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Iron Vanguard Hybrid Build - Is It Possible?
holsac
Member Posts: 104 Arc User
Iron Vanguard question -
Is it worth making a Hybrid DPS/Tanking build for the GWF?
Bring this up as I'm just getting tired of running skirmishes with either no tanks or tanks that do NOT know how to tank.
At moment, I've been running Lia Knowles's GWF Destroyer build (level 62 at moment) and while I can do some tanking, just don't have the survival ability if I get all the adds on me.
Is it worth making a Hybrid DPS/Tanking build for the GWF?
Bring this up as I'm just getting tired of running skirmishes with either no tanks or tanks that do NOT know how to tank.
At moment, I've been running Lia Knowles's GWF Destroyer build (level 62 at moment) and while I can do some tanking, just don't have the survival ability if I get all the adds on me.
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You might consider using the Sent tree, getting a Negation enchantment, combined with Countless Scars. Use Steely Defense (using Slam to trigger) to maybe build enough stacks on the Negation & Countless Scars to survive tanking.
How to use Reaping Strike:
- channel to max. & release
- take a fast (Shift-Sprint) "mini"step to force the aggroed mobs to move a ministep too
- start channeling & release at max when mobs have taken their step (which takes them more time than you = a lot less dmg)
- you can make longer steps and kite a bit for even lesser dmg income (but will drop group DPS too, should only be done in emergencies therefore).
Threatening Rush:
This is the reason why I picked Iron Vanguard. It's a nice charge + debuff & helps you to keep the aggro.
Unstoppable Tips & Tricks:
- fastens the channeling of Reaping Strike (!). The only reason to release RS early is when you Determination is max (to increase dps) and than start to cast RS as much as possible.
- you can't build up determination while Unstoppable, but you can start to channel RS and end of its duration ( to get the cast speed buff) and release it after it expires to get the full determination for RS (! you need to lear the timing and get used to RS, cause it's very important for survivability
- build up max determination for max temporary HP and damage reduction
The build is focused on Offtanking, but so far I could tank most dungeons by myself. I don't use any special tank gear (high crit build here). The tankyness comes from frequent Unstoppable usage + RS (inbuild dmg reduction) + heal (Restoring Strike, Healer Companion).
Approaching the enemy is always the most difficult part, cause you will try to be first at the next trash to build up some aggro before the DPS starts burstin (the lvl phase.. yeah..^^). Sprint & Threatening Rush helps here a lot. Since you are alone, you need to handle the first dmg spike by youself. you will most likely drop to ~ 30-50%, start Unstoppable to gain max temporary HP & heal back uo with restoring Strike immediately.
You really need to get used to this kind of playstyle. If you have ever tanked any speedruns in other games, this might come in handy here
Negation is HAMSTER for PvE, Countless Scar wont help you, Restoring Strike is decent in certain situations, Healer Companions do nearly nothing at lvl 70 and Lifedrinker doesnt help you either to be honest. It is also impossible without BiS gear to have enought HP when going full Lifesteal in PvE.
Btw Reaping Strike is the worst At-will for GWF and probably the worst in the game.
I know it sounds stupid, but for GWF there isn't much diversity, this is not even a min/max answer it is just that GWF on as a damage dealer can do easily 60% of the groups damage on medium gear which would be around 100million while a "tank build" cannot tank in Tier 2 dungeons and doesnt deal even 1/4 of an offensive build GWF.
You definitly need to hit max level and explore the content before you make any decisions anything pre-70 will not let you make any assumptions to actual lategame content.
Imho that not true. RS is the hardest At-will to learn & master. It has it's pro*s & cons like every other skill too.
+ 360° (?) AoE (profits from AoE talent in destroyer tree) and therefore hit's more than anything else (At-will).
+ the only melee ability that enables you to kite without much dps loss (cause you run and charge up while waiting for mobs to come after you)
+ the buffed determination gain is beast. ever filled your determination bar in 1 shoot? RS can achieve this with enough targets hit by full charged attack.
+ faster determination gain = more unstoppable uptime = more DPS/EHP
+ charge RS at end of unstoppable and release after it expires. If enough targets are hit, reenter Unstoppable immediately (!)
+ the inbuild damage reduction is really nice to have
- hardest At-will to master
- getting caught by CC while channeling and not being unstoppable results in DPS loss
- you need high reactions and awareness of mob movement and self-positioning to get the best results
IMHO the cons are just L2P issues (it's not easy and fast to master, so most people don't bother and avoid it, not that it would be impossible..
The very 1st time I played a GWF in NW, I felt in love with RS. It's a really cool and rewarding mechanic if used correctly. Sure it doesn't fit in all builds and play styles, but as said I prefered to make a build around RS. My entire build is centered around RS. So pls, stop telling that RS is useless if you don't have any clue how to utilize RS to full potential.
btw: most people think that GWF struggles in the very beginning of leveling. GWF starts rocking immediately, if you know how to use RS. I never had any issues on a GWF in the first lvls where I always read in guides that GWF struggles here and there up to 16 at least (companion). It just makes me laugh every time I read that in a guide
Okay... Usually people just laugh at you here and close the browser tab.
This is sad man.
First of the Destroyer Feat "Mighty Blade" only benefits Powers that read "Burst" in their discription. So Reaping doesn't get buffed by it. Buffed Powers are "Not-so-fast", "Spinning Strike", "Mighty Leap", "Avalance of Steel", "Daring Shout"(feated), "Come and Get it"(feated).
There is no kiting in Neverwinter PvE. You do not kite anything. Your not the tank and you wont tank. Go into a Tier 2 Dungeon and show me how you kite a group of mobs if your so convinced.
Yes every single IBS i throw out when I got my stacks up is a full determination bar. Or let's put it like that: While fighting a destroyer GWF has permanent Unstoppable.
Now here I have to ask what do you even drop for Reaping Strike? Sure Strike is the best single target dps at-will and Weapon Masterstrike is now even better than Wicked Strike. WMS is so HAMSTER overpowered because it has 2 damage ticks which both can crit and both proc lostmauth set resulting in ridiculous damage. You easily see spikes of 300kx2 + 150k LoL proc in a boss fight so around 900k damage from 1 At-will. Does Reaping deliver similar burst? Yes. Does it have similar DPS? Not even HAMSTER close. Reaping is just WAAAAAAAAAY too slow.
Why are you talking about leveling at the end? Everything before 70 is a prolog. Every class can make it without any requirements.
If your still convinced that RS is that great add me ingame @blackyluke we can do some dungeon runs and you can show me how great RS really is.
I would advise against Lia knowles build for pre 70s and lower geared players since it focuses only on maximizing dps which is good if you have a good tank and heals which you wont always have
I prefer Lazalias build because flanking manuvers is very useful when dealing with adds plus with not having high crit vicious advantage is well worth it
before I went full dps SM I used a destro IV build the same as Lazalias SM build and replaced unfettered strikes with reniforced surge and swapped daring shout with frontline surge and used it as an interrupt on casters or to give my tank and healers a breather (or to save a fellow dps from angry death who isnt paying attention)
so yea as of right now you can dps or control/dps no tanky for the GWF
its the most useless at-will for GWF
+profits from mighty blade? nope sorry it doesnt
+the only melee ability that enables you to kite without much dps loss? if the mobs are coming after you in a tier 2 you are gonna have a bad time... not much more fun in tier 1 ether
+faster determination gain? I am unstoppable about 80% of the time in battle and most of that is due to the temp hp bug... I have never once in a dungeon in mod 6 gone wow I need to build some determination its more "oh! my bar is full again time to watch teh big orange numbers go flying"
stand there ands charge that in a tier 2 and you will be smeared across the floor in no time and be spending a fortune on injury kits
I'll put it in a simple way - if you can't tank for yourself as a GWF without a shred of CC you might want to reroll to something else. Not the class for you. Mobile off-tank means you have to *gasp* DODGE sometimes and NOT facetank things.
You could at least advise against my build for valid reasons Oddis, really. Like out of all reasons (and there are plenty of good arguments, truly) Flanking Manuvers is the worst and the weakest link. 15 second CD between prones, do you have trouble running DR and WOD lairs that bad you need CC every 15s while the actual batch dies in 3s and mobs CC resistance is so up the roof by the time you even think about swinging again they're back up on their feet? Do you also advertise yourself as a 'Utility GWF" in LFG for that reason? Sounds like you're having trouble running your GWF properly or you seem to not understand your role in a dungeon. Hint - it isn't utility. And you know what, assuming you want to play differently than others, IV versions of these builds are supremely inferior in PVE. Please, by all means if you will - prove me wrong in-game.
And don't get me started on that RS being awesome argument good lord.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance