Courage Breaker Math

rustlord

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my math goes 30 + 30 + 30 + 30 = 120;
How do you debuff a target for 120% less damage? Can't we suppose this is clamped at 100 then. Or is there some hidden mathematics involved like how Elven was previously computed x = 1 / ( 1 base + 1 modifier )

Speaking of hidden secret stuff ... can you list me the damage types that this actually debuffs? I'm pretty sure I've used this on a CW and most proc damage still goes through.

Answers appreciated! I'll give you a popcorn.

kweassa

rust, I believe it works the same way as CC resist does.

For example, let's say someone hits you a 10k attack with a crit hit, but before he made that attack you hit him with CB. The math is multiplicative and not a straigh "minus X % from the top of that damage" as most of us are inlcined to think. So the math would be, IMO;

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Damage modifer = {1 + 0.75(critsev)} / {1 + 1.20(CB)} = 1.75/2.20 = 0.79
Final damage = 10,000 x 0.79 = 7,900

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I believe all damage debuffs work in this manner except Feytouched, which, I think just straight-up hacks away 18% from the top. All the rest of damage debuffs would factor in multiplicative as the above suggested equation.

So, if you are a Whisperknife that landed rank4 VP, rank4 DHS with Distracting Knives, procced the Feytouched debuff and then landed a CB... and someone hits you with a 50k attack... I believe the debuff equation would be:

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Damage modifier = 1 / (1+ 0.12(VP) + 0.20(DHS) + 0.05(Distracting Knives) + 1.20(CB) = 1/2.57 = 0.39

Feytouched Debuff = 50,000 x (1 - 0.18(Feytouched)) = 41,000
Damge Modifier Debuff = 41,000 x Damage Modifier = 41,000 x 0.39 = 15,990

Actual debuff amount = 100 x (15,990/50,000) = 32%

So the 50,000 attack has been reduced to 32% of its original value, or has been debuffed for 68%.




■ The effects of "Damage Modifier Debuffs"

VP + DHS + DK + CB = 12% + 20% + 5% +120% = 157%

So that 157% "Damage Modifier Debuff", actually equates to "61% damage debuff", as in "100 incoming damage will be reduced to 39"

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This is my theory on the debuffs. So, rank4 CB with 120% "damage debuff", actually means "120% debuff value added to the damage modifier", so the "true debuff" value of CB would be calculated this way:

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■ True Effects of CB

Damage Modifier when r4 CB is hit = 1 / (1 + 1.20(CB)) = 0.45

Hence, 120% "Damage Modifier Debuff" from CB, equates to a 55% true debuff... as in, "100 incoming damage is reduced down to 45". You reduce the incoming attack to little less than half of its original value

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rustlord

@kweassa Thanks! Makes perfect sense now.

I haven't used that daily since module 3, and only for the slow factor against GWFs. Man, how they rage when CB goes through their sprint. Messes 'em up good. I've just been neglecting the debuff though. Glad I didn't impulsively put 4 points into it for nothing. Not that I don't have a lot of em, but nothing should ever go to waste ;P

drkbodhi

That is how it was explained to me a while ago. I still do not understand why they would leave it the way it is.

kweassa

drkbodhi wrote: »

That is how it was explained to me a while ago. I still do not understand why they would leave it the way it is.

Very long time ago I assumed that the percentage of the listed damage debuff was directly mentioning how the damase would be reduced in proportion -- as in, 90% damage debuff from CB means 100 incoming damage was reduced to 10. But then I realized that even when I hit CB, classes like CW or GWF still hurt bad.

I was also confused of what it meant when I hit damage debuff stuff like VP and DHS at the same time on a target with CB hit... that clearly brings the amount of damage debuff over 100%... how can it do negative damage? Does that mean the other guy heals me when he attacks me?

So naturally, after a while I figure the multiplicative math, commonly known as Cryptic Math to long time fans of Cryptic games, was also in works here. I've not tested thoroughly whether the above equations are correct, but it roughly seems to match and frankly that's the only other way to calculate it, if the percentage does not mean actual proportions of incoming damage.


So, the following are the "damage modifier" values (you multiply this to incoming damage) for WK powers at rank4:

■ VP =12% damage debuff = 0.89
■ DHS = 20% damage debuff = 0.83
■ DHS with Distracting Knives = 0.8 damage modifier
■ CB = 120% damage debuff = 0.45 damage modifier

■ VP + DHS = 0.75 damage modifier
■ VP + DHS(w/DK) = 0.73 damage modifier

So, this gives another strong point to WKs which many people still don't realize. Assuming the WK uses both its paragon powers, of all the classes in the game, no other class can single-handedly debuff incoming damage this much. When you apply r4 VP with r4 DHS(w/DK), that's basically the same thing as getting 25% more DR against that guy for around 10 seconds.

Now, if you have AdvPos in works, that's another 30% DR, so even without Negation, a WK using his signature powers with AdvPos has +55% DR against the guy he has marked for combat. With the base DR of the TR and tenacity in works, this is already at the max DR cap... so I think rustlord is right in when he suggests WKs go with Elven Battle. We already have stuff that is on par, or even stronger, than Negation working for us, not to mention Elven gives WKs a sort of a perma-deflect status against incoming CCs.

Cookie cutter MIs don't know this. Unless its in the very, very high end of PvP where even a difference in miliseconds count, in 99% of the situations WK is not behind MIs in any way. The only difference is WKs need a fluid and instant reactions which don't rely on a set clock-work routine, while MIs can just meticulously follow a set routine, so MIs are easier to handle.

It's like a racing game where you have a supercar that is very difficult to handle, but absolutely versatile in the correct hands, and then a stock car which is balanced and good in every way, but not so specialized.