Armor Pen (aka resistance ignored) Tiamat Raid

alliera7311

Hey all I have heard you need 60% RI (resistance ignored) for Tiamat because she ignores 60%. Now many of you are aware of the current 24% mark via gear or personal stats. From what I have researched this is what you need. Feel free to post your speculation and thoughts on the matter here.

strictlyevil

That's because in Mod 6 they took away the DR cap of 24% and made it so it would scale up for more difficult enemies and dungeons. Also with Mod 6 came different stat curves.

Until mod 6 hits on Xbox, we will still be working with mod 5 balancing which has a 24% cap on all bosses. This includes Tiamat.


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alliera7311

Right on good to know. Because that would be pretty hard to reach at this point in the game.

cyberguts

Even if Tiamat did have 60% RI, all you need to get over that is for people to run with Greater Plaguefire, CW to run their High Vizier set and the DCs to run High Prophet. Or grind to get the Draconic Templar gear....

So, plenty of ways to level the field

alliera7311

Greater Plaguefire isnt the same as RI. It is its own thing so don't get those confused. Plaguefire and other similar debuffs that debuff "denfense" are damage mutipliers that increase damage by a percent. Also it would not be a good idea for two or more players with a GPF to be together on a single head only one per head should increase everyones damage since they do not stack the terror debuff.

majordogmeat

As a cleric, I tend to run one Damage Resistance stripping Encounter powers and one Area Damage Boosting Encounters as I can not vouch that everyone in the raid has enough Armor Pen.

I try to encourage clerics from overlapping some powers as I do not believe they stack.

respectpays

its 24% til mod 6 im from pc that's when it charges and it doesn't even make it that hard to adjust to it either specific armors have mass amounts of armor pen keep in mind u need 2648 armor pen exact to get 24%

mikeyflies

majordogmeat wrote: »

As a cleric, I tend to run one Damage Resistance stripping Encounter powers and one Area Damage Boosting Encounters as I can not vouch that everyone in the raid has enough Armor Pen.

I try to encourage clerics from overlapping some powers as I do not believe they stack.

As noted above the defense/damage resistance stripping powers don't really work that way.

Check out : How this stuff works in PVE

This shows how these ability generally help those with max armor penetration *MORE* than those w/o .

As an aside - my armor pen tool tip hits 24% at ~2530 and most have said that 2540 is what is needed to fully hit 24% on characters w/o resistance ignored coming from attributes in our xbox mod.

majordogmeat

mikeyflies wrote: »

majordogmeat wrote: »

As a cleric, I tend to run one Damage Resistance stripping Encounter powers and one Area Damage Boosting Encounters as I can not vouch that everyone in the raid has enough Armor Pen.

I try to encourage clerics from overlapping some powers as I do not believe they stack.

As noted above the defense/damage resistance stripping powers don't really work that way.

Check out : How this stuff works in PVE

This shows how these ability generally help those with max armor penetration *MORE* than those w/o .

As an aside - my armor pen tool tip hits 24% at ~2530 and most have said that 2540 is what is needed to fully hit 24% on characters w/o resistance ignored coming from attributes in our xbox mod.

From the URL you listed. Section 2.5

"If your damage resistance ignored (RI) is lower than enemy resistance (DR) your base damage is reduced, however, resistance ignored will not grant additional damage if the enemy has less damage resistance. "

So three states for damage reduction:
1. You have less RI that DR = Your Damage is Reduced
2. You have same RI as DR = You do base Damage
3. You have more RI than DR = You do base Damage

DR Stripping does not help those at max RI for Mod 5 "more" according to the data in the URL you listed.

And as I previously stated "I tend to run one Damage Resistance stripping Encounter powers and one Area Damage Boosting Encounters as I can not vouch that everyone in the raid has enough Armor Pen."

I assume that because the raid is pickup group, we have DPS with less than 2500 ArP and I am trying to get the most out of them as possible. While the effect is not linear, this effect will not benefit those who have more RI than the DR, my intent is to boost the raid as much as possible.

The inverse to this discussion is the direct damage boosting powers. Which in turn would likely benefit someone with more RI; than a person with an RI that does not supersede the DR.

mikeyflies

Here is an example from the linked site on the high prophet armor set debuff and how that applies to 2 different RI values :

The mob in question had 20% DR ..

Lets say you already have >20% resistance ignored from ArP, for 3 stacks of high prophet
Effective debuff = 10 * (1 - 0.2) * (1 + 0.2 - 0.2) = 10 * 0.8 = 8% per stack or 24% for 3 stacks

If you had zero RI
Effective debuff = 10 * (1 - 0.2) * (1 + 0 - 0.2) = 3 * 10 * 0.8 * 0.8 = 6.4% per stack or 19.2% for 3 stacks

24% is clearly > 19.2% which shows that those with max armor pen get more benefit from these debuffs. I believe my point still stands that these abilities are good for *everyone* not just those with low armor pen

I suggest reading over the entire PVE section carefully and going over the math in the examples to fully understand how the DR stripping powers work in PVE (as opposed to PVP).

Right near the start of the linked page there is the quote

"Xbox:
Currently xbox version still uses the stats as of Mod 5, so this guide will still apply fully."

mikeyflies

Perhaps this quote will further clear this up.

"Debuffs are more complicated to understand. Debuffs are worded as if they reduce ‘defense’ (eg. High Prophet set bonus, High Vizier set bonus, student of the sword feat, Terror enchant, Plaguefire enchant) or apply a Defense resist debuff (e.g. Divine Glow, Prophecy of Doom). This nomenclature can raise potential confusion. They are not necessarily inaccurate, but can imply they interact with the RI vs DR discussed in 2.4 With some exceptions which I'll point out, this is not the case and you can simply consider them as providing a damage bonus against targets."

fluffy6977

Would have an easier time believing that if i saw the stats for the pve enemies, is there an official stat block available? Otherwise we only have theorycraft that goes directly against what the game says, and while I don't PW as a developer at all i have a hard time believing that the tooltips are that wrong.

strictlyevil

It's already been tested extensively on PC. You can test it yourself by recording the in game log during a dungeon and doing the math yourself. I've done this using a capture card while running through a few dungeons and I can confirm that it works in the same way that it did on PC in mod 5.​​

soonergm

Does anyone know what the general recommendation for RI is in mod 6?

fluffy6977

So no official start blocks for npc enemies then? How did people arrive at the conclusion that npcs don't have a defense start but just an dr %?

Will test it for myself as soon as i get the full set, but seeing as I'm already breaking 20 mil damage dealt in dungeons at 13k gs with my current stuff (might be a bit inflated, been running spider queen a lot to get the hv chest) i will be very surprised.

indiscriminant

This will become more important now with mod 6 coming to us soon