Proposed changes to control wizard class

crimpatul

- Permafreeze should be reduced in their duration to approximately 1 third
- General DPS reduction
- Shield reduction
- Dodge window inmmunity reduction
- Dodge teleport distance reduction

ofnieslaf

1) perma-freeze doesnt exit nub. u still stuck in module 4?

2) storm spell was nerfed. stop cry

3) without shield cw is worse than warlock

4) wdf is that?

5) yeah and leave TR's and DC's with the further roll and dash AND 4 dodges?

STOP CRYING AND LEARN TO PLAY N4P

regards

crimpatul

ofnieslaf wrote: »

1) perma-freeze doesnt exit nub. u still stuck in module 4?

2) storm spell was nerfed. stop cry

3) without shield cw is worse than warlock

4) wdf is that?

5) yeah and leave TR's and DC's with the further roll and dash AND 4 dodges?

STOP CRYING AND LEARN TO PLAY N4P

regards

lol

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quspiv

Again, OP with no arguments just throwing random suggestions.

hedgebet

I actually think the game would be better if dodges and immunity frames were somewhat reduced. I think that a TR should have at most 2 - 3 dodges, cw and dc 2 dodge. I reason 2-3 for the TR as it is a mostly melee striker and they have resolved the excessive ranged damage from the sab tree. I figure the cw and dc are both ranged in their damage dealing, they both have the ability to repel attackers away while they remain stationary, one is very heal capable and the other has a formidable shield. Of course other changes would need to be made in relation to this so please hold off on accusing me of trying to break any class.

beatannier

1. What permafreeze? It was done in module 5. You got freeze immune after freeze. Way too long imo.
2. We have immortal OP/DC and you want a dps reduction. We want to be able to kill, not to 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.
3. Shield is well balanced now and if gets nerfed a lot, many will swap it with damaging spells. Not a big deal.
4. Dodge is dodge. There is stamina gain in many feats/boons/sets/artifacts/enchants etc. not without a reason.
5. Teleport distance. It plays a minor role. Can be even 0 feets. Still, immunity plays bigest role.

solbergx

crimpatul wrote: »

- Permafreeze should be reduced in their duration to approximately 1 third
- General DPS reduction
- Shield reduction
- Dodge window inmmunity reduction
- Dodge teleport distance reduction

Learn to play

nyketh

I am an experienced CW my self.And as it is i find playing Cw extremely boring.
Devs need to bring back the old Shard ,that demanded gameplay ability and remove all the passive DoTs from the class.

As for the other points of the OP, I mostly agree.

Disntegrate needs a tone dawn and a IDC increase.Five seconds for a 140k+ (critted) encounter ,I think it is pretty low.
Ice Knife also needs a tone dawn in damage.
And Repel's radious is way too long IMO.Repel should have a 30-40 feet radious.Since it is a push-escape spell.

Shield is way too powerfull and has an increased radious.This coupled with the high DPS we have make our class boring to play.
It should be restored to pre mod3 changes.As it is now it promotes the passive boring gameplay.
With that we don't evade any more but we face tank other toons.

Dodge window immunity reduction?In current state it is aproxximately one second after the dodge.
I think it should be gone.

I don't have a problem with dodge teleport dinstace reduction.I think it is fine the way it is.

umcjdking

IMO, CWs should go back to where they were circa Mod 3 when the Mad King's Nerf happened.

If anyone remembers CWs usd to have phenomenal control but so-so damage. Thus they did not NEED to have shield on tab in top end PVP. But alas the whales would QQ because the GWF damage dealer got all the kills

Now, CWs are one of the weakest control classes unless they are oppressor. Devs buffed their damage to incredible proportions, shortened cast points and gimped control by a ridiculous amount. This decision, was dumb.

asterotg

nyketh wrote: »

...
Disntegrate needs a tone dawn and a IDC increase.Five seconds for a 140k+ (critted) encounter ,I think it is pretty low.
...

You might be expirienced, but you know, that this is about PvP, right? 140k+ desintegrate? Where do you get this number, from a training dummy or from fighting 1k PuGs with 0 tanacity and DC/GF buffs? I have focused wizadry and more than 13k power in PvP and even a frozen player does not take that kind of dmg.

I LOVE it, if ppl call out random numbers without any context and claim it proves anything.

I can go to IWD with my GWF, 20k power, stack buffs and hit anyone with 200k+ IBS, if he has no tanacity. Does it prove anything, no.

Today I spared with a 3k tank OP in IWD (pets included. Even with 3,5k+ IL, mystic WoE, 20k+ power, LOL-set, etc it took me ages to kill him. Nerf dmg and tank classes (DC included) are truly immortal.

commanderdata002

Whose proposing? Usual QQers?

Nice try for a nerf thread!

sasageru

I hate CW in pvp, but honestly, they've been somewhat nerfed already and are now a lot more balanced than before, adding these changes would neuter them, not nerf them.

The only bit that leaves CW ahead of most classes is their range and ability to hold you in place. Take away their abilities to freeze, control and shield and you're left with a SW and we all know how well they're currently doing

fatguns

Have mercy, dear scourge warlock ;D

jobsalotofwork

commanderdata002 wrote: »

Whose proposing? Usual QQers?

Nice try for a nerf thread!

Good point, but fix spell storm it doesn't work according to the latest release notes - procs too often. Fix renegade capstone it doesn't work according to the description - you can have multiple buffs at the same time. Fix canceling abilities to proc the renegade capstone, which allows CW to heal too well and maintain multiple buffs. Fix being able to cast repel while jumping.

Other things which are probably not WAI.
Lengthen the Dodge animation as it doesn't sync with the immunity duration. Renegade does more damage then thaumaturge, but is supposed to be a support tree, which invalidates having the thaumaturge tree at all.

I suggest they make the renegade capstone not effect the caster. Suggestion added since thread is for suggestions.

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Misery

I think the core problem of renegade's HAMSTER dps output is nightmare wizardy + chaotic fury capstone, the same thing triggers those 3m hits from damnation SW. So it's not even a SW to blame for that broken puppet lol
Devs should just look at the calculations of those bonuses, something must be broken there.

jobsalotofwork

defiantone99 wrote: »

This whole post is a big trollfest and needs to be closed.

Some of the proposed changes aren't necessary. Almost aall the issues arise from renegade and chaos magic.

Examples
CW are too tanky nerf shield! - CW are tanky with shield on tab but they give up DPS or control for it and its only 15% less damage in general. If you then add some decent healing you have an extremely tanky character and 10% ls along with the HoT is pretty good healing.

CW does to much damage! - CW have fast cooldowns like a HR, and OK damage. Unfortunately if you can get extremely high crit chance along with extremely high armor pen without having too slot the stats you can just add power giving you ridiculous damage.

CW has to much control! - I'm fine with their control but if you can't react because you die before you can do anything is to much and that comes from them stacking huge damage buffs.

So fix what's broken and change renegade to be support and not the DPS tree. Easiest way is to make chaos magic not affect the CW there's still tons of dps buffs in the tree it just wouldn't be the no brainer choice if that change was made

Other options would be a long until cooldowns considering the power of the buffs (30% damage on every attack against all mobs ) its not uncalled for to have a 30+ second cooldown. Solo performance would be maintained do to lulls but longer group fights would be tougher. First suggestion would mean silo performance is impacted more but would keep group play about the same.

drkbodhi

I wills say it again... stop whining about the powers of other classes.... unless you want the next the class you play to be nerfed next.

I have faced more control when fighting GWFs and HRs... CWs burn my CW faster than gasoline. Granted my CW has low Tenacity.

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asterotg

While there is a Mod post in PvE, telling ppl, not to open 'QQ nerf that'-posts, we have to live with this BS in PvP?

I die fast against CW, but I dont have much tanacity? You die fast against ANYTHING without tanacity.

Gear up ltp and IF you ever will have decent gear, PvP spec and fight against an equal geared CW 1v1 and he burns you down in seconds, say what is bothering you, why and propose changes. BTW 'he can kill me' is not a reason to nerf a class.

Yea lets nerf GF, CW, TR and GWF dmg, get 3 OPs and put one on each point. Interesting game.

burkaanc

a lot depends on class you are playing, for OP CW is the most annoying opponent, though i do seem to run into a lot of r12 ones

but anyway cw definitely isnt a weak class, overpowered - no, might use some tweaking - yes, popularity of the class shows that

tankiness + sustain + damage + cc is a bit much, but imho cw is in a hard to balance place since vs classes that have either enough cc resist(TEB) or immunity to cc they cant do that much, while against classes that are weak to cc they are too strong

first they need to fix stuff like LoL set, HR and SW

lldt

hedgebet wrote: »

I actually think the game would be better if dodges and immunity frames were somewhat reduced. I think that a TR should have at most 2 - 3 dodges, cw and dc 2 dodge.

Reducing dodges for PVP is fine, but it should be done evenly across the board and include the other SHIFT key abilities. They all could be tweaked specifically for PVP.

burkaanc

lldt wrote: »

hedgebet wrote: »

I actually think the game would be better if dodges and immunity frames were somewhat reduced. I think that a TR should have at most 2 - 3 dodges, cw and dc 2 dodge.

Reducing dodges for PVP is fine, but it should be done evenly across the board and include the other SHIFT key abilities. They all could be tweaked specifically for PVP.

immunities are fine, maybe animations need to be adjusted. making them shorter would create problems for many ppl playing @ ~200ms latency(basically anybody not from NA), for me it is from 159 to 230 in PE