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Tiamat Quitters Penalty
ogpaulyc
Member Posts: 32 Arc User
I have played Tiamat fairly a lot of damn times and I'm sick and tired of being grouped up with quitters or Low GS players who STILL have green gear. There needs to be a penalty and different requirements for Timat in my opinion.
If you quit you should not be able to enter Tiamat for 5 Hours. If you quit you should lose 5k AD . If you quit you should be put on a que ban of 3 hours.
Those 3 things Will CERTAINLY stop people from quitting n stop people who have no idea what there doing from joining in.
I'm trying to be fair but it's not fair for the other 20 something players who have to struggle because there teammates quit.
I don't understand.. Tiamat isn't even hard at ALL!
- Defend Clerics ( DONT FIGHT ON THEM) (Tank take agro and run around)
- Use CORRECT Gem or CORRECT dragon head
- Start black head work your way right
- Try hardest to have red head down on first run.
like I don't understand the difficulty...
and btw it takes time and another death to revive someone so if you die JUST RESPAWN it takes less time n your back in the fight not dying over clerics -.-
IDK I'm ranting but something's NEED to be fixed. Tiamat should be zones based and not random. If that's not possible then at least be able to go in with a group to increase chances cause I HATE Quitters !!!
sorry rant over
If you quit you should not be able to enter Tiamat for 5 Hours. If you quit you should lose 5k AD . If you quit you should be put on a que ban of 3 hours.
Those 3 things Will CERTAINLY stop people from quitting n stop people who have no idea what there doing from joining in.
I'm trying to be fair but it's not fair for the other 20 something players who have to struggle because there teammates quit.
I don't understand.. Tiamat isn't even hard at ALL!
- Defend Clerics ( DONT FIGHT ON THEM) (Tank take agro and run around)
- Use CORRECT Gem or CORRECT dragon head
- Start black head work your way right
- Try hardest to have red head down on first run.
like I don't understand the difficulty...
and btw it takes time and another death to revive someone so if you die JUST RESPAWN it takes less time n your back in the fight not dying over clerics -.-
IDK I'm ranting but something's NEED to be fixed. Tiamat should be zones based and not random. If that's not possible then at least be able to go in with a group to increase chances cause I HATE Quitters !!!
sorry rant over
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Comments
Round 1 - Black, green should be all the way down to <25%, red to 50%
Round 2 - Red, blue, and white should be down to <25%
If the above req's aren't met by the end of round 2, its highly likely to be a fail. Stay in the instance if you want to grind away for another 10-15m for the possibility of getting an egg, but I am not a fan of the idea of forcing the rest of the instance to spend their time that way.
I have other stuff to do when it's an obvious fail..
EDIT: I am a fan of carrots, so how about providing a reward that entices players to stay, rather than punishment...
Ayzah - 70 GWF
Bull - 70 GF
Legacy - always looking for active, mature, fun players. Join the LEGACY - (click here)
the problem I have are the quitters / low GA / people who spam chat saying "red head needs to be at 25% or it's a loss" n when people see that in zone and it's not at 25% lots of people quit and it's like you can win at 50% it's just unfair for many reasons..
Tiamat should be a que for 11k+ GS and be able to whe with a team. because Communication is vital in Tiamat when you have people who are new
Cryptic just wants there to be some level of jeapordy else it becomes an entitlement thing. Thanfully hoard level 4 makes beating tiamat even with low gs a highly probable outcome. Hoard 1-3 are definitely the suck if you're trying to farm Linu's
Ayzah - 70 GWF
Bull - 70 GF
Legacy - always looking for active, mature, fun players. Join the LEGACY - (click here)
ALSO, it must be said that once Mod6 drops NO ONE will be running Tiamat for a while. Not until they get to lvl 70 and have gear. So all this asking for a penalty to non sense to be honest.
From here on out I will only ever run Tiamat when it is tier 4. If the changes that you recommend were to be made, I would simply never run Tiamat again.
Here's some food for thought. It is in my personal best interest for the community to fail Tiamat so that there are fewer and fewer incantations of the dragon queen drops as well as tiamat's orb drops so that the ones I already possess become more valuable. To go along with that line of thinking, I am done donating anything to the hoard to increase Tiamat's tier levels.
Moral of the story.. Tiamat will only get harder as more and more of the upper tier of players get everything they need from Taimat and quit running it and quit donating to the hoard.
ASYLUM
plus also
^^^^^ For Patsfire
The last few days I have gone to Tiamat in a full instance and found I was the only one at the door, I have one favour left to get the last piece of my set, I can get that out of farming coffers.
The last weeks runs have been frankly abysmal in terms of the group make ups, I concur completely with Patsfire on the math of leaving, its not rocket science lets be honest.
Penalizing folk for leaving under those circumstances is ludicrous, however given that most of the hard core are clearly not even going in now that point is pretty moot
Don't enter if you aren't prepared to see it to the end.
Here's how you fix it:
1. Change point cost for Rewards for the Hoard quest from 1500 to 750.
2. Once you enter Tiamat's temple, you can't leave until she is dead or you fail.
3. After being in the spawn for 10 seconds, you are thrown into the battlefield. The barrier blocks entrance into the spawn
4. Each time you are forced out of the spawn, the threat you generate doubles. Resets when you leave the spawn yourself.
5. If you try to leave by quitting the game in any way, that character will only spawn into an empty temple for the next 24 hours.
Someone had lost Tiamat one to many times. Simple fix for all of your solutions, go out, get downed, DONT repsawn. Beat your system, and I think it would be hilarious to see 20 people just lying dead on the ground simply so they don't have to waste their time trying to fight in a hopeless endeavor.
So if we can't even get the black dragon head down to 25% 1st wave (yes this just happened to me)....everyone should stay in the instance?
So if the group does not even start on the 1st wave of heads until 8mins in (yes also happened recently)....everyone should stay in the instance?
You need to stop thinking about YOURSELF and crying that people leave when the instance is a SURE FAIL. If you choose to stay in an instance that will 100% FAIL, that's your own fault. Others don't feel like we should waste our time to get nothing in return.
When you fix a problem, you do so in a way that if it causes an inconvenience, it will be in the sheer minority.
Removing the option for people to leave does that.
- Habitual quitters will stop entering either altogether or until they grow up
- People will begin to realize that situations they saw as "hopeless" were nothing more than their own misguided view.
- Most importantly, people will get better.
As it stands now, there is no incentive to get any better. If the lobby sucks (1% of the time) or you are delusional/so full of yourself that you believe it sucks (99% of the time) then people just leave, HAMSTER over everyone else when I guarantee, if you had kept fighting, you would have succeeded.
Very few people even understand the absolute fact that in the first round, it can take up to 45 seconds for everyone to gather at the current head (usually black). That's 45 seconds of missing dps that you are not taking into account when you go:
"Ermahgawd, redz iz onlee 20% dedz, wez iz epikz failz" *leeving*
If at the end of the 2nd round, 4 heads aren't at 25% and white isn't 40% or less. THEN and only THEN do you have a justifiable right to quit. At that point, everyone has had a chance to give their all.
I have been in the runs where black dragon head just gets to 25% and folk carry on (in the early days), but put simply it really does not happen. Even with 2 heads down it's not doable if the other 3 are at 100%.
Of the many times I have done Tiamat, the success has come from 2.5 heads down run 1 and 2, and a real push on the third run. About 5 times I have done it in 2 runs with 4 heads at 25% after the first run. Wow this is "draconic" at it's worst (forgive the pun). You simply cannot force people and threaten with a ban hammer. This game is a business, and these tactics will simply mean folk leave for another game.
Its an (informed) choice to enter into Temple of Tiamat. As part of that choice you know there is a chance not everyone who is there will:
a) Know what their doing
b) Play particular well having perhaps purchased gear off Auction House to get in to WoD
c) Want to partake in any fashion
d) leave if it looks unlikely to be completed.
With these points in mind I rarely try Tiamat any more unless it's at Tier 4, and there is a run of dragons prior. occurrences that are getting rarer.
I know if I enter outside of these conditions there is a good chance that it will be a fail. If it is looking unlikely, and a quick map check shows half the raid in the spawn area, I will leave the instance, as there is no point being there for another 15+ minutes and suffer frustration and annoyance because the teamwork isn't happening.
To fix the problem you need to incentivise players rather than smash them in the teeth with a brick. That incentive needs to be as good as leaving and doing something else for the time period. There is some random incentive in so much as the end of contest drops, but for many (including me) these are simply not enough of a draw to hang about.
Ultimately it needs to be a choice, a choice to enter, and a choice to leave should you so wish.
In relation to the spawn campers who sit there, and then do a bit in the last few minutes to get a reward, yes I agree this does need dealing with, perhaps an auto kick from the instance, and recalculating Dragon health based on the number of folk remaining after the leachers have been removed. (Though they shouldn't be penalised beond being removed from the instance).
> And in regards to this, I don't know what kind of horror level lobbies you've been a part of but I've been playing since PC version was in beta. To this day the number of "sure fail" situations I've encountered number less than a dozen.
>
>
>
>
> Thats not the case on Xbox in my experience and that of many the folk I know on NW. It is a lottery with the better runs arriving once tier4 is unlocked, prior to that success is about 25% tops, and might hit 80% on a good tier 4 thursday.
>
> I have been in the runs where black dragon head just gets to 25% and folk carry on (in the early days), but put simply it really does not happen. Even with 2 heads down it's not doable if the other 3 are at 100%.
> Of the many times I have done Tiamat, the success has come from 2.5 heads down run 1 and 2, and a real push on the third run. About 5 times I have done it in 2 runs with 4 heads at 25% after the first run.
> Here's how you fix it:
>
> 2. Once you enter Tiamat's temple, you can't leave until she is dead or you fail.
> 3. After being in the spawn for 10 seconds, you are thrown into the battlefield. The barrier blocks entrance into the spawn
> 4. Each time you are forced out of the spawn, the threat you generate doubles. Resets when you leave the spawn yourself.
> 5. If you try to leave by quitting the game in any way, that character will only spawn into an empty temple for the next 24 hours.
>
>
>
>
> Wow this is "draconic" at it's worst (forgive the pun). You simply cannot force people and threaten with a ban hammer. This game is a business, and these tactics will simply mean folk leave for another game.
>
> Its an (informed) choice to enter into Temple of Tiamat. As part of that choice you know there is a chance not everyone who is there will:
> a) Know what their doing
> b) Play particular well having perhaps purchased gear off Auction House to get in to WoD
> c) Want to partake in any fashion
> d) leave if it looks unlikely to be completed.
>
> With these points in mind I rarely try Tiamat any more unless it's at Tier 4, and there is a run of dragons prior. occurrences that are getting rarer.
> I know if I enter outside of these conditions there is a good chance that it will be a fail. If it is looking unlikely, and a quick map check shows half the raid in the spawn area, I will leave the instance, as there is no point being there for another 15+ minutes and suffer frustration and annoyance because the teamwork isn't happening.
>
> To fix the problem you need to incentivise players rather than smash them in the teeth with a brick. That incentive needs to be as good as leaving and doing something else for the time period. There is some random incentive in so much as the end of contest drops, but for many (including me) these are simply not enough of a draw to hang about.
>
> Ultimately it needs to be a choice, a choice to enter, and a choice to leave should you so wish.
>
> In relation to the spawn campers who sit there, and then do a bit in the last few minutes to get a reward, yes I agree this does need dealing with, perhaps an auto kick from the instance, and recalculating Dragon health based on the number of folk remaining after the leachers have been removed. (Though they shouldn't be penalised beond being removed from the instance).
There are no rewards in life for quitting. You do not get a cooking for refusing to do your homework, and you do not get a paycheck for refusing to work. It's not a brick to the teeth to temporarily prevent a player, who by his own accord entered the Temple, then upon no liking (insert excuse here), left thereby HAMSTER everyone else over, from reentry. If the motivation is there to quit, like moths to a flame, people will quit. While I grant some reasons may seem valid, where and how would you draw that line? Those who say "I would stop playing if said ban happens", I would say good riddance. It was only a matter of time before you quit on the entire game anyway. By the way there is an incentive to stay even in a "lost cause". From the rewards given even in failure, to the pride in being able to say "I made a commitment and I saw it thru".
I personally have a life that does not consist of playing this or any game all day every day. Therefore when I do get on and play for the short period of time that I do, I would like to be able to beat whatever I go in to beat, in this case Tiamat. If I know the situation is unwinnable I will leave and spend my short amount of time I am on the game doing something more productive for my characters. Then maybe when I go back I will get lucky enough to get into a lobby with stronger people who not only have enough DPS for the dragons but can also handle the clerics.
Tiamat itself is just like the loot rolls we get running every dungeon. Need/Greed/Pass, or in this case Winnable/Plausible/Unwinnable. It all depends on what lobby you get thrown into. If I get one of the first 2 I will always stay, but if I roll the 3rd...I choose to leave and there should not be a punishment for that.
> This is a game, not a real life situation. In games you want to be able to beat whatever obstacle is in your way. Sure you don't want it to be easy and a quick fix/run, but you also want it to be possible. There are runs, such as the ones I mentioned, that are NOT possible to beat. I am not saying those are an everyday occurrence, I have only left maybe 10 times at this point. But the fact remains, this is a GAME, everyone wants to be able to win at some point and not feel like they are wasting their time.
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> I personally have a life that does not consist of playing this or any game all day every day. Therefore when I do get on and play for the short period of time that I do, I would like to be able to beat whatever I go in to beat, in this case Tiamat. If I know the situation is unwinnable I will leave and spend my short amount of time I am on the game doing something more productive for my characters. Then maybe when I go back I will get lucky enough to get into a lobby with stronger people who not only have enough DPS for the dragons but can also handle the clerics.
>
> Tiamat itself is just like the loot rolls we get running every dungeon. Need/Greed/Pass, or in this case Winnable/Plausible/Unwinnable. It all depends on what lobby you get thrown into. If I get one of the first 2 I will always stay, but if I roll the 3rd...I choose to leave and there should not be a punishment for that.
Be that as it may, you have your excuse for leaving. Others will do it intentionally to burn the other playing. More so when there are no consequences for that action. Yes, this is a game. A game in which I spend time, no mater how much of, my life playing. I want to win. I accept that is not always possible. I commit my time with that in mind. I do not commit my time so that another can decide all by themselves to wreck it, for jollies, or any other reason. Even in an expected loss I fight on. As this is the commitment I made. I am not playing this game for some superficial reward. Like you said it is only a game, no actual reward in hand. Even if there was I will return to the dirt without it anyway. Everything I do in my life, and the passion I give them, will be what I measure myself by in the end. I do not undertake anything without thought. I do not "waste" my time. If no ban is what the devs decide, so be it. I will fight on. AS that is the commitment I have made. I disagree with your view but, I respect what you have said.
Why quit Tiamat? EVER? Just change lobbies!
You are confused? Try this... Enter Tiamat, que up for PvP (or a quick shores skirmish). Play your game of PvP and then when it is over you are put back into a Tiamat lobby at random. Hope that you get put back into one that is a win and get a free Linu's favor! Profit!
Try to force a quitters penalty on people and EVERYBODY will do this. People will always find a way to game the system.
ASYLUM
> This thread is sooo amusing. I'm going to let you guys in on a secret that will probably make quite a few of you rage! Once this becomes wide spread the amount of Tiamat fails will increase greatly.
>
> Why quit Tiamat? EVER? Just change lobbies!
>
> You are confused? Try this... Enter Tiamat, que up for PvP (or a quick shores skirmish). Play your game of PvP and then when it is over you are put back into a Tiamat lobby at random. Hope that you get put back into one that is a win and get a free Linu's favor! Profit!
>
> Try to force a quitters penalty on people and EVERYBODY will do this. People will always find a way to game the system.
Someone who wants something for nothing. Trying to game/steal to get what they want. That is what is amusing. Why?Are things to difficult to work for? Is life to hard? Or are you to lazy?
And I'm amused by your tears. You have the rest of the day today and all day tomorrow to beat Tiamat and get your favors. After the tier is reset on Friday you can kiss easy Tiamat runs good bye. I'm in the process of saving all of my coffers for you. When Tiamat becomes near impossible and people need their 15 favors for the artifact equipment I will be more than happy to sell my coffers to your for triple what they are going for today.
ASYLUM
Honestly when I was grinding I would literally stand at Tiamat doors, run a few ELOL/ESOT and then go into Tiamat, then repeat until I was done playing. This way I can not only continue to go to ELOL/ESOT, but also get some Tiamat runs in.
> Someone who wants something for nothing. Trying to game/steal to get what they want. That is what is amusing. Why?Are things to difficult to work for? Is life to hard? Or are you to lazy?
>
>
>
> Well for starters, you shouldn't assume you know ANYTHING about me. Just leave it at that.
>
> And I'm amused by your tears. You have the rest of the day today and all day tomorrow to beat Tiamat and get your favors. After the tier is reset on Friday you can kiss easy Tiamat runs good bye. I'm in the process of saving all of my coffers for you. When Tiamat becomes near impossible and people need their 15 favors for the artifact equipment I will be more than happy to sell my coffers to your for triple what they are going for today.
No tears to shed. I will earn some favors, I will not earn some favors. It's all the same to me. My point was on your statement of how you approach the game, and by extension life in general. If I made a leap in logic, you have my sincere apology. I do not compartmentalize my life. Life is the everything I do, every moment, every action. From the miniscule to the monumental. I know this is just a forum on a game, and that my statements are a more broader philosophical line of thought. The rewards do not matter to me, how I approach the challenges undertaken, and how I conduct myself to that effect are very important to me. This isn't life and death, so no big deal. I was only having a discussion. Your statement merely raised some questions. Disregard if you prefer.