There is one particular mission, somewhere in the mid-60s, that requires (or required when last I played, around the Cataclysm) you to go into a lair. You can't complete the lair alone; there are far too many mobs. You have to team in order to clear the lair.
At least, unless you're a minor god, as the she-wolf apparently is - she can discern truth from falsehood across a continent, and can observe the playstyles of others through time, so clearing the lair solo was probably child's play.
If you mean the one in Hellfire Pennisula where you fight an elite, but I don't recall a single quest leveling up where the mob density was too thick for a soloist. You still aren't required to do it, and in fact you can skip it, though I have solo'd that fight multiple times, including on a holy priest which is the hardest class to level at the time in WoW. I'd usually just level up enough so I could skip Outland completely since, to me anyways, I didn't care for Outland and I preferred Northrend. But like all quests if you didn't like it you could skip it anyways, since the XP in low levels was drastically increased so you could get to the new content faster.
There isn't anything in the game you are required to do and I can't think of any part in the leveling process that the mob density was too thick for a soloist to complete doing standard quests, unless you are talking about an instance dungeon which you never have to do.
It's obvious you didn't really read my OP chaelk. Not once, not even once in the entire six page write up did I even remotely suggest that Cryptic make an entire Millennium City which in just that section alone, would undoubtedly be more than 48 square miles, if not more. That would be ludicrous and would take a year or more to do on just building, never mind QA and filling it. No, if you read my write-up, I suggested they take the approach they have taken in Neverwinter, or what they did with City of Heroes, which was, to cut it short, break up the areas and make individual smaller zones for them and put them to the sizes they wanted that way they could thematically fill the zones as needed and as time goes on could add more zones to the city as they like, or the world as a whole. I even suggested a similar approach to the world map, especially the southwest desert which is currently an awful mess.
Over all, the current maps are too condensed and have no flow to them, thematically, scene wise or even story wise. Changing it so they do have something like that in a new set up would go a long way not to mention, the one part people want to see expanded upon, the city itself, would allow for more, and they could add future zones. Because let's be serious, these micro content updates with 4 to 5 missions in them once a year is hardly going to make us crow to the heavens and tell people they need to try Champions now.
Like? There are very few things in Marvel heroes that would be good in CO. Marvel Heroes isn't even a MMO.
But I would like to know what you think should be taken.
Well a couple of gearing ideas maybe. I hate to say it, but Reloaded did a lot more to screw up the gearing system than anything, and we might need another gear revamp. But before that I have a major suggestion that would actually make the system more like the PnP, which I think would make Champs fans happy. Something I will be suggesting down the road. Ironically, it is based on how Neverwinter does it, which honestly has more PnP feel to it than Champs does.
It's plain to see that actual conversation is not what's desired here, what with the thread-starter calling anyone who dares disagree "liars".
So, enjoy your echo chamber. I'll go looking for folks who actually want to toss around ideas about how to help, not just agreement with their own preconceptions.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Since this thread seems to be all about repeating yourself, I'll repeat my earlier point:
What this game needs: a bigger development budget.
How can this game get a bigger development budget? More players.
More players = new people, who have never played before, and former players, who left.
To attract new people, they need to ADVERTISE!
Once those new people start coming, and start spending money, that translates to a bigger development budget.
Then, they can use that money to develop more end game content, to attract back the people who left.
However, the first priority should be ADVERTISE! to get new players. Why? Two reasons:
1) Because new players do not own anything in the item store, meaning they are more likely to spend more money than someone coming back who has already bought a lot of the things they want.
2) Because new players have never played any of this game's content, meaning they will have a lot more content to burn through before getting bored than a returning player who has already played much or all of the existing content.
It's plain to see that actual conversation is not what's desired here, what with the thread-starter calling anyone who dares disagree "liars".
So, enjoy your echo chamber. I'll go looking for folks who actually want to toss around ideas about how to help, not just agreement with their own preconceptions.
I'm sorry I offended your sensibilities, but so far, you've given me no evidence that contradicts my points and instead I have actually countered your points, specifically about WoW, and instead of accepting them, you decide to get upset. It's not an echo chamber when so far it's not only provable that you can solo all the way to the top in WoW, but you've been able to do it for a very, very long time and there is no bit of leveling content that requires you to participate in any teaming, forced or otherwise. This was especially true in cataclysm, when all previous content had been substantially nerfed down to accommodate faster leveling.
So, no Jon, it's not an echo chamber when you say WoW, of all games, requires you to team up past level X when it's demonstrably provable false.
In fact there was a big hubabaloo because someone wanted to prove it could be done, and they reached the level cap in Cataclysm, by doing nothing but picking flowers. No quests, no monster grinding, just basic herbalism and I believe mining.
Since this thread seems to be all about repeating yourself, I'll repeat my earlier point:
What this game needs: a bigger development budget.
How can this game get a bigger development budget? More players.
More players = new people, who have never played before, and former players, who left.
To attract new people, they need to ADVERTISE!
Once those new people start coming, and start spending money, that translates to a bigger development budget.
Then, they can use that money to develop more end game content, to attract back the people who left.
However, the first priority should be ADVERTISE! to get new players. Why? Two reasons:
1) Because new players do not own anything in the item store, meaning they are more likely to spend more money than someone coming back who has already bought a lot of the things they want.
2) Because new players have never played any of this game's content, meaning they will have a lot more content to burn through before getting bored than a returning player who has already played much or all of the existing content.
That's happening when Spiritual Successor of Champions Online surfaces. Called 'Champions Online Too'.
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
And playing by myself since Aug 2009 Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Since this thread seems to be all about repeating yourself, I'll repeat my earlier point:
What this game needs: a bigger development budget.
How can this game get a bigger development budget? More players.
More players = new people, who have never played before, and former players, who left.
To attract new people, they need to ADVERTISE!
Once those new people start coming, and start spending money, that translates to a bigger development budget.
Then, they can use that money to develop more end game content, to attract back the people who left.
However, the first priority should be ADVERTISE! to get new players. Why? Two reasons:
1) Because new players do not own anything in the item store, meaning they are more likely to spend more money than someone coming back who has already bought a lot of the things they want.
2) Because new players have never played any of this game's content, meaning they will have a lot more content to burn through before getting bored than a returning player who has already played much or all of the existing content.
Yeah, this has been said many times before. but when you are dealing with a company that will send STO and not CO to Comic Book conventions it is hard to expect them to put any money into advertisement without finding someone to just hand them the money to do so.
Since this thread seems to be all about repeating yourself, I'll repeat my earlier point:
What this game needs: a bigger development budget.
How can this game get a bigger development budget? More players.
More players = new people, who have never played before, and former players, who left.
To attract new people, they need to ADVERTISE!
Once those new people start coming, and start spending money, that translates to a bigger development budget.
Then, they can use that money to develop more end game content, to attract back the people who left.
However, the first priority should be ADVERTISE! to get new players. Why? Two reasons:
1) Because new players do not own anything in the item store, meaning they are more likely to spend more money than someone coming back who has already bought a lot of the things they want.
2) Because new players have never played any of this game's content, meaning they will have a lot more content to burn through before getting bored than a returning player who has already played much or all of the existing content.
And that's why I keep saying if they claim to be committed then they need to show they are committed.
And no the first priority should be to fix the game and get it up to par. Advertising now when there is nothing to show, especially to people who have already played the game, is not going to do anything except hurt Champions more.
And that's why I keep saying if they claim to be committed then they need to show they are committed.
And no the first priority should be to fix the game and get it up to par. Advertising now when there is nothing to show, especially to people who have already played the game, is not going to do anything except hurt Champions more.
I understand, you have a different opinion that me. That's fine. Your opinion is no more right or wrong than mine, and vice versa.
How does redoing this tutorial make the game better? How does it improve the experience and new and Veteran players alike?
I'm not seeing it. If someone could point it out to me I'd really appreciate it.
As it was stated in the news post, they're supposedly seeing more new players come in, so they felt a bit of a tutorial overhaul would make things more appealing for them.
New players are very important to games like this. As a veteran, you should be happy to see new players in the game.
Veterans are not the direct audience for this update, but in the end, it affects us anyway, if it has its desired effect.
As it was stated in the news post, they're supposedly seeing more new players come in, so they felt a bit of a tutorial overhaul would make things more appealing for them.
New players are very important to games like this. As a veteran, you should be happy to see new players in the game.
Veterans are not the direct audience for this update, but in the end, it affects us anyway, if it has its desired effect.
Honestly, I don't see new players currently. In fact I see the opposite especially at prime time when I am noting even less server activity than before. It's worrisome.
Honestly, I don't see new players currently. In fact I see the opposite especially at prime time when I am noting even less server activity than before. It's worrisome.
I'll put my money on the people who actually know the numbers, ya know?
I'll put my money on the people who actually know the numbers, ya know?
And not just that, but it would be dumb of them to spend development money redoing the tutorial if they were lying. They want to get a return on their investment, so they would not be doing this if their numbers did not truly show them there were enough new people trying the game to justify the expense.
And not just that, but it would be dumb of them to spend development money redoing the tutorial if they were lying. They want to get a return on their investment, so they would not be doing this if their numbers did not truly show them there were enough new people trying the game to justify the expense.
They want a return but they have to spend money to make money. That's the Catch-22. Redoing the tutorial for new players, while a noble goal, doesn't exactly say they are pulling out the stops to put out honey for them. Honestly, I want 100% transparency now. Their goals, plans, and what they are striving for. They could start doing that, at least give us a road map and as they meet goals then we can start saying faith is renewed.
Not to mention, we've been lied to before. While they are the guys with the figures, any player can indeed take a census of the games actual habitation levels at their own leisure.
actually I read the OP several times. due to it's length, it takes a long time to work out exactly what the heck,you are going on about.
The bit in your signature I haven't read and thanks for the warning about it being 6 pages, I'll think about whether I'm going to wade through that. I 'm short of time at the moment
for example, the entire long map size section of 30 lines, Could be shortened to
make each mission zone into a map, rather than having the whole city into one map. eg. westside, downtown and city center
Which is what is done in NW.
Making it easier to add new missions to different levels.
You want people to read and understand your suggestions, keep it short and in point form with a few examples. Too much explanation makes it harder to read.
actually I read the OP several times. due to it's length, it takes a long time to work out exactly what the heck,you are going on about.
The bit in your signature I haven't read and thanks for the warning about it being 6 pages, I'll think about whether I'm going to wade through that. I 'm short of time at the moment
for example, the entire long map size section of 30 lines, Could be shortened to
make each mission zone into a map, rather than having the whole city into one map. eg. westside, downtown and city center
Which is what is done in NW.
Making it easier to add new missions to different levels.
You want people to read and understand your suggestions, keep it short and in point form with a few examples. Too much explanation makes it harder to read.
There is no keeping it short and to the point. Also the --- between your paragraphs doesn't help to divide your narrative it distracts.
The suggestion, as explained previously again, was NOT to make the entirety of MC, which you keep assuming is what I am saying and just making key parts. That was the whole point of the OP. But considering how many parts would need to be described, saying just make key points would still be six pages long, if not more due to adendums.
There is no keeping it short and to the point. Also the --- between your paragraphs doesn't help to divide your narrative it distracts.
The suggestion, as explained previously again, was NOT to make the entirety of MC, which you keep assuming is what I am saying and just making key parts. That was the whole point of the OP. But considering how many parts would need to be described, saying just make key points would still be six pages long, if not more due to adendums.
1. I have 5 posts including this one on the entire thread.
2. Only the third misinterpreted your OP.
how is this "keep assuming", that implies, doing so repeatedly. The first 2(pages 2 &8) had no mention of the maps.
3. my fourth post has. make each mission zone into a map, rather than having the whole city into one map. eg. westside, downtown and city center
which unless I am mistaken is what you meant. ie. all westside missions one map, all downtown missions one map.
1. I have 5 posts including this one on the entire thread.
2. Only the third misinterpreted your OP.
how is this "keep assuming", that implies, doing so repeatedly. The first 2(pages 2 &8) had no mention of the maps.
3. my fourth post has. make each mission zone into a map, rather than having the whole city into one map. eg. westside, downtown and city center
which unless I am mistaken is what you meant. ie. all westside missions one map, all downtown missions one map.
or is that wrong again?
1. Yes, you do.
3. I am saying separate the zones, Ie you have Ren Center, all by itself, then Westside all by itself and so on and so forth. That way the maps themselves can not only be themed properly but not end up having to be so squashed down that it removes a lot of the feel from the city. The zones can be sized properly, leveled properly and at the same time because the map actually looks expanded and bigger it presents the feeling of a much bigger world, even if the size of said world doesn't change all too much. Not to mention for the PnP players, they want accuracy to the actual PnP.
This change would also solve another problem that the devs have constantly stated over the past several years; that MC is at its size limit that adding anything to it will cause it to start acting funny if not outright crash or cause incredible lag. So instead of trying to add to what is currently the MC map, they can make new zones in MC that are solely there own while preserving the idea that the city is still large and expansive.
And the final bit, the devs can expand on the zones singularly alone. The current mission feeling as it goes in Champions feels too rushed and too constrained. Not to mention during seasonal events it feels completely awkward how they are presented instead of as a new temporary zone. Blood Moon event, for example, causes lag for lots of people even if they are not participating, due to Takofanes and people trying to pile on the boss as much as possible, despite the fact that you only need to qualify to get a reward not be top damage.
In short the goal of this suggestion is to take care of several birds with one big stone instead of trying to bandaid proxy everything as is being done now.
Honestly, I want 100% transparency now. Their goals, plans, and what they are striving for.
OK, and I want to win the lottery, but that is actually *more* likely than you getting what you want. No company will ever be 100% transparent, especially MMOs. Why? Because if they were, and something didn't turn out exactly like they had planned, everybody screams they are liars. But sure, keep dreaming.
OK, and I want to win the lottery, but that is actually *more* likely than you getting what you want. No company will ever be 100% transparent, especially MMOs. Why? Because if they were, and something didn't turn out exactly like they had planned, everybody screams they are liars. But sure, keep dreaming.
Wow, are you actually going to post anything productive in these threads or are you going to just troll as a negative nancy and not really read what is stated?
Can't say I have ever agreed with 'spar quite so much. Good ideas.
With the statements we have been given about the limitations of the game regarding zone size I am somewhat dismayed at the lack of foresight behind the decision to not implement the MC map(s) as suggested here in the first place.
Not trying to be too negative, but I am not going to hold my breath.
Can't say I have ever agreed with 'spar quite so much. Good ideas.
With the statements we have been given about the limitations of the game regarding to zone size I am somewhat dismayed at the lack of foresight behind the decision to not implement the MC map(s) as suggested here in the first place.
Not trying to be too negative, but I am not going to hold my breath.
I actually have an answer for that. Because they took all the feedback from their CoH players. Cryptic believed that no one wanted more thematic smaller maps in favor of medium sized cluster fracked maps we have now. Combine this with the fact they had to rush to put assets together after Microsoft and Marvel had their spat and Cryptic was left with nothing to use, they went with what they felt and the end result was smaller mob clusters and "bigger" (term used loosely) maps with plans for anywhere from 8 to 15 total zones for launch, that obviously never happened.
The reason people didn't want as many maps as CoH had is because at least half, if not more, of those maps were pretty much empty. They had no content other than mob clusters and were poorly designed. Thematic for the ideas of the city but over all just weren't good. Cryptic and later Paragon Studios were trying to reformat those maps to something more useful before they started burning their candle at three ends (aka Going Rogue).
Honestly, with my idea they could actually add in a war zone type area of the city for players to participate in. I do miss certain aspects of CoH, and honestly Cryptic needs to take a chance and reinvest in this title before its' too little too late.
Wow, are you actually going to post anything productive in these threads or are you going to just troll as a negative nancy and not really read what is stated?
Ok, 3 points here:
First, I've made a couple of productive posts in this thread:
Second, just because YOU do not agree with my posts does not mean they AREN'T productive.
Third, half of your own posts are negative, sarcastic, or rude to people who disagree with you, so you are only being a hypocrite by accusing me or anyone else out for that kind of behavior.
Second, just because YOU do not agree with my posts does not mean they AREN'T productive.
Third, half of your own posts are negative, sarcastic, or rude to people who disagree with you, so you are only being a hypocrite by accusing me or anyone else out for that kind of behavior.
First, posts being negative and telling us that stuff ain't going to happen is not productive and is actually the opposite of.
Second, pointing out the flaws in your logic is not disagreeing.
Three, actually most of my posts are pointing out the flaws in logic and counter points. Just because people do not like to hear the counter points doesn't make them rude.
First, posts being negative and telling us that stuff ain't going to happen is not productive and is actually the opposite of.
The posts I just linked to are not negative. If you think they are, then quote the statements in them that you are talking about.
Second, pointing out the flaws in your logic is not disagreeing.
Just because you disagree with something does not make it flawed. Your opinion means no more than anyone else's, and just because someone may say or think something that you disagree with does not mean they are wrong, or that their logic is flawed.
Three, actually most of my posts are pointing out the flaws in logic and counter points.
See above; just because you disagree with something does not make it flawed. You are not some kind of logic God that gets to decide what is right and what is wrong. You are just a person with an opinion that is no more right than anyone else's opinion.
Honestly, I want 100% transparency now. Their goals, plans, and what they are striving for. They could start doing that, at least give us a road map and as they meet goals then we can start saying faith is renewed.
As somebody who spent two years demanding a State of The Game post followed by a year of conceding that there's no f***ing way we're going to get a State of The Game post, let me tell you how that's going to work out.
Wait. I think I already did.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Only way we're getting any chance of any current zones being redone is if the game suddenly has the player population and cash flow equivalent to triple-A MMO titles out there. TT has already mentioned in the past that this game's development is proportional to how much money players are spending into it. Pointing out such things does not equal to negativity.
We can all pitch 101 great fanciful ideas that would improve the game, but at the end of the day it means absolute squat if not enough people are spending on it.
Only way we're getting any chance of any current zones being redone is if the game suddenly has the player population and cash flow equivalent to triple-A MMO titles out there. TT has already mentioned in the past that this game's development is proportional to how much money players are spending into it. Pointing out such things does not equal to negativity.
We can all pitch 101 great fanciful ideas that would improve the game, but at the end of the day it means absolute squat if not enough people are spending on it.
Exactly. And the only way to solve that problem is to get more people playing. Every game has bugs, and every game will always have bugs. So yes, bugs need to be fixed, but Cryptic still needs to advertise this game every chance they get on any superhero related site.
Exactly. And the only way to solve that problem is to get more people playing. Every game has bugs, and every game will always have bugs. So yes, bugs need to be fixed, but Cryptic still needs to advertise this game every chance they get on any superhero related site.
And advertising the game now when its in a bad state is only going to back fire and cause more harm than good with negative press. If they want positive press, which is what Champions needs, they need to invest in the game and product. Again if they want to make money they are going to have to spend money. And you keep suggesting advertising, do you know how much advertising actually costs?
Just because you disagree with something does not make it flawed. Your opinion means no more than anyone else's, and just because someone may say or think something that you disagree with does not mean they are wrong, or that their logic is flawed.
I don't think they agree with this statement... just based on previous experience with them ^_^;
That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but your opinion is no more right than anyone else's.
It's not really an opinion. You don't have to look far at all to see how damning bad press is to any game on the market now.
And again, do you know how much advertising costs now these days? It's not a drop in the bucket anymore, and suggesting they advertise is as costly as me suggesting them to put the budget and investment to actually fixing the game so it can be advertised.
And advertising the game now when its in a bad state is only going to back fire and cause more harm than good with negative press. If they want positive press, which is what Champions needs, they need to invest in the game and product. Again if they want to make money they are going to have to spend money. And you keep suggesting advertising, do you know how much advertising actually costs?
It's not really an opinion. You don't have to look far at all to see how damning bad press is to any game on the market now.
And again, do you know how much advertising costs now these days? It's not a drop in the bucket anymore, and suggesting they advertise is as costly as me suggesting them to put the budget and investment to actually fixing the game so it can be advertised.
So, here is the thing: you say the game is in a "bad state" and needs to be "fixed". I'm sure many would agree with that general sentiment. But the problem is, those terms are completely subjective, and different people have different opinions about what those things actually mean, and what is the best way to solve the problems.
Now, you are not the community spokesman, and your opinion does not mean more than anyone else. That being the case, if you think your specific list of what needs to be done or fixed should actually be listened to and implemented, then so should everyone else's. And what that means is, they will never actually be done, because everyone has some item they can add to the list, not to mention a different order of priority for when each thing should be done.
So while I admit there are problems that need to be fixed, that is an excuse that leads to nowhere because there will always be problems, and every game has problems. But in the mean time, Cryptic also needs to keep new blood coming into this game, or else it will die before those fixes you want ever happen.
I know that, but try convincing them. I did. Until you can do that, you're basically just talking to a wall of No.
There are some people and some instances where I don't actually care about convincing the specific person who disagrees, but am instead posting for the "benefit" of anyone else who is reading. I'm not saying this is one of those instances, but I'm also not saying it isn't.
Your attempt at backwards logic nagus is just funny.
Wish I could find the web comic that illustrates exactly my point of you saying they should pump out ads. Was about Microsoft Vista when Microsoft kept trying to sell people on Vista, but didn't really bother fixing the damn OS. Didn't do them well at all as most just stuck with XP then.
Your attempt at backwards logic nagus is just funny.
Wish I could find the web comic that illustrates exactly my point of you saying they should pump out ads. Was about Microsoft Vista when Microsoft kept trying to sell people on Vista, but didn't really bother fixing the damn OS. Didn't do them well at all as most just stuck with XP then.
Yeah, and that obviously led to Microsoft's downfall, didn't it? Oh, wait. So yeah, like I said. There are obviously problems, and they obviously need to be fixed. But they *still* need to get new people to try this game every chance they can. It's not one or the other. They need to do both.
But the reality is, right now they simply CAN'T do what you want them to. They CAN'T do all of the suggestions and ideas you have posted in this thread and the other with the budget they have. It's NOT possible. So if you ever want those things to actually happen, they are going to have to get the revenue first.
1. This thread is getting too much attack and not enough idea. Let's take steps to correct that.
2. Dissagree =/= Troll.
3. Obvious and/or Opinion =/= Fact.
4. It is my OPINION that a ramped up marketing strategy without a new shiny to draw back anyone who has ever put a finger on this game would prove to be more of a detriment than benefit because it then becomes very simple to say,"Oh hey, Champions....well they added some content last September and....uhm...yeah." Also worth pointing out on this one is the current state of the patch notes on the Official Page because that, sadly, paints a worse picture than the current reality of this game's state. I think the way Steel Crusade was launched and promoted was the correct means by which to do so...only lacking in scale...and a second punch for the 1, 2, combo. IMO a round two attempt at both putting out actual repeatable fun rewarding content and then hitting multiple websites(many of which would likely do an article on this out of pure shock at this point I believe) as well as a mass "You Can Haz Content!" Email to the sub listings would work pretty well. Even though it is my stated opinion that Steel Crusade was lacking in getting the information out there due to all the people who seem to have no idea it even happened....I had friends come back for it who had not played in years.
So yeah, I'm looking for the combo hit and I, as previously stated, think after all this time the burden of the 1st hit is on Cryptic...not the playerbase. Give the playerbase something to take to the masses and say,"Hey! Look at this!" and then we'll see how the results pan out.
It is my OPINION that a ramped up marketing strategy without a new shiny to draw back anyone who has ever put a finger on this game would prove to be more of a detriment than benefit because it then becomes very simple to say,"Oh hey, Champions....well they added some content last September and....uhm...yeah."
That is why I think they need to focus on getting people who have NEVER played this game to try it out. Those people don't have ANYthing from the game store, and have never played ANY mission, so that means everything in the game is NEW to them.
If they can get people like that to try the game and spend some money, then they can use that money to work on content to draw back people who played before and left.
And what happens when this bright eyed enthusiastic newbie tries to make a costume and either picks things they cannot actually use or, even more common, tries to use the 4th color on anything? I do not know if the house is in proper order for guests at the momment. Perhaps call the maid....and a contractor....maybe a construction crew?
Edit: (Unrelated): Uhm...I can't even connect to the account server atm for some reason.
Edit2: The Website is experiencing technical difficulties. Regular Gameplay is not affected...........Attempting to connect to controller tracker...Oh, it would appear regular gameplay kinda IS affected.
Edit3: Ok, launcher vanished and now even it won't load....I get the hint. Screw it, onto T2 Robocraft! CHARGE!
BTW, this is kinda what I've been hinting at, Nagus....and you're mostly STO so you know it much more than I do, sadly.
And today marks the beginning of the Risa Summer Event in STO, and I believe next week the summer Jubilee starts in Neverwinter. If you want to get people interested having events like these would be a start.
So much could be done to get people playing, a brand new event zone would go a long way to getting people interested.
And today marks the beginning of the Risa Summer Event in STO, and I believe next week the summer Jubilee starts in Neverwinter. If you want to get people interested having events like these would be a start.
So much could be done to get people playing, a brand new event zone would go a long way to getting people interested.
I have mixed feelings about events. On the one hand, I'm not a big fan of development resources going into temporary content that is only playable a month or two out of the hear. On the other hand, I understand the marketing strategy of something only lasting for a limited time, and therefore providing more of an incentive to play during that time. So for the latter reason, I understand how they are good for a game.
On a publicity note, at least Champs is getting a little attention again:
I have mixed feelings about events. On the one hand, I'm not a big fan of development resources going into temporary content that is only playable a month or two out of the hear. On the other hand, I understand the marketing strategy of something only lasting for a limited time, and therefore providing more of an incentive to play during that time. So for the latter reason, I understand how they are good for a game.
On the gripping hand, you only incur the major cost of creating a seasonal event once. When it rolls around again in subsequent years, development only has to concern itself with minor tweaks before moving on to bigger and better things.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
I have mixed feelings about events. On the one hand, I'm not a big fan of development resources going into temporary content that is only playable a month or two out of the hear. On the other hand, I understand the marketing strategy of something only lasting for a limited time, and therefore providing more of an incentive to play during that time. So for the latter reason, I understand how they are good for a game.
On a publicity note, at least Champs is getting a little attention again:
A reoccurring event once a year is not a one time thing and not temporary content. In fact, it gives the players the feeling that the world changes and evolves as it grows. And it also strengthens player to dev relations as the devs acknowledge certain events in the real world to create fun things to do in game.
Take any event in any game, and you will notice a spike in player activity. Even the Blood Moon event when it was run monthly had a noticeable, but small spike due to the fact it was just the same vent over and over and over again constantly, in server activity.
Events also help break up the tedium between lulls in development for the "next big thing" developers are planning and the current game play where players are just repeating their regular routines. Yea, events aren't for everyone, but they get people in the game, and do a lot more for the community, especially if the events are thematic.
And reading the comments on that massively article are not what I call... inspiring. In fact many of them are quite banal. In fact one of the earlier comments pretty much echo'd one of the mistakes I pretty much believe Cryptic made; locking freeform behind the pay wall.
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If you mean the one in Hellfire Pennisula where you fight an elite, but I don't recall a single quest leveling up where the mob density was too thick for a soloist. You still aren't required to do it, and in fact you can skip it, though I have solo'd that fight multiple times, including on a holy priest which is the hardest class to level at the time in WoW. I'd usually just level up enough so I could skip Outland completely since, to me anyways, I didn't care for Outland and I preferred Northrend. But like all quests if you didn't like it you could skip it anyways, since the XP in low levels was drastically increased so you could get to the new content faster.
There isn't anything in the game you are required to do and I can't think of any part in the leveling process that the mob density was too thick for a soloist to complete doing standard quests, unless you are talking about an instance dungeon which you never have to do.
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It's obvious you didn't really read my OP chaelk. Not once, not even once in the entire six page write up did I even remotely suggest that Cryptic make an entire Millennium City which in just that section alone, would undoubtedly be more than 48 square miles, if not more. That would be ludicrous and would take a year or more to do on just building, never mind QA and filling it. No, if you read my write-up, I suggested they take the approach they have taken in Neverwinter, or what they did with City of Heroes, which was, to cut it short, break up the areas and make individual smaller zones for them and put them to the sizes they wanted that way they could thematically fill the zones as needed and as time goes on could add more zones to the city as they like, or the world as a whole. I even suggested a similar approach to the world map, especially the southwest desert which is currently an awful mess.
Over all, the current maps are too condensed and have no flow to them, thematically, scene wise or even story wise. Changing it so they do have something like that in a new set up would go a long way not to mention, the one part people want to see expanded upon, the city itself, would allow for more, and they could add future zones. Because let's be serious, these micro content updates with 4 to 5 missions in them once a year is hardly going to make us crow to the heavens and tell people they need to try Champions now.
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Like? There are very few things in Marvel heroes that would be good in CO. Marvel Heroes isn't even a MMO.
But I would like to know what you think should be taken.
Well a couple of gearing ideas maybe. I hate to say it, but Reloaded did a lot more to screw up the gearing system than anything, and we might need another gear revamp. But before that I have a major suggestion that would actually make the system more like the PnP, which I think would make Champs fans happy. Something I will be suggesting down the road. Ironically, it is based on how Neverwinter does it, which honestly has more PnP feel to it than Champs does.
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So, enjoy your echo chamber. I'll go looking for folks who actually want to toss around ideas about how to help, not just agreement with their own preconceptions.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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What this game needs: a bigger development budget.
How can this game get a bigger development budget? More players.
More players = new people, who have never played before, and former players, who left.
To attract new people, they need to ADVERTISE!
Once those new people start coming, and start spending money, that translates to a bigger development budget.
Then, they can use that money to develop more end game content, to attract back the people who left.
However, the first priority should be ADVERTISE! to get new players. Why? Two reasons:
1) Because new players do not own anything in the item store, meaning they are more likely to spend more money than someone coming back who has already bought a lot of the things they want.
2) Because new players have never played any of this game's content, meaning they will have a lot more content to burn through before getting bored than a returning player who has already played much or all of the existing content.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I'm sorry I offended your sensibilities, but so far, you've given me no evidence that contradicts my points and instead I have actually countered your points, specifically about WoW, and instead of accepting them, you decide to get upset. It's not an echo chamber when so far it's not only provable that you can solo all the way to the top in WoW, but you've been able to do it for a very, very long time and there is no bit of leveling content that requires you to participate in any teaming, forced or otherwise. This was especially true in cataclysm, when all previous content had been substantially nerfed down to accommodate faster leveling.
So, no Jon, it's not an echo chamber when you say WoW, of all games, requires you to team up past level X when it's demonstrably provable false.
In fact there was a big hubabaloo because someone wanted to prove it could be done, and they reached the level cap in Cataclysm, by doing nothing but picking flowers. No quests, no monster grinding, just basic herbalism and I believe mining.
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That's happening when Spiritual Successor of Champions Online surfaces. Called 'Champions Online Too'.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
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Yeah, this has been said many times before. but when you are dealing with a company that will send STO and not CO to Comic Book conventions it is hard to expect them to put any money into advertisement without finding someone to just hand them the money to do so.
And that's why I keep saying if they claim to be committed then they need to show they are committed.
And no the first priority should be to fix the game and get it up to par. Advertising now when there is nothing to show, especially to people who have already played the game, is not going to do anything except hurt Champions more.
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I understand, you have a different opinion that me. That's fine. Your opinion is no more right or wrong than mine, and vice versa.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
How does redoing this tutorial make the game better? How does it improve the experience and new and Veteran players alike?
I'm not seeing it. If someone could point it out to me I'd really appreciate it.
As it was stated in the news post, they're supposedly seeing more new players come in, so they felt a bit of a tutorial overhaul would make things more appealing for them.
New players are very important to games like this. As a veteran, you should be happy to see new players in the game.
Veterans are not the direct audience for this update, but in the end, it affects us anyway, if it has its desired effect.
Honestly, I don't see new players currently. In fact I see the opposite especially at prime time when I am noting even less server activity than before. It's worrisome.
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I'll put my money on the people who actually know the numbers, ya know?
Or enable bots to get thru it faster to MC.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
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And not just that, but it would be dumb of them to spend development money redoing the tutorial if they were lying. They want to get a return on their investment, so they would not be doing this if their numbers did not truly show them there were enough new people trying the game to justify the expense.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
They want a return but they have to spend money to make money. That's the Catch-22. Redoing the tutorial for new players, while a noble goal, doesn't exactly say they are pulling out the stops to put out honey for them. Honestly, I want 100% transparency now. Their goals, plans, and what they are striving for. They could start doing that, at least give us a road map and as they meet goals then we can start saying faith is renewed.
Not to mention, we've been lied to before. While they are the guys with the figures, any player can indeed take a census of the games actual habitation levels at their own leisure.
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actually I read the OP several times. due to it's length, it takes a long time to work out exactly what the heck,you are going on about.
The bit in your signature I haven't read and thanks for the warning about it being 6 pages, I'll think about whether I'm going to wade through that. I 'm short of time at the moment
for example, the entire long map size section of 30 lines, Could be shortened to
make each mission zone into a map, rather than having the whole city into one map. eg. westside, downtown and city center
Which is what is done in NW.
Making it easier to add new missions to different levels.
You want people to read and understand your suggestions, keep it short and in point form with a few examples. Too much explanation makes it harder to read.
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There is no keeping it short and to the point. Also the --- between your paragraphs doesn't help to divide your narrative it distracts.
The suggestion, as explained previously again, was NOT to make the entirety of MC, which you keep assuming is what I am saying and just making key parts. That was the whole point of the OP. But considering how many parts would need to be described, saying just make key points would still be six pages long, if not more due to adendums.
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1. I have 5 posts including this one on the entire thread.
2. Only the third misinterpreted your OP.
how is this "keep assuming", that implies, doing so repeatedly. The first 2(pages 2 &8) had no mention of the maps.
3. my fourth post has.
make each mission zone into a map, rather than having the whole city into one map. eg. westside, downtown and city center
which unless I am mistaken is what you meant. ie. all westside missions one map, all downtown missions one map.
or is that wrong again?
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1. Yes, you do.
3. I am saying separate the zones, Ie you have Ren Center, all by itself, then Westside all by itself and so on and so forth. That way the maps themselves can not only be themed properly but not end up having to be so squashed down that it removes a lot of the feel from the city. The zones can be sized properly, leveled properly and at the same time because the map actually looks expanded and bigger it presents the feeling of a much bigger world, even if the size of said world doesn't change all too much. Not to mention for the PnP players, they want accuracy to the actual PnP.
This change would also solve another problem that the devs have constantly stated over the past several years; that MC is at its size limit that adding anything to it will cause it to start acting funny if not outright crash or cause incredible lag. So instead of trying to add to what is currently the MC map, they can make new zones in MC that are solely there own while preserving the idea that the city is still large and expansive.
And the final bit, the devs can expand on the zones singularly alone. The current mission feeling as it goes in Champions feels too rushed and too constrained. Not to mention during seasonal events it feels completely awkward how they are presented instead of as a new temporary zone. Blood Moon event, for example, causes lag for lots of people even if they are not participating, due to Takofanes and people trying to pile on the boss as much as possible, despite the fact that you only need to qualify to get a reward not be top damage.
In short the goal of this suggestion is to take care of several birds with one big stone instead of trying to bandaid proxy everything as is being done now.
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OK, and I want to win the lottery, but that is actually *more* likely than you getting what you want. No company will ever be 100% transparent, especially MMOs. Why? Because if they were, and something didn't turn out exactly like they had planned, everybody screams they are liars. But sure, keep dreaming.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Wow, are you actually going to post anything productive in these threads or are you going to just troll as a negative nancy and not really read what is stated?
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With the statements we have been given about the limitations of the game regarding zone size I am somewhat dismayed at the lack of foresight behind the decision to not implement the MC map(s) as suggested here in the first place.
Not trying to be too negative, but I am not going to hold my breath.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I actually have an answer for that. Because they took all the feedback from their CoH players. Cryptic believed that no one wanted more thematic smaller maps in favor of medium sized cluster fracked maps we have now. Combine this with the fact they had to rush to put assets together after Microsoft and Marvel had their spat and Cryptic was left with nothing to use, they went with what they felt and the end result was smaller mob clusters and "bigger" (term used loosely) maps with plans for anywhere from 8 to 15 total zones for launch, that obviously never happened.
The reason people didn't want as many maps as CoH had is because at least half, if not more, of those maps were pretty much empty. They had no content other than mob clusters and were poorly designed. Thematic for the ideas of the city but over all just weren't good. Cryptic and later Paragon Studios were trying to reformat those maps to something more useful before they started burning their candle at three ends (aka Going Rogue).
Honestly, with my idea they could actually add in a war zone type area of the city for players to participate in. I do miss certain aspects of CoH, and honestly Cryptic needs to take a chance and reinvest in this title before its' too little too late.
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Ok, 3 points here:
First, I've made a couple of productive posts in this thread:
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=4780121&postcount=30
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=4784641&postcount=108
Second, just because YOU do not agree with my posts does not mean they AREN'T productive.
Third, half of your own posts are negative, sarcastic, or rude to people who disagree with you, so you are only being a hypocrite by accusing me or anyone else out for that kind of behavior.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
First, posts being negative and telling us that stuff ain't going to happen is not productive and is actually the opposite of.
Second, pointing out the flaws in your logic is not disagreeing.
Three, actually most of my posts are pointing out the flaws in logic and counter points. Just because people do not like to hear the counter points doesn't make them rude.
So, no, nagus, you don't get a pass on this one.
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The posts I just linked to are not negative. If you think they are, then quote the statements in them that you are talking about.
Just because you disagree with something does not make it flawed. Your opinion means no more than anyone else's, and just because someone may say or think something that you disagree with does not mean they are wrong, or that their logic is flawed.
See above; just because you disagree with something does not make it flawed. You are not some kind of logic God that gets to decide what is right and what is wrong. You are just a person with an opinion that is no more right than anyone else's opinion.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
As somebody who spent two years demanding a State of The Game post followed by a year of conceding that there's no f***ing way we're going to get a State of The Game post, let me tell you how that's going to work out.
Wait. I think I already did.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
We can all pitch 101 great fanciful ideas that would improve the game, but at the end of the day it means absolute squat if not enough people are spending on it.
Exactly. And the only way to solve that problem is to get more people playing. Every game has bugs, and every game will always have bugs. So yes, bugs need to be fixed, but Cryptic still needs to advertise this game every chance they get on any superhero related site.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
And advertising the game now when its in a bad state is only going to back fire and cause more harm than good with negative press. If they want positive press, which is what Champions needs, they need to invest in the game and product. Again if they want to make money they are going to have to spend money. And you keep suggesting advertising, do you know how much advertising actually costs?
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That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but your opinion is no more right than anyone else's.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I don't think they agree with this statement... just based on previous experience with them ^_^;
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
It's not really an opinion. You don't have to look far at all to see how damning bad press is to any game on the market now.
And again, do you know how much advertising costs now these days? It's not a drop in the bucket anymore, and suggesting they advertise is as costly as me suggesting them to put the budget and investment to actually fixing the game so it can be advertised.
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It doesn't matter if they agree or not, it is still true.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Now who's being negative? :rolleyes:
I know that, but try convincing them. I tried. Until you can do that, you're basically just talking to a wall of No.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
So, here is the thing: you say the game is in a "bad state" and needs to be "fixed". I'm sure many would agree with that general sentiment. But the problem is, those terms are completely subjective, and different people have different opinions about what those things actually mean, and what is the best way to solve the problems.
Now, you are not the community spokesman, and your opinion does not mean more than anyone else. That being the case, if you think your specific list of what needs to be done or fixed should actually be listened to and implemented, then so should everyone else's. And what that means is, they will never actually be done, because everyone has some item they can add to the list, not to mention a different order of priority for when each thing should be done.
So while I admit there are problems that need to be fixed, that is an excuse that leads to nowhere because there will always be problems, and every game has problems. But in the mean time, Cryptic also needs to keep new blood coming into this game, or else it will die before those fixes you want ever happen.
Don't you see? It's only negative if they don't agree with it
There are some people and some instances where I don't actually care about convincing the specific person who disagrees, but am instead posting for the "benefit" of anyone else who is reading. I'm not saying this is one of those instances, but I'm also not saying it isn't.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Wish I could find the web comic that illustrates exactly my point of you saying they should pump out ads. Was about Microsoft Vista when Microsoft kept trying to sell people on Vista, but didn't really bother fixing the damn OS. Didn't do them well at all as most just stuck with XP then.
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Yeah, and that obviously led to Microsoft's downfall, didn't it? Oh, wait. So yeah, like I said. There are obviously problems, and they obviously need to be fixed. But they *still* need to get new people to try this game every chance they can. It's not one or the other. They need to do both.
But the reality is, right now they simply CAN'T do what you want them to. They CAN'T do all of the suggestions and ideas you have posted in this thread and the other with the budget they have. It's NOT possible. So if you ever want those things to actually happen, they are going to have to get the revenue first.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
2. Dissagree =/= Troll.
3. Obvious and/or Opinion =/= Fact.
4. It is my OPINION that a ramped up marketing strategy without a new shiny to draw back anyone who has ever put a finger on this game would prove to be more of a detriment than benefit because it then becomes very simple to say,"Oh hey, Champions....well they added some content last September and....uhm...yeah." Also worth pointing out on this one is the current state of the patch notes on the Official Page because that, sadly, paints a worse picture than the current reality of this game's state. I think the way Steel Crusade was launched and promoted was the correct means by which to do so...only lacking in scale...and a second punch for the 1, 2, combo. IMO a round two attempt at both putting out actual repeatable fun rewarding content and then hitting multiple websites(many of which would likely do an article on this out of pure shock at this point I believe) as well as a mass "You Can Haz Content!" Email to the sub listings would work pretty well. Even though it is my stated opinion that Steel Crusade was lacking in getting the information out there due to all the people who seem to have no idea it even happened....I had friends come back for it who had not played in years.
So yeah, I'm looking for the combo hit and I, as previously stated, think after all this time the burden of the 1st hit is on Cryptic...not the playerbase. Give the playerbase something to take to the masses and say,"Hey! Look at this!" and then we'll see how the results pan out.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
That is why I think they need to focus on getting people who have NEVER played this game to try it out. Those people don't have ANYthing from the game store, and have never played ANY mission, so that means everything in the game is NEW to them.
If they can get people like that to try the game and spend some money, then they can use that money to work on content to draw back people who played before and left.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Edit: (Unrelated): Uhm...I can't even connect to the account server atm for some reason.
Edit2: The Website is experiencing technical difficulties. Regular Gameplay is not affected...........Attempting to connect to controller tracker...Oh, it would appear regular gameplay kinda IS affected.
Edit3: Ok, launcher vanished and now even it won't load....I get the hint. Screw it, onto T2 Robocraft! CHARGE!
BTW, this is kinda what I've been hinting at, Nagus....and you're mostly STO so you know it much more than I do, sadly.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
So much could be done to get people playing, a brand new event zone would go a long way to getting people interested.
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I have mixed feelings about events. On the one hand, I'm not a big fan of development resources going into temporary content that is only playable a month or two out of the hear. On the other hand, I understand the marketing strategy of something only lasting for a limited time, and therefore providing more of an incentive to play during that time. So for the latter reason, I understand how they are good for a game.
On a publicity note, at least Champs is getting a little attention again:
http://massivelyop.com/2015/06/04/champions-online-revamping-its-tutorial/
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
On the gripping hand, you only incur the major cost of creating a seasonal event once. When it rolls around again in subsequent years, development only has to concern itself with minor tweaks before moving on to bigger and better things.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
A reoccurring event once a year is not a one time thing and not temporary content. In fact, it gives the players the feeling that the world changes and evolves as it grows. And it also strengthens player to dev relations as the devs acknowledge certain events in the real world to create fun things to do in game.
Take any event in any game, and you will notice a spike in player activity. Even the Blood Moon event when it was run monthly had a noticeable, but small spike due to the fact it was just the same vent over and over and over again constantly, in server activity.
Events also help break up the tedium between lulls in development for the "next big thing" developers are planning and the current game play where players are just repeating their regular routines. Yea, events aren't for everyone, but they get people in the game, and do a lot more for the community, especially if the events are thematic.
And reading the comments on that massively article are not what I call... inspiring. In fact many of them are quite banal. In fact one of the earlier comments pretty much echo'd one of the mistakes I pretty much believe Cryptic made; locking freeform behind the pay wall.
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