Now that you're finally doing something about Mod 6 - how many more months to correcting the SW?

lyaise · August 2015

You wrecked the class with Module 6 - didn't take you long, just a game download when the expansion came out and there it was - wrecked (with added bugs thrown in for good measure).

It's taken you months to announce that something's going to change in the 61-70 range. And no - you definitely do not get an "all praise the devs" reaction from me for this.

The fact that you introduced that population killer expansion in that state was unbelievable. Now months later something is going to happen - soon.....

So how many more months for the SW?

Remember the Temptation spec? - may take a while to recall that it's actually a feat tree in the class. The one you said that you'd treat as a special case when you nerfed LS - only you didn't. You relegated it to.....well to nothing.

As for the others - well, our wonderful soul puppet bug has been the unintended respite from the pit of awfulness you threw the class into.

DO NOT think the class is doing ok with dps because of a programming mistake. Fix the class bugs, then fix the class. Not in several months time - this should have been done straight after Mod 6 launch day.

vordayn · August 2015

I'm not an experienced SW by any means, but perhaps the experienced SWs could write their suggestions for improving their class in these posts?

A few suggestions I'd make is perhaps increasing damage mitigation and/or piercing damage resistance while shadow slipping. Maybe increase it from 30% to 45%. Scourge Warlocks do slip into the shadow after all and they should be difficult to target. This would improve survivability in PvP.

Another would be to reduce the animation time for a few spells (Hadar's grasp, Arms of Hadar) so it might be better used in PvP.

What is it about the Temptation class that needs to be reworked? (I haven't tried that tree yet).

vladious1977 · August 2015

vordayn wrote: »

I'm not an experienced SW by any means, but perhaps the experienced SWs could write their suggestions for improving their class in these posts?

A few suggestions I'd make is perhaps increasing damage mitigation and/or piercing damage resistance while shadow slipping. Maybe increase it from 30% to 45%. Scourge Warlocks do slip into the shadow after all and they should be difficult to target. This would improve survivability in PvP.

Another would be to reduce the animation time for a few spells (Hadar's grasp, Arms of Hadar) so it might be better used in PvP.

What is it about the Temptation class that needs to be reworked? (I haven't tried that tree yet).

I think they meant to use shadow walk and not shadowslip. As shadowslip is a drow feature and shadow walk is a warlock feature.

Shadow walk is kind of like a CW's port. but it offers a warlock concealment as well.

"
Shadow Walk

Original warlocks and binders, but not hexblades, have the Shadow Walk class feature.

On your turn, if you move at least 3 squares away from where you started your turn, you gain partial concealment until the end of your next turn. "

That would be perfect for the lock and just what the class needs and what we are SUPPOSE to have. Not sure how they screwed the pooch on that one.

Now look at shadowslip

"Shadowslip is a drow racial feat available to those with cloud of darkness.

When the Drow uses cloud of darkness, the Drow can shift 2 squares as a free action."

I have no clue why on earth they did what they did. It does not even make any since rationally. Why would you steal the lock's dodge mechanic and give us a hack job with the name of a drow feature..

umcjdking · August 2015

If tankiness, armor and defense actually meant anything meaningful in this game, Shadow Slip would be amazing.

But thanks to the ridiculous stat stacking that's available, it's no longer a feasible skill. Shadow Slip should flat out make you untargettable.

vladious1977 · August 2015

umcjdking wrote: »

If tankiness, armor and defense actually meant anything meaningful in this game, Shadow Slip would be amazing.

But thanks to the ridiculous stat stacking that's available, it's no longer a feasible skill. Shadow Slip should flat out make you untargettable.

I still think it would be perfect if they did it right and give us our port/concealment we are suppose to have. I believe they did not give us what we where suppose to have due to it may be a bit OP and too similar to a CW port. The difference being of course ours would give concealment.

greenkrickett · August 2015

I would just like to be able to survive a pull of 3+ like every other class....

ogarious · August 2015

vordayn wrote: »

I'm not an experienced SW by any means, but perhaps the experienced SWs could write their suggestions for improving their class in these posts?

A few suggestions I'd make is perhaps increasing damage mitigation and/or piercing damage resistance while shadow slipping. Maybe increase it from 30% to 45%. Scourge Warlocks do slip into the shadow after all and they should be difficult to target. This would improve survivability in PvP.

Another would be to reduce the animation time for a few spells (Hadar's grasp, Arms of Hadar) so it might be better used in PvP.

What is it about the Temptation class that needs to be reworked? (I haven't tried that tree yet).

We have been, since pre mod 5. We've given them feedback, charts, graphs, options, and everything in between and the only change since then was them breaking harrowstorm.

So yeah. No more help, dig up our posts and figure it out.

ogarious · August 2015

defiantone99 wrote: »

Well, with the new Lifesteal boon, Temp lock may be viable again. That is the SWs only hope atm.

....no, there is another.

Sorry, shameless Star Wars shoutout there. I couldnt help myself.

theycallmetomu · August 2015

Sorry, CWs are the ones with Force Choke, not Warlocks :P

vordayn · August 2015

vladious1977 wrote: »

I think they meant to use shadow walk and not shadowslip. As shadowslip is a drow feature and shadow walk is a warlock feature.

Shadow walk is kind of like a CW's port. but it offers a warlock concealment as well.

"
Shadow Walk

Original warlocks and binders, but not hexblades, have the Shadow Walk class feature.

On your turn, if you move at least 3 squares away from where you started your turn, you gain partial concealment until the end of your next turn. "

That would be perfect for the lock and just what the class needs and what we are SUPPOSE to have. Not sure how they screwed the pooch on that one.

Now look at shadowslip

"Shadowslip is a drow racial feat available to those with cloud of darkness.

When the Drow uses cloud of darkness, the Drow can shift 2 squares as a free action."

I have no clue why on earth they did what they did. It does not even make any since rationally. Why would you steal the lock's dodge mechanic and give us a hack job with the name of a drow feature..

Yes, that definition of shadow walk would be much better than the current shadow slip that warlocks have.

If warlocks are able to 'conceal themselves in the shadows', either the tab function should offer some type of concealment (not quite like stealth, but perhaps with a bit of delay in entering an undetectable mode) and/or much greater bonuses to defense or deflect than the current 30% DR, which as umcjdking said, doesn't give much protection nowadays.

I'll have a look at some of the suggestions previously made, again I'm pretty new to this class; but from playing around with some encounters, it seems there are many that are underperforming and just need a few tweaks here and there to make it viable.

schietindebux · August 2015

There are already one billion posts about improvement for this class, it is not needed to have another endless list of improvements or fixes for this class
If cryptic wants to fix it they will, but since the list of more important things never gets smaller with new buggy mods etc, warlock will stay on the to-do list for ever
There are only few warlock left , so the importance is relative

vordayn · August 2015

schietindebux wrote: »

There are already one billion posts about improvement for this class, it is not needed to have another endless list of improvements or fixes for this class
If cryptic wants to fix it they will, but since the list of more important things never gets smaller with new buggy mods etc, warlock will stay on the to-do list for ever
There are only few warlock left , so the importance is relative

The timing matters too. When were the suggestions made? Before or after our new community manager? Before staff changes at Cryptic?

Plus, this is a new mod. Certain things have changed yet again, especially with the boons and what not, and calculating mitigation, which applies more so in PvP.

Plus, you refer to a list of improvements made by other warlocks - what about new warlock's who want to make suggestions? Their ideas or opinions do not matter?

Also, keeping a list of changes up to date might spur some change. Call me naive, what you will, but offering suggestions is important in an evolving game.

strumslinger · August 2015

Our Executive Producer has stated that we are indeed looking at the SW. I actually made a new one myself recently to see how underpowered it is. Can't be a good CM if I don't experience what you guys are experiencing.

arabatur · August 2015

strumslinger wrote: »

Our Executive Producer has stated that we are indeed looking at the SW. I actually made a new one myself recently to see how underpowered it is. Can't be a good CM if I don't experience what you guys are experiencing.

This is all well and good, but you need to have played a pre-mod 6 SW to realise how badly the class was affected, especially the contentious lifesteal change which negatively impacted a lot of SW players.

glarty · August 2015

vordayn wrote: »

Plus, you refer to a list of improvements made by other warlocks - what about new warlock's who want to make suggestions? Their ideas or opinions do not matter?

Also, keeping a list of changes up to date might spur some change. Call me naive, what you will, but offering suggestions is important in an evolving game.

Misery · August 2015

vordayn wrote: »

schietindebux wrote: »

There are already one billion posts about improvement for this class, it is not needed to have another endless list of improvements or fixes for this class
If cryptic wants to fix it they will, but since the list of more important things never gets smaller with new buggy mods etc, warlock will stay on the to-do list for ever
There are only few warlock left , so the importance is relative

The timing matters too. When were the suggestions made? Before or after our new community manager? Before staff changes at Cryptic?

LOOOOOOOOOOONG before the new community manager, it's started on preview.

strumslinger wrote: »

Our Executive Producer has stated that we are indeed looking at the SW. I actually made a new one myself recently to see how underpowered it is. Can't be a good CM if I don't experience what you guys are experiencing.

Q.Q

charononus · August 2015

strumslinger wrote: »

Our Executive Producer has stated that we are indeed looking at the SW. I actually made a new one myself recently to see how underpowered it is. Can't be a good CM if I don't experience what you guys are experiencing.

Your talk is positive please follow it up with actions. A lot of us have very little trust or faith in the employees of any mmo company at this point. I know I don't. So while you're talking a great game, I hope you back it up with action and we can start to build trust.

lyaise · August 2015

strumslinger wrote: »

Our Executive Producer has stated that we are indeed looking at the SW. I actually made a new one myself recently to see how underpowered it is. Can't be a good CM if I don't experience what you guys are experiencing.

Good news.

Hopefully you can understand the level of frustration felt by players who, since the Mod 6 preview shard, have been telling the team not to introduce the SW changes that subsequently took place.

We can see from the list kindly collated by "glarty" that these issues have been voiced repeatedly and in depth.

I am glad to see you trying out the SW. As a previous poster has said, please be aware that you would only get a full perspective of the pretty awful degradation of the SW from playing experience of how it used to be.

This of course is lost on anyone picking up the class, so the extensive list of SW comments linked above from players who have this experience really needs to be studied.

The inaction of any response, from Mod 6 launch up to the one gladly received in this post, is bound to result in mounting frustration by players who invested time and funds into the SW.

It makes you feel that you need to repeatedly bang the drum ever louder to get noticed - or people have just given up, perceiving that being ignored seemed to be the normal way of things.

So, hopefully!......and not too long

clericalist · August 2015

When people say "viable again", they need to careful what they mean by that. I remember temptation warlocks beating clerics on both field medic and paingiver regardless, and I am talking about a 8k gs sw always outperforming 20k clerics by 3 times on field medic and always beating them in paingiver. If that is what you want to return to then you are simply making an entire other class unviable.

torontodave · August 2015

Just watch the latest dev stream that featured both the EP (executive producer) Rob, and Strongholds guy, Commander Ander.

EP states that the NCL numbers for the SW were underperforming, and that when they do a mass class balance(soon), SW is first on the agenda.

schietindebux · August 2015

clericalist wrote: »

When people say "viable again", they need to careful what they mean by that. I remember temptation warlocks beating clerics on both field medic and paingiver regardless, and I am talking about a 8k gs sw always outperforming 20k clerics by 3 times on field medic and always beating them in paingiver. If that is what you want to return to then you are simply making an entire other class unviable.

Actually its not only the ammount you are able to heal at all that counts
It's the mitigation + heal that prevents your teamates in most cases from getting oneshooted as you should know
Since I play both classes I do know what you mean talling about mod 4
But since warlock do not have any compareable buffs like DC he will stay nothing else than a supporter going temptation
I only play 3 classes lev 70
DC, GWF and Warlock
If there weren't a broken damnation tree the warlock would be nothing else than a profession/invoking dummy because there is no place for this class, not as a support/healer nor damagedealer, nor viable in PVP
Grinding with my crappy GWF is 3 times faster, even DC with damagespec is a cake compared to this class
So what do you propose to do with this class?

vladious1977 · August 2015

metalldjt wrote: »

torontodave wrote: »

Just watch the latest dev stream that featured both the EP (executive producer) Rob, and Strongholds guy, Commander Ander.

EP states that the NCL numbers for the SW were underperforming, and that when they do a mass class balance(soon), SW is first on the agenda.

and we know how this will end up.
there wont be class balance fixes, they will make it OVERPOWRED so that people will play it, like it happend with TRs and DCs in module 5, not to mention they wont fix the problems, they will add more problems to the table.

SW are kinda suppose to be on par with TR's in terms of damage as they are both strikers and offer nothing else really other than SW's non working capstone in temp.

schietindebux · August 2015

vladious1977 wrote: »

metalldjt wrote: »

torontodave wrote: »

Just watch the latest dev stream that featured both the EP (executive producer) Rob, and Strongholds guy, Commander Ander.

EP states that the NCL numbers for the SW were underperforming, and that when they do a mass class balance(soon), SW is first on the agenda.

and we know how this will end up.
there wont be class balance fixes, they will make it OVERPOWRED so that people will play it, like it happend with TRs and DCs in module 5, not to mention they wont fix the problems, they will add more problems to the table.

SW are kinda suppose to be on par with TR's in terms of damage as they are both strikers and offer nothing else really other than SW's non working capstone in temp.

TR offers nothing else than damage??
Do you play this game? I don't think so
I saw TR's in eCC keeping the hole adventurer party cc'd and busy by that....you really think a warlock can do anything like that?

lyaise · August 2015

metalldjt wrote: »

torontodave wrote: »

Just watch the latest dev stream that featured both the EP (executive producer) Rob, and Strongholds guy, Commander Ander.

EP states that the NCL numbers for the SW were underperforming, and that when they do a mass class balance(soon), SW is first on the agenda.

and we know how this will end up.
there wont be class balance fixes, they will make it OVERPOWRED so that people will play it, like it happend with TRs and DCs in module 5, not to mention they wont fix the problems, they will add more problems to the table.

Well lets get the first stage confirmed - that the team is going to do something about it, with hopefully an approximate timescale. (Any rough idea on the timing Strum?)

silvereldunari · August 2015

forget about suggestions they've never listened to them, it's so rageful that they seem oblivious to what we want and do whatever, it took them 6 month to realized that mod 6 was unbalanced and only because so many players left, feels like they have their head up in their clouds and don't read fezes here.

azlanfox · August 2015

strumslinger wrote: »

Our Executive Producer has stated that we are indeed looking at the SW. I actually made a new one myself recently to see how underpowered it is. Can't be a good CM if I don't experience what you guys are experiencing.

You are going to need to get it to the 60+ experience to truly get a feel for the situation.

Misery · August 2015

metalldjt wrote: »

torontodave wrote: »

Just watch the latest dev stream that featured both the EP (executive producer) Rob, and Strongholds guy, Commander Ander.

EP states that the NCL numbers for the SW were underperforming, and that when they do a mass class balance(soon), SW is first on the agenda.

and we know how this will end up.
there wont be class balance fixes, they will make it OVERPOWRED so that people will play it, like it happend with TRs and DCs in module 5, not to mention they wont fix the problems, they will add more problems to the table.

Well, some warlocks that stomp people in pvp now will be called overpowered anyway.

azlanfox wrote: »

strumslinger wrote: »

Our Executive Producer has stated that we are indeed looking at the SW. I actually made a new one myself recently to see how underpowered it is. Can't be a good CM if I don't experience what you guys are experiencing.

You are going to need to get it to the 60+ experience to truly get a feel for the situation.

And that's gonna take a while with new ridiculous ammount of exp required to lvl up after lvl 60.

halaszsandor · August 2015

schietindebux wrote: »

TR offers nothing else than damage??
Do you play this game? I don't think so
I saw TR's in eCC keeping the hole adventurer party cc'd and busy by that....you really think a warlock can do anything like that?

I don't think so as well.
SWs have the habbit to say the magical word striker and they think everything will be solved...

Now that you're finally doing something about Mod 6 - how many more months to correcting the SW?

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