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[Newbie Needing Help] How should I build my future beloved Paladin ?
vichado
Member Posts: 13 Arc User
Hey guys ! 
After a long time not playing, I came back on Neverwinter Online and discovered many new exciting things,
including the Oathbound Paladin.
I then decided to make a lil' bit a research and I am now pretty sure this character will suit me.
However, I like to make things clean right from the beginning.
So before even creating my character, I need to know what Paragon path and what Ability Points distribution I should use.
I'm a player who likes challenge, I am going to PvE and PvP on an equal basis. Of course I'd like to be able to tank for parties, decently heal my comrades and dealing just enough damage to go through solo content.
I just want to be essential for my team not to be wiped. (ego, much ?)
(reading that it seems like I'm asking too much, but you'll tell me, you know your HAMSTER whereas I don't !)
So... Devotion ? Protection ? I will need your answers !
Concerning stats, it is just that I checked a lot of guides in the Citadel sections on the forum and on MMOMinds to inform myself a bit more about the class, but it seems like everybody does what he want between Charisma and Wisdom (and Dexterity, wat ?) : some maxing one, some maxing the other, and the last ones making them equally important.
Reading a bit on Neverwinter Online, it seems like a lot changed with Mod6 so if you could tell me in what way each build is fitting in the meta, that'd be cool !
Thank you all, welcome a future fellow pally !
After a long time not playing, I came back on Neverwinter Online and discovered many new exciting things,
including the Oathbound Paladin.
I then decided to make a lil' bit a research and I am now pretty sure this character will suit me.
However, I like to make things clean right from the beginning.
So before even creating my character, I need to know what Paragon path and what Ability Points distribution I should use.
I'm a player who likes challenge, I am going to PvE and PvP on an equal basis. Of course I'd like to be able to tank for parties, decently heal my comrades and dealing just enough damage to go through solo content.
I just want to be essential for my team not to be wiped. (ego, much ?)
(reading that it seems like I'm asking too much, but you'll tell me, you know your HAMSTER whereas I don't !)
So... Devotion ? Protection ? I will need your answers !
Concerning stats, it is just that I checked a lot of guides in the Citadel sections on the forum and on MMOMinds to inform myself a bit more about the class, but it seems like everybody does what he want between Charisma and Wisdom (and Dexterity, wat ?) : some maxing one, some maxing the other, and the last ones making them equally important.
Reading a bit on Neverwinter Online, it seems like a lot changed with Mod6 so if you could tell me in what way each build is fitting in the meta, that'd be cool !
Thank you all, welcome a future fellow pally !
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Comments
The advantage of playing the devotion paladin is it is not gear dependent at all. The only gear you need is enough gear to meet the ilvl requirement for whatever it is you want to do then you are ready. This is not true of the protection paladin, who is somewhat gear dependent. This is also good because it means you don't get kicked from random groups (if you trying to random group) at all, because you are playing a support char who is not gear reliant. Another advantage of the devotion paladin is it is extremely straightforward to play and has no complicated decision making to make. Due to this, it is extremely friendly to someone learning the class, where as the protection paladin is more complex. This does come at the downfall of the devotion paladin being less interesting to play, but at the same time, groups are less dependent on you then they are on the gameplay of a protection pally, giving you a less stressful environment to play in.
In terms of solo play, a protection paladin is more powerful, in terms of group play, there is nothing stronger then a devotion paladin. However, devotion paladins are so strong in group play that it is unbalanced and likely to be nerfed, so bear that in mind. My guide is in my sig if you want to take a look, its the only devotion paladin guide on the forums, there are quite a few protection ones to compare and weigh up though.
First of all, congrats for choosing an OP, you’ll enjoy this class as much as everyone is doing right now.
I’ve been playing a Prot. Oathbound Paladin since release of MOD6, I’ve been tanking with an GF since Neverwinter’s beta, and tanking for about 10 years on MMORPGs, since WoW. So, I’ll try to answer your questions the best way I can:
Now, once you’ve done your choice, there’s another tricky question: Protection or Devotion. In spite of what some people could think at first, you can’t tank and heal, those are the different paths. Really it’s possible to do both things, but you'll be just good at one.. because once you make the decision, your powers will have different effect. Taking as example the Sanctuary (your shift-key action) that is the tactical power of our class, you will gain 60% Damage resistance + 20% for allies at range if choose Protection, while it will increase the healing of Sanctuary by 500% if you choose Devotion…
So, “sadly” you must choose between Tanking or Healing.
Let me tell you that GF and OP are more different classes and mechanics that you may think at first. While the GF blocks most of the damage with Defense and Deflect, we, OPs, relay our survivability on Damage resistance (mainly) and on HP (to be more specific, the temp HP). That’s one of the reasons you won’t see builds with high or similar deflection that a GF one. Different classes, different mechanics, that’s all.
I assume you’re talking about what to increase apart of Constitution. This one must go as your first priority… and then you can go Wisdom or Charisma depending of your build, due:
Wisdom: Increases Healing bonus, Critical chance, Control bonus, Control resistance.
Charisma: Increases Combat advantage, Stamina Regeneration, Action Points Gain, and Companion stat bonus.
So, for a Devotion OP may be better to choose Wisdom over Charisma due bonus healing, but as a Prot OP, I choose Charisma due Stamina regeneration and AP gain, that if you choose the correct build for you, this can make the difference. Note I’m only PvE, so if you like PvPing Wisdom can make your day due control resistance… up to you!
I won’t go deeper on this one there are a lot of nice guides you can base your OP on, I’ll just say that for PvE you’ll enjoy a Justice/Bulwark tree: Justice to the capstone that will make you throw encounters quicker, recharge your Daily quicker maintaining you daily “Divine Protector” up 100% of the time, make your party encounters to recharge quicker, you’ll hit harder… yes, you won’t be as hard as a 100% Bulwark tree, but remember that our job is not only defend us (GF can fit better this role) we have more “tools” to help the party, so exchanging some protection for recharge speeds for us and the group seems better for a lot of us (and it’s funnier too!!! ^_^ ).
There are a lot of different builds out there, but let me help you and remember this: right after reaching 70 stack HP and defense, and after 2,5K ilvl or so, you can start exchanging defense for power because you’ll be hard enough to resist 600K hits from bosses (that’s my next step).
I’ll leave some screenshots about my toon and stats so you can make an idea of what I’m talking about:
Obviously it’s a work in progress, I’ve slotted Radiants on defensive slots, and Dark on offensive: One tip here: The more ArPen: the more Hp you’ll have (through Templar's Wrath) and you’ll stand alive longer, but be careful with binding oath ;9 (take a look at the wiki for the powers - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Oathbound_Paladin ).
Now I’ll be switching to recovery and power progressively, My Artifacts are DC's Sigil, OP's Sigil, Wheel of Elements, and will change the Sigil of the GWF for the Tiamat’s Orb, my neck for the Tiamat one too (from MOD7) and probably after a while I’ll also change the waist for the Tiamat too, in order to gain the 5% more received healings.
Not much more to say now, maybe once you play it, you’ll have more questions. You can ask here again or add me ingame if you have further questions too
Best Regards!
//Severance
Edited for typo, sorry English is not my native language ;P
For my Protection Paladin I focused on Constitution and in gear/enchantments I focus on HP because that's what's needed to be a super-tank. I agree with @thefabricant about Devotion Paladins being a lot less gear independent than the Protection versions and for me the Devotion paladin feel more versatile and fluid (I play both and love them both). For my Devotion I focus on my encounter recharge speed and healing (for myself and party as it feels like Devotion is a bit more squishy than Protection, but definitely better DPS).
I can only say this to the O/P: You're likely gonna want to respec at end game anyway. The primary reason is that unlike *any other class* in this game the Paladin is literally two very separate classes depending on your Paragon. Hit the Wiki and study (yes: I mean really *study) the encounter powers. They each usually have three modes: Neutral, Devotion, and Protection and in some cases the exact same encounter power can have an opposite effect based on your Paragon.
The first and foremost decision you need to make is which way you'll go: Devotion or Protection. Fortunately you have 30 levels to decide. I could;t decide because they're both awesome, which is why I have one of each.
Still I have some questions.
Do you mean that a Devotion OP will actually take the slot of the DC and stay out of the front-lane ? I imagined it more like an actual tank who would be able to sustain himself a bit to tank and heal a bit his close allies too...
Are Devotion Paladins that overpowered ? As I said in my original post, I like challenge, dying and retrying in solo PvE is okay to me. I like a character needing skill to be mastered; with quite a steep learning curve.
Between Devotion and Protection, which one would make the most difference if played by a skilled player ?
Also, just to know, which path offers a little more DPS than the other ? And what about CC ?
One more thing, it seems you're all about PvE, but I enjoy PvP too (even with its downfalls and disappointments concerning the meta...). According to you, which path would be the most viable ?
I am truly sorry for asking all these questions but I like to know what I'm doing concerning a class that is designed to serve the group.
At the moment I am actually maining a Trapper HR which I love, so I am looking for something quite opposite, to get the most of the aspects of the game in only 2 characters (I won't bother paying for an extra slot and grinding a third character through the quests haha)
Anyway, I really thank you !
No problem
Regarding the skill, both variants have their point, but from a Prot. OP point of view, I must say that you MUST be skillful not to die One-shotted in T2 dungeons in your earliest 2K ilvl, but also once you are geared enough and you start to change DR and DEF for Recovery and Power, you'll always be at the edge as a tank... So the challenge is served
I'm afraid I'm not the best guy to help you hahaha maybe I can tell you a pair of things,but it's better left the hints for some PvP colleague
Once again, taking a look at the powers and feats will help you a lot understanding both variants of the Op and will make easier your choice.
BR
//Severance
P.S: atm it seems a Justice spec. Prot OP is the most damage dealer of the OPs as said on the forums.
Oh sorry hehe tbh no. Not properly. I mean, can a SW tank a T2? They could kite, but not tank as such. If you tank with a Dev. OP, you'll suffer, and your group will then suffer. It's the way it's wanted to be, otherwise they could have been released just one paragon, but they programmed two of them. If you ask strictly if you can, yes, technically you can. But in a practical way, choose Prot. if you want to TANK the content
BR
//Severance
Well, the thing about the devotion paladin is they scale really well together. Unlike other classes, which get worse the more of them you stick in a party, devotion paladins become better the more of them you stick in a party. So well in fact, that if you have 2 devotion paladins together in a party, I would actually say it would be a mistake to take any class other then a devotion paladin at that point.
This is because a devotion paladins damage scales off of 2 factors, the first being the number of members in a party and the second being the amount of healing taking place in a party. So, if you increase the number of paladins in the party, all their damage scales up. In terms of paladin defenses, their defense scales off their daily power, shield of faith, which stacks with itself and each time it applies, it acts as a second layer of damage resistance. With 1 devotion pally in a party, the party takes 50% less damage, with 2 in the party, 75% less damage, with 3 in the party, 87.5% less damage.....you get the picture. Due to this, by scaling the number of paladins, you scale the resilience of the party as well as the parties damage, instead of just scaling 1 factor at a time. This is what makes devotion paladins overpowered, the fact that they scale all aspects of a party at once. It is also why they are likely to be nerfed.
To make this point clear, I have done eCC with 3 devotion paladins and no tank and only 2 dps, because of the 87.5% damage reduction, the party could literally stand in the red circles when traven threw his fire bombs and would take almost no damage. This is the kind of power a devotion paladin brings to the group. From the devotion OP's point of view, with 2 devotion OP's, there is no need for a tank in all dungeons except eCC and eGWD. With more then 2, those dungeons become possible as well without a tank.
In terms of dps, alone, a protection paladin will do more damage, but, as I have said earlier, in a group, a devotion paladin will do more damage. This is because the devotion paladin benefits off of the number of players in a group. If the group size reaches 10 or more (tiamat, heroic encounters, dragon heralds) then the devotion paladin is the highest damage dealer in the area, a 2k ilvl devotion paladin in that group will deal more damage then a 5k ilvl gwf.
In terms of PVP, I am not entirely sure. I have not extended much experimentation in terms of pvp, however, I do know that whilst a protection paladin is killed by a SW, a devotion paladin is not. That is something to bear in mind. From what I have been told, a devotion paladin is stronger then a protection paladin in pvp, but this is not frist hand information so I could be wrong and I would not be surprised.
Hummm.. Interesting... I'd like to some PvPer OP clarify this, because from my own experience on Icewind Dale, Black Ice Domination, 6 guys were needed in order to kill me... as a Prot. OP... In my opinion we can stack enough DR, Temp HP, and damage reduction from all of our powers that it seems to me that Prot. are supposed to resist more on PVP.
BTW, I'm not a Pvp experienced guy and I'm talking about the standalone survivability or in a mixed party.
If you queue for a party:
You should get three DPS classes, one TANK class, and one HEALER class.
In that case for HEALER you should get *either* a Devoted Cleric or Devotion Paladin, *NOT BOTH*.
In that case for a TANK you should get *either* a Guardian Fighter or Protection Paladin, *NOT BOTH*.
So the direct word straight from the Devs' mouth is specifically: Paladin is one of two classes depending on Paragon: *Either* a healer *OR* a tank, *NOT BOTH*.
I have one of each and I can confirm this wholeheartedly - having already leveled both all the way up to 70 and running around Sharandar, Dread Ring, Iceland and whatnot: Protection is TANKY. *Very tank, but so-so DPS. Devotion is SQUISHY. Not as squishy as a squishy class, perhaps more like the GWF, still a little tank but definitely more squishy than Protection Paladin. But Devotion Paladin is excellent HEALER and somewhat better DPS than Protection.
So here is how to look at it:
Only play Paladin if you enjoy Single-Target Melee combat. If you do, then:
If you enjoy support HEALER then play Devotion Paragon Tree. You can still be a little squishy, but better than most.
If you enjoy being a super TANK then play Protection Paragon Tree. You will usually be the last one standing if you do it right.
So base your decision on these:
Enjoy melee? Play Paladin.
Enjoy being a healer? Choose Devotion.
Enjoy always being the one in front? Choose Protection.
Seriously: as simple as that.
And if you all tell that it comes to this point, then I guess the Protection Paladin is the one
that'll suit best what I was looking for.
I indeed chose the Paladin for the single-target melee combat (my HR already offering me some great AoE DPS) and the tankyness (that my HR obviously lacks of). The heal would have been a extra, but that's really it.
(btw I simply didn't want to play a Guardian Fighter for other reasons, so it was the Paladin !)
I'll try that when I get some time and will keep you informed !
Anyway, thank you so much for all that information guys, this is really what I was looking for.
I already said it but... gotta love this forum community which at first looks seems quite mature and understanding
That doesn't mean I cannot be one-shot - I can, but often those one-shots that incinerate all other classes (even the Devotion Paladin) usually only knocks me down to 10-15% (this is what I mean by "last one standing") and it allows me to try to rescue others, but it is so much fun (for me) to be up close into the Boss' face whacking away and knowing my Aura's are buffing the party, my shields are protecting the party and my debuffs are weakening the mobs.
@vichado - Great choice. I'm sure you'll love it as it plays very different from HR (who is always dodging and skirmishing, except when close contact is required) - you'll be the Leroy Jenkins of the Party.