The majority burden of the new player experience, which is important and I have recently covered here and there, ultimately falls upon THE GAME. Tell me the last time you ran into someone who said,"This game sucks and is no fun but these people are super nice...so I'll stay and open my wallet for this horrible game." Game comes 1st....zonechat issues come later. Until that 1st bit happens....see previous points on FUN.:cool:
Amazing you can completely miss the entire point of that person's post, here let me clarify for you : They were not having fun, finding the game too tough, people were jerks when he tried to get help, that made the game less fun, they wanted to quit, they gave it another chance and asked for help outside of the game, people were jerks there as well. I posted about this guy in this forum twice, and people here were jerks about him here as well.
Yes, a bunch of jerks do make the game not fun. You are a jerk all the time, harassing me personally in zone chat when I'm not even talking to you, for instance. So you probably don't understand what is wrong with the situation or yourself.
Edit(stuff happened while I typed): So it is your belief that turning the LvL 15 Crisis Zones into LvL 6, which would actually help shield new players from zonechat(which I believe they can't even use if they're froobs for X time anyways)
They won't see any chat at all because nobody will have chat access, it will be a Dead online experience.
No, I'm saying that a crappy comment is going to stick around in a dead chat window longer than it will in an active chat window. How could you not read that clearly? I think you intentionally misinterpret everything.
and people who can look at instance numbers(which is not a default option for the new players...or new toons for that matter)
No the default is to send them to a single zone, maybe it says "Millenium City 18 players" like zone 2 right now or "Millenium City 59 players" like zone one, or "Canada Crisis 0 players" by default and people want to reduce those numbers even more.
and therefore adding more choices at a lower level would be detrimental to the overall game?
Players will simply see no content in the chat,and then there will still be the mostly empty zones. Canada Crisis was dead before January 2012 when it was changed to level 15. Dead Dead Dead That's why it was changed to level 15 in the first place, even when they gave Q rewards there and a handful of us farmed it, it was still dead, maybe two or three players at a time.
Why is going to be suddenly popular at level 6? Because you say so? Well you are wrong, you were wrong three years ago.
By contrast are you then also saying that herding these new players into Westside as their only option where they will see zonechat(again, default option) pretty much until they're 15+(depending on how long they remain in MC because the chains do progress there without the actual need to go to the Desert/Canada Crisis Zones) will somehow be a good thing?
Yes seeing an active zone chat gives the game an appearance of life, especially when there are no other players to be seen. An inactive chat looks like a dead game.
I mean, by your post zonechat doomies are a problem.
That is an example, I could have picked the post from five minutes later, but that was a video abotu a guy removing his mustache. I could have picked the following post from ten minutes later but "WTS Some crap" doesn't really carry any message.
Here 17 minutes of Champions Online Zone Chat, get a stopwatch, hold your breath between the minutes where something has been posted, that will give you an idea of how dead the chat is.
[2:08] [Zone] L@A: Things break especially when the development team has no idea what they're doing. You can think a poor screening process and the lack of any documentation on part of the original team for it.
So how is exposing newbies to this even more a positive thing?
If chat is active, negative comments will be removed by other comments. If chat is dead, because population is dead, then besides feeling like a dead online game, negative comments can easily remain. But that is just one example.
If anything, by my purely observational without "math" experiences, newbies tend to make a toon, try it out some, make another toon(which would follow the exact same mission paths with no deviation in the current system), and then either decide on one of those two toons, make others(deleting one of the previous ones), and ultimately continue to play or quit. So, I do not see how fewer options and more zonechat actually improves that experience. <shrugs>
You don't see how seeing less players online, getting less help, and not seeing an active chat in an online game doesn't make it feel like a dead game not worth subscribing to? You can't empathize with new players who don't want to play an online game alone? Well that figures, it's a common trait among the embedded players.
Is there going to be an option to disable the popup boxes? That'd be super.
Either way, it's in time for the new character I plan to re-roll soon. For some reason, I always go through the tutorial. I can't help it, it's like an addiction.
Wait, does this mean there will be children in the game now? (Ones that aren't hugging demons.)
I will play the Tutorial every now and then for the same reasons also to team up with noobs because why not? :rolleyes:
Holy crap something new for the first time in how many years? Hey better EXTREMELY late than never. I'm sure myself and the 50 other people who play CO from time to time will try it out
Holy crap something new for the first time in how many years? Hey better EXTREMELY late than never. I'm sure myself and the 50 other people who play CO from time to time will try it out
And this is why they should fix the Patch Notes on the Arc Site because it becomes increasingly obvious that people aren't reading the ones here if they come here with these kinds of statements.
Seriously, in the last month I have encountered multiple doomies with this "logic" who do not even know Steel Crusade happened. Now I am not saying in the least that Steel Crusade means there are no problems here nor that there have never been problems. I'm just saying it's this thing I thought was pretty cool that happened last September and.....it would seem that the advertising for it missed a noticable portion of the playerbase. BTW, most of the doomies I've actually teamed and taken to Steel Crusade sent me tells later thanking me for the information...because they liked it and wanted the unlocks.
And this is why they should fix the Patch Notes on the Arc Site because it becomes increasingly obvious that people aren't reading the ones here if they come here with these kinds of statements.
Seriously, in the last month I have encountered multiple doomies with this "logic" who do not even know Steel Crusade happened. Now I am not saying in the least that Steel Crusade means there are no problems here nor that there have never been problems. I'm just saying it's this thing I thought was pretty cool that happened last September and.....it would seem that the advertising for it missed a noticable portion of the playerbase. BTW, most of the doomies I've actually teamed and taken to Steel Crusade sent me tells later thanking me for the information...because they liked it and wanted the unlocks.
i have LITERALLY looked at the these forums for patch notes and nothing of decent substance has been added in i cant even count how long. 2 or 3 minor bug fixes, recycled lockbox launches, and single costume pieces is the usual patch notes for who knows how long. and there have been rumors the last year and a half to two years that people were being diverted to help turn champions online around and after ALL that time, a revamped tutorial where the only genuinely new thing is the voiceover work bc the art and characters are all reused? and when i voice my frustration, i get one of the good dedicated players like you and others here come around and stick their fingers in their ears going LALALALALALALALALALALALALA until im drowned out. and the reason i even come around and check on the game every once in a while is bc i genuinely love the basis for this game, and also bc ive been a lifer since the beginning. theres a reason people are dissatisfied with the state of this game. If this was CoH, Cryptic wouldve quit and sold it to the company by now and left to ruin another IP with their special brand of game development.
You seem angry, and IMO that's likely because you did not find the information you were seeking. The intent of my post wasn't to LALALALA-whatever but to call out Cryptic on how shoddy their website is in just informing the playerbase. If you think I'm all about the roses and some kind of cheerleader...the search button is in the upper left there. Give it a go and I think you'll find that to not be the case. So let's look over this and see what we've got here...
The 1st bit here mentioned phrases like "I can't even count how long" and "who knows how long." This makes it difficult to pin down how long you've actually been looking and what you may or may not have seen.
and there have been rumors the last year and a half to two years that people were being diverted to help turn champions online around and after ALL that time, a revamped tutorial where the only genuinely new thing is the voiceover work bc the art and characters are all reused?
I'm not certain where these rumors came from but Cryptic/PWE did BUY CO a new Dev Team which did make some things and were recently switched for a different dev team here.
Now this isn't everything(I tried to skip lockboxes since you didn't seem to care for them so much) but it's definately something. Is it all I would want to see? Nope. Could there likely be more(not counting things I may have missed using the Search)? Yup. But stuff did happen. The issue, IMO, is that it really shouldn't be this hard to find this information and should be better presented on the official site.
This is fairly recent so it may take some time for it to get up to speed. I could be right. I could be wrong. Sadly, nobody can really say until time passes. There's been some good. There's been some bad. Heck, there's been some ugly too. Just have to wait and see I guess.
So, I wasn't trying to drown you out but the tone and content of your post is something we see on these forums from people who usually don't see the actual information. It really was my intention to bring light to that aspect and get it fixed.
You seem angry, and IMO that's likely because you did not find the information you were seeking. The intent of my post wasn't to LALALALA-whatever but to call out Cryptic on how shoddy their website is in just informing the playerbase. If you think I'm all about the roses and some kind of cheerleader...the search button is in the upper left there. Give it a go and I think you'll find that to not be the case. So let's look over this and see what we've got here...
The 1st bit here mentioned phrases like "I can't even count how long" and "who knows how long." This makes it difficult to pin down how long you've actually been looking and what you may or may not have seen.
I'm not certain where these rumors came from but Cryptic/PWE did BUY CO a new Dev Team which did make some things and were recently switched for a different dev team here.
Now this isn't everything(I tried to skip lockboxes since you didn't seem to care for them so much) but it's definately something. Is it all I would want to see? Nope. Could there likely be more(not counting things I may have missed using the Search)? Yup. But stuff did happen. The issue, IMO, is that it really shouldn't be this hard to find this information and should be better presented on the official site.
This is fairly recent so it may take some time for it to get up to speed. I could be right. I could be wrong. Sadly, nobody can really say until time passes. There's been some good. There's been some bad. Heck, there's been some ugly too. Just have to wait and see I guess.
So, I wasn't trying to drown you out but the tone and content of your post is something we see on these forums from people who usually don't see the actual information. It really was my intention to bring light to that aspect and get it fixed.
Maybe my standards are too high, but what I consider to be "of substance" being added to the game is playable content. now while youve given me a nice list of stuff done and ill even allow the crit change thing in this but when i mean stuff added i should be more specific and mean playable content. An endgame system with raids, tiered gear and raid progression maybe something similar to NW or STO is much needed in this game in my opinion.
I have this overwhelming feeling that I should log in more often. Took a break for a few, because Montana internet, but dang.
WTF is happening in this thread? The people in this game are mean to new players? You can argue as much as you want that we don't get new content, I really don't want to rehash that. But I've built a pretty solid army of people that want to just see new players have a good time. If that's not still happening? I'm honestly amazed, there are a ton of us that go out of our way to help new people understand the mechanics. Run them through content. I see a ton of them in this thread, in fact. I could point to my sig, as a lifer, and say "And I run it as a silver from time to time to tell people what works" but yeah. It's been a few.
I'm not calling anyone a liar or anything like that, but seriously. I thought the gold spammers sucked when they popped up. I guess this means we're getting more players?
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
I would take those claims of meanness to new players with a very healthy dose of skepticism. There's been only one person making that claim and the example he's been using to back it up is well.. not a very good one.
I mean a new player who tries to melee with a level 6 inferno. Who also then refuses the offers of assistance and advice. It just doesn't back up the claim. I was just in the game last night and I saw lots of basically friendly chat, offers to team up with people, and some of the usual stuff.
Champions probably has the friendliest and most relaxed Zone chat of any MMO.
Well, the tutorial has some very minor improvements. The only thing that really seemed to change was adding more time onto the beginning before going into the "simulation". I like the exterior of the academy, though I don't see how the tutorial connects to it.
The biggest disappointment is that there is no interior social instance of the Academy. Even a short lobby with some classrooms or something of the sort would've been the perfect opportunity to expand on good places to RP.
I was hoping the two missing side quests were just gone because of testing. I mean, the revamped tutorial is nowhere near ready to go, there's still a lot of fixing to do (doing something about the overlapping voice work alone is essential). There's still time to put them back in.
Maybe I'm misremembering, but isn't Reggie's owner part of a mission in City Center? Dropping Reggie's rescue mission from the tutorial might break continuity with the City Center mission. It's been years since I've run it, so my memory is hazy, but I thought there was a callback to the tutorial in the text.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Maybe I'm misremembering, but isn't Reggie's owner part of a mission in City Center? Dropping Reggie's rescue mission from the tutorial might break continuity with the City Center mission. It's been years since I've run it, so my memory is hazy, but I thought there was a callback to the tutorial in the text.
She is...
...a PSI operative posing as her to lure you into an ambush in that mission.
...a PSI operative posing as her to lure you into an ambush in that mission.
They should turn that mission into a really hot girl who wants to go to Caprice to ERP, but she turns into a really big hairy PSI guy who wants to get into your ...mind.
They should turn that mission into a really hot girl who wants to go to Caprice to ERP, but she turns into a really big hairy PSI guy who wants to get into your ...mind.
That could be a whole mission chain. Crisis in Club Caprice! (If there was a foundry, I'd write that....)
They should turn that mission into a really hot girl who wants to go to Caprice to ERP, but she turns into a really big hairy PSI guy who wants to get into your ...mind.
Na a big Gadroon.
"OK now for the probe. ":eek:
Though, one where she is actually just trying to gain your trust to;
-get back at you.
-steal something from you.
-say that she has been with you.
-see if Superheroes are better.... oh boy, if you don't perform, the bloggers will get you.
-an undercover(or covers) reporter.
That could be a whole mission chain. Crisis in Club Caprice! (If there was a foundry, I'd write that....)
Whatever you're thinking, it's probably a ToS violation. :biggrin:
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
How does revamping the tutorial improve the over game experience for new and veteran players a like?
There are those of us who have invested quite a bit of time and money into the game, because enjoy it and we see it's potential.
I'm not seeing how revamping the tutorial makes the game better.
What about fixing bugs? I know the Dev isn't big, and I am really glad to see new people on board.
Because, frankly, I haven't seen a whole being done in a long time. The game has been chugging a long and, I really hate to say this, it just doesn't seem like PWE cares at all about the players or the game.
They're trying to make people stay a little longer. The drop-out rate for new players/alts is really quite something.
I have a lvl 40 toon on another account who is still in the "New Champions" SG you get assigned when you create the character. There are 495 dormant toons in that SG. 280 of them never made it to lvl 6, i.e. out of the tutorial. 420 of them never made it past level 9 - "Purple Reign". Virtually none of them made it past level 15, i.e. the end of the Westside missions.
Given the huge amount of game content which virtually nobody is playing, I think they're better off spending money on trying to get some new starters to stay than placating experienced players with content they'll blow through in an afternoon.
I have a lvl 40 toon on another account who is still in the "New Champions" SG you get assigned when you create the character. There are 495 dormant toons in that SG. 280 of them never made it to lvl 6, i.e. out of the tutorial. 420 of them never made it past level 9 - "Purple Reign". Virtually none of them made it past level 15, i.e. the end of the Westside missions.
I was posting about this two years ago and the naysayers were naysaying with zero data of their own to support their view.
Over 500,000 New Champions later and the population down by an average of 100 during any given hour, finally someone confirmed my observations. Today would be a better day if your numbers did not confirm my numbers though.
I wish I could reset my account to be in New Champions, maybe having veterans in those groups would help player retention.
I'm not sure Champions Online needed this. Seems like the biggest complaint is that there's not enough to do at level 40. Change the tutorial if you like, people are still gonna get bored and leave after they max out in 5 days.
Chasing the hardcore members of the church of the One True Main takes a lot of resources to be able to crank out new content faster than they can consume it.
Resources CO won't likely be allocated.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
There is a difference between data and information.
There is a difference between being certain and being correct.
If you don't understand those differences, and still think you're the one out of the infinite monkeys at typewriters who's banging out the complete works of Shakespeare, you're probably doing more harm than good.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Honestly, I can see the base logic behind a new tutorial....because some of us have seen it before...and before that...and before that.....
Thing is, ok, I get it. Polishing the new player experience as much as is humanly possible and putting on the best "face" possible does sound good. The problem tends to be, in the past, execution. When the tutorial doesn't adequately teach new players how to play the game....then you're basically STO(Or, at the very least a Romulan).
Then phase 2 hits which, if I am counting correctly, is likely the 10th revamp of Westside...the ONLY mission path at that time for the new player(and vets although they do know enough about the game to maybe form up a team and find an alternative...maybe). Honestly, if it's not The Lair of The Death Dragon....Westside is, IMO, fine and dandy. Please skip this step.
Then there's the suggestion to revert the Desert/Canada Crisis Zones back to LvL 6 which would present 3 path choices for the new and vet player alike(assuming, of course, the vet is making an alt).
And then comes the big question....what's next? Is there a next? Once upon a time The Queen City Pre-VBA Arc hit and that's kinda cool. The biggie here is does this particular version of the dev team have the steam/permission/funding/whatever to make it past the "Westside Phase(please skip this)" and continue polishing the experience for the newbie and vet alike? How much of this content should be polished? How much is just fine and, other than super obvious degrading over time cutscenes, just get a pass? Will more missions be added in the thinner spots(for me that's LvL 30-34)? Will someone take a deep breath and dive into The Lair Review(I know what's been said....trust me, I know, but this is 2015 and 2 teams later)? Will new Lairs be added? Will the bugs be squashed? Will the Creator/Tailor, one of the 3 main pillars of CO be polished up and become a better experience for both newbies and vets alike? Will? Will? Will? Nemesis? Unity? The Lost On Alert Costume Unlocks? PvE? UI? PvP? Power Balancing? New Powersets? New ATs? And I could go on.
Sadly, once again, the answer becomes time IMO. I'm all for the "greater good", "Making this the best possible new player experience?", but I'm also for "Hey, what about ME?" too. It's a new team. Certain stumbles are likely to happen.....but for how long? Where is the line between "learning the system" and the old "I can't stop it on PTS but I can tell you when to DUCK if it's coming to Live" fears?
For me, since I'm the only me I can speak for, I'm watching this tutorial thing pretty closely and have some expectations beyond that....if there's a fizzle then I will be re-evaluating alot of things in regards to this game. If they knock it out of the park in ways I have expressed in the past then that might be what pushes me over the edge to LTS(assuming it doesn't break or something). Because let me say this one thing, I'm not going froob. I, personally, do not care for it nor the lack of the ability to apply a FF Token to an existing toon. So if I'm not Gold or LTS....I'm likely history. Perhaps I am alone....perhaps I am not. I can only speak for me....and watch.....and wait...
Then phase 2 hits which, if I am counting correctly, is likely the 10th revamp of Westside...
People keep saying stuff like this. I've been here a bit over two years and nothing's been revamped in that time. There were four years before I got here. Were they revamping things every few months back then?
And then comes the big question....what's next? Is there a next?
I have a completely unfounded suspicion that Ravenwood Academy may be used for an alternate "introduction" thread to go alongside Westside. No, of course I'm not sure, and I have no evidence whatsoever, but it's what I'd do. I certainly wouldn't go out of the way to plop a new setting down and do absolutely nothing with it. They're putting it there for a reason, obviously, and I can't imagine the reason is "just a showpiece to go along with the new tutorial".
If the revamped tutorial does a better job in easing new players into the game and does a better job at introducing mechanics, I don't care for much else.
"If you’re a long-time player of Champions Online, we’d love to get your feedback on what more we can do to improve the experience for new players. If you’re new to the game, you can download the client for free, build your hero, and give our game a try!"
Did you seriously said this? Wow i will tell you somethings, You want we help you to take people to this game new people to this game. When long time players got 0 real content in a long time? You want we take new players to this game for they get trapped in the poor content we have?
1. New players will enter and just learn the way for see the game is do alerts till lvl 40 and then stay waiting like a tea bag in a tea cup.
2. A lot people give you a lot ideas and ignore them and you ask more again? If you want see those ideas go to the forum part: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=101. Start reading you will need some years for do it.
3. If you want new players first give content real content not poor alerts and more bags, REAL CONTENT to the long time players.
4. Thanks for revamp the tutorial thing most of us ignore when created a character cause is just a useless when you already know how to play this.
There you have a nice one idea for new people comes, give all us new content. No content is a signal of a dead game.
"Real content" means different things to different people. They could add a whole new zone to the game, and some would reject that as "real content" because it didn't have enough new missions yet.
Oh, wait, they did that at Gateway...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
People keep saying stuff like this. I've been here a bit over two years and nothing's been revamped in that time. There were four years before I got here. Were they revamping things every few months back then?
It's more like a very long wait with no changes to Westside and then it happened, and then it happened again, and then it happened at one point twice in a month(I had forgotten this one but Buxom reminded me), and so on. Over the course of the years, to my off the top of my head recollection, the following have been added to Westside...
-Little Italy
-Turning the Warehouse into The Purple Gang Trucking Company(forgot it's actual name)
-The Not-Westside Story School.
-The Not-Team Fortress bit down near the docks.
-The Addition and later removal of the missions in the lil park near the jet.
-Kodiak and The Police Station(also his giant monster truck).
-The reporter and news crew next to the comic shop.
-The Death Dragon Instance at the top of the building(it was originally just a mob that spawned up there at night, you offed it, and the end)
-Zoe Loft, That big Qularr whose name I forget, and Franzetti...and all missions associated with them with the exception of Fight Club which has always been there.
-The tie in missions for the LvL 15 Canada/Desert Crisis Zones(since they were originally 6 and you went from the tutorial to them).
-Firing Tachyon, who used to be Poe's mini-boss, and making him the poster boy for the Z-Store.
-Turning Kevin Poe into Not-Purple Hornet Poe(eww).
...and I have likely missed a ton of stuff that other people will likely chime in to point out.
So yeah, Westside has gotten it's fair share of the love over the game's life. The issue, IMO, is that this tends to usually be where that wave of revamping luv kinda putters out. This time may very well turn out different but it's a matter of patience and time.
I suppose. I'd be unlikely to call each and every one of those a "revamp" any more than I'd consider adding the Ravenwood Academy a "revamp" of Millennium City (or even Ren Cen). But, at least I know what you're talking about, now. Thanks!
Each of those is not considered a "revamp" but are just parts of them. Also, if I'm not mistaken it, wasn't the playerbase that called them "Revamps" but how they were presented to us. <shrugs>
and some more animals which aren't dog, demon dog, werewolf dog, bear or dino...
IN fact, just swipe all the pets from STO
I'll have the lot.
Jackal mastiff? Oh, wait... :biggrin:
Hortas, too!
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Comments
Amazing you can completely miss the entire point of that person's post, here let me clarify for you : They were not having fun, finding the game too tough, people were jerks when he tried to get help, that made the game less fun, they wanted to quit, they gave it another chance and asked for help outside of the game, people were jerks there as well. I posted about this guy in this forum twice, and people here were jerks about him here as well.
Yes, a bunch of jerks do make the game not fun. You are a jerk all the time, harassing me personally in zone chat when I'm not even talking to you, for instance. So you probably don't understand what is wrong with the situation or yourself.
They won't see any chat at all because nobody will have chat access, it will be a Dead online experience.
No, I'm saying that a crappy comment is going to stick around in a dead chat window longer than it will in an active chat window. How could you not read that clearly? I think you intentionally misinterpret everything.
No the default is to send them to a single zone, maybe it says "Millenium City 18 players" like zone 2 right now or "Millenium City 59 players" like zone one, or "Canada Crisis 0 players" by default and people want to reduce those numbers even more.
Players will simply see no content in the chat,and then there will still be the mostly empty zones. Canada Crisis was dead before January 2012 when it was changed to level 15. Dead Dead Dead That's why it was changed to level 15 in the first place, even when they gave Q rewards there and a handful of us farmed it, it was still dead, maybe two or three players at a time.
Why is going to be suddenly popular at level 6? Because you say so? Well you are wrong, you were wrong three years ago.
Yes seeing an active zone chat gives the game an appearance of life, especially when there are no other players to be seen. An inactive chat looks like a dead game.
That is an example, I could have picked the post from five minutes later, but that was a video abotu a guy removing his mustache. I could have picked the following post from ten minutes later but "WTS Some crap" doesn't really carry any message.
Here 17 minutes of Champions Online Zone Chat, get a stopwatch, hold your breath between the minutes where something has been posted, that will give you an idea of how dead the chat is.
Real lively game. If chat is active, negative comments will be removed by other comments. If chat is dead, because population is dead, then besides feeling like a dead online game, negative comments can easily remain. But that is just one example.
You don't see how seeing less players online, getting less help, and not seeing an active chat in an online game doesn't make it feel like a dead game not worth subscribing to? You can't empathize with new players who don't want to play an online game alone? Well that figures, it's a common trait among the embedded players.
I will play the Tutorial every now and then for the same reasons also to team up with noobs because why not? :rolleyes:
And this is why they should fix the Patch Notes on the Arc Site because it becomes increasingly obvious that people aren't reading the ones here if they come here with these kinds of statements.
Seriously, in the last month I have encountered multiple doomies with this "logic" who do not even know Steel Crusade happened. Now I am not saying in the least that Steel Crusade means there are no problems here nor that there have never been problems. I'm just saying it's this thing I thought was pretty cool that happened last September and.....it would seem that the advertising for it missed a noticable portion of the playerbase. BTW, most of the doomies I've actually teamed and taken to Steel Crusade sent me tells later thanking me for the information...because they liked it and wanted the unlocks.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
i have LITERALLY looked at the these forums for patch notes and nothing of decent substance has been added in i cant even count how long. 2 or 3 minor bug fixes, recycled lockbox launches, and single costume pieces is the usual patch notes for who knows how long. and there have been rumors the last year and a half to two years that people were being diverted to help turn champions online around and after ALL that time, a revamped tutorial where the only genuinely new thing is the voiceover work bc the art and characters are all reused? and when i voice my frustration, i get one of the good dedicated players like you and others here come around and stick their fingers in their ears going LALALALALALALALALALALALALA until im drowned out. and the reason i even come around and check on the game every once in a while is bc i genuinely love the basis for this game, and also bc ive been a lifer since the beginning. theres a reason people are dissatisfied with the state of this game. If this was CoH, Cryptic wouldve quit and sold it to the company by now and left to ruin another IP with their special brand of game development.
The 1st bit here mentioned phrases like "I can't even count how long" and "who knows how long." This makes it difficult to pin down how long you've actually been looking and what you may or may not have seen.
I'm not certain where these rumors came from but Cryptic/PWE did BUY CO a new Dev Team which did make some things and were recently switched for a different dev team here.
Cryptic North Bing Search Results
And in ALL that time...some things happened...
Massively Previews: FATAL ERROR!
New Emote Pack: Air Guitar and More!
Bugs: Targeted
Earth Form Passive + Dodge Fixes
Dodge/Crit Changes Preview Dev Blog
Four New C-Store Costume Sets!
Auras Now Available in The C-Store!
Foxbatcon!
Vehicles 2.0 Now Live!
New Glow Aura & Costume Design Contest!
Announcing Steel Crusade
Cosmic Knight Preview
Tailor Changes for New Players, & More
Preview: Holoforce Armor Costume Set!
Rampage Revamp Now Live!
Now this isn't everything(I tried to skip lockboxes since you didn't seem to care for them so much) but it's definately something. Is it all I would want to see? Nope. Could there likely be more(not counting things I may have missed using the Search)? Yup. But stuff did happen. The issue, IMO, is that it really shouldn't be this hard to find this information and should be better presented on the official site.
Ok, so then this happened....
Champions Online Returning to Cryptic Studios in Los Gatos, California
This is fairly recent so it may take some time for it to get up to speed. I could be right. I could be wrong. Sadly, nobody can really say until time passes. There's been some good. There's been some bad. Heck, there's been some ugly too. Just have to wait and see I guess.
So, I wasn't trying to drown you out but the tone and content of your post is something we see on these forums from people who usually don't see the actual information. It really was my intention to bring light to that aspect and get it fixed.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Maybe my standards are too high, but what I consider to be "of substance" being added to the game is playable content. now while youve given me a nice list of stuff done and ill even allow the crit change thing in this but when i mean stuff added i should be more specific and mean playable content. An endgame system with raids, tiered gear and raid progression maybe something similar to NW or STO is much needed in this game in my opinion.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
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WTF is happening in this thread? The people in this game are mean to new players? You can argue as much as you want that we don't get new content, I really don't want to rehash that. But I've built a pretty solid army of people that want to just see new players have a good time. If that's not still happening? I'm honestly amazed, there are a ton of us that go out of our way to help new people understand the mechanics. Run them through content. I see a ton of them in this thread, in fact. I could point to my sig, as a lifer, and say "And I run it as a silver from time to time to tell people what works" but yeah. It's been a few.
I'm not calling anyone a liar or anything like that, but seriously. I thought the gold spammers sucked when they popped up. I guess this means we're getting more players?
RIP Caine
I mean a new player who tries to melee with a level 6 inferno. Who also then refuses the offers of assistance and advice. It just doesn't back up the claim. I was just in the game last night and I saw lots of basically friendly chat, offers to team up with people, and some of the usual stuff.
Champions probably has the friendliest and most relaxed Zone chat of any MMO.
The biggest disappointment is that there is no interior social instance of the Academy. Even a short lobby with some classrooms or something of the sort would've been the perfect opportunity to expand on good places to RP.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
...a PSI operative posing as her to lure you into an ambush in that mission.
Heroic Roleplayer @epelesker | PRIMUS Database Moderator | Brigade Advocate
They should turn that mission into a really hot girl who wants to go to Caprice to ERP, but she turns into a really big hairy PSI guy who wants to get into your ...mind.
That could be a whole mission chain. Crisis in Club Caprice! (If there was a foundry, I'd write that....)
Na a big Gadroon.
"OK now for the probe. ":eek:
Though, one where she is actually just trying to gain your trust to;
-get back at you.
-steal something from you.
-say that she has been with you.
-see if Superheroes are better.... oh boy, if you don't perform, the bloggers will get you.
-an undercover(or covers) reporter.
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Whatever you're thinking, it's probably a ToS violation. :biggrin:
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
There are those of us who have invested quite a bit of time and money into the game, because enjoy it and we see it's potential.
I'm not seeing how revamping the tutorial makes the game better.
What about fixing bugs? I know the Dev isn't big, and I am really glad to see new people on board.
Because, frankly, I haven't seen a whole being done in a long time. The game has been chugging a long and, I really hate to say this, it just doesn't seem like PWE cares at all about the players or the game.
I have a lvl 40 toon on another account who is still in the "New Champions" SG you get assigned when you create the character. There are 495 dormant toons in that SG. 280 of them never made it to lvl 6, i.e. out of the tutorial. 420 of them never made it past level 9 - "Purple Reign". Virtually none of them made it past level 15, i.e. the end of the Westside missions.
Given the huge amount of game content which virtually nobody is playing, I think they're better off spending money on trying to get some new starters to stay than placating experienced players with content they'll blow through in an afternoon.
I was posting about this two years ago and the naysayers were naysaying with zero data of their own to support their view.
Over 500,000 New Champions later and the population down by an average of 100 during any given hour, finally someone confirmed my observations. Today would be a better day if your numbers did not confirm my numbers though.
I wish I could reset my account to be in New Champions, maybe having veterans in those groups would help player retention.
I'm not sure Champions Online needed this. Seems like the biggest complaint is that there's not enough to do at level 40. Change the tutorial if you like, people are still gonna get bored and leave after they max out in 5 days.
Resources CO won't likely be allocated.
There is a difference between being certain and being correct.
If you don't understand those differences, and still think you're the one out of the infinite monkeys at typewriters who's banging out the complete works of Shakespeare, you're probably doing more harm than good.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Thing is, ok, I get it. Polishing the new player experience as much as is humanly possible and putting on the best "face" possible does sound good. The problem tends to be, in the past, execution. When the tutorial doesn't adequately teach new players how to play the game....then you're basically STO(Or, at the very least a Romulan).
Then phase 2 hits which, if I am counting correctly, is likely the 10th revamp of Westside...the ONLY mission path at that time for the new player(and vets although they do know enough about the game to maybe form up a team and find an alternative...maybe). Honestly, if it's not The Lair of The Death Dragon....Westside is, IMO, fine and dandy. Please skip this step.
Then there's the suggestion to revert the Desert/Canada Crisis Zones back to LvL 6 which would present 3 path choices for the new and vet player alike(assuming, of course, the vet is making an alt).
And then comes the big question....what's next? Is there a next? Once upon a time The Queen City Pre-VBA Arc hit and that's kinda cool. The biggie here is does this particular version of the dev team have the steam/permission/funding/whatever to make it past the "Westside Phase(please skip this)" and continue polishing the experience for the newbie and vet alike? How much of this content should be polished? How much is just fine and, other than super obvious degrading over time cutscenes, just get a pass? Will more missions be added in the thinner spots(for me that's LvL 30-34)? Will someone take a deep breath and dive into The Lair Review(I know what's been said....trust me, I know, but this is 2015 and 2 teams later)? Will new Lairs be added? Will the bugs be squashed? Will the Creator/Tailor, one of the 3 main pillars of CO be polished up and become a better experience for both newbies and vets alike? Will? Will? Will? Nemesis? Unity? The Lost On Alert Costume Unlocks? PvE? UI? PvP? Power Balancing? New Powersets? New ATs? And I could go on.
Sadly, once again, the answer becomes time IMO. I'm all for the "greater good", "Making this the best possible new player experience?", but I'm also for "Hey, what about ME?" too. It's a new team. Certain stumbles are likely to happen.....but for how long? Where is the line between "learning the system" and the old "I can't stop it on PTS but I can tell you when to DUCK if it's coming to Live" fears?
For me, since I'm the only me I can speak for, I'm watching this tutorial thing pretty closely and have some expectations beyond that....if there's a fizzle then I will be re-evaluating alot of things in regards to this game. If they knock it out of the park in ways I have expressed in the past then that might be what pushes me over the edge to LTS(assuming it doesn't break or something). Because let me say this one thing, I'm not going froob. I, personally, do not care for it nor the lack of the ability to apply a FF Token to an existing toon. So if I'm not Gold or LTS....I'm likely history. Perhaps I am alone....perhaps I am not. I can only speak for me....and watch.....and wait...
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
People keep saying stuff like this. I've been here a bit over two years and nothing's been revamped in that time. There were four years before I got here. Were they revamping things every few months back then?
I have a completely unfounded suspicion that Ravenwood Academy may be used for an alternate "introduction" thread to go alongside Westside. No, of course I'm not sure, and I have no evidence whatsoever, but it's what I'd do. I certainly wouldn't go out of the way to plop a new setting down and do absolutely nothing with it. They're putting it there for a reason, obviously, and I can't imagine the reason is "just a showpiece to go along with the new tutorial".
Did you seriously said this? Wow i will tell you somethings, You want we help you to take people to this game new people to this game. When long time players got 0 real content in a long time? You want we take new players to this game for they get trapped in the poor content we have?
1. New players will enter and just learn the way for see the game is do alerts till lvl 40 and then stay waiting like a tea bag in a tea cup.
2. A lot people give you a lot ideas and ignore them and you ask more again? If you want see those ideas go to the forum part: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=101. Start reading you will need some years for do it.
3. If you want new players first give content real content not poor alerts and more bags, REAL CONTENT to the long time players.
4. Thanks for revamp the tutorial thing most of us ignore when created a character cause is just a useless when you already know how to play this.
There you have a nice one idea for new people comes, give all us new content. No content is a signal of a dead game.
Oh, wait, they did that at Gateway...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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It's more like a very long wait with no changes to Westside and then it happened, and then it happened again, and then it happened at one point twice in a month(I had forgotten this one but Buxom reminded me), and so on. Over the course of the years, to my off the top of my head recollection, the following have been added to Westside...
-Little Italy
-Turning the Warehouse into The Purple Gang Trucking Company(forgot it's actual name)
-The Not-Westside Story School.
-The Not-Team Fortress bit down near the docks.
-The Addition and later removal of the missions in the lil park near the jet.
-Kodiak and The Police Station(also his giant monster truck).
-The reporter and news crew next to the comic shop.
-The Death Dragon Instance at the top of the building(it was originally just a mob that spawned up there at night, you offed it, and the end)
-Zoe Loft, That big Qularr whose name I forget, and Franzetti...and all missions associated with them with the exception of Fight Club which has always been there.
-The tie in missions for the LvL 15 Canada/Desert Crisis Zones(since they were originally 6 and you went from the tutorial to them).
-Firing Tachyon, who used to be Poe's mini-boss, and making him the poster boy for the Z-Store.
-Turning Kevin Poe into Not-Purple Hornet Poe(eww).
...and I have likely missed a ton of stuff that other people will likely chime in to point out.
So yeah, Westside has gotten it's fair share of the love over the game's life. The issue, IMO, is that this tends to usually be where that wave of revamping luv kinda putters out. This time may very well turn out different but it's a matter of patience and time.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
and just read the Risa blog
and some more animals which aren't dog, demon dog, werewolf dog, bear or dino...
IN fact, just swipe all the pets from STO
I'll have the lot.
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Hortas, too!
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber