It would be nice to see some link between the powerhouse and the academy at the end of the tutorial, instead of running to find it. This will also provide a good opportunity to open some instance, a training room, social instance. This can work like the gym, where you can run a mission and also use it as a social instance. It's such a waste to add the academy (an important part of introducing the player to the game) and not make use of it after.
This is a good point. The current room being used as the introduction to the game is ugly as sin.
They should use the ever unused Powerhouse Arena...such waste of dev time (subscription fees) and such a nice place.
Everything can line up right over here,
The exit to the main Lobby of the Powerhouse can be level gated or mission locked, or the simulation can glitch and drop the character in a random game instance, haha! Just think of the possibilities...
They might need to change the "Arena" language to "Simulation" or "Test" or something like that.
Except people still use the arena. It would be simple enough to copy the resources from that place and add a new similar area though.
They don't use it enough to make a difference compared to the value it could be in making the game not look horrible. I've never once seen it in use, ever, not a single time I've gone in there. 10:30AM server time on a Saturday, player population is the highest its been all week, nobody in the Arena but me wasting double XP.
Meanwhile there is 18 people in the tutorial who could have seen a cool map at the start of the game, instead of waiting to play for thirty minutes before running into to find the place empty and running out like that little level 6 I just bumped into when I checked for players in the Arena.
From my visit to the New Tutorial.
1) Replace "Z" with "F" for interacting with the environment but still showing "Z" in the tool tips
2) Giving instructions after 2-3 times of already doing something (Picking up loot, Equipping an item)
3) Waiting till the very end to learn about blocking
A) Outclassing "THE CHAMPIONS" Not being under powered, not being equal.
Five taps and I break out of BalckTalon's hold. Defender is out for the rest of the fight...
Being told that once you enter Champions HQ you cannot go back to do missed missions but there is no list of Tutorial missions to make sure you did them all.
C) Ravenwood Only having one NPC for interaction. (Post Simulation) SUGGESTION: Move the Arena from PH to Ravenwood. And have a bunch of student NPC's sitting down and making comments during the fight. (Possible place for some Role Play as guest instructors)
This is a really encouraging sign to me. Games only revamp their tutorials when they are seeing a lot of new players, or are about to do some kind of advertising and expect new players afterwards. So either way, this is great news.
Is there going to be an option to disable the popup boxes? That'd be super.
Either way, it's in time for the new character I plan to re-roll soon. For some reason, I always go through the tutorial. I can't help it, it's like an addiction.
Wait, does this mean there will be children in the game now? (Ones that aren't hugging demons.)
Finished the new tutorial this morning, and then stood around in RenCen for a little while. I'm glad to report that the Block issue is addressed again just after you speak to Defender for the first time, just before going in to fight Black Talon; it's at the bottom of the dialog box, separated from the rest for emphasis, in bold italics with the word "IMPORTANT" in all caps, bold, italic, red. Basically, if you can read at all, you have that information to hand.
I'm also glad to report that as you stand around in RenCen, the NPCs that come running up to you no longer thank you for saving the city from the Qularr. Instead, they ask if you've run that new simulation of the Invasion in the Powerhouse, and how close it is to the real thing; or whether you've talked to PLATO, and if she's related to SOCRATES; or that they've heard you talked to Rowan, and didn't she used to be a hero a while back?
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Can I just say that this is awesome? Haven't tested it yet, but the tutorial is something I keep coming back to on new characters even though I can skip it just because I periodically like to see how the newest players handle the game, what they think and so on.
That's why most of my suggestions box posts are mostly based around the tutorial. Because it's the first thing people see when they start playing the game proper.
Might hop onto the PTS and check it out tonight. Good to see they're adding a fresh lick of paint to the old tutorial, give it some zazzle for the new players.
So does this mean that we will see the west side quests eventually redone? no damage from the invasion, the gang leaders hi pan uses to summon the dragon gone so either new leader of those gangs or maybe those gangs gone and new gangs have taken there place. You know progress events abit and maybe give some new starting content.
So does this mean that we will see the west side quests eventually redone? no damage from the invasion, the gang leaders hi pan uses to summon the dragon gone so either new leader of those gangs or maybe those gangs gone and new gangs have taken there place. You know progress events abit and maybe give some new starting content.
Or....maybe not redo Westside for the 4th(it's 4th right, I've lost track) time and get this kind of focus to actually progress up the content chain beyond Westside(with the exception of Queen City...which I've heard many say is broken atm but it was new content added for the 20s). Honestly, it's been so long since the change that reverting the Canada and Desert Crisis Zones back to LvL 6 would likely seem like new starting content for many players. I mean, 3 choices is better than one.
Although, once upon a time they did mention the 1st lair in the game(levelwise) would be in Westside and would be focused on The Death Dragon...that could be neat(especially if it's ALL LvL X with functional difficulty sliders and some actual rewards).
In reality, the revamping of the tutorial is a step zero because it's a prequel to the actual game(it's a tutorial after all) so this, IMO, makes the real questions become can "New" Old Cryptic go beyond this to the higher steps throughout the game....and will they?
I ran through it this morning. It's got a lot of little bugs that need fixing (voice overs drowning each other out, missing perks that I assume were just left out for testing, etc), but overall I approve of many of the little tweaks. Shortening some of the distances between things, cutting out two of the four beacons after Black Talon (that always seems like such a slog to me) and blocking off some of the streets to direct you better. The framing sequence is "eh". It's an intro I suppose. I neither love nor hate it.
Oh, and the two blocking mention changes work for me. The voice over really made the first stand out and the red-lettered "IMPORTANT!" on the Black Talon instructions is a nice idea.
This is a really encouraging sign to me. Games only revamp their tutorials when they are seeing a lot of new players, or are about to do some kind of advertising and expect new players afterwards. So either way, this is great news.
That's kind of what I've been thinking, too. And I remember the big changes at CoX with Paragon Studios revamp kind of started this way, too, and lots of good stuff came after that.
Okey so i have just finished the revamped tutorial and a few issues and good points sprung into mind upon finishing.
- First at the start (without talking to anyone) it seems like you the character are just dumped straight into the "Academy" which is a large white box room (which I had to assume was basicly the power house) with no explanation of why you are there, to me for first time players this could seem a bit boring or uneventful, your character is supposed to be a super hero fighting evil and bringing justice etc, but you start the game in a big not very eye pleasing room.
I have thought of a few things that could improve this issue
-The room you start in could look more like a classical elite sort of college (wooden floors, book shelves, perhaps a fire place, a rug, a few more different students dotted around, so even without being told a new player could instantly tell they are in some form of school.
- At the start of spawning opposed to you having to go around talking to loads of people to find out why you are there in the first place there could be a very short cut scene, just welcoming the player to the academy (to the game) and thanking the for taking part in the test.
- Second The general qularr invasion now shortened is far more enjoyable, than the old argues task tutorial of running back and forth (with no travel power) and each thing that a player could be confused about is clearly explained for them. and the cut scene at the end made me feel accomplished at doing something.
- Third and last point after the tutorial is done, you are basicly just dumped straight into the power house and then go and start the purple gang quests, In my opinion for a new player they have just gone from fighting off an alien invasion to wrapping bad guys on the knuckles, for hassling a shop owner, this seems quite a big move in the wrong direction, as an alpha tester form champions years ago when it first was being made I remember when you had a choice to go to the Canadian crisis or desert one, and having that choice felt amazing and now those two crisis are almost invisible because you don't even get an alert or anything telling the player that they can do them at level 15, for new players they are missing out on a big and fun bit of content, you should bring back those crisis to do after the tutorial, you could make them maybe another test for the academy.
In an overall review the revamped tutorial is a very good idea but just need polishing and editing to make it eye catching and very enjoyable for new players, and its nice to see that the game is still going well and getting new updates every so often, i'm amazed on how its changed from when it started, alpha testing this game years ago was what put me on my career path in the games industry, and I am now coming up to my third year at university studying games design and I would love to get some experience within the industry, so if there was anything I could do to help please let me know.
You're supposed to talk to Rowan straight off. She explains why you're there (Defender recommended you to help test the new simulation).
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I found the "info" progression to be just fine and not counter intuitive at all. After all, they TELL you "talk to her!" and she's got the nigh-universal indicator over her head.
- Third and last point after the tutorial is done, you are basicly just dumped straight into the power house and then go and start the purple gang quests, In my opinion for a new player they have just gone from fighting off an alien invasion to wrapping bad guys on the knuckles, for hassling a shop owner, this seems quite a big move in the wrong direction, as an alpha tester form champions years ago when it first was being made I remember when you had a choice to go to the Canadian crisis or desert one, and having that choice felt amazing and now those two crisis are almost invisible because you don't even get an alert or anything telling the player that they can do them at level 15, for new players they are missing out on a big and fun bit of content, you should bring back those crisis to do after the tutorial, you could make them maybe another test for the academy.
The problem with allowing people into a Crisis early is that they'd be too high a level for the Westside missions... so the Crisis would either need to cover levels 6-15 or there'd need to be some significant work done on the continuity of the Kevin Poe/Purple Reign arc.
A more elegant solution would be to rework the post-tutorial progression so that the new player doesn't get sent directly from Defender in Ren Cen to Kodiak in Westside. Maybe they could be sent from Defender to the new Academy (opportunity to give a little more experience in navigating the map, perhaps with a few low level goons along the way) and from there to pick up the Kodiak missions. The Westside story arc contains quite a few references to the MCPD being too stretched as a result of the "Recent Qularr Invasion".... they could be changed to something as simple as "being too big for the MCPD to handle", implying that they need the help of the player hero instead.
- Third and last point after the tutorial is done, you are basicly just dumped straight into the power house and then go and start the purple gang quests, In my opinion for a new player they have just gone from fighting off an alien invasion to wrapping bad guys on the knuckles, for hassling a shop owner, this seems quite a big move in the wrong direction, as an alpha tester form champions years ago when it first was being made I remember when you had a choice to go to the Canadian crisis or desert one, and having that choice felt amazing and now those two crisis are almost invisible because you don't even get an alert or anything telling the player that they can do them at level 15, for new players they are missing out on a big and fun bit of content, you should bring back those crisis to do after the tutorial, you could make them maybe another test for the academy.
The problem with allowing people into a Crisis early is that they'd be too high a level for the Westside missions... so the Crisis would either need to cover levels 6-15 or there'd need to be some significant work done on the continuity of the Kevin Poe/Purple Reign arc.
A more elegant solution would be to rework the post-tutorial progression so that the new player doesn't get sent directly from Defender in Ren Cen to Kodiak in Westside. Maybe they could be sent from Defender to the new Academy (opportunity to give a little more experience in navigating the map, perhaps with a few low level goons along the way) and from there to pick up the Kodiak missions. The Westside story arc contains quite a few references to the MCPD being too stretched as a result of the "Recent Qularr Invasion".... they could be changed to something as simple as "being too big for the MCPD to handle", implying that they need the help of the player hero instead.
i can see what you mean agreed, having maybe having a few beginner missions at the academy, almost like tutorial missions, introducing you to all the gangs perhapse and thre back story?, it could be another arc, so you don't allays have to do the west side arc, as after 5 time playing it its bit dull, more variety like the crisis missions would be lovely for a future update
The new one is okay. I still liked the old blocking station they used to have in the old, old tutorial. I don't believe there is any mention of the blue, green, yellow pills that drop or the ability to pick up stuff and throw it. I've been playing this game on and off since beta so it's difficult to look at it from a new player standpoint. The new one seems a little disjointed only because there is no mention of any academy after the tutorial.
The problem with sending low lever characters to Canada or the Desert is that there are generally less than 200 people in Millenium City at peak hours, so you take 35 of those send them to the Desert, 35 more and send them to Canada and now your MC zone is down to less than 130 people, at peak hours instead of being that way starting around 10 PM or so.
Example. 746AM on a Sunday (345pm in England, 446Pm in Germany), 143 players in Ren Cen.
96 players level 6 to 13. Putting them in Canada or the Desert leaves 47 people in Millennium City.
The problem with sending low lever characters to Canada or the Desert is that there are generally less than 200 people in Millenium City at peak hours, so you take 35 of those send them to the Desert, 35 more and send them to Canada and now your MC zone is down to less than 130 people, at peak hours instead of being that way starting around 10 PM or so.
Example. 746AM on a Sunday (345pm in England, 446Pm in Germany), 143 players in Ren Cen.
96 players level 6 to 13. Putting them in Canada or the Desert leaves 47 people in Millennium City.
Thats not a problem, CO is 96% it's content a single player game anyway.
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
And playing by myself since Aug 2009 Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
The problem with sending low lever characters to Canada or the Desert is that there are generally less than 200 people in Millenium City at peak hours, so you take 35 of those send them to the Desert, 35 more and send them to Canada and now your MC zone is down to less than 130 people, at peak hours instead of being that way starting around 10 PM or so.
Example. 746AM on a Sunday (345pm in England, 446Pm in Germany), 143 players in Ren Cen.
96 players level 6 to 13. Putting them in Canada or the Desert leaves 47 people in Millennium City.
First at the start (without talking to anyone) it seems like you the character are just dumped straight into the "Academy" which is a large white box room (which I had to assume was basicly the power house) with no explanation of why you are there, to me for first time players this could seem a bit boring or uneventful, your character is supposed to be a super hero fighting evil and bringing justice etc, but you start the game in a big not very eye pleasing room.
I have thought of a few things that could improve this issue
-The room you start in could look more like a classical elite sort of college (wooden floors, book shelves, perhaps a fire place, a rug, a few more different students dotted around, so even without being told a new player could instantly tell they are in some form of school.
- At the start of spawning opposed to you having to go around talking to loads of people to find out why you are there in the first place there could be a very short cut scene, just welcoming the player to the academy (to the game) and thanking the for taking part in the test.
...
- Third and last point after the tutorial is done, you are basicly just dumped straight into the power house and then go and start the purple gang quests, In my opinion for a new player they have just gone from fighting off an alien invasion to wrapping bad guys on the knuckles, for hassling a shop owner, this seems quite a big move in the wrong direction, as an alpha tester form champions years ago when it first was being made I remember when you had a choice to go to the Canadian crisis or desert one, and having that choice felt amazing and now those two crisis are almost invisible because you don't even get an alert or anything telling the player that they can do them at level 15, for new players they are missing out on a big and fun bit of content, you should bring back those crisis to do after the tutorial, you could make them maybe another test for the academy.
This is what was tickling the back of my brain when I first ran it Friday night, but I couldn't pin it down. The framing story in Ravenswood has no real depth behind it, especially at the beginning. Maybe it just needs a cutscene where you walk in the door of one of the Ravenswood-MC buildings, then you get your "WASD, F to interact" lesson in what appears to be a normal school hallway. It seems thematically logical to me. Then you're invited to enter the "Faculty Lounge". If you want to get ambitious, use in-game options to give players the existing "visiting hero" track or a "graduate/returning alum" track, for added thematic flavor.
I'd say keep the exit as it is though, since it flows geographically: Ravenswood's don't-call-it-a-danger-room is an extension of the existing Powerhouse under RenCen, right? So start that cutscene with an establishing shot of Ravenswood-MC in the shadow of RenCen's towers, outside the main ring, and players should immediately see the link when they exit the Powerhouse inside the main ring.
The problem with sending low lever characters to Canada or the Desert is that there are generally less than 200 people in Millenium City at peak hours, so you take 35 of those send them to the Desert, 35 more and send them to Canada and now your MC zone is down to less than 130 people, at peak hours instead of being that way starting around 10 PM or so.
Example. 746AM on a Sunday (345pm in England, 446Pm in Germany), 143 players in Ren Cen.
96 players level 6 to 13. Putting them in Canada or the Desert leaves 47 people in Millennium City.
If all you have is a cherry-picked off-peak sample of dubious statistical value hammer, everything looks like a nail, eh?
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Is there any ETA on when this goes live? I was thinking about creating a new character, but will probably just wait to be able to play the new tutorial.
I like the new idea for the tutorial. There are some issues that the dev team is aware of (VO work running into each other at points for example) but I like how it does these things:
1. All that voice over work!!
2. You are there to "test" the simulation - not every hero is having his bio god modded into being a raven academy student.
3. It gives the world of CO a bit of feeling of "growth" since the qularr invasion we've all played through years ago is now canonically something that happened "years" in the past.
4. It doesn't get "rid" of the Qularr invasion. It does streamline it though. The tutorial is much more helpful now.
5. All that voice over work!!
I will add this: while I *do* think them revamping the tutorial is a good sign, business wise, I actually really like the old/current tutorial. A good old alien invasion is just fun, and makes perfect sense for a superhero game. But I haven't played the new tutorial, so I'm not sure how it compares, story-wise.
well for one thing, if they go to Canada, they won't see what I did when I started a character on my third acct.
New players come out of Powerhouse, group of level 40's nearby complaining.
go to Kodiak, they are still complaining, do some missions.
Some new players stop to talk about it in local. Then vanish.
you can imagine them speaking to their friends after.
"so what's that new game like?"
" everyone playing it is complaining about it."
" On the forums"
" no in the game, they were complaining about everything. nothing gets done, nothing gets fixed, nobody listens to the players."
" eww, no way am I playing that game."
check out the STEAM reviews, the first one on the list is along complaint starting from early in the game.
people look at the game on STEAM, read a few reveiws and change their mind.
well for one thing, if they go to Canada, they won't see what I did when I started a character on my third acct.
New players come out of Powerhouse, group of level 40's nearby complaining.
go to Kodiak, they are still complaining, do some missions.
Some new players stop to talk about it in local. Then vanish.
you can imagine them speaking to their friends after.
"so what's that new game like?"
" everyone playing it is complaining about it."
" On the forums"
" no in the game, they were complaining about everything. nothing gets done, nothing gets fixed, nobody listens to the players."
" eww, no way am I playing that game."
check out the STEAM reviews, the first one on the list is along complaint starting from early in the game.
people look at the game on STEAM, read a few reveiws and change their mind.
Now now, we had a few X-CoXers show up this morning. They asked questions, they got answers, and they seemed happier for the exchange(and the vets there seemed happy enough to help out). It's not always bad. Now if you want to avoid the bad....you disable Zonechat(which I would not change since it can be done as an option). Zonechat is where XXXXXX and XXXXXXXX usually lurk to spew their negative venom.
BTW, we helped those nice X-CoXers out with information while a few ALL CAPS BITTER COXERS were in zonechat screaming about the end of times for this game. :cool:
Next, as has been previously mentioned, your "math" can easily be shot down and is, at best, an off kilter guestimation. Even having said that, however, the game is a game and there are other zones for a reason. The game itself, IMO, should be designed to be played. Also, we're talking about the LvL 6 Crisis Zones here...it's not like they're 20 person raid content. At worst, IMO, you might need to find another person to help you duo Ferd, Raksasha, and/or Menton. It's not like Frosticus is taking a vacation in Canada and hiding behind a tree waiting on lowbies. The suggestion for reverting the Canada/Desert Crisis Zones back to 6 is about regaining the ability for a new toon(newb or vet) to exit the tutorial(or just enter the game after skipping it) and have THREE options available to them instead of one. This also presents the old ability, for players who were struggling or perk junkies, to run all three of them and gain a few extra levels to help them along on their way.
I found the revamped tutorial to be underwhelming, its just the old tutorial with a framing device and less side quests
Kind of on this track myselv. New voice acting is a nice touch, other that that a neutral change.
I will miss saving the "hidden" quests though
Problems:
Biggest:
Voice Acting and Socrates can overlap. Socrates voice/instructions may need NPC chat (though I'm not sure a new user would see that). Or Subs, or some reason to draw the users eyes up to that area with all the 'other stuff' in front of them. Perhaps a "help storage" system to review old instructions and a back/forward key?
Small:
Socrates "pick up item" instruction should key to item drop, mine hit before.
Socrates "block" instruction should repeat at Black Talon. Came up in a useful pre-fight, but random place for me.
Sapphire seemed very preoccupied, even once she landed it took a while to talk to her for the perk. Also Witchcraft took 3x to trigger the perk (must *click* good bye bug? I was using keyboard forward)
Will see what else happens with the Ravenswood thing later(?)
This is what was tickling the back of my brain when I first ran it Friday night, but I couldn't pin it down. The framing story in Ravenswood has no real depth behind it, especially at the beginning. Maybe it just needs a cutscene where you walk in the door of one of the Ravenswood-MC buildings, then you get your "WASD, F to interact" lesson in what appears to be a normal school hallway. It seems thematically logical to me. Then you're invited to enter the "Faculty Lounge". If you want to get ambitious, use in-game options to give players the existing "visiting hero" track or a "graduate/returning alum" track, for added thematic flavor.
I'd say keep the exit as it is though, since it flows geographically: Ravenswood's don't-call-it-a-danger-room is an extension of the existing Powerhouse under RenCen, right? So start that cutscene with an establishing shot of Ravenswood-MC in the shadow of RenCen's towers, outside the main ring, and players should immediately see the link when they exit the Powerhouse inside the main ring.
I like every single bit of that. More interesting but still very practical.
I will add this: while I *do* think them revamping the tutorial is a good sign, business wise, I actually really like the old/current tutorial. A good old alien invasion is just fun, and makes perfect sense for a superhero game. But I haven't played the new tutorial, so I'm not sure how it compares, story-wise.
Storyline's the same, except there's a framing sequence that's telling you you're helping them test a simulator. Once you're in, it's the same tutorial story-wise, with a few minor tweaks (repositioning of some things closer so you don't have to run as far mostly).
Hey, he has a hard enough time pretending his statistics are meaningful without having to account for people in other zones!
Because they aren't there in any quantity that is going to make for a fun online game experience and I don't have time to take screenshots of all the empty zones.
After ten or so 8 player Vibora Bay screenshots I got bored.
Lets see 10pm server time on a Sunday night, 0 players in Canada Crisis, 3 players in Southwest Desert Crisis, 16 players in Canada, 5 players in Monster Island, 4 players in Southwest Desert, 1 player in Vibora Bay. 8 Players in Lemurian Invasion. 24 Players in an MC alert. 1 Player in the tutorial.
Because they aren't there in any quantity that is going to make for a fun online game experience and I don't have time to take screenshots of all the empty zones.
After ten or so 8 player Vibora Bay screenshots I got bored.
Lets see 10pm server time on a Sunday night, 0 players in Canada Crisis, 3 players in Southwest Desert Crisis, 16 players in Canada, 5 players in Monster Island, 4 players in Southwest Desert, 1 player in Vibora Bay. 8 Players in Lemurian Invasion. 24 Players in an MC alert. 1 Player in the tutorial.
147 In Millenium City.
Cool. What was the population about, oh, three hours earlier? 'Cause if you're going by server time, that's Pacific, and a lot of people have work or school on Mondays and aren't going to be up playing an MMO at 10pm (11 Mountain, midnight Central, 1am Eastern).
I begin to see why you usually don't say what hours you're cherrypicking your "data" from.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Cool. What was the population about, oh, three hours earlier? 'Cause if you're going by server time, that's Pacific, and a lot of people have work or school on Mondays and aren't going to be up playing an MMO at 10pm (11 Mountain, midnight Central, 1am Eastern).
Ah, but you were playing at that hour Jonsills, so don't you want there to be alot of players playing when you play? Probably not because you are a curmudgeon.
Thundrax was playing at that hour, Smackwell was ...maybe afk but logged in. That's four people from the forums on, and they represent what 1% of the game population. So apparently some people do play at 10PM server time. There's a whole wide world of people that have access to the internet and don't have school or work getting in the way. It's three hours later now, and there are 3000 Steam players in the other super hero game and 101 players in Ren Cen, so your comment about timing being the source of low player population isn't good enough manure to grow grass in.
You can easily use the chart and see that the Steam population was only 100 players higher at 8PM server time than it is at 11:50PM server time. Steam Reports 154 players online and the game reports 114 of players in Ren Cen.
I begin to see why you usually don't say what hours you're cherrypicking your "data" from.
At least two years we've been having this discussion and not a single one of you has a single bit of data to back up anything you say. I dare you to show me proof of 300 players in Ren Cen within the next 30 days, oh hell I'll give you 365 days.
At least two years we've been having this discussion and not a single one of you has a single bit of data to back up anything you say. I dare you to show me proof of 300 players in Ren Cen within the next 30 days, oh hell I'll give you 365 days.
Yes, you keep showing us population numbers and what not. What is the purpose?
We all know that CO has a small number of truly dedicated players, and many people come and go all the time...
Yes, this game is old and getting older, not as many people play it as the newer shinier games.
So what is your point exactly?
What is your goal here?
One of these days, doom-sayers will be right. It may take years, but by golly, they'll let us know "I told you so" all the same.
"The End" doesn't matter, what matters is how the game feels today and tomorrow while it's still around. You and your type are in denial and refuse to see.
Most people don't give a damn about the player pop because they're busy having fun in the game.
No most people have already tried and quit the game, over two million of them.
People do care about the population, I met a total stranger at the jail yesterday, the first person at the jail I've seen in four days, and so I teamed him and we spent most of our time chatting about the game, because he was new and this is what he said.
[22:23] [Team]E@F: So, is CO going to shutdown in the near future? Doesn't seem that active.
He came from Neverwinter, he got to level 17 and the impression he got was that the game was shutting down soon because the population is dismal. That's just one random person.
See what I mean, you blind fools always focus on the ultimate end, the empty cup, instead of paying attention to the leaks and the current water supply.
Game ain't dead and I've played for years, so it doesn't matter if the experience of new players sucks. is the general attitude of the embedded player base , which results in new player comments like this:
i cant get anybody in the game to help me because many players are amusing about my problems in game, so i am thinking about to quit even i do have spent some hundreds of euros at the game
Spent money, received terrible online experience, yeah, he won't be back to spend again.
Really anyone with a ten person following twitter account should not be commenting about not caring about player population, obviously from your videos and twitter posts, you are perfectly content talking to yourself for hours.
So what is your point exactly?
What is your goal here?
Depends on the situation.
Here we are talking about dividing an already bottom of the barrel player population into three other zones, possibly even more since I think Canada Crisis and Desert only fit 30 players.
So the experience all players will regularly get is "there are not many players" even more so after this proposed change.
Then when you have a low player population like it is right now with 101 people in Ren Cen, things like this sit in the zone chat for five minutes like they have been sitting for five minues.
[2:08] [Zone] Things break especially when the development team has no idea what they're doing. You can think a poor screening process and the lack of any documentation on part of the original team for it.
Because there are not enough players chatting to make it go away.
That's really selling the game.
In other instances mentioning population has a different purpose, context is the key.
Like during Questionite two weeks, the population dropped, that's a pretty clear sign that the Q grind is unattractive.
Ello, Cross here again. Still not on Steam(for CO). Don't have a single Twitter follower. Maybe have 2-3 followers on Facebook(don't bother to look and one is my wife). Same for Youtube. DO, however, happen to play CO...and I mean PLAY. I do run into newbies. They do ask questions. I, and others since this is not super rare in my experiences,(it's even listed in the post above mine as happening) do answer questions and try to help out. Actually, here's my current night...
-Daily: Smash
-Unity Hot Spots
-Helped a newbie with tailor questions.
-Unity 2(BTW, Foxbat Special is now awarding the AFs correctly, or it did for me)
-Had multiple conversations with ingame friends.
-Daily: Smash(Round 2)
So yeah, we play. I'm not entirely certain what the point of these conversations is but it sounds kinda Chicken Little. Sure, the sky will eventually fall because that's what skies do. I'm not entirely certain what the point of all this discussion is but the actual point of the game is to play it and have fun. I mean, that's what I shell out the cash to accomplish. Ultimately, pointing out the obvious, regardless of the "math", doesn't really accomplish anything unless you're attempting to spread your gloom. Calling people out on stuff as dumb as social media....that accomplished even less.
Fun =/= Denial
Fun = Fun
Try having some FUN.
The majority burden of the new player experience, which is important and I have recently covered here and there, ultimately falls upon THE GAME. Tell me the last time you ran into someone who said,"This game sucks and is no fun but these people are super nice...so I'll stay and open my wallet for this horrible game." Game comes 1st....zonechat issues come later. Until that 1st bit happens....see previous points on FUN.:cool:
Edit(stuff happened while I typed): So it is your belief that turning the LvL 15 Crisis Zones into LvL 6, which would actually help shield new players from zonechat(which I believe they can't even use if they're froobs for X time anyways) would somehow empower the zonechat doomsayers and people who can look at instance numbers(which is not a default option for the new players...or new toons for that matter) and therefore adding more choices at a lower level would be detrimental to the overall game?
By contrast are you then also saying that herding these new players into Westside as their only option where they will see zonechat(again, default option) pretty much until they're 15+(depending on how long they remain in MC because the chains do progress there without the actual need to go to the Desert/Canada Crisis Zones) will somehow be a good thing?
I mean, by your post zonechat doomies are a problem. So how is exposing newbies to this even more a positive thing? If anything, by my purely observational without "math" experiences, newbies tend to make a toon, try it out some, make another toon(which would follow the exact same mission paths with no deviation in the current system), and then either decide on one of those two toons, make others(deleting one of the previous ones), and ultimately continue to play or quit. So, I do not see how fewer options and more zonechat actually improves that experience. <shrugs>
Comments
Do you not understand when someone says it feels, does not make it so?
It is a feeling because of the settings and emphasis on the academy taking you through the simulation.
This is a good point. The current room being used as the introduction to the game is ugly as sin.
They should use the ever unused Powerhouse Arena...such waste of dev time (subscription fees) and such a nice place.
Everything can line up right over here,
The exit to the main Lobby of the Powerhouse can be level gated or mission locked, or the simulation can glitch and drop the character in a random game instance, haha! Just think of the possibilities...
They might need to change the "Arena" language to "Simulation" or "Test" or something like that.
They don't use it enough to make a difference compared to the value it could be in making the game not look horrible. I've never once seen it in use, ever, not a single time I've gone in there. 10:30AM server time on a Saturday, player population is the highest its been all week, nobody in the Arena but me wasting double XP.
Meanwhile there is 18 people in the tutorial who could have seen a cool map at the start of the game, instead of waiting to play for thirty minutes before running into to find the place empty and running out like that little level 6 I just bumped into when I checked for players in the Arena.
1) Replace "Z" with "F" for interacting with the environment but still showing "Z" in the tool tips
2) Giving instructions after 2-3 times of already doing something (Picking up loot, Equipping an item)
3) Waiting till the very end to learn about blocking
A) Outclassing "THE CHAMPIONS" Not being under powered, not being equal.
Five taps and I break out of BalckTalon's hold. Defender is out for the rest of the fight...
C) Ravenwood Only having one NPC for interaction. (Post Simulation) SUGGESTION: Move the Arena from PH to Ravenwood. And have a bunch of student NPC's sitting down and making comments during the fight. (Possible place for some Role Play as guest instructors)
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Either way, it's in time for the new character I plan to re-roll soon. For some reason, I always go through the tutorial. I can't help it, it's like an addiction.
Wait, does this mean there will be children in the game now? (Ones that aren't hugging demons.)
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
I'm also glad to report that as you stand around in RenCen, the NPCs that come running up to you no longer thank you for saving the city from the Qularr. Instead, they ask if you've run that new simulation of the Invasion in the Powerhouse, and how close it is to the real thing; or whether you've talked to PLATO, and if she's related to SOCRATES; or that they've heard you talked to Rowan, and didn't she used to be a hero a while back?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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That's why most of my suggestions box posts are mostly based around the tutorial. Because it's the first thing people see when they start playing the game proper.
Might hop onto the PTS and check it out tonight. Good to see they're adding a fresh lick of paint to the old tutorial, give it some zazzle for the new players.
Or....maybe not redo Westside for the 4th(it's 4th right, I've lost track) time and get this kind of focus to actually progress up the content chain beyond Westside(with the exception of Queen City...which I've heard many say is broken atm but it was new content added for the 20s). Honestly, it's been so long since the change that reverting the Canada and Desert Crisis Zones back to LvL 6 would likely seem like new starting content for many players. I mean, 3 choices is better than one.
Although, once upon a time they did mention the 1st lair in the game(levelwise) would be in Westside and would be focused on The Death Dragon...that could be neat(especially if it's ALL LvL X with functional difficulty sliders and some actual rewards).
In reality, the revamping of the tutorial is a step zero because it's a prequel to the actual game(it's a tutorial after all) so this, IMO, makes the real questions become can "New" Old Cryptic go beyond this to the higher steps throughout the game....and will they?
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Oh, and the two blocking mention changes work for me. The voice over really made the first stand out and the red-lettered "IMPORTANT!" on the Black Talon instructions is a nice idea.
edit: Welp looks like we can't a shame, thier is bound to be some map somewhere you could just let us have as a small rp instance.
That's kind of what I've been thinking, too. And I remember the big changes at CoX with Paragon Studios revamp kind of started this way, too, and lots of good stuff came after that.
At present on test, the doors don't work. I have no idea if that's just for now, though.
- First at the start (without talking to anyone) it seems like you the character are just dumped straight into the "Academy" which is a large white box room (which I had to assume was basicly the power house) with no explanation of why you are there, to me for first time players this could seem a bit boring or uneventful, your character is supposed to be a super hero fighting evil and bringing justice etc, but you start the game in a big not very eye pleasing room.
I have thought of a few things that could improve this issue
-The room you start in could look more like a classical elite sort of college (wooden floors, book shelves, perhaps a fire place, a rug, a few more different students dotted around, so even without being told a new player could instantly tell they are in some form of school.
- At the start of spawning opposed to you having to go around talking to loads of people to find out why you are there in the first place there could be a very short cut scene, just welcoming the player to the academy (to the game) and thanking the for taking part in the test.
- Second The general qularr invasion now shortened is far more enjoyable, than the old argues task tutorial of running back and forth (with no travel power) and each thing that a player could be confused about is clearly explained for them. and the cut scene at the end made me feel accomplished at doing something.
- Third and last point after the tutorial is done, you are basicly just dumped straight into the power house and then go and start the purple gang quests, In my opinion for a new player they have just gone from fighting off an alien invasion to wrapping bad guys on the knuckles, for hassling a shop owner, this seems quite a big move in the wrong direction, as an alpha tester form champions years ago when it first was being made I remember when you had a choice to go to the Canadian crisis or desert one, and having that choice felt amazing and now those two crisis are almost invisible because you don't even get an alert or anything telling the player that they can do them at level 15, for new players they are missing out on a big and fun bit of content, you should bring back those crisis to do after the tutorial, you could make them maybe another test for the academy.
In an overall review the revamped tutorial is a very good idea but just need polishing and editing to make it eye catching and very enjoyable for new players, and its nice to see that the game is still going well and getting new updates every so often, i'm amazed on how its changed from when it started, alpha testing this game years ago was what put me on my career path in the games industry, and I am now coming up to my third year at university studying games design and I would love to get some experience within the industry, so if there was anything I could do to help please let me know.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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The problem with allowing people into a Crisis early is that they'd be too high a level for the Westside missions... so the Crisis would either need to cover levels 6-15 or there'd need to be some significant work done on the continuity of the Kevin Poe/Purple Reign arc.
A more elegant solution would be to rework the post-tutorial progression so that the new player doesn't get sent directly from Defender in Ren Cen to Kodiak in Westside. Maybe they could be sent from Defender to the new Academy (opportunity to give a little more experience in navigating the map, perhaps with a few low level goons along the way) and from there to pick up the Kodiak missions. The Westside story arc contains quite a few references to the MCPD being too stretched as a result of the "Recent Qularr Invasion".... they could be changed to something as simple as "being too big for the MCPD to handle", implying that they need the help of the player hero instead.
i can see what you mean agreed, having maybe having a few beginner missions at the academy, almost like tutorial missions, introducing you to all the gangs perhapse and thre back story?, it could be another arc, so you don't allays have to do the west side arc, as after 5 time playing it its bit dull, more variety like the crisis missions would be lovely for a future update
Example. 746AM on a Sunday (345pm in England, 446Pm in Germany), 143 players in Ren Cen.
96 players level 6 to 13. Putting them in Canada or the Desert leaves 47 people in Millennium City.
Thats not a problem, CO is 96% it's content a single player game anyway.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
And?
This game is not the single zone only.
That's not a problem.
This is what was tickling the back of my brain when I first ran it Friday night, but I couldn't pin it down. The framing story in Ravenswood has no real depth behind it, especially at the beginning. Maybe it just needs a cutscene where you walk in the door of one of the Ravenswood-MC buildings, then you get your "WASD, F to interact" lesson in what appears to be a normal school hallway. It seems thematically logical to me. Then you're invited to enter the "Faculty Lounge".
I'd say keep the exit as it is though, since it flows geographically: Ravenswood's don't-call-it-a-danger-room is an extension of the existing Powerhouse under RenCen, right? So start that cutscene with an establishing shot of Ravenswood-MC in the shadow of RenCen's towers, outside the main ring, and players should immediately see the link when they exit the Powerhouse inside the main ring.
If all you have is a cherry-picked off-peak sample of dubious statistical value hammer, everything looks like a nail, eh?
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
1. All that voice over work!!
2. You are there to "test" the simulation - not every hero is having his bio god modded into being a raven academy student.
3. It gives the world of CO a bit of feeling of "growth" since the qularr invasion we've all played through years ago is now canonically something that happened "years" in the past.
4. It doesn't get "rid" of the Qularr invasion. It does streamline it though. The tutorial is much more helpful now.
5. All that voice over work!!
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
New players come out of Powerhouse, group of level 40's nearby complaining.
go to Kodiak, they are still complaining, do some missions.
Some new players stop to talk about it in local. Then vanish.
you can imagine them speaking to their friends after.
"so what's that new game like?"
" everyone playing it is complaining about it."
" On the forums"
" no in the game, they were complaining about everything. nothing gets done, nothing gets fixed, nobody listens to the players."
" eww, no way am I playing that game."
check out the STEAM reviews, the first one on the list is along complaint starting from early in the game.
people look at the game on STEAM, read a few reveiws and change their mind.
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Now now, we had a few X-CoXers show up this morning. They asked questions, they got answers, and they seemed happier for the exchange(and the vets there seemed happy enough to help out). It's not always bad. Now if you want to avoid the bad....you disable Zonechat(which I would not change since it can be done as an option). Zonechat is where XXXXXX and XXXXXXXX usually lurk to spew their negative venom.
BTW, we helped those nice X-CoXers out with information while a few ALL CAPS BITTER COXERS were in zonechat screaming about the end of times for this game. :cool:
____________________________________________________________________
Next, as has been previously mentioned, your "math" can easily be shot down and is, at best, an off kilter guestimation. Even having said that, however, the game is a game and there are other zones for a reason. The game itself, IMO, should be designed to be played. Also, we're talking about the LvL 6 Crisis Zones here...it's not like they're 20 person raid content. At worst, IMO, you might need to find another person to help you duo Ferd, Raksasha, and/or Menton. It's not like Frosticus is taking a vacation in Canada and hiding behind a tree waiting on lowbies. The suggestion for reverting the Canada/Desert Crisis Zones back to 6 is about regaining the ability for a new toon(newb or vet) to exit the tutorial(or just enter the game after skipping it) and have THREE options available to them instead of one. This also presents the old ability, for players who were struggling or perk junkies, to run all three of them and gain a few extra levels to help them along on their way.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Kind of on this track myselv. New voice acting is a nice touch, other that that a neutral change.
I will miss saving the "hidden" quests though
Problems:
Biggest:
Voice Acting and Socrates can overlap. Socrates voice/instructions may need NPC chat (though I'm not sure a new user would see that). Or Subs, or some reason to draw the users eyes up to that area with all the 'other stuff' in front of them. Perhaps a "help storage" system to review old instructions and a back/forward key?
Small:
Socrates "pick up item" instruction should key to item drop, mine hit before.
Socrates "block" instruction should repeat at Black Talon. Came up in a useful pre-fight, but random place for me.
Sapphire seemed very preoccupied, even once she landed it took a while to talk to her for the perk. Also Witchcraft took 3x to trigger the perk (must *click* good bye bug? I was using keyboard forward)
Will see what else happens with the Ravenswood thing later(?)
Hey, he has a hard enough time pretending his statistics are meaningful without having to account for people in other zones!
I like every single bit of that. More interesting but still very practical.
Storyline's the same, except there's a framing sequence that's telling you you're helping them test a simulator. Once you're in, it's the same tutorial story-wise, with a few minor tweaks (repositioning of some things closer so you don't have to run as far mostly).
Because they aren't there in any quantity that is going to make for a fun online game experience and I don't have time to take screenshots of all the empty zones.
After ten or so 8 player Vibora Bay screenshots I got bored.
Lets see 10pm server time on a Sunday night, 0 players in Canada Crisis, 3 players in Southwest Desert Crisis, 16 players in Canada, 5 players in Monster Island, 4 players in Southwest Desert, 1 player in Vibora Bay. 8 Players in Lemurian Invasion. 24 Players in an MC alert. 1 Player in the tutorial.
147 In Millenium City.
I begin to see why you usually don't say what hours you're cherrypicking your "data" from.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Ah, but you were playing at that hour Jonsills, so don't you want there to be alot of players playing when you play? Probably not because you are a curmudgeon.
Thundrax was playing at that hour, Smackwell was ...maybe afk but logged in. That's four people from the forums on, and they represent what 1% of the game population. So apparently some people do play at 10PM server time. There's a whole wide world of people that have access to the internet and don't have school or work getting in the way. It's three hours later now, and there are 3000 Steam players in the other super hero game and 101 players in Ren Cen, so your comment about timing being the source of low player population isn't good enough manure to grow grass in.
You can easily use the chart and see that the Steam population was only 100 players higher at 8PM server time than it is at 11:50PM server time. Steam Reports 154 players online and the game reports 114 of players in Ren Cen.
At least two years we've been having this discussion and not a single one of you has a single bit of data to back up anything you say. I dare you to show me proof of 300 players in Ren Cen within the next 30 days, oh hell I'll give you 365 days.
Most people don't give a damn about the player pop because they're busy having fun in the game. MMOs shut down. And yet life goes on.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Yes, you keep showing us population numbers and what not. What is the purpose?
We all know that CO has a small number of truly dedicated players, and many people come and go all the time...
Yes, this game is old and getting older, not as many people play it as the newer shinier games.
So what is your point exactly?
What is your goal here?
No most people have already tried and quit the game, over two million of them.
People do care about the population, I met a total stranger at the jail yesterday, the first person at the jail I've seen in four days, and so I teamed him and we spent most of our time chatting about the game, because he was new and this is what he said.
He came from Neverwinter, he got to level 17 and the impression he got was that the game was shutting down soon because the population is dismal. That's just one random person.
See what I mean, you blind fools always focus on the ultimate end, the empty cup, instead of paying attention to the leaks and the current water supply.
Game ain't dead and I've played for years, so it doesn't matter if the experience of new players sucks. is the general attitude of the embedded player base , which results in new player comments like this:
Spent money, received terrible online experience, yeah, he won't be back to spend again.
Really anyone with a ten person following twitter account should not be commenting about not caring about player population, obviously from your videos and twitter posts, you are perfectly content talking to yourself for hours.
Depends on the situation.
Here we are talking about dividing an already bottom of the barrel player population into three other zones, possibly even more since I think Canada Crisis and Desert only fit 30 players.
So the experience all players will regularly get is "there are not many players" even more so after this proposed change.
Then when you have a low player population like it is right now with 101 people in Ren Cen, things like this sit in the zone chat for five minutes like they have been sitting for five minues.
Because there are not enough players chatting to make it go away.
That's really selling the game.
In other instances mentioning population has a different purpose, context is the key.
Like during Questionite two weeks, the population dropped, that's a pretty clear sign that the Q grind is unattractive.
-Daily: Smash
-Unity Hot Spots
-Helped a newbie with tailor questions.
-Unity 2(BTW, Foxbat Special is now awarding the AFs correctly, or it did for me)
-Had multiple conversations with ingame friends.
-Daily: Smash(Round 2)
So yeah, we play. I'm not entirely certain what the point of these conversations is but it sounds kinda Chicken Little. Sure, the sky will eventually fall because that's what skies do. I'm not entirely certain what the point of all this discussion is but the actual point of the game is to play it and have fun. I mean, that's what I shell out the cash to accomplish. Ultimately, pointing out the obvious, regardless of the "math", doesn't really accomplish anything unless you're attempting to spread your gloom. Calling people out on stuff as dumb as social media....that accomplished even less.
Fun =/= Denial
Fun = Fun
Try having some FUN.
The majority burden of the new player experience, which is important and I have recently covered here and there, ultimately falls upon THE GAME. Tell me the last time you ran into someone who said,"This game sucks and is no fun but these people are super nice...so I'll stay and open my wallet for this horrible game." Game comes 1st....zonechat issues come later. Until that 1st bit happens....see previous points on FUN.:cool:
Edit(stuff happened while I typed): So it is your belief that turning the LvL 15 Crisis Zones into LvL 6, which would actually help shield new players from zonechat(which I believe they can't even use if they're froobs for X time anyways) would somehow empower the zonechat doomsayers and people who can look at instance numbers(which is not a default option for the new players...or new toons for that matter) and therefore adding more choices at a lower level would be detrimental to the overall game?
By contrast are you then also saying that herding these new players into Westside as their only option where they will see zonechat(again, default option) pretty much until they're 15+(depending on how long they remain in MC because the chains do progress there without the actual need to go to the Desert/Canada Crisis Zones) will somehow be a good thing?
I mean, by your post zonechat doomies are a problem. So how is exposing newbies to this even more a positive thing? If anything, by my purely observational without "math" experiences, newbies tend to make a toon, try it out some, make another toon(which would follow the exact same mission paths with no deviation in the current system), and then either decide on one of those two toons, make others(deleting one of the previous ones), and ultimately continue to play or quit. So, I do not see how fewer options and more zonechat actually improves that experience. <shrugs>
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer