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Leadership profession slow to raise

natriannanatrianna Member Posts: 67 Arc User
edited June 2015 in Player Feedback (PC)
I'm trying really hard to understand why leadership is so slow to raise. With all 9 slots being used for leadership, it will take many weeks to get it from 20 to 25
Post edited by zebular on

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  • wentriswentris Member Posts: 542 Arc User
    Because leadership is easiest way to make money through alts - general explaination.

    My personal opinion is that leadership is toxic to economy - people with A LOT of alts bringing new AD to market cause slow but steady inflation. This is 1 of reasons leadership AD gain tasks were nerfed and RP gain tasks were introduced. I wouldnt mind if all leadership tasks granted RP (sadly its probably only thing players need in this game to progress), instead of AD or at least to make them WAY more profitable.
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  • instynctiveinstynctive Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,885 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    After spending nearly a month and making it only halfway from Level 19 to Level 20 on Leadership, I quit messing with it and got a couple other professions to 20 before returning to it.

    I'm working on leveling up Professions on another character, but already have them at Level 25 on three other professions, and really don't have anything else to do with them (can only make so many Unified Elements at the same time).
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  • wentriswentris Member Posts: 542 Arc User
    jimmyhar wrote: »
    wentris wrote: »
    Because leadership is easiest way to make money through alts - general explaination.

    My personal opinion is that leadership is toxic to economy - people with A LOT of alts bringing new AD to market cause slow but steady inflation. This is 1 of reasons leadership AD gain tasks were nerfed and RP gain tasks were introduced. I wouldnt mind if all leadership tasks granted RP (sadly its probably only thing players need in this game to progress), instead of AD or at least to make them WAY more profitable.

    It's easy to view the leadership AD as "toxic" or "cheating" or "unfair" but, actually, if you look at how much time it takes to keep those tasks ticking over vs the amount of AD it generates you can make just as much AD elsewhere in the game with the same effort. You need dozens of alts to make significant AD and that costs time and money to start with and lots of time to keep going, especially if you are trying to update the tasks several times per day. So it offers a choice. I don't think it has a significant impact on the economy, certainly not as much as those bots looting skill nodes 24/7 or exploiting the latest bug/glitch.

    Sure, leadership can be automated/botted but anyone using bots is going to cheat regardless.

    I have a modest number of alts and quite often their profs stand idle because I just don't have enough play time to keep them ticking over as well as playing the game.

    So whilst I realize it's trendy to hate on those choosing to max leadership, I don't think it has any real impact on the game economy or on other players. <shrug>

    (other opinions are available...)

    You went too deep into my words and took them too personally. I just said that if on whole server there are like 10000 toons (abstract number, I guess nobody except of devs could give a number that is even remotely precise) who generate new 24k AD thats +240kk in economy, day by day and thats unhealthy (thats what I meant by toxic, not that ppl that do that are cheating or abusing). You get the idea, I hope
  • angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    wentris wrote: »
    I just said that if on whole server there are like 10000 toons (abstract number, I guess nobody except of devs could give a number that is even remotely precise) who generate new 24k AD thats +240kk in economy, day by day and thats unhealthy (thats what I meant by toxic, not that ppl that do that are cheating or abusing). You get the idea, I hope

    If Leadership is "toxic" based on your description (I earn about 1.5 Million a week) then what are daily and hourly Astral Diamond events; as in Skirmish Hour and Foundry Daily, etc.? During Skirmish hour I can earn up to 22k AD in a single hour on a good hour on a single toon. In leadership the best I can do in an hour by combining 13 toons together is an average of 7800 AD ((9x1600x13)/24). When I get the last two up to that level the increase will be minimal.

    I'm just pointing out that leadership, among all the ways you can earn AD besides the Auction House is the least of all methods considered "good" in terms of earning as much AD as possible. So if you feel Leadership is "toxic" to the economy you need to turn an evil eye toward the hourly and daily AD rewards because that's where the true flood is coming from.

    I'm not debunking your comments, I am genuinely curious if you had considered this and what your answer to it may be.
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  • wentriswentris Member Posts: 542 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    wentris wrote: »
    I just said that if on whole server there are like 10000 toons (abstract number, I guess nobody except of devs could give a number that is even remotely precise) who generate new 24k AD thats +240kk in economy, day by day and thats unhealthy (thats what I meant by toxic, not that ppl that do that are cheating or abusing). You get the idea, I hope

    If Leadership is "toxic" based on your description (I earn about 1.5 Million a week) then what are daily and hourly Astral Diamond events; as in Skirmish Hour and Foundry Daily, etc.? During Skirmish hour I can earn up to 22k AD in a single hour on a good hour on a single toon. In leadership the best I can do in an hour by combining 13 toons together is an average of 7800 AD ((9x1600x13)/24). When I get the last two up to that level the increase will be minimal.

    I'm just pointing out that leadership, among all the ways you can earn AD besides the Auction House is the least of all methods considered "good" in terms of earning as much AD as possible. So if you feel Leadership is "toxic" to the economy you need to turn an evil eye toward the hourly and daily AD rewards because that's where the true flood is coming from.

    I'm not debunking your comments, I am genuinely curious if you had considered this and what your answer to it may be.

    meganubbie covered most issues I wanted to say. I dont think there is anything wrong with rhix dailies done by players, because most of them wont reach the cap on more than 1-2 toons/day and even the most dedicated will have hard time doing that on more than 4-5 toons. If leadership was done like that it would be ok as well, the game has enough sinks to handle that. What I meant were leadership armies, made of dozens, hundreds of toons. Very dedicated player can manually control like 50 toons (I have a friend who did that for quite some time, until he got wealthy enough to get bored) per day and then bot armies, invisible, so people dont actually imagine how much AD is generated this way - I can only estimate that looking at ZAX traffic and speculating about possible AD sinks they use. Its even worse when you imagine how exploitable leadership through Gateway can be (and is, but I dont want to give people ideas). That is why I think leadership is toxic. I dont think there is any good solution, because Im against ones that say:"Its ok to hurt players, as long as bots are hurt more", however I think swapping AD with RP would be choosing the lesser evil

    /ed: unbound RP, of course
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  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,421 Arc User
    natrianna wrote: »
    I'm trying really hard to understand why leadership is so slow to raise. With all 9 slots being used for leadership, it will take many weeks to get it from 20 to 25

    From level 20 to 25 is not that bad comparing with just from level 19 to level 20. You need to choose the tasks that give you max leadership experience which is a lot higher than the best from 19 to 20. My characters finished 20 to 25 before one characters level from 19 to 20.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • azlanfoxazlanfox Member Posts: 436 Arc User
    This is not an issue I hold a torch for. Personally if I can't obtain it through adventuring, it has no place in a D&D world. However, building businesses, alliances with brokers/financiers, and underwriting trading ventures has made its way into a lot of PnP games I've been in. I justify the methods under these kind of terms.

    At the meta level, currencies are exploited by third parties all the time and no one has solved it. Tightening the grip has only ever hurt the legitimate players, it rarely even phases the 3rd party sellers - they just find another avenue or focus business in other areas - while the honest players plod through endless restrictions, nerfs, and gruesome grinds to make ends meet.
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  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,048 Arc User
    If you want to grab your pitchfork and torch to march against leadership, you might as well march against auction house resellers...
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • healaryhealary Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    wentris wrote: »
    Because leadership is easiest way to make money through alts - general explaination.

    Not true. You can actually make more AD using your alts on other professions processing low to mid level professional resources, or endgame BiS gear like level 70 gemmed shirts/pants and rings.

    The reason many people hard sell leadership as the most profitable way to make AD through alts is because bots are mostly programmed to do leadership but not on the other more profitable ways.

  • instynctiveinstynctive Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,885 Arc User
    greyloche wrote: »
    i agree.

    all of the professions are fine,

    I should be able to make whatever color dye I want, as an alchemist. That's basically my only gripe.

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    "...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
  • skitzopyroskitzopyro Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    The key to leveling leadership is just to obtain as much AD as you can just sit back and enjoy the ride because the EXP only ones aren't worth it.
  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    I think the non existent ad rewards you get from playing the game are a bit more toxic than leadership. Anyone remember what a split run is?
  • singingbladesingingblade Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I for one spend a good amount of time working on professions. I spend more time than many who spend it on the content. I give away almost every bit of astral diamonds I make. I try to make the game fun for others in my guild and ramdom people that pass me.
  • angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    ihaveahies wrote: »
    I'm sorry, was that meant to be impressive? We used to earn 100k in less than an hour before. 22k is what I consider not worth the time. Leadership is ridiculous, but it's the only thing left that makes anything decent. The only reason it's not a bigger problem is because a lot of people can't be bothered investing into it. The ones that do, capitalise on it. Speaking from someone that makes over 2m a week.

    No. It was realistic - playing a real toon and not twinking or botting. Anything more than than 24k an hour in a skirmish hourly event is impossible without twinking or botting. If you or anyone else says otherwise then make the video that shows all gear and stats and doing it to prove it.

    Nothing more to say or see here, move along.

    The point of my comment is pretty simple: Leadership Profession is hardly the AD mine people think it is as compared to other methods of earning or obtaining AD.
  • quspivquspiv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    If you got an army of 50+ characters making 5k each AD per day (you can do a lot more tbh) then it is really a lot of free AD per day with very little effort. Imo Leadership should make account bound RP not AD.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,048 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    ... and anything you buy from the auction house should be account bound too.
    You can still sell items you find, but reselling items again won't work.
    Post edited by regenerde on
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
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