Artifact Off-Hand (Aspect of the Pack vs Aspect of the Serpent)

alliera7311

What one do you all think is the best and why?

brotherrogue

Serpent , because thats what i use along with twin blade storm. Pack has more potential damage but requires you to be within 15 feet of 4 people not always possible, also serpent trumps pack as far as damage increase....... right?

alliera7311

Yes, but your boosting not just your own but the whole groups damaged. I have been playing this game for awhile now and I have never had a storm trapper beat my pathfinder trapper even with twin blade storm. Aspect of the pack alone is a 15% dmg boost.

armwald

I am a Pathfinder HR

My offhand had twin blade storm so I bought 4 cubes and ended up with with Stormstep Action buff

Crazy getting two buffs that are useless to me

wdj40

I don't know why people still use Twin Blade Storm as it is rubbish. It may be good if you are running solo with 0 companions.

You only get 12% increased damage and only on certain skills. With AotP you get 15% extra damage whenever you are near any ally (companions, group friends or just plain randoms), then you get equipment to increase Combat Advantage and also Artefacts to increase Combat Advantage Damage, so that 15% extra damage goes up even more, also Charisma adds a very small amount to combat advantage too.

The only way you can run Twin Blade Storm is if you take off AotP, I cant see any Trapper HR not running with AotS as standard. To me AotP and AotS are just too good not to use on a DPS build.

armwald

I run a PathFinder build

Started with Twin Blade Storm and Control Resistance +100

13 Cubes later ( ouch ) and my Blades are going in the right direction.

Aspect of the Pack and Control + 216

I think it is really easy to have 4 Allies in a 15' radius when doing Tiamat Zerg for the 8% DR bump to your stats and the bump to the their damage may make the difference so it is a no brainer IMHO

soonergm

So.. the thing is with combat advantage, you can get that without AotP. AotP just makes it where you don't need to flank your opponent to activate combat advantage. If your party surrounds the enemy, activating combat advantage, now your party has 15% more damage. Plus TBS and you are at 27% more for your melee encounters, which seems better than just 15% to me.

Any equipment you use to increase combat advantage will benefit both AotP and combat advantage aquired by standard methods.

It's easy to position yourself for combat advantage and I find if I'm not doing it then someone else already has. Also other classes have abilities that grant combat advantage as well.

soonergm

Any other opinions on this? Am I wrong on how combat advantage works?

shazza53

I can't prove it is better, but I like the Combat Advantage boost for AotP. Yes, you can position yourself, but many attacks happen fast, and as people get stronger - combat is often over quickly, not always giving time to position.

soonergm

Well, I'm not too sure on that. If battle is over that quickly then we are really knit picking over nothing lol.

I find that fox shift often puts me in position for combat advantage also. There is an indicator that shows when combat advantage is enabled and it seems like is most of the time. But you guys are right if you can't get to position then you are losing out. But again like I said if it's over that fast we aren't missing much.

alliera7311

All good points Aotp does seem to give you constant CA and if you do happen to position yourself for more all the better. Also guys CA is indicated by a yellow number with a sword next to it, and a blue or white circle around the boss. White is pretty rare to get though.

alliera7311

Soonergm is not wrong in how it works from what I have tested. btw

shazza53

Note - I don't think soonergm is wrong in how it works. I think it's simply a matter of preference as to whether it is the class feature one wants to use, and perhaps supplement with your artifact stat.

In my experience, there is often no perfect choice. If you choose one thing over another, you will generally compensate in another way.

soonergm

I think it's good to have some diversity. Some of the threads I see in the general discussion section make me not even want to participate. Too much my way is best and your build is trash type of comments.

strongman565

you guys do know pack is activated against npcs too? even ioun stones will trigger pack as it counts as a companion, an "ally"

soonergm

I've been running pack a lot more lately and I use an Ioun stone... when I'm running solo combat advantage is not activated. Or at least the indicator circles on enemies aren't blue.

As for the original point of discussion.. I was looking at aspect of serpent for offhand because I always run that where as AotP, TBS, SS, I switch out. But the bonus from offhand only increases your dmage for 2 seconds lol. I don't know if it goes up as you level the artifact but as it sits that's junk. If you have to reposition yourself or dodge then you miss out. I'm definitely going for AotP if I can.

guarana76

strongman565 wrote: »

you guys do know pack is activated against npcs too? even ioun stones will trigger pack as it counts as a companion, an "ally"

I´ve run some tests yesterday. It got activated by my Wererat companion, but not by the Ioun Stone. This should be considered as bug / glitch?

Edit: I always look at the sword icon close to the damage numbers to check CA.

arex

I don't believe an Ioun or Cat can trigger AotP because neither of those companions is 'there' with you (can't be targeted by mobs).

alliera7311

yes that is true sorry its been awhile since my last post. Augment companions will not trigger it you need a ally or a summon companion around. You dont have to be in a group to gain it either just stand near someone.

wdj40

Sorry I completely missed the replies in this thread, as prev posters said CA is not obtained by using a Stone or Cat I could have confirmed this ages ago ha ha lol.

Also people have mentioned earlier in the thread you need to be near 4 people for AotP... This is totally not true and never has been. You just need to be near 1 person, whether it be a companion (with a health bar), an NPC quest ally or any player.

This is why AotP is and was so good.

rhadamathys

I run aots all the time and swap aotp (if I'm in a group) with the level 65 feature...dazing (crushing?) roots (if I'm solo)...i also run with ioun for now, but would like a cat...

soonergm

Funny how my viewpoints keep evolving in this game, lol. I almost never run with AotP anymore. AotS is still the mainstay and usually I'll run with Seeker's Vengence. With SV, I get behind the enemy which then gives the party CA. Also now that I have more characters I know that other classes have feats that activate CA, like control wizards, which there are a ton of. Between that, the TR getting behind the enemy and myself getting behind the enemy, the party always has CA.

If the party lacks a tank or healer I may swap out to Lone Wolf to help survive, but I still try to get behind the enemy.

I also use crushing roots situationally but it seems more effective running solo, where SV is useless because the enemy is always facing you.

davidagaldo

Strange, I ran Ioun for a very long time, and I triggered CA on eLoL dragon. I am not the only one who noticed when popped up on the wall the blue ring appeared and off when I moved away. I am greedy cause AotP I don't use often, manly AotS.

wdj40

soonergm said:

Funny how my viewpoints keep evolving in this game, lol. I almost never run with AotP anymore. AotS is still the mainstay and usually I'll run with Seeker's Vengence. With SV, I get behind the enemy which then gives the party CA. Also now that I have more characters I know that other classes have feats that activate CA, like control wizards, which there are a ton of. Between that, the TR getting behind the enemy and myself getting behind the enemy, the party always has CA.



If the party lacks a tank or healer I may swap out to Lone Wolf to help survive, but I still try to get behind the enemy.



I also use crushing roots situationally but it seems more effective running solo, where SV is useless because the enemy is always facing you.

Yeah I use Seekers Vengence every now and then... there is no way it adds 19% extra damage from behind though like the tool tip states

alliera7311

I seen that as well.

soonergm

Well due to the nature of things its not like you will be able to get behind all enemies, so right there its not going to be a flat 19% boost on all damage.

Also i wonder if SV procs on grasping roots? I suspect not.

rayrdan

aspect of the pack is a nice class feature but in common gameplay it has no place.
you always a gwf marking everyone or a gf and those grant combat advantage or a cw renegade which grants again combat advantage. i prefer seeker + serpent in group and serpent + crushing roots in solo

davidagaldo

You're just the opposite of me.

I will use Crushing and AotP, for groups so the stun(delay) benefits everyone. Yesterday I carried a young team of 2100iL's through Craggy.

I use Serpent and AotP for solo with a fast rotation now that I use a companion. With out a companion, I replace AotP for Crushing with a fast rotation.

rayrdan

davidagaldo said:

You're just the opposite of me.

I will use Crushing and AotP, for groups so the stun(delay) benefits everyone. Yesterday I carried a young team of 2100iL's through Craggy.

I use Serpent and AotP for solo with a fast rotation now that I use a companion. With out a companion, I replace AotP for Crushing with a fast rotation.

crushing roots is awesome but once you find a party 3k+ the dazes are not necessary anymore
in dungeons like elol for example low ilvl pugs or not, everything is control immune