A (tongue-in-cheek) open letter to DCs

arex

Dear Devoted Clerics,

Hi, my name is Articulus Rex and I am a Hunter Ranger. What we HRs do (the pathfinder's amongst us at least) is we root the baddies with AoE and DoT, it is pretty darn effective on the Tiamat cleric mobs if I do say so myself.

You see, here is where my...I mean our (HRs that is) problem with how you 'help' defend the clerics in Tiamat. You see, if you let us root the baddies first, then knock them all over the place, they stay rooted and take the DoT where they land, but if you just run up and knock them out of the way all willy-nilly, it makes it harder to chase them down and kill them. Now my strong grasping roots last for ~14 seconds and do nifty damage to everyone caught in them each second....but only if I can get them rooted before you fling them off into the ether.

So please, if you see a HR (look for the person with a bow), be aware that each of us has a role in Tiamat and even though you get higher scores for knocking the baddies around, victory is easier when we aren't chasing the mobs all over the place. And, please, if you see an HR working on an enemy (or seven), feel free to lend a hand AFTER they get the mobs rooted.

We thank you in advance for you attention to this matter.

AR

;P

bleedinblue755

I would like to agree with you on this I run a cleric and a hunter along with the other classes and I never fully understood how frustrating sunburst was to AOE characters till I got my hunter and wizard and even GWF up to 60 and really started running with groups on a regular basis. Nothing worse than getting a pack of mobs all gathered up to hit them with roots or another effect only to have them spewed all over the place right as you hit the attack button. Sunburst is a nice power for clerics don't get me wrong but many don't know when or where to use it

patsfire

See the thing is, pushing them off the cliff just makes things quicker and easier. So I think the clerics should keep doing that, and the CW should use the ice wall thing that pushes them off as well

birdboy100

As a cleric I have a few things to say, firstly I sunburst because last time I checked I catch more aggro for my heals then any other class so when there are 1000 baddies mobbing just me while everyone else focuses on a boss I need to create some breathing room since no one cares (especially tanks who don't want to build any threat because they don't want to get hit or "try" actually doing their job) that the healer is getting ganged up on because that "well to bad for that cleric at least no baddies are attack me" mentality kills it for me.

If people aren't complaining about sunburst then they are complaining that I'm not a healing machine, who plays online at the very time I logged on to be their own personal Boo Boo kisser. Seriously I didn't get on NW today to follow you around and heal just you all the time. If your health falls below 50% please feel free to use one of the 99 health potions that work just fine, don't get upset at me because I didn't crawl up your HAMSTER the whole dungeon and monitor you specifically the whole way through, I'm not getting paid for this!

Being a lvl 60 cleric endgame wise ain't easy I've learned, it's a thankless job for sure. Nobody wants to be this class seriously there are so few clerics I've noticed, when I que up for anything I'm usually the ONLY CLERIC! I never ever get teamed up with another, I mean I see other clerics running around and all that but we are a rare breed.

It's rough out there for a DC I tell yah, people want you to bend over backwards for them and then want to tell you how to play. It's BS man, but yet tanks don't want to tank because they don't think I'll heal, even though I love to heal, I live for it I want to succeed! I want the group to win but when there are a 100 baddies swarming me alone guess who I'm trying to keep alive first? me.

arex

That's why you should always make sure there is a hunter in your group. I make sure that the baddies stay rooted so they can't come after you.

guarana76

I think it´s all about coordinating the roles. HR and CW root / freeze the mobs at respawn. DPS classes help to kill them. If someone pass through this line and attack the Cleric, Tank blocks and DC sunburst them. And this situation will happen, as oftenly we get stunned right at the respawn moment.

acridbird74

I don't think this letter was meant for you, birdboy100. It sounds like you aren't one of the DCs who sunbursts newly-spawned mobs that are clearly being rooted and controlled by ice. This happens way too frequently and can be a big factor in poor play at the clerics. If that isn't you, good. I main a CW and my second character is a DC. Sunburst is ridiculously annoying when a group of bad things are rooted by HRs, clouded by smoke from TRs, being controlled in an ice block by CWs and aggro'd by a GWF. Control wizards who don't understand the necessity of control can be just as bad with the misunderstood daily, ice storm. That is the giant ice thing that pops out of the ground, sending mobs flying in 360 degrees. It's so stupid to use it when everything is under control. Trying to knock things off the cliff fails more often than it succeeds. More CWs should use oppressive force instead of ice storm, because it stuns the baddies and leaves them prone and grouped together. When knockbacks, repels, sunbursts and pushes are done to a group that is being easily managed and controlled, it makes everyone's jobs much harder than it needs to be. I don't think anyone has a problem with a sunburst to get things off of the cleric, but my teams rarely let the mobs get to you and the clerics when we are able to control.

silktrocity

Your foxes cunning melee will teleport you closer to the targets so you can apply roots.. I've never felt inconvenienced when a DC was throwing guys around. Especially with our increased movement speed.

-17k DC and 14k Trapper

arex

What's your rotation? I haven't found a power that will group all the mobs back up together so I can root them all at once instead of chasing each one down.....is that in the Combat tree? XD

armwald

silktrocity wrote: »

Your foxes cunning melee will teleport you closer to the targets so you can apply roots.. I've never felt inconvenienced when a DC was throwing guys around. Especially with our increased movement speed.

-17k DC and 14k Trapper

You will when teleport off the cliff with them a couple of time

Fox Cunning melee hits 5 targets in an 20" area not 200 " you lose at least 2-3 hits per encounter and rooting single targets is a waste.

It is a beautiful thing 6 baddies spawn HR roots then in the spawn area GWF hammers away on point, TR picks a target then another and your Glass Cannons SW and CW Burn then to a crisp from range meanwhile the DC is at the Cleric to push anything that gets through back into the pile.

I had a run yesterday like this 6 people no problem on the Black Cleric.

armwald

arex wrote: »

What's your rotation? I haven't found a power that will group all the mobs back up together so I can root them all at once instead of chasing each one down.....is that in the Combat tree? XD

You have to group them at the spawn otherwise you have to pick them up one by one ie hit one run to another hit 2 run to another hit three etc get them to chase you and when they grouped for the kill a DC or CW with scatter then for you...lol

acridbird74

armwald wrote: »

You will when teleport off the cliff with them a couple of time

Fox Cunning melee hits 5 targets in an 20" area not 200 " you lose at least 2-3 hits per encounter and rooting single targets is a waste.

It is a beautiful thing 6 baddies spawn HR roots then in the spawn area GWF hammers away on point, TR picks a target then another and your Glass Cannons SW and CW Burn then to a crisp from range meanwhile the DC is at the Cleric to push anything that gets through back into the pile.

I had a run yesterday like this 6 people no problem on the Black Cleric.

@armwald That is precisely how it goes when things are smooth and under control. I was in a match where four of us were controlling a cleric last night. My CW, a GWF, a SW and a DC on the cleric that didn't have to do too much. Some experienced players saw that our cleric was OP at the start and went to the weaker middle cleric to help out. We still finished our cleric rounds first and our team went on to win the match. It's a beautiful thing when it works so well. I mean, we were melting the adds and would have a few seconds to breathe with nothing happening. Then they spawn and immediately I drop icy terrain, steal time, SW does his/her thing, GWF does his/her thing... then dropping dailies. It was amazing. There is absolutely zero need to push anything around at spawn points. If anything, people should go there and try to draw adds that slipped by to the spawn points so everything can get knotted up, controlled and properly dispatched into the ether.

mahburg

^^^^
This also if they are grouped and the GWF is buffing the team and their companions (along with other classes) then you keep maximum DPS online and it goes much sweeter.

teslokie

We all had to change our strategy and play-style for Tiamat in some cases. Your good old bread and butter moves aren't going to work in every situation, especially if you root them near the clerics...they can still attack anyhow. Sunburst effs up my Tyrannical threat as well but I just go with it and pull aggro near the edge and tyran multiple targets in case one gets thrown....the ones that are left are melted and bashed to death. Why not anticipate a target near the thrown zone then trap the ones that are grouped so i can curse them and so on? Just one more thing please to all GWF's unless you can kill with one swipe you have threat built into your character whether you stacked it or not, if you are going to swing like a berzerk neanderthal with your tongue hanging out slashing at everything that moves as you do this try to get the HAMSTER away from the clerics....pull.

mahburg

^^^^^

Best set a Gwf can run with is Battle Fury (Group Buff) Unstoppable (reduces need for healing) restoring Strike (Buff) and Come and get it to bomb the Spawn area when the adds are trapped there
On the heads Use a lantern first and ignore Come and get it in case you get pulled off the cliff, And spam Battle Fury and unstoppable.

popezen01

We use sunburst when the baddies are on the cleric. If you root them on the cleric that is a sure fire way to lose Tiamat. Root them AFTER I throw them off the cleric, or better yet before they get there.

armwald

popezen01 wrote: »

We use sunburst when the baddies are on the cleric. If you root them on the cleric that is a sure fire way to lose Tiamat. Root them AFTER I throw them off the cleric, or better yet before they get there.

Which is when it should be used not if they are controlled in the spawn area. I have seen this more than I have seen them thrown off the cleric,

Chasing individual targets is a 'sure fire way to lose Tiamat '

I think that was the OP point.

armadeonx

I ONLY use Sunburst when they get to the cleric - if they reach the cleric I'm not going to rely on someone I don't know doing the right thing cos if they were doing the right thing the mob wouldn't have reached the cleric.

I stay off the cleric and spam heals on my group + at-wills to lower enemy defences (High Prophet) and only slide back to Sunburst as necc then away again so I don't lure.

Any DC using sunburst on mobs not on the cleric should not be in Tiamat as they have no awareness of the requirements of other classes.

caharan25

Firstly YOU do not speak for ME. Secondly learn your class and roll in team fights before you come to the forums and make a post like this. I'm going to break down tiamat for you as a pathfinder. Before I continue I'll go ahead and mention that I main a pathfinder hunter ranger. I also play a DC.

Defending the cleric is about defending the cleric. Not your roots, not your dots. The farther away from them the fight is pushed the faster you get to tiamat. This also keeps dragon breath off of them as the group should be pushing out with each sunburst from the cleric. This is where the ranger comes in. When the cleric pushes be on your constricting root while the enemy is mid air so that by the time your cast animation is done and the enemy is landing so is your arrow. Thus rooting them before they can push back toward the cleric (perfect time for controlled cw push) maxing cleric progression (not your few seconds of damage). Same thing with hindering shot. Fire it when enemies are mid air sio its hits when they land allowing you to set yourself up for stance switch.
Pop your fox and push toward the cliff/red barrier whichever it may be. (ALL pushes from DC/CW should be controlled as possible to max progress) to minimize how much enemies push back. When in range hindering strike to root them (as far away from cleric as possible). Fox them to max damage then finish with your stamina gain. By this time sunburst should be ready and you repeat. (If not push them with your daily to squeeze a couple more seconds out)

For Tiamate use careful attack. It literally can make or break the run. It's a huge chunk of damage and it's how you make up the points you lose for playing the middle man control between the DC and CW during cleric stage. Use your hunters's teamwork for the debuff and go crazy with encounters (just remember to reapply ht/ca every other rotion to max party dps and help mitigate a bit of damage).

A hunter if played correctly is a vital roll in the cleric portion of the encounter, but it is in fact only a portion. That said the DC is looking after your health while being another major part in the fight. It is your job to know how to play your class, especially if youre going to rant on a forum about someone else playing wrong. (when from what i can tell youre the one playing incorrectly)(does that mean the dc throws like a mad person? No. each push should be strategic and controlled.)

armadeonx

^^^^ like this (no 'like' button yet? )

davidagaldo

caharan25 explained it best. Running a DC and HR, I would lure the enemy to the edge and burst them off, same with the HR, lure to edge, root, and let the push take place.

monktoasty

Cute, hunters who been carried by DC the whole span of the games life, crying because they just now learned how to use their class.

bagoat

My favorite part of caharan's post was the phrase "pop your fox". I only play a GWF so I don't know what it means but it sounded sexy

yourenext2die

patsfire said:

See the thing is, pushing them off the cliff just makes things quicker and easier. So I think the clerics should keep doing that, and the CW should use the ice wall thing that pushes them off as well

Agreed, they just have to work on their timing. If there is no cliff around or a bridge then they have to make sure that nobody on the team is being overwhelmed and in need for the seperation because if there isn't, then what's the point. Mid way going through a button cycle and hitting Lurkers assault and about to Lash...and then Woooosh.. The enemy is being blown away 50'. lol It can be very annoying at times.