Tiamat Strategy by character types -add your own!

browntj007

Having been on over 50 winning raids so far and played many characters achieving the top spot several times, I've noticed that some people are using abilities and others are perhaps un-aware. In general, study your abilities and powers and adjust...what works individually may not be the best for a group. Use powers that boost everyone. The idea is use combat multipliers that bring up everyone's total DPS, not just YOURS. Glory hounds need to go elsewhere - cooperate and graduate. Everybody wins. Killing enemy isn't the goal - keeping them off the clerics so the blue bar increases IS. So buy time anyway you can.

Clerics - position yourself next to cleric to protect

a. Sunburst : Use this knock back enemy away from the clerics or the group
b. Astral Seal - USE IT, but sparingly...twice is enough to benefit. In case you didn't know, a single astral seal is worth thousands of healed hit points against heads...if you're dead you can't do DPS, so live with the lag or get a better connection. Cast on as many different enemy as possible when defending clerics to save those DPS guys who don't appreciate you anyway! ; }
c. Hallowed ground - at least + 15% increased offense and defense in a huge area of effect
d. Astral shield - yellow circle of love that protects. Adds 30% in defense for those fighters engaged.
e. Chains of light - does damage as well as immob'ing buying time for the blue bar to rise.

Archers - position yourself a ways back behind the clerics to protect.

a. stay in the back and use Split the Sky for area effect over enemy groups - it also reduces resistance and slows.
b. fire off Thorn Ward to reduce area defenses in an area
c. Be prepared to rush in and pick up fallen, then Escape out yourself
d. Split Shot is good for affecting multiple targets - if they agro on you even better - not affecting 3 clerics then

Guardian fighters

a. Into the Fray - an awesome power that increases speed of everyone near { time saved }, AND action points plus temp HP. Use it to boost everyone's speed when going from head to head to buy time for actual killing. Recharges fast
b. My own DPS for this guy isn't great. I position right in front of the cleric and intercept anything that ALWAYS gets through the ring of GWF and TRs. Agro to profit on time for the blue bar.
c. I'm not sure a tank build is workable without a lot of help. I switch to Weapon Master to affect multiple enemies per swing and reduce resistance overall on multiple targets

Control Wizards - position yourself right behind cleric

a. Ice Storm is the obvious choice - affecting a large area and pushing back enemy away from the blue bar clerics. Again - killing isn't the solution here, building that blue bar up as fast as possible is
b. Cold spells that immob enemy. Concentrate on those nearest the clerics like Icy Terrain and Ray of Frost
c. Time Steal - stuns and immob's enemy, buying time.
d. Storm Pillar - use on dragon heads over and over, but not to defend clerics
e. Shard of avalanche - a bowling ball that knocks em down - save for enemy right next to that cleric youre defending when all else is recharging

Someone else has to fill in the missing character types - no experience.


All:

1. Use Lanterns on tiamat heads { not everyone choose black either } The combat buff is worth it in damage
2. Since keeping the 3 clerics free is critical, position the DC and CW right at the cleric and use push back powers to benefit the group the most. Fighters - watch the clerics and help clear the clerics from enemy - you can't agro every one.
3. Learn the red dragon circles to know which breath type is coming. Easy to memorize.
4. MOVE to the sides up close next to the heads, fighter and thieves! When attacking the heads, I've seen people swinging at air too many times and that head health bar ain't dropping.
5. Companions - healers are the best - they DO add in a little, so don't forget to bring one.
6. Put a single dragonade potion in your belt before going in, use it once inside. When you pick up a gem it will auto go in your belt and be ready for use.
7. Those useless horns of battle can speed you up and save precious seconds
.

sudnd3th

I'll toss in my experience as a TR, haven't managed to get a clearing group yet but I can tell you what helps the most on clerics.

Encounter Powers Should be at least the be:

Smoke Bomb - Drop on top of clerics so anything that dashes and attacks the cleric on spawn is stunned. Us TR's need
to remember to work together and cycle them so we have one on the cleric always.

Path of the Blade - Great for getting aggro so you can pull things and kite them off cleric.

Lashing Blade (my preference) - High spike damage to help out on dragons and summoners.

You also need Sly Flourish to help out (Increased Damage for all with broken armor debuff on last strike of combo)

darkpathslp

Warlocks
Position yourself between the two clerics and try to kill the female demons as their charge attacks usually are what kill most people.

This allows you to build AP fast for dailies which you can use to clean up whatever side is lagging.

Consider using the white clicky as our shadow sprint will prevent us from freezing allowing us to swoop in to unfreeze our comrades.

On dragon heads start in close for faster hand of blight attackage than at 50% back out with dreadtheft so your able to engage other dragon heads faster we cannot make the jump and shadow sprint does not get us across "I found this out the hard way!"

williamreedy

This is the most backward OP I have ever read. Why would you EVER position a DC and a CW next to the clerics when you can position them where they spawn. This is for SEVERAL reasons;

1. You can perma-stun with a CW using Icy Terrain, Steal Time, and Shard of the Endless Avalanche so the group can kill the mob.

2. I would never use Ice Storm to break up the mobs, since it moves the direction of the fight in too many directions. Oppressive Force keeps the enemies Dazed and stacked up so they can be AoE'd to death by you and the party.

3. During Clerics phase, the heads DO NOT target CLERICS with their breath attacks, they target PLAYERS. So why would you crowd clerics to have breath attacks aimed right for your cleric.

4. Why would you just continuously knock the enemies back when killing them takes you out of danger of taking damage and killing them gives you the ability to mount after clerics phase is complete.

5. Using knockback effects can actually get members of your party killed, especially TRs using Duelist's Flurry, GWFs using Threatening Rush, GFs using the equivalent of Threatening Rush, and HRs using Marauder's Rush. By knocking them back, you risk knocking them into a death pit while a class is focusing on attacking them with a targetting melee spell, killing that player in the process.

6. Fighting closer to where the mobs SPAWN, not where they are going, sets the entire pace of the fight up to the players, not the enemies. You can start stunning them right away, instead of waiting for them to charge the clerics, risking you or one of your fellow players getting flattened by incoming damage.

7. Based on your logic of helping the entire group, not just yourself, why would you recommend using knockbacks when it completely forces melee fighters to run around and gather the enemies back up, when just stunning, rooting, proning, and dazing them where they spawn is much more beneficial to the group overall.

That's about all, not trying to attack anyone, just read this and got a little concerned with your methodology. I would actually really like to discuss this further, so please feel free to rebute.

nullvaluepoint

I used the trail end of a failed raid to test a few things and found a fun strategy for fighting the male demons. (SW, but would work for other classes.)

I'd place my back to a cliff and rip aggro from other DPS people trying to kill them the slow way. The mob has an attack that teleports him behind you. He then falls to his death. Life tap and DPS another and repeat.

mahburg

williamreedy wrote: »

This is the most backward OP I have ever read. Why would you EVER position a DC and a CW next to the clerics when you can position them where they spawn. This is for SEVERAL reasons;



5. Using knockback effects can actually get members of your party killed, especially TRs using Duelist's Flurry, GWFs using Threatening Rush, GFs using the equivalent of Threatening Rush, and HRs using Marauder's Rush. By knocking them back, you risk knocking them into a death pit while a class is focusing on attacking them with a targetting melee spell, killing that player in the process.



That's about all, not trying to attack anyone, just read this and got a little concerned with your methodology. I would actually really like to discuss this further, so please feel free to rebute.

This the numbers of times I have been knocked off a Cliff when stood right under a head you just would not believe
To hit the tiny X in a heads mouth you have to get right under it (GWF).
What that means is if anyone uses a push power you are toast lol.
Please do us a favour guys dont use those powers at the heads

williamreedy

I do my best to never use any knockbacks, just to keep the enemies stacked up so they can be killed. I am very aware of team mechanics in Tiamat, and know how frustrating it is to have players crowding the clerics and using knockbacks during the raid. The goal is to be organized, and it is a tiny bit hard to be organized when you have the trash getting hurled around like newspaper caught in an updraft.

browntj007

williamreedy wrote: »

This is the most backward OP I have ever read. Why would you EVER position a DC and a CW next to the clerics when you can position them where they spawn. This is for SEVERAL reasons;

1. You can perma-stun with a CW using Icy Terrain, Steal Time, and Shard of the Endless Avalanche so the group can kill the mob.

2. I would never use Ice Storm to break up the mobs, since it moves the direction of the fight in too many directions. Oppressive Force keeps the enemies Dazed and stacked up so they can be AoE'd to death by you and the party.

3. During Clerics phase, the heads DO NOT target CLERICS with their breath attacks, they target PLAYERS. So why would you crowd clerics to have breath attacks aimed right for your cleric.

4. Why would you just continuously knock the enemies back when killing them takes you out of danger of taking damage and killing them gives you the ability to mount after clerics phase is complete.

5. Using knockback effects can actually get members of your party killed, especially TRs using Duelist's Flurry, GWFs using Threatening Rush, GFs using the equivalent of Threatening Rush, and HRs using Marauder's Rush. By knocking them back, you risk knocking them into a death pit while a class is focusing on attacking them with a targetting melee spell, killing that player in the process.

6. Fighting closer to where the mobs SPAWN, not where they are going, sets the entire pace of the fight up to the players, not the enemies. You can start stunning them right away, instead of waiting for them to charge the clerics, risking you or one of your fellow players getting flattened by incoming damage.

7. Based on your logic of helping the entire group, not just yourself, why would you recommend using knockbacks when it completely forces melee fighters to run around and gather the enemies back up, when just stunning, rooting, proning, and dazing them where they spawn is much more beneficial to the group overall.

That's about all, not trying to attack anyone, just read this and got a little concerned with your methodology. I would actually really like to discuss this further, so please feel free to rebute.

Ok - I think I can answer:

1. You can't perma-stun anything. The effect only last a very short while and doesn't always affect the entire mob - certainly not long enough for the DPS guys, which I suspect you are, to kill off all affected.

2. You miss the point - the enemy mobs just re-spawn. Over and over. Kill all you want, they keep coming back. The key is to keep that cleric blue bar rising. Ice Storm will buy time for that to happen. I know this is entirely ruining your score, since you'd prefer to keep on DPS'ing, but your slow kills one by one, while helpful, still allow them to attack the clerics.


3. Dragon breath has NO EFFECT on the clerics' blue bar - done experiments and watched closely


4. Because the goal is to get that blue bar to the top, not pad your score. re spawn kills your strategy. You cannot kill them all fast enough. And they teleport charge next to the cleric, despite all the characters being far away from the clerics, so that little tactic is bunk.


5. I didn't suggest using knockback while attacking the heads - only while defending the 3 clerics. I've yet to see other players affected by these spells, though or ANY friendly spells in a negative manner, and Ive used sunburst thousands of times effectively. Jury still out.


6. I don't care how good you think you are, you're with 24 other guys, and probably 7 others at a cleric. While you personally may be able to stop a few, enemy are close combating the cleric - the ones that ALWAYS get by the DPS guys. DPS guys NEVER turn around and come back to help an engaged cleric either. Killing isn't the entire answer, building up that blue bar is. And the easiest way to do that is keep the enemy off the cleric by knockbacks. The pace is dictated by the advance of the blue bar, not by the enemy or the players. Even in a perfect run it would take a certain amount of time. So TIME is the critical element. Things that cause that time to rise is bad. Bad guys engaging the clerics causes the time to rise. Simply using melee isn't enough nor feasible.


7. Melee guys need to understand their role, which is hard for some - which is to cover the clerics! NOT go around slicing and dicing at will. Yes, attacking and stunning at the spawn point buys time, which is good, if you could be flawless in execution. Doesn't happen. They get through. And while you're killing one guy at a time, the enemy is attacking the cleric behind you and stalling or lowering that all important blue bar.

I can understand why you might think otherwise. It's obvious you're a DPS guy. Your strategy fails simply because you aren't good enough to prevent all enemy from engaging the clerics. Like I said, killing isn't the answer when they just re-spawn. It actually makes sense from a gameplay POV. Defending the clerics relies on keeping the bad guys away from the clerics - best done by the methods using support chars I wrote about. DPS guys support. Killing the heads best done by DPS guys - all others support. For a total team effort. Instead of just melee guys do everything while the rest of us sit back and watch? And I have watched. Seen groups fail time and time again, Usually blaming the clerics. And rightly so, for using a flawed tactic of supporting the fighters up front too closely. Doing the exact strategy you propose. My strategy involves the least amount of risk in terms of health, keeps guys alive longer, and buys more time than simply killing over and over an endless mob. Think about it.

armwald

I am just guessing one of your characters is not a HR Pathfinder or Stormwarden

acridbird74

williamreedy wrote: »

I do my best to never use any knockbacks, just to keep the enemies stacked up so they can be killed. I am very aware of team mechanics in Tiamat, and know how frustrating it is to have players crowding the clerics and using knockbacks during the raid. The goal is to be organized, and it is a tiny bit hard to be organized when you have the trash getting hurled around like newspaper caught in an updraft.

Exactly. I wish fewer players would use knockbacks and push. I think the powers are necessary when enemies are attacking the clerics. But if you have a good control wizard and a tank and some DPS doing damage on a tightly bound group of spawning enemies, it does no one any good to sunburst that group and break up the group. Please don't do that! When things scatter, it makes it very difficult to control everything and keep them all away from the clerics, and to deal with the spawning enemies at the same time. I understand pushing bad things off the cliff if you are close to it, or bursting things away from the cleric when enemies slip by. That's awesome! Do that! But as a good CW, too many times I will be freezing and controlling and letting my teammates do massive damage, only to have that control interrupted by a giant, unwanted push! It is frustrating.

raymond00713

I agree with willemreedy. You guys stand by the clerics and think your knock back is saving someone when in reality all your doing is drawing aggro to the clerics. Here's some help, before they spawn they show with a red circle. Any good cw or tr can keep the fight right there with control. Im not sure how cws do it, but i just drop smoke, go stealth, then hit them all with dazing strike. They arent going anywhere. That is until a dc or gf decides to amble down and scatter everything everywhere, allowing one to escape and driving everyone all over the place. The "dashing around" all over the place stabbing stuff is caused by you guys scattering the fight.

If you absolutely must save the day because one gets loose, throw the mob then get away from the cleric. He's coming back for you. Bring him back into the fight, away from the cleric.

williamreedy

browntj007 wrote: »

williamreedy wrote: »

This is the most backward OP I have ever read. Why would you EVER position a DC and a CW next to the clerics when you can position them where they spawn. This is for SEVERAL reasons;

1. You can perma-stun with a CW using Icy Terrain, Steal Time, and Shard of the Endless Avalanche so the group can kill the mob.

2. I would never use Ice Storm to break up the mobs, since it moves the direction of the fight in too many directions. Oppressive Force keeps the enemies Dazed and stacked up so they can be AoE'd to death by you and the party.

3. During Clerics phase, the heads DO NOT target CLERICS with their breath attacks, they target PLAYERS. So why would you crowd clerics to have breath attacks aimed right for your cleric.

4. Why would you just continuously knock the enemies back when killing them takes you out of danger of taking damage and killing them gives you the ability to mount after clerics phase is complete.

5. Using knockback effects can actually get members of your party killed, especially TRs using Duelist's Flurry, GWFs using Threatening Rush, GFs using the equivalent of Threatening Rush, and HRs using Marauder's Rush. By knocking them back, you risk knocking them into a death pit while a class is focusing on attacking them with a targetting melee spell, killing that player in the process.

6. Fighting closer to where the mobs SPAWN, not where they are going, sets the entire pace of the fight up to the players, not the enemies. You can start stunning them right away, instead of waiting for them to charge the clerics, risking you or one of your fellow players getting flattened by incoming damage.

7. Based on your logic of helping the entire group, not just yourself, why would you recommend using knockbacks when it completely forces melee fighters to run around and gather the enemies back up, when just stunning, rooting, proning, and dazing them where they spawn is much more beneficial to the group overall.

That's about all, not trying to attack anyone, just read this and got a little concerned with your methodology. I would actually really like to discuss this further, so please feel free to rebute.

Ok - I think I can answer:

1. You can't perma-stun anything. The effect only last a very short while and doesn't always affect the entire mob - certainly not long enough for the DPS guys, which I suspect you are, to kill off all affected.

2. You miss the point - the enemy mobs just re-spawn. Over and over. Kill all you want, they keep coming back. The key is to keep that cleric blue bar rising. Ice Storm will buy time for that to happen. I know this is entirely ruining your score, since you'd prefer to keep on DPS'ing, but your slow kills one by one, while helpful, still allow them to attack the clerics.


3. Dragon breath has NO EFFECT on the clerics' blue bar - done experiments and watched closely


4. Because the goal is to get that blue bar to the top, not pad your score. re spawn kills your strategy. You cannot kill them all fast enough. And they teleport charge next to the cleric, despite all the characters being far away from the clerics, so that little tactic is bunk.


5. I didn't suggest using knockback while attacking the heads - only while defending the 3 clerics. I've yet to see other players affected by these spells, though or ANY friendly spells in a negative manner, and Ive used sunburst thousands of times effectively. Jury still out.


6. I don't care how good you think you are, you're with 24 other guys, and probably 7 others at a cleric. While you personally may be able to stop a few, enemy are close combating the cleric - the ones that ALWAYS get by the DPS guys. DPS guys NEVER turn around and come back to help an engaged cleric either. Killing isn't the entire answer, building up that blue bar is. And the easiest way to do that is keep the enemy off the cleric by knockbacks. The pace is dictated by the advance of the blue bar, not by the enemy or the players. Even in a perfect run it would take a certain amount of time. So TIME is the critical element. Things that cause that time to rise is bad. Bad guys engaging the clerics causes the time to rise. Simply using melee isn't enough nor feasible.


7. Melee guys need to understand their role, which is hard for some - which is to cover the clerics! NOT go around slicing and dicing at will. Yes, attacking and stunning at the spawn point buys time, which is good, if you could be flawless in execution. Doesn't happen. They get through. And while you're killing one guy at a time, the enemy is attacking the cleric behind you and stalling or lowering that all important blue bar.

I can understand why you might think otherwise. It's obvious you're a DPS guy. Your strategy fails simply because you aren't good enough to prevent all enemy from engaging the clerics. Like I said, killing isn't the answer when they just re-spawn. It actually makes sense from a gameplay POV. Defending the clerics relies on keeping the bad guys away from the clerics - best done by the methods using support chars I wrote about. DPS guys support. Killing the heads best done by DPS guys - all others support. For a total team effort. Instead of just melee guys do everything while the rest of us sit back and watch? And I have watched. Seen groups fail time and time again, Usually blaming the clerics. And rightly so, for using a flawed tactic of supporting the fighters up front too closely. Doing the exact strategy you propose. My strategy involves the least amount of risk in terms of health, keeps guys alive longer, and buys more time than simply killing over and over an endless mob. Think about it.

I am actually very much enjoying the discussion, but I have responses to a few:

1. Enemies usually always start by spawning Legion Devils, which give you a chance to start your rotation with Icy Terrain. They start taking DoT damage from Terrain, which draws their aggro to you. Follow up your rotation with Oppressive Force is you have your Daily up, then immediately follow up with Steal Time. This way once they are out of Daze they will still have aggro on you. End your rotation to in all likelihood kill them with Shard of the Endless Avalanche. You have effectively perma-stunned a mob, or at least stunned them until they are dead.

2. They don't respawn immediately, you will get about 10-15 seconds of uninterrupted peace between add spawns, so getting those extra seconds of tranquility to gather your thoughts and assess the situation of not just your cleric bu the other 2 is very valuable, plus no incoming damage to you or your cleric.

3. No rebute to that, as that statement is true.

4. See item 1 for CWs. If a Erinyes does a crazy dash attack, take the time to cast a full rotation of MM. That has always drawn the aggro to me so it is not on a cleric. Other than that one problem with Erinyes, I have always been able to keep aggro at the line where they spawn, nice and safe away from the clerics.

5. Didn't say anything about during heads phase here.... Just that it does happen if you aren't careful, especially at Moondancer and Linu, since their adds spawn closer to death pits.

6. You used an awful lot of absolutes when it comes to this one... Never coming back to assist clerics is 100% wrong. You also mention time, which I think is very interesting. Correct, time is incredibly valuable during the run. Using knockbacks take up people's time scooping the enemies up so they can be properly dispatched so you can MOUNT when heads phase start, unless you want to tell me walking to the heads is a faster solution than using your mount at an enemy-free cleric, especially for Dreamer defenders during phase 1 heads... You can easily waste 12-15 seconds by not being able to mount because you have trash tailing you. Knocking them back doesn't work, since that just makes them mad at you and will chase you longer.

7. Flawless execution would occur a lot more consistently if players would understand their roles and use their class features and encounters in the most effective way imaginable, which would be starting to happen if their wasn't miscommunication in combat methods. EVERY class in the game right now can use some kind of effect that prevents enemies from moving or attacking in some manner. Yes, that opens up a risk factor, but as time goes on, as long as their is a consistent way of defeating Tiamat, more and more players will learn their roles and their rotation and the instance will win more often.

In closing, I am not necessarily a "DPS guy", it just happens that being a CW also gives you outstanding DPS. Every attack I have mentioned, with the exception of MM, is a control power, which does its job quite well if used in the right way. My ONLY deaths in Tiamat using my method have been to not having stamina to jump from head to head, and from improper use of Dragon Soul gems. Interestingly, with the #TiamatTakedown contest running, I would very much enjoy putting up some videos of my method for analysis.

williamreedy

raymond00713 wrote: »

I agree with willemreedy. You guys stand by the clerics and think your knock back is saving someone when in reality all your doing is drawing aggro to the clerics. Here's some help, before they spawn they show with a red circle. Any good cw or tr can keep the fight right there with control. Im not sure how cws do it, but i just drop smoke, go stealth, then hit them all with dazing strike. They arent going anywhere. That is until a dc or gf decides to amble down and scatter everything everywhere, allowing one to escape and driving everyone all over the place. The "dashing around" all over the place stabbing stuff is caused by you guys scattering the fight.

If you absolutely must save the day because one gets loose, throw the mob then get away from the cleric. He's coming back for you. Bring him back into the fight, away from the cleric.

I agree with this statement 100%. You are an example of a player using their class features and encounters to their fullest ability, and you are a benefit to your raids because of it.

draven165

I call it battlefield awareness personally and try and teach it to others in my house when we play. As a DC I do use Sunburst when a mob is hitting a cleric. I do not use it all free nilly willy though. I am not sure on other builds or other DC's but I rarely if ever draw aggro using sunburst. On the off chance I ever do get aggro from heals or other damage effects I gladly walk the mob down to the nearest DPS player and hand it off. Once I lose aggro I go back up to the Cleric. I do not stand on top of the Cleric but I stand back about 5-10 feet so basically right at the bottom of the steps (I generally stay in the middle as that is the Dragon Gem I typically get). I heal the DPS and cast Divine Glow on mobs and watch for a mob on a Cleric then rinse and repeat. I have noticed others starting to watch and take notice which is a good thing as our Cleric is generally one of the first to top out. But it is being aware of your surroundings and knowing where other players are that makes the difference for me. I take note of the classes at the Cleric I am with and look for players using AOE attacks. This is generally the person I am walking the mob to if I get aggro so their AOE can take him. I return the favor by tossing a heal their way then I go back to guarding the Cleric.

Whether this is the "best" method or not, it is an effective method in the runs I have been in.

acridbird74

Here's a strategy that has worked extremely well for me as a spellstorm renegade CW at the clerics: I wait where enemies are spawning. My shield is up. At the very moment they start spawning, I drop icy terrain to freeze and start the crits and damage. Then steal time the mob, which stuns and damages, and keeps them stunned for a few ticks after icy terrain disappears. Then I probably have my daily up, so I drop oppressive force, which is a powerful damaging force that further stuns, crits and helps destroy the mob and the newly spawning bad things. By that point, my icy terrain is ready again and I drop it like it's hot. By this point, I still have to wait a couple more seconds for cooldown on steal time, so if it's a mob, I am stepping back for a second and at-will chilling cloud to light them up with lightning and ice. I will also throw a conduit of ice storm in mastery slot at the group to keep damage and ice control up if they are tightly packed. If it's one or two left, I use my magic missiles for quick disappearance. Then steal time is ready -- boom. Then oppressive force again. Then another icy terrain. Congratulations -- you've helped clear out a lot of bad guys. Don't just sit there! Look around quickly at the cleric. If a bad guy has slipped by, magic missile to the cleric to draw aggro away when you catch a moment to breathe. This strategy requires good recharge speed to make sure your icy terrain and steal time are filling fast. Rinse repeat with this rotation and you will be a control master.

williamreedy

acridbird74 wrote: »

Here's a strategy that has worked extremely well for me as a spellstorm renegade CW at the clerics: I wait where enemies are spawning. My shield is up. At the very moment they start spawning, I drop icy terrain to freeze and start the crits and damage. Then steal time the mob, which stuns and damages, and keeps them stunned for a few ticks after icy terrain disappears. Then I probably have my daily up, so I drop oppressive force, which is a powerful damaging force that further stuns, crits and helps destroy the mob and the newly spawning bad things. By that point, my icy terrain is ready again and I drop it like it's hot. By this point, I still have to wait a couple more seconds for cooldown on steal time, so if it's a mob, I am stepping back for a second and at-will chilling cloud to light them up with lightning and ice. I will also throw a conduit of ice storm in mastery slot at the group to keep damage and ice control up if they are tightly packed. If it's one or two left, I use my magic missiles for quick disappearance. Then steal time is ready -- boom. Then oppressive force again. Then another icy terrain. Congratulations -- you've helped clear out a lot of bad guys. Don't just sit there! Look around quickly at the cleric. If a bad guy has slipped by, magic missile to the cleric to draw aggro away when you catch a moment to breathe. This strategy requires good recharge speed to make sure your icy terrain and steal time are filling fast. Rinse repeat with this rotation and you will be a control master.

You sound just like me, but I have RoE on my RB instead of Shield, but that is a matter of preference.

acridbird74

williamreedy wrote: »

You sound just like me, but I have RoE on my RB instead of Shield, but that is a matter of preference.

Right now I have Conduit of Ice on my RB and like it. I've never used Shield in RB. I have never used RoE at all, but now I want to give it a try. I am pretty sure I have unused power points and will slot it to see for myself. I can be pretty squishy because I don't have a lot of defense at the moment. Shield helps me take some big hits in the Tiamat fight. I expect I will be a little more defensive when I unlock the fourth boon and can get some life steal.

Also... just want to say that it is a blast playing as a CW, especially in Tiamat fights. I also have a 60 DC and a 60 TR, and they aren't as fun to me.

williamreedy

acridbird74 wrote: »

williamreedy wrote: »

You sound just like me, but I have RoE on my RB instead of Shield, but that is a matter of preference.

Right now I have Conduit of Ice on my RB and like it. I've never used Shield in RB. I have never used RoE at all, but now I want to give it a try. I am pretty sure I have unused power points and will slot it to see for myself. I can be pretty squishy because I don't have a lot of defense at the moment. Shield helps me take some big hits in the Tiamat fight. I expect I will be a little more defensive when I unlock the fourth boon and can get some life steal.

Also... just want to say that it is a blast playing as a CW, especially in Tiamat fights. I also have a 60 DC and a 60 TR, and they aren't as fun to me.

RoE on RB gives an additional cast when in spell mastery and helps to pull agro when a stray enemy gets to the clerics.

ddem0n888

As a GWF I always feel fairly useless on the Clerics as I've got very little pushback power. You can try to aggro the adds away from the clerics but they don't always follow you. You can make a difference on the dragons though.

williamreedy

ddem0n888 wrote: »

As a GWF I always feel fairly useless on the Clerics as I've got very little pushback power. You can try to aggro the adds away from the clerics but they don't always follow you. You can make a difference on the dragons though.

Are you an Iron Vanguard or Swordmaster?

fluffy6977

You really don't know how to use your GF for this.

Go Iron Vanguard, tactician, get anything that gets your ap back faster and the 2 perks into Protector to get the +5 AC. Get the one that adds 5% dmg buff to Into the Fray.

You need 24% Resistance Ignored, unless you are running full DT, the you only need 19%. Since your dex contributez this is really easy to get, i.e. i get 13% from my dex personally, which means only need what i get out of DT for armor pen if i use the full set. Means im far more effective at a lower GS (like 1300 lower) than most classes. DT full buff for GF gives every enemy within 50 feet -5% dmg and -5% Damage Reduction. Since it applies to enemies and is always up it helps the entire raid dps the dragons (if they don have enough RI, usually about half the group at least if no more)

Run Enhanced Mark for extra threat generation. The other is your preference.

stand in Add spawn. Only reason to move is head blast, then come right back.

Rotation depends on how the adds spawn in. If its one or two use Threatening rush. If its 3 or more Enforced threat. Mark any strays with rb, and cleave once. Congratulations, you have threshold, and the adds are yours. As long as you smack em once in a while YOU WILL KEEP THEM.

Fighters recovery plus Frontline Surge will literally restore all your health. (I do have a Battlefield Medic but pretty sure it still does without that). Plus FLS is great if you get some adds teleporting to cleric, stops the hits and aggroes back to you.

3rd power i usually run Into the Fray. This is very important to note however, IT ONLY BUFFS PEOPLE IN YOUR GROUP. I.E. YOU NEED TO HAVE A GROUP. Same with ALL armor set buffs, same with Knights Valor etc. Only buffs i have seen affect non grouped allies are DC buffs on an area. So unless you have a group you arent buffing anyone else, just yourself (which is fine, but share the love). This also helps with any deeps in the group who need a power boost.

With this combo i can usually hold down a whole side by myself without a cleric. With 3 to 4 Deeps with me we usually clear the waves in ~20 seconds. Meaning we have as much downtime as uptime on the adds. And the cleric bar NEVER stops filling.

Based on a stopwatch i can fill the cleric in 88 seconds. Which means with a similar setup on all clerics we probably could get a 4th run as needed, since when we win there are usually 5 minutes remaining.

My next post will be about CWs since that my alt. I mention it no because my GF always outranks my CW on the Tiamat leaderboards. By a lot.

fluffy6977

My CW is not standard. I went with a Master of Flames high crit tham build.

Standing in spawn with Critical Conflagration and the other one that makes enemies affected by scorch take 15% more damage. Crit. Con. Adds scorch to any enemy crit hit by an arcane or cold attack. High crit build means usually 90% of the time all enemies have scorch. and take an additional 15% damage from all sources. Going to get my offhand to make that 25% additional dmg asap. I prefer to run Shadow weaver to give my group extra crit severity and more health back but im using 2 DT pieces till i can get more armor pen without em. RI is 24% (just leveled this character like weeks ago, builds no where near done. 30% more damage to single targets, 10% less to AoE (offset with Evocation as necessary).

As soon as i see adds Icy Ground. Wait a beat and steal time. Add cold whirlwind power whose name escapes me at the moment on the 2nd toughest enemy.

This i the master stroke. Fanning the Flame in spell mastery deals damage to target, adds scorch to target and everything near it, sucks a portion of scorched damage from surrounding targets back into main target for additional damage (even more damage is the additional targets died) and applies the 15% additional damage. Makes a huge difference on dragon heads.

Ice storm for those oh <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> get the adds off the clerics moments. Ice blade for the single target damage.

Usually scores between 70k and 110k+ on the leaderboards, depending on how many crits i get.

theungodly

You don't seem to consider HR Trappers in you list. We can root adds indefinitely at their spawn points if we're lucky with our encounters ...and if DCs don't use extremely annoying knock-backs when we do.
Sure, use knock-backs if adds are storming clerics or if adds are close to edges, but if someone are freezing/rooting/controlling the adds - just stay away with your knock-backs, pretty please. You just make everything worse.

And "rush in and pick up fallen." As a HR i try to help fallen as much as possible, but HRs are one of the slowest, if not the slowest, classes in the game. We walk painfully slow and dodge very short distances, so we are not the most ideal class to "rush" anywhere. That's mainly a job for GWF, DC, SW and TR who has much faster dodge moves.

xr1st1anos

Guardian Fighters

Use

At will - Threatening Rush / Tide of Iron

Encounters- Into the Fray / Enforced Threat / Knights Valour

Passive - Guarded Assault and Enhanced Mark

Cleric defense

Stand in spawn area of enemy near cleric. Kite the enemy away from the cleric. You can either have KV on or not at this point. Use into the Fray to help group when available.

Dragon head attack

Turn on KV on the way to the dragon if not already on. Make sure to mark the dragon as quickly as possible (for buff and debuff). Stand directly underneath the dragon. Use Into the Fray when available. Hit the dragon with Tide of Iron (for debuff). When you see the dragon attacking the group, put your shield up. Your KV and Guarded assault will return damage to dragon. That is 25 peoples % of damage being reflected back at the dragon. throw in some attacks in between. Rinse and repeat.

Note:

Works best if wearing full armor of Draconic Templar (set bonus is less damage and damage resistance by enemy -5%). Also equipping Greater Blue glyphs on the overload slots helps as it procs when you attack or take a hit +800 defense and 600 lightning damage).

I personally also use Briartwine Armor enchant and Lightning Weapon enchant. The Briartwine reflects damage back to the dragon and the Lightning chains 3x.

Imagine having KV on 25 people and the dragon attacks them. Your Briartwine procs and reflects back damage, your overload slot procs and does lightning damage, your Guarded Assault reflects all 25 peoples % of damage back to the dragon followed by your lightning weapon enchant that also has a chance to chain 3 times. You are pretty much just like a heavy hitting DPS with the extra bonus of buffing the group and debuffing the dragon.

Check the Leaderboards after the win, and I'm pretty sure you will be in the top 5. Now go brag

fluffy6977

xr1st1anos wrote: »

Guardian Fighters

Use

At will - Threatening Rush / Tide of Iron

Encounters- Into the Fray / Enforced Threat / Knights Valour

Passive - Guarded Assault and Enhanced Mark

Cleric defense

Stand in spawn area of enemy near cleric. Kite the enemy away from the cleric. You can either have KV on or not at this point. Use into the Fray to help group when available.

Dragon head attack

Turn on KV on the way to the dragon if not already on. Make sure to mark the dragon as quickly as possible (for buff and debuff). Stand directly underneath the dragon. Use Into the Fray when available. Hit the dragon with Tide of Iron (for debuff). When you see the dragon attacking the group, put your shield up. Your KV and Guarded assault will return damage to dragon. That is 25 peoples % of damage being reflected back at the dragon. throw in some attacks in between. Rinse and repeat.

Note:

Works best if wearing full armor of Draconic Templar (set bonus is less damage and damage resistance by enemy -5%). Also equipping Greater Blue glyphs on the overload slots helps as it procs when you attack or take a hit +800 defense and 600 lightning damage).

I personally also use Briartwine Armor enchant and Lightning Weapon enchant. The Briartwine reflects damage back to the dragon and the Lightning chains 3x.

Imagine having KV on 25 people and the dragon attacks them. Your Briartwine procs and reflects back damage, your overload slot procs and does lightning damage, your Guarded Assault reflects all 25 peoples % of damage back to the dragon followed by your lightning weapon enchant that also has a chance to chain 3 times. You are pretty much just like a heavy hitting DPS with the extra bonus of buffing the group and debuffing the dragon.

Check the Leaderboards after the win, and I'm pretty sure you will be in the top 5. Now go brag

Except KV and ITF only affect people in your actual group for a max of 5. Leaderboard points have much more to do with cleric waves, as its a combination of overall damage dealt, enemies killed, damage taken and health healed.

xr1st1anos

fluffy6977 wrote: »

Except KV and ITF only affect people in your actual group for a max of 5. Leaderboard points have much more to do with cleric waves, as its a combination of overall damage dealt, enemies killed, damage taken and health healed.

I agree with you on ITF. Yes, it only buffs your actual group of 5.

KV though, for some reason, covers the lot within proximity. I have sat up front, under the dragons head multiple times and watched the trails of KV coming from the rest of the players followed by my lightning enchantment. Even when I'm not in any group.

The question is though, as you described, is it actually protecting the players as intended or just proccing reflect and the lightning enchant and overload?

As for the leaderboard points, it was an exaggeration to get the point across. In reality though, no one really knows how the points are calculated as PW has yet to released the formula.

armwald

Who cares about the leaderboard ???

It is about the win and has no effect on rewards.

I have never finished in the top 5 in a win and have 5-6 Offhands, 4 Orbs, Books, Bags, 4 Belts and a pile of Favors.

The only time I am top 5 is in a loss

kriek314

Using knockbacks on the clerics is a really bad idea.

If your group has enough dps to drop the heads in time, you have plenty of damage to rapidly kill the adds as they spawn.

I main a GWF and I stand right where the adds spawn and pick them up, if the other members don't knock them away they stay in one spot easily controlled and get dropped within a matter of seconds. When a CW or DC runs up and bounces them everywhere, they make their way to the clerics, dragon breath goes everywhere, and everything turns to chaos which takes far longer. If you're going to use knockbacks the LEAST you can do is give melee players a second or two to see if they control the adds, sometimes one slips away and I only need a second to grab it and pull it back, which is basically impossible when it goes flying across the map.

ipinkbelly

As a CW I spent the first week of Timat's release doing push backs and fighting near the cleric with poor results but after trying out a few different things. I have found that being where they spawn is the best spot to be freezing them. I have my shield up and as soon as I see the red circle where they are going to spawn I throw down Icy Terrain, do steal time, sudden storm. Do CC if my Icy Terrain is still on cool down and repeat. I will only use Ice Storm if the cleric is mobbed up and run to the side so they will come after me. They don't touch the cleric and people aren't dying around me. Using this method has worked for me, even when I was with only 1 other person and we kept up with the other groups.

Pushing them back only has them returning back right away. If you stand away from the cleric they will come and attack you not the cleric. Just hit them first before they get to the cleric and they will target you.

patsfire

On my TR I always throw smoke where I know the ads spawn, then most of the time they will aggro to me. But being a TR I loose aggro quickly, so then I go on my rampage attacking everything getting that agro back and drawing them away from clerics.

On heads, I spam Duelists Furry and when I get stealth back I use lashing blade. Then I use my Legendary Lantern when it comes back.

valydor

Do whatever on the Clerics, have fun! They'll get there bar up, there is plenty of time- the real battle is with the heads. If ur arm pen is not at 2k at least... Tia is not for you and you are being carried. I see way too many people ignoring stats completely and judging on GS.
Yay we have a technique that works to get the clerics bar up, but have no Armpen to deal any sort of damage- fail.