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peonlicious
Member Posts: 36 Arc User
Hello all,
i would like to talk about some stuff that is bothering me, i will just focus on general stuff and pve, please dont start to talk here about what is wrong with pvp/class balance etc. I play now about 1 month, and i think i have enough knowledge now to state my opinion. Since i am pretty new, i think my experience with the game meets the views of a lot ppl that are new to NW. I hope this stuff gets some attention from an admin, and reaches the 1 or other dev... hope dies last u know
Well i would like to start telling you how i found the game, i saw a video on youtube, featuring different mmos, and NW seemed nice, so i read 1 or 2 reviews and liked what i read there. "Nice game", "casual friendly", "u can get nice stuff through farming" etc were some words i read there, it was so full promise. All these statements, were from reviews pre mod 6. I started (btw after the exp change) had a lot of fun till 60, and then poof all motivation was gone. I needed about 5 days with at least 8+ hours grind to reach 70. Probably could have done it in 4 days, if i had known all the stuff i know today.
Ok we reached the first big topic: Exp-requirement 60-70, overflow exp/reward, difficulty and respec:
exp:
The exp need to lvl past 60, is plain horrible. I don't mind grinding, if it serves a purpose, or i have content for this lvl. But in NW u dont have real content between 60-70, there isn't any stuff u do that will benefit u after u reach 70. So maybe u should rethink the journey from 60-70 and there exp requirement. I know strongholds is comming pretty soon, but from what i heard, the exp from the guildquests is just an applied pflaster on a broken bone
difficulty and respec:
Well killing monsters also got pretty tough after going to the drowned shore. It was way past of my characters ability, i tried then different skills and setups, nothing helped. And i will be honest i bought ad, and got an Angel as companion. With lvl 65 or so, still stuck in the drowned shore, i was at least able to exp there. With 68 i did go to spinward rise for my weapon, just to relive this hell of not being able to do anything.
That is were i started reading the forums. And i learned that some paths are just not viable in this mod. So i needed a respec. As i saw not even 1 free respec, that annoyed me already. So be it i bought some zen, and did a respec. I was now able to get my weapon.
lets make a cut here, i dont know what purpose this difficulty serves for solo content. I also wonder if there were some tests, before rising the difficulty. I am sure it was a lot easier for ppl who came pre mod 6, they had some equipment, had some enchants etc, stuff a newbie doesnt have. Do you test this stuff before releasing it? It quite felt like a no past 60.
overflow-exp and rewards: there is not much to say, the exp needed is way to high. It takes me about 1 week with 8+ hours of play to fill it (+33% exp socketed). And the rewards are bad to say it in a kind manner. 5 rank 5's? i get this in 10 minutes by killing monsters. 5k RP, exp tomes etc, all this is just way to low for this much grind. I wont give any solutions to this, there are plenty ways to fix this posted on the forums.
After reaching 70, u will have about 1,6k GS, which will let you enter T1 dungeons. now we will feel the echo of the increased difficulty and a new problem approaches, no rewarding dungeons/skrimish.
My expiriences were just bad with dungeons after reaching 70. To progress you need to start doing T1 dungeons. So what happened? I queued for T1 dungeons. There were 3 different ways this played out:
a) pt instant shattered
b) pt was way to low to succed the dungeon
c) kicked after a few minutes, just because you are to weak
There should be a middle ground, which will let you gear up to do T1 dungeons, but there isn`t any way. But why dont ppl try to make the T1 dungeos? Even with a low pt? After doing regulary fast T1 runs, the answer seems pretty clear to me.
It just isn`t rewarding enough. Why stuck 30-45 mins with a low party, where u probably wont get anything of use from the dungeon? I can understand that anybody would rather, rush through it in 15 mins and get nothing, then to need the double or triple amount of time for the same result, which still is nothing. From what i heard the lootsystem pre mod 6 was awesome. U actually made AD through farming dungeons, i dont like the current system. If i dedicate, 30 mins for a dungeon, i want at least some reward. But right now the stuff inside the chests isnt worth the key.
Well i said AD so i want to say some words to it to. AD generation is horrible. I dont mind that i have a 24k refinementlimit per day. But i do mind that there arent ways for making constant ad. I know the leadership-armys. I think, leadership should not award any AD at all. How is it justified, that ppl make (depending on the size of there farm and how far they are progressed) 1 million AD per day? A guildmate makes about 3million per week, by making professions on 50 chars. This takes him about 1 hour each day. I who play several hours the game, am happy if i even make 300k per week. Maybe the developers had to much beer the day before they implemented it, cause the numbers should be the other way around :P
I hope you guys are seriously reconsider this situation, cause it is a dead end. I could still go on and increase the WoT but i will stop here.
The next may sound harsh, offensive etc, but it isn't meant like that in any way. I bought AD and i bought alot of zen in this short time. I mainly bought zen because i support every game i play. But let me tell you this form the bottom of my heart. I will rather support the AD sellers then to buy anymore zen. All of the above are really important topics, but the last is what bothers me the most. Of course the incapability to farm ad through dungeons etc, intensifies the the bad economic circumstances we have right now. I just hope u will think about the stuff a little and start taking actions.
so far greets
peon
i would like to talk about some stuff that is bothering me, i will just focus on general stuff and pve, please dont start to talk here about what is wrong with pvp/class balance etc. I play now about 1 month, and i think i have enough knowledge now to state my opinion. Since i am pretty new, i think my experience with the game meets the views of a lot ppl that are new to NW. I hope this stuff gets some attention from an admin, and reaches the 1 or other dev... hope dies last u know
Well i would like to start telling you how i found the game, i saw a video on youtube, featuring different mmos, and NW seemed nice, so i read 1 or 2 reviews and liked what i read there. "Nice game", "casual friendly", "u can get nice stuff through farming" etc were some words i read there, it was so full promise. All these statements, were from reviews pre mod 6. I started (btw after the exp change) had a lot of fun till 60, and then poof all motivation was gone. I needed about 5 days with at least 8+ hours grind to reach 70. Probably could have done it in 4 days, if i had known all the stuff i know today.
Ok we reached the first big topic: Exp-requirement 60-70, overflow exp/reward, difficulty and respec:
exp:
The exp need to lvl past 60, is plain horrible. I don't mind grinding, if it serves a purpose, or i have content for this lvl. But in NW u dont have real content between 60-70, there isn't any stuff u do that will benefit u after u reach 70. So maybe u should rethink the journey from 60-70 and there exp requirement. I know strongholds is comming pretty soon, but from what i heard, the exp from the guildquests is just an applied pflaster on a broken bone
difficulty and respec:
Well killing monsters also got pretty tough after going to the drowned shore. It was way past of my characters ability, i tried then different skills and setups, nothing helped. And i will be honest i bought ad, and got an Angel as companion. With lvl 65 or so, still stuck in the drowned shore, i was at least able to exp there. With 68 i did go to spinward rise for my weapon, just to relive this hell of not being able to do anything.
That is were i started reading the forums. And i learned that some paths are just not viable in this mod. So i needed a respec. As i saw not even 1 free respec, that annoyed me already. So be it i bought some zen, and did a respec. I was now able to get my weapon.
lets make a cut here, i dont know what purpose this difficulty serves for solo content. I also wonder if there were some tests, before rising the difficulty. I am sure it was a lot easier for ppl who came pre mod 6, they had some equipment, had some enchants etc, stuff a newbie doesnt have. Do you test this stuff before releasing it? It quite felt like a no past 60.
overflow-exp and rewards: there is not much to say, the exp needed is way to high. It takes me about 1 week with 8+ hours of play to fill it (+33% exp socketed). And the rewards are bad to say it in a kind manner. 5 rank 5's? i get this in 10 minutes by killing monsters. 5k RP, exp tomes etc, all this is just way to low for this much grind. I wont give any solutions to this, there are plenty ways to fix this posted on the forums.
After reaching 70, u will have about 1,6k GS, which will let you enter T1 dungeons. now we will feel the echo of the increased difficulty and a new problem approaches, no rewarding dungeons/skrimish.
My expiriences were just bad with dungeons after reaching 70. To progress you need to start doing T1 dungeons. So what happened? I queued for T1 dungeons. There were 3 different ways this played out:
a) pt instant shattered
b) pt was way to low to succed the dungeon
c) kicked after a few minutes, just because you are to weak
There should be a middle ground, which will let you gear up to do T1 dungeons, but there isn`t any way. But why dont ppl try to make the T1 dungeos? Even with a low pt? After doing regulary fast T1 runs, the answer seems pretty clear to me.
It just isn`t rewarding enough. Why stuck 30-45 mins with a low party, where u probably wont get anything of use from the dungeon? I can understand that anybody would rather, rush through it in 15 mins and get nothing, then to need the double or triple amount of time for the same result, which still is nothing. From what i heard the lootsystem pre mod 6 was awesome. U actually made AD through farming dungeons, i dont like the current system. If i dedicate, 30 mins for a dungeon, i want at least some reward. But right now the stuff inside the chests isnt worth the key.
Well i said AD so i want to say some words to it to. AD generation is horrible. I dont mind that i have a 24k refinementlimit per day. But i do mind that there arent ways for making constant ad. I know the leadership-armys. I think, leadership should not award any AD at all. How is it justified, that ppl make (depending on the size of there farm and how far they are progressed) 1 million AD per day? A guildmate makes about 3million per week, by making professions on 50 chars. This takes him about 1 hour each day. I who play several hours the game, am happy if i even make 300k per week. Maybe the developers had to much beer the day before they implemented it, cause the numbers should be the other way around :P
I hope you guys are seriously reconsider this situation, cause it is a dead end. I could still go on and increase the WoT but i will stop here.
The next may sound harsh, offensive etc, but it isn't meant like that in any way. I bought AD and i bought alot of zen in this short time. I mainly bought zen because i support every game i play. But let me tell you this form the bottom of my heart. I will rather support the AD sellers then to buy anymore zen. All of the above are really important topics, but the last is what bothers me the most. Of course the incapability to farm ad through dungeons etc, intensifies the the bad economic circumstances we have right now. I just hope u will think about the stuff a little and start taking actions.
so far greets
peon
0
Comments
While I'm all on your side re. the general sentiment of your post, and especially that Dungeoneering isn't rewarding enough, the middle ground thing isn't entirely true...
- Run "normal" Dungeons. Yes, it'll take a while, but you'll find a lot of acceptable rare gear, some of which you can use directly, some of which you can sell on AH for a thousand AD +/-, and if you run with other Lvl 70ies, you should also get mostly Lvl 70 or 69 drops. Not really challenging, you can map out the dungeons, as these do have the same layout and mobs they'll have on epic level.
- Do campaigns. This will get you RP => better Artifact(s), Main- and Off-Hand. This will also get you boons, which boost your char's strength w/o adding to ILvl. This will also, however, mean another sort of grind for some 4 to 6 weeks. And you won't get good gear (beyond those random blues from normal Dungeons) there unless you keep grinding for a few more weeks (which I personally find very disappointing...). Also, stay out of Icewind Dale and Well of Dragons, at least for starters - once you got a few boons from Sharandar and Dread Ring, you'll find this way less punishing...
As said i came after mod 6, close to the exp change at the end of june. Fact is a new player doesn`t have a free respec. Also there isn`t any indicator that some paths are not viable past 60.
Yes u can run normal dungeons. I did that too for some days. But it isn`t very good. First because u will get "just" 3 blue items, the chest is not worth opening for a blue because u wil pay 3k ad each time. Most 70`s are sold for theire rp-worth, and the lvl 69 are selling very slow, sometimes not all.
I do completely agree with the campaigns though. But if i had to do everything again, i would probably be in WoD from day 1. The dragon runs, are the only rewarding thing there is. Running an hour IWD is mostly effective as the 25 mins in WoD for the dragon run.
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I recently just leveld up a paladin to 61. I figured "hey, lets take advantage of the double EXP boost" I ALSO bought the 900 zen double EXP boost as well so I had 400% EXP boost and THEN I even added 3x Azure rank 7s for another boost!
All that said it took me only like 4 hours to get to 60 (which is a joke IMO and should take longer) but that said I decided to level to 61. I actually still had my 900zen double exp boost through nearly 2/3rds of that level!
What was RIDICULOUS was that it took me about 1.5 hours of playing to get to 61. That was nearly the SAME amount of time it to me to get to level 30 from the START!
The progression 1-60 is probably too easy - especially with all the double EXP events and double EXP zen items.
However leveling to 61, I had something like 430% EXP boost and it felt ADEQUATE. What I mean by that is it felt like I didnt have ANY EXP boost at all. Each quest would give me like 1-1.5 bars of the level....
So what it seems needs to happen is the EXP required to hit 70 honestly needs to be re-adjusted. Each level should take roughly 1/2 the current EXP values.
ANOTHER issue is modules 1-3 content. This content should be scaled DOWN to leveling ranges so players can ALSO start their module experience while leveling. When a lvl 62 player logs in, he should be able to run around completing sharandar quests for his boons. Its all time gated anyways so by the time he gets to the 3rd "zone" the mobs could easily be a much higher level there... But it allows him to get a jump start and unlock boons. It also creates a form of "progression" where "area 1" is maybe 62-64 mobs. "area 2" in sharandar can be 64-66. Then the final area could be lvl 66-68 mobs.
So its now time AND level gated. But gives more access to more areas to level up.
Mod 2 could mimic that and be for an average of 64-68 players.
Mod 3 could start at 66-68 and dwarven valley could be more 68-70.
This would be a MASSIVE improvement for new players to get boons, unlock them, and have more options on where to quest.
Not to be deliberately contrary or anything but ... isn't the fact that it takes months to respond to anything in a significant manner a problem in and of itself? Months of low activity due to player disenfranchisement is brutal on your player count. If the fundamental process by which problems are addressed is sluggish, that process needs to be refined. In the 21st century, businesses need to be agile in handling problems, or else they go out of business.
On the other hand, i have 0 experience managing MMOs, so maybe this is entirely typical. All I can really say is, hearing that it takes months for things to get done feels me with more anxiety about the game than the problems themselves.
Oh, also, insert my mandatory request for a double RP weekend in conjunction with strongholds here.
As someone who has spent YEARS beta testing and even alpha testing multiple MMOs, I can tell you for a fact that Neverwinter's bug fix schedule is typical of most every MMO. You just need to really understand what all it takes to fix just one bug. It's not something that can happen overnight, and unless it's actually game breaking, the devs will not take a game down to work on a fix (this is true of every MMO, not just Neverwinter).
Oh, and I also would like a double RP weekend at some point in the not too distant future.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
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it already happen years ago, i am sure anyone who played during 2001-2005 when other game just had major class balancings and nerfs which drove many players away, and then within few months, the game chat just fell thru and devs had to create back up chat format, then they release expansion and they have distribution and printing problem, and then 1 month later, former CEO decide to shut down just as the game were begin to being polished before it got chance to stay active.
it happen with Turbinegames Co, then used for 2 other games with same game engine which was had better success.
so, Sturm, i hope you were aware what we players were facing similar issues, it used to be lot of fun and now we feel "punished", and now we are seeing "many months" to get this fix, that what happened back in 2005.
Devs, my advice to the team, dont put off too long, players have limited patience and a need to entertian while playing, but not weeks and weeks of waiting.
dev teams from all gaming firms should be aware and not to repeat same mistakes.
if i were a captian of dev team, i would adjusting scale back with small percentages instead of making drastic changes that isnt popular by not having the nerf to hurt any classes.
1 more advice to the team, only review those mobs in "elite" 70-73 levels on overland zones and scale back difficulties and then worry about dungeons later.
players now doesnt want to run some epics since the rewards are too weak and doesnt match how hard the runs.
i would start with Sharandar first before redoing Dread Ring and Well of dragons, and re-release one at a time, so you have time for next refixing challenges.
(I feel the urge to give a sad "sigh" periodically - haven't played the game in 2-3 weeks now) . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Except in this case, I'm not rallying about bugs. I know bugs are a PITA. I used to work as a tester of sorts (startup firm. It didn't start up). You find one bug, but that means there's 10 more you didn't find. Sure, I get that. I'm not actually complaining about the bugs or the lag. That's not the issue. (For me. I don't speak for everyone, obvs).
The issue is that there are things that are working-as-intended that are destroying the game. Finding a bug is difficult because you don't know where to look. Changing how the game is intended to function doesn't have that caveat.
But, I mean, even if we just accept that "that's how MMOs are" my general objection is, well, if an industry's standard is such that participants of that industry cannot survive by said standard, then the industry standard has to change. The playerbase is quite visibly near universally disgusted with four month wait times on these issues, and something needs to be done to address that. Saying "that's just typical for the industry" isn't really saying much at all. "Deal with it, or don't have MMOs in general!" is basically just saying "yeah, everyone should probably just go outside."
Which, okay, that's probably good advice.
EDIT: Okay, I'm too lazy to rewrite this to keep my silly ending line while still adding new content, so pretend this is a separate post.
Part of the issue is that the way people interact with creators (MMOs, webcomics, whatever) in the age of the internet is that they expect their voices to be heard. I mean, even without actual changes made to the game code, it would help if we the player base felt our voices were heard. And I get that there've been a few posts that try and do that. Unfortunately, they all seem insincere, because they don't say what the player base wants to hear, nor do they explain why it is that they're not saying what the player base wants to hear. There's no suggestions for what material changes they're planning on making. There's just suggestions of suggestions, essentially.
There is no clear pathway to the future. People have expectations. If you don't give them expectations, they think you're nothing but vapor. If you give them expectations and then dash them, people think you're unreliable. Unfortunately, mod 6 has included a bit of both.
While mod 6 is generally considered to be a bad mod, please don't confuse the drop in players before a major expansion release with people leaving the game for good.
All MMOs see a drop in players in the weeks/months leading up to a new expansion. This is because players decide to take a break while they wait for new content. This is a well-documented phenomenon.
- What feedback has been given to the Devs?
- What is their response to it?
- When will we see changes based on that feedback in the game?
The account wide companions
1) Companion that could solo a dragon
2) 2/3rd of our dungeons are gone
3) Heroics rewards saved from Mod 5 providing Mod 6 awards
4) Giving away BIS PVP equipment after people fully lvld BI to make BIS PVP equipment
5)Introduced legendary mounts with stats
6) weapon enchants that put a debuff on the user instead of the target
7) Introducing RP for heroics and promptly nerfing it
8) Dragon Hoard nerf without communication, followed with a "we are looking into it", followed with a its WAI
9) Changing Dungeon Delves so chest will not open without a 5k AD key
perma-AP buffs
10) Delayed mod launch
We need a wall of shame to track all of these mod 6 "features"
and yet all the changes they have made to mod 6 over the past few months have done nothing but push more players away. I mean every single change was so bad it almost appeared deliberate in making the game less fun and therefore more people went poof just so this thing can get shut down faster.
Needless to say I have zero confidence they won't actually make things worse as time continues on.
Execs don't see it as profitable and want the game off the books
Devs see it as a thankless job where all we do is HAMSTER. So they want to get moved to better more thankful projects
I doubt anyone wants this game to improve besides the players, everyone else wants it to just go away
Like bring back a dungeon. I think they are holding out to redo the dungeon (strip out parts to shorten the runs) when everyone would probably be happy with just scaling the zone to lvl 70 content and publishing it.
At least publish a release schedule for the dungeons so we have something to look forward to or how about a big foundry update so some of our more creative minds can entertain us while the developers focus on more AD sinks. Even a large texture pack for foundry could inspire a lot of development form our foundry people.
He started after Mod6, he didn't get a free respec, as he had nothing to spec back in April.
Mod 6 made many classes almost unplayable--but how would you know that if you were new. You would expect to have all of the choices available. On a side note, I would not have gotten so entrenched in a GF if I knew then what I know now. And that is at least a playable class.