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Pick your poison - Mod 6 CW PVE Support builds post SpellStorm nerf
angrymanagement
Member Posts: 487 Arc User
in The Library
These builds are focused on team support/AOE damage (with high end gear) while maximizing what DPS we have left.
Swap points between Learned Spellcaster, Prestidigation, or Focused Wizardry as you see fit. There are enough boss fights with few/no adds to make Focused Wizardry very nice.
Also, I run very low recovery, so Fight On is quite noticeable even with Spell Twisting. If you don't see a benefit from it, put the extra points in Wizards Wrath & Arcane Enhancement.
If you want DPS, get a GWF or SW. CWs will need a pair of binoculars to see them up above them on paingiver in top end teams (regardless of CW spec used). I haven't ran with a good top gear PVE TR in a while, but I think they can beat our DPS nicely now - not certain. Not sure I have even seen a good HR archer since shortly after the launch of M6, so not sure where they stand.
That being said, I was looking for the best all around dungeon builds for M6 post SS nerf, and pretty much have fallen on the following builds. Currently I am playing SS Thaum/Icy Veins because it seems to do the best personal damage while keeping trash frozen most of the time. The MOF Rene build is, imo, hands down the best team support build right now though.
SS Thaum/Icy Veins - Personal Damage + Quick Chain Freezes
This build loses 10% - 15% damage (with or without Sudden Storm) on single target fights. Best AOE damage build imo.
At Wills:
Chilling Cloud (with offhand chill feature - keep damage buff active, if 3 stack is active consider alternate at will usage to avoid dropping damage)
Ray of Frost or Magic Missile
Class Abilities:
Chilling Presence
Storm spell
Encounters: (rotate all encounters to keep 15% damage buff active)
Conduit of Ice (Tab)
Icy Terrain
Steal Time
Sudden Storm
Dailies:
Oppressive Force
Ice Knife or singularity
MOF Renegade Full Team Support - Team Buffs + MOB Debuffs + CC
At Wills:
Ray of Frost or Magic Missile
Scorching Burst or Magic Missile or Chilling Cloud with offhand feature
Class Abilities:
Swath of Destruction (4 points for the 20% dmg res debuff)
Critical Conflagration (used to ensure smolder is up on all mobs as quickly as possible - with 50% crit rate no need to use Scorching Burst usually)
Encounters:
Conduit of Ice (Tab)
Icy Terrain
Steal Time
Shard of the Endless Avalanche (used for CC in combination with ST and slow chill stacking)
Dailies:
Oppressive Force
Ice Knife or Furious Immolation
MOF Renegade Team Support - Team Buffs + MOB Debuffs (slightly higher damage than Crit Conflag build - requires more focus on applying smolder)
At Wills:
Magic Missile or Ray of Frost
Scorching Burst (used to spread smolder)
Class Abilities:
Swath of Destruction (4 points for the 20% dmg res debuff)
Chilling Presence
Encounters:
Fanning the Flames (Tab) (used to spread smolder)
Icy Terrain
Steal Time
Conduit of Ice or Shard of the Endless Avalanche
Dailies:
Oppressive Force
Ice Knife or Furious Immolation
Swap points between Learned Spellcaster, Prestidigation, or Focused Wizardry as you see fit. There are enough boss fights with few/no adds to make Focused Wizardry very nice.
Also, I run very low recovery, so Fight On is quite noticeable even with Spell Twisting. If you don't see a benefit from it, put the extra points in Wizards Wrath & Arcane Enhancement.
If you want DPS, get a GWF or SW. CWs will need a pair of binoculars to see them up above them on paingiver in top end teams (regardless of CW spec used). I haven't ran with a good top gear PVE TR in a while, but I think they can beat our DPS nicely now - not certain. Not sure I have even seen a good HR archer since shortly after the launch of M6, so not sure where they stand.
That being said, I was looking for the best all around dungeon builds for M6 post SS nerf, and pretty much have fallen on the following builds. Currently I am playing SS Thaum/Icy Veins because it seems to do the best personal damage while keeping trash frozen most of the time. The MOF Rene build is, imo, hands down the best team support build right now though.
SS Thaum/Icy Veins - Personal Damage + Quick Chain Freezes
This build loses 10% - 15% damage (with or without Sudden Storm) on single target fights. Best AOE damage build imo.
At Wills:
Chilling Cloud (with offhand chill feature - keep damage buff active, if 3 stack is active consider alternate at will usage to avoid dropping damage)
Ray of Frost or Magic Missile
Class Abilities:
Chilling Presence
Storm spell
Encounters: (rotate all encounters to keep 15% damage buff active)
Conduit of Ice (Tab)
Icy Terrain
Steal Time
Sudden Storm
Dailies:
Oppressive Force
Ice Knife or singularity
MOF Renegade Full Team Support - Team Buffs + MOB Debuffs + CC
At Wills:
Ray of Frost or Magic Missile
Scorching Burst or Magic Missile or Chilling Cloud with offhand feature
Class Abilities:
Swath of Destruction (4 points for the 20% dmg res debuff)
Critical Conflagration (used to ensure smolder is up on all mobs as quickly as possible - with 50% crit rate no need to use Scorching Burst usually)
Encounters:
Conduit of Ice (Tab)
Icy Terrain
Steal Time
Shard of the Endless Avalanche (used for CC in combination with ST and slow chill stacking)
Dailies:
Oppressive Force
Ice Knife or Furious Immolation
MOF Renegade Team Support - Team Buffs + MOB Debuffs (slightly higher damage than Crit Conflag build - requires more focus on applying smolder)
At Wills:
Magic Missile or Ray of Frost
Scorching Burst (used to spread smolder)
Class Abilities:
Swath of Destruction (4 points for the 20% dmg res debuff)
Chilling Presence
Encounters:
Fanning the Flames (Tab) (used to spread smolder)
Icy Terrain
Steal Time
Conduit of Ice or Shard of the Endless Avalanche
Dailies:
Oppressive Force
Ice Knife or Furious Immolation
0
Comments
No use testing, thinking using ACT and trying new builds.
Even if CWs are guaranteed with two paragon trees for dps a medium geared SW or GWF are outdpsing CWs 2:1.
Our only dmg source is the bugged Lol set. When it will be fixed "dps"(lol) DCs will be outdpsing us.
This game doesn't require good CWs and tactics anyway like in the old CN days. All instance are just faceroll powercreep burning through and all rewards are coming from HEs.
I just w8 my beautiful Sorcerer...!
There's also a couple bugs with the GWF, but nothing of the soul puppet magnitude.
Plus a lot of classes are "benefiting" from the LoL set at the moment.
So just sit tight...if and when things get fixed, it'll make the wailing and gnashing of teeth by CW's after the Storm Spell nerf look like a tea party.
And I am sitting back and slowly waiting. I wonder with the LoL set will they nerf the black ice set too
Ive never posted before...only observed but I am one of the ones utilizing LoL set ...and can only imagine how my dps will suffer without it after we just got hit with the nerf bat....I'm getting smoked by SW's and GWF's in group using the Renegade setup with all companions legendary(I know...waste of time and money) and 4 mythic artifacts. Ive always played a caster and did quite a bit of research when I joined and chose the "Control" Wizard...followed your guide to the Tee and was very happy. I'm hoping for some compromise from the devs because I will not invest my time and energy into another character like I have this one to have it crushed later because of high dps dev issues.
Almost wishing I had built out one of my GWFs, but with character bound artifacts/artifact equipment/companions that's not going to happen.
That being said the Thaum build is pretty fun to play with all the chain CC from freezes, ST, OF. The MOF can really boost a team (hello GWF & SW). Unfortunately, there are no rewards for dungeons really after you get your tokens.
Rene is still in a pretty good place for PVP (given the broken pvp).
My conclusions for PVE:
1.) Thauma is still not a viable path because the personal DPS you gain does not outweigh the team utility you lose
2.) Transcendent Feytouched outperforms a Perfect Vorpal for Spellstorm Mages
3.) MoF has become a true alternative with Swath of Destruction and Chilling Presence as passives. It combines high personal DPS with the most team utility / debuffs you can get.
Thaum MOF did not seem viable as the 5% damage buff from FtF on tab appeared to be bugged and didn't regularly activate - plus you lose the chill stacks from Sudden Storm. For pure team damage MOF is better, but don't underestimate how much easier runs can be when mobs are putting out few attacks.
For your main path, Renegade tops Thaum in any scenario. Renegade + Icy Veins > Thaum + Icy Veins. You don't absolutely need Spell Twisting to chain CC and even if, Renegade is so much better than Thaum that I wouldn't do it.
Just checked your link. On my tests, I did a good bit more dps as Thaum (SS only) than as Renegade, but at the cost of team buffs. I also did better damage as MOF Renegade than as SS Renegade. Could be gear difference, not sure. In addition to basic testing, I did run each of these builds in a number of dungeons. I should add I was using Pvorp.
Also I'll add if using the dummies, you will only get a 5% damage buff from Frozen Power Transfer instead of 5% - 15% and not using Sudden Storm will drop damage another 5% and it results in lots of hits on frozen targets which won't come across if the dummies have already been broken (they reset eventually, you have to strip gear & feats to keep from re-killing them).
Yeah dummy tests are flawed, and I described the issues in my post, but I still prefer them over field tests for these kind of stuff because you can much better control other variables. If you have any ACT logs, I'd gladly have them to compare. You can download mine in the blog post. It's scripted 5-minute tests for each feat/paragon setup.
I personally won't touch Thauma anytime soon. The plus in CC does not make it worth for me, but that also depends on what kind of teams and gear level you're normally running with. The only real difference in terms of CC is the reduced cooldown of IT anyway, because no other spell does actually apply the last stack.
Even after the Storm Spell nerf, CW is all about Crit and Renegade does that not only for you, but for your full group. Between the capstone feat, Bonding Runestones and Priestess of Sehanine Moonbow I run around with 90%+ Crit.
However I can agree to disagree and that's not meant to discredit your work. I've just made other experiences so far.
Cheers!
Yeah I actually read your post a couple of times. And along with other people on the forums to many people say that the CC does not matter. And I'm slowly starting to see that it's really up for debate. yes it does depend on the party make up. But from my experiences, what little CC we do can be party saving. Even with high end toons (mythic artis rank 12s, all legendary artifact weaps/offhands/necks/belts) it still saves. A little goes a long way. I know for me playing Thaum > Renegade because the damage just seems consistent. Even more so with spell twisting. I'm not waiting for an encounter to come off cool down because it is. And I always have some sort of weapon at my disposal.
With what the OP said about damage, in all honesty, I have to agree from my aspect. Yes Rene does have to have the crit, and it banks on it. But it seems like you have to rely heavy on it to make it work and it is an expensive way to go.
In your post though, and from others that some people have not tried or have tried to do Plaguefire. From using it for almost a month now I can say that it works wonders when there is a ton of mobs. So if they lets say, re-release Castel Never, I think it will be a more viable option than it is now.
In short Thaum does give up Crit and party buff. But it does give some type of CC with a good portion of damage. I don't even have the LoL set and I still can keep up damage wise with those that do. But to each there own.
Maybe it's just my build (9.7k crit strike with 80% severity) but when I use vorpal I just lose out on damage. Plague Fire seems to proc off almost anything. For every stack of chill there's a proc for it. And the more mobs there are the better. I will say in solo dpsing it lacks a bit because you also have to keep the stacks going which isn't good seeing as you have to give up things like Disintegrate.
It really comes down too from what I've seen if you want to go the Renegade route then crit/vorpal is your best friend. But anything other than that Thaum/Oppress/PF seems the way to go.
I don't have the act logs for this. It was done over a couple week period, and got summed up into a notepad document which was turned into the op. I still use target dummies for individual power testing and sometimes a 2 encounter rotation, but for a while now I have been primarily using skirmishes for DPS checks. Keep an eye on party makeup, crit rates, and effectiveness rates, and with enough runs you can put together the effect of changes (pretty common to get 4 levelers in your group with no dps or buffs & then you hope nobody is in there using knockbacks). Then it's off to the dungeons (TOS & CC) for final tests.
You like Rene, and I don't blame you. I started playing it when they pulled all the debuffs out of the Thaum tree. But for me, Thaum DPS is superior, coming back to we are not the real DPS anymore so I chose between a minimal dps tradeoff in thaum feats for chain freezes with the alternative of group buffs/debuffs of MOF Rene.
That being said, I am now in a PVP build, and probably won't be changing back until there is some reward for running dungeons again. Currently there are zero rewards after you get your seals.
For class features. Keep Chilling Presence. What I say we Eye of the Storm was that it procs for 6 seconds and down 20. That's a lot of dps missing in 20 seconds. Where as chilling is always up. Not to mention when you freeze targets the damage is doubled on frozen targets. For me it's a lot better option. Coupled with Storm Spell, even with the nerf its still an awesome combo.
Between Chill Strike and Conduit of Ice, for me I chose Conduit of Ice. Now this is where the class feature goes hand in hand here. The fact that you have Conduit means you're going to be spreading chill stacks faster than with Chill Strike. More chill spreading more dots, more damage. Along with ( I believe you're using) spell twisting with icy terrain/icy veins, that's a lot of chill stacking/freezing targets over and over. Couple that with Plague fire/Terror/Vorpal in some cases you'll see numbers just fly. At that point it's mainly run through 3/4 encounters (CoI, Icy Terrain, and either Sudden Storm or Steal Time. Then cast an Chilling cloud for more stacks, wait for spell twisting's effect to kick in, then use another 2 or 3 encounter combo. Repeat and keep stacking chill and chain freezing.
Yeah you're normal is fine when you switch out. You can sometimes keep CoI, Chill Strike, Shards, and Disintegrate as single target to keep chill presence damage up. I have seen people do that.
PvP wise I have seen a thread on here about Oppressive/Thaum control classes. So it seems like the build dances between control and damage which could be viable some cases. Yeah you're crit is fine. If you go up another 5% then switched to Rene you could get another 10% as an option if you felt like it and just have fun. But that's up to you.
Conduit of Ice for chill stacks & to ensure chill stacks on a wide area & ensure they dont fall off (which they shouldn't anyway). If you are running SS then COI will yield significantly more dps than Chill Strike due to SS procs.
With the ease of applying chill stacks and freeze, should we look into trading Chilling Cloud for MM to add higher Arcane Stacks?
Nope. Doesn't seem as though doing Acrane stacks is actually worth the damage.
Also, OF will build your arcane stacks.
It just seems like you can add more chill stacks than arcane. Even more so when you add chill to sudden storm.
Trying to think "out of the icebox" now that we have lost SS damage, and probably soon...LOL damage. (I do not have LOL)
Yep I don't either in terms of the LoL set. Kinda just waiting for the atomic clock to count down on that.
LOL is best for PVE & VT is best for PVP imo.
It reminds me a bit of regen on a mod 3 pvp GWF. A little was ok, but nothing special, a moderate amount and you could really tell, and stack it to the limit to become a 3v1 node holding god (pvp vs pve but similar concept).
I have gotten so used to popping my DC sigil when its off cooldown (not to mention extra AP offered by spell twisting) that I am used to regularly having multiple dailies on a group of mobs, and generally don't even think about arcane stacks. If you don't use DC sigil or just want the arcane stacks before hand, I would use MM as the secondary at will in place of RoF excluding a few fights (like 2nd CC boss) where you may need a ranged freeze. I use RoF far more on Rene than on the Thaum build since IT seems to do a fine job of finishing the freezes before mobs have a chance move much. Obviously fights like LOL last boss get no benefit from RoF, so MM is an easy choice there.