1% group... but they are not even close. Because the 99% are very wide-spread and would include anyone under 3.8k iL. Still they feel that they work hard for their gear and worry that the increase in gear for the lower levels will mess with their lives. When in fact it does nothing to their lives, but raise them up.

    When you bolster the lower levels you make the economy stronger because now these players are contributing a lot more instead of "living hand to mouth", waiting for a 2xRP day and luck to get by.

    As I said... when the bottom of the boat rises, the entire boat rises. This also increases competition, the economy, success in DD runs, the number of people willing to spend money in-game... and it creates more players who share the game.

    Those are ALL verified truths.

    For a perfect example of this... look at Costco's business model. The lowest paid employee makes $40K USD, a year. They have full benefits and sick leave. They have lower employee turn-over and greater customer/employee satisfaction.

    Raise the bottom and everything rises... that is a fact.​​
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    Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
    Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
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    urlord283urlord283 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,084 Arc User
    I believe there should be some Blue equipment drops...

    It would help the SH coffer

    It seems the only way to get more than green is to run DDs

    Please consider

    Urlord
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    drkbodhidrkbodhi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
    That too... but that horse has been dead and beaten since the release of M6.​​
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    Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
    Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
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    rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    There is nothing free in the Free 2 Play world. There are two types of gamers;

    1. The strugglers, the free crowd, they look down on others for spending real money on a free game without understanding that video games take huge amounts of money to develop. See number two. The free crowd practices their liberty to express opinion, and sometimes abusively so, and demands every single QoL issue to be fixed in their favor. All without spending a dime.

    2. The P2W crowd, because, let's not sugarcoat it. We, who spend cash, do it for the advantage and to offset the lack of time we can waste away chipping at the keyboard playing video games. We have work. That is money we earn and we absolutely expect "value" from it, otherwise this feels like a scam. Of course, idiots will be idiots and will still pay thousands from a single paycheck for the marginal difference in stats, that BiS sh*t above 4K, but that's not what keep the game alive.

    Don't be surprised that most of the players at that level now did not get 4K within a single purchase. It's gradual. It happens over time. I should be twice BiS by now if I didn't spend on the worst possible items and took breaks at the worst possible months. Those wasted respec tokens from trying to find a "stable non-fotm build" that wouldn't be nerfed one week later, or BoP artifacts and enchantments like a 13 Million trans Elven that has been bugged forever.

    You accumulate one BiS item each month or each week from all kinds of sources and later get to trade them because they retain relative value! Take that away, and good luck finding more gullible players. I know I'm buying digital whatnots here; but I'm not scr*wing around buying fireworks to blow up within a span of two minutes.

    All this invalidates the running theory that whales will keep a disloyal company from crumbling to pieces. Whoever choose to believe something else, be my guest. I will be long gone before you have no more devs to complain to because there are no more people who actually PAYS them.

    Nothing personal to any of you. But while I can acquiesce to a slight change of pace, it's pure BS that new players should get to buy rank 9s and 10s for the price of rank 7s. For all the work and money we invested in our characters, you can't expect the Powers That Be to slingshot you across the moon beyond that gear gap just because you say so.
    Post edited by rustlord on
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    drkbodhidrkbodhi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
    Well since 9's and 10's are not BiS... that was 2 mods ago... then why not let them sell for less? If I remember correctly the prices have not gone down since then... despite 5's dropping everywhere from every pore.

    I spend money... but when I like to. I wont, usually, buy things that don't make my characters better. I would usually spend about $80 to $100 a month... but not since I was not given the account wide Priestess of Sune that I was promised when I bought XX amount of Zen. Since then I may spend $20 a month... and still not convinced on VIP.​​
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    Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
    Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
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    rustlordrustlord Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    I firmly believe rank 7 shouldn't start dropping from heroic encounters or dungeons at this point in time. Besides, get VIP rank 1 and you will be swimming on them from the Elemental-Rigged-Strongbox-of-Enchantments.On top of the surplus rank 7 enchantments and runestones, VIP is actually paying out for me; The rare rewards from the daily key amount to 20-60K per day and I only got as lucky as getting a 200K Bonding Runestone. Add the free Coalescent Ward from the Tarmalune Trade Bars, I'm way ahead for another two months.

    Prices should more or less stay at a relative range because a stable economy attracts buyers. It's not fair to people with rank 12s now if tomorrow I can get those at the price of rank 10, and its not fair to me if others should get it at the price of rank 8. The previous base-level drop update from 4 to 5 was only justified by raising the level cap, and I knew people who quit spending full stop because their hard-earned rank 10s are now on sale for the price of rank 9s.

    With the AD changes, prices will already be on decline. Players will be out of money, and soon sellers would begin to underbid each other more competitively. They can meet this halfway for free and casual players by increasing the daily refinement cap now if it fits the target model.
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