That would be the exact issue I was taking with hinkey's statement. There's really no way any of us can say that PWE is somehow limiting what CN can do, so trying to say PWE has some sort of money-based speed-limiter in place is just crazy baseless speculation.
But at the end of the day, PWE is the source of funding. It's expected that they have 100% say in the direction that the game's development takes and exactly how that funding should be used.
This is already made evident by the huge contrast in this game's developmental history versus the other two games that have obviously been given higher priority over this one. The trend has been noticeable for years already. It isn't as crazy and baseless as you think.
Hardly true. You can't figure out exactly the reasonable performance without a lot more information about the code base, but basic familiarity with software production is sufficient to know that the CN staff is inadequate to do a full game AI rewrite.
Do you know what kind of code is in CO? Did the previous team give a proper turn over? If everything is well documented? Have dev teams been operating under tribal knowledge rules? What kind of leadership is on the dev team? Are there any overly negative employees? How many people are working on CO? What kind of experience level does the team have?
Those are just a few of the question you can't answer. Knowing about software production doesn't mean jack when speculating how much work the devs can or can't do. There are a ton of things that depend on information we will never know.
At best, you can look at an indy studio with less everything and say "why can't this be done here"? Or just say "I want this" and let the devs figure out the details.
Dark Souls
Actual difficulty with a pattern and timing based learning curve, including a Block and Counter system.
Champions Online
Easiest MMO in history which includes a block feature, with most difficulty complaints coming from Archetypes lower than level 15 doing only Alert content, and Freeforms who enjoy Faking it with poor excuses, or purposely making the weakest build possible in order to proceed a falsified arguement as already proven above and beyond with countless videos of evidence showing how much a breeze the game really is.
No cause one time I died when I was level 10 and I accidentally unplugged both my mouse and my keyboard right after I accidentally turned off my energy builder. CO: Prepare To Die Edition, right there.
People who make these super builds are silly anyway. My latest character has a passive, a form, a block, and then everything else on their list is an attack, and I do fine u_u
literally everything you say after this in this thread should be ignored.
You do fine. Wow what a statement, ofcourse a free form basically living in an ATs skin will still do fine.
However what you describe is exactly the opposite of a well refined optimal free form build. And i am literally talking from the perspective of the game at launch.
It has always been and always will be a major self gimp to build as you describe and I feel bad for any new comers you may ever take under your wing if that is what you teach them.
3 attack powers, that is the absolute limit in a optimal free form build, and of those 3 one is a boss nuker, one a trash eater, and one more often then not used for some buff or debuff more then as dps. or they will all be top teir attack powers so any of the 3 is perfectly viable as dps in all situations and allow some rotation more to change the flavor of the moment while playing.
AD rotation existed long before the current issue. and its not wrong or bad, its logical to stack defense sources. you get what 14 powers by 40 as a free form last I recall. 11 of those are going to be devoted to survival and buffing oneself up and weakening foes not outright dps.
People who want to make glass cannons have no biz insulting others by calling them silly for making fine tuned tools that make the most of what the game gives them, and as always those hating on the optimal free forms reek of being jelly most likely directly connected with an inability to make an optimal character.
Frankly i am glad the game caters to the casual and average. I have no hate for the game for that approach. If I wanted hard core raiding etc many other MMOs exist. But hating on, and trying to tear down players for making actual super heroes in a super hero game are a major reason i have no regrets about leaving all MMOs behind.
People are just like crabs, if they cant make the climb, they hold on to those who can to keep them from reaching the heights they are capable of.
Isn't that what makes the game interesting, and why we have a freeform system? Create whatever concepts we can come up with?
if anyone is deviating from how the game is intended to be played, its the people who create characters with no concept or theme but winning.
yeah because its not like even the concept of power thieves who can steal abilities from other to turn themselves into superior omni powered beings is new to the genre. that is exactly what rogue, and synch where long before the rise of the tv show Heroes, and their Syler character.
Hence no matter how much people like you might ***** about free forms being whatever they want. even if they dont RP and dont write bios, are not at all out of place in a world where the science and magic most certainly is possible to exist to allow anyone to become whatever their imaginations seek.
After all champions verse has always been rather silly and without need for deep reasons.
So a characters bio being something along the lines of " One day i yearned for the powers to be a hero, and suddenly I began to manifest any ability I could desire" is a completely viable origin.
literally everything you say after this in this thread should be ignored.
You do fine. Wow what a statement, ofcourse a free form basically living in an ATs skin will still do fine.
However what you describe is exactly the opposite of a well refined optimal free form build. And i am literally talking from the perspective of the game at launch.
It has always been and always will be a major self gimp to build as you describe and I feel bad for any new comers you may ever take under your wing if that is what you teach them.
3 attack powers, that is the absolute limit in a optimal free form build, and of those 3 one is a boss nuker, one a trash eater, and one more often then not used for some buff or debuff more then as dps. or they will all be top teir attack powers so any of the 3 is perfectly viable as dps in all situations and allow some rotation more to change the flavor of the moment while playing.
AD rotation existed long before the current issue. and its not wrong or bad, its logical to stack defense sources. you get what 14 powers by 40 as a free form last I recall. 11 of those are going to be devoted to survival and buffing oneself up and weakening foes not outright dps.
People who want to make glass cannons have no biz insulting others by calling them silly for making fine tuned tools that make the most of what the game gives them, and as always those hating on the optimal free forms reek of being jelly most likely directly connected with an inability to make an optimal character.
Frankly i am glad the game caters to the casual and average. I have no hate for the game for that approach. If I wanted hard core raiding etc many other MMOs exist. But hating on, and trying to tear down players for making actual super heroes in a super hero game are a major reason i have no regrets about leaving all MMOs behind.
People are just like crabs, if they cant make the climb, they hold on to those who can to keep them from reaching the heights they are capable of.
Much wall of text. Such crabs. Wow.
Foxi's worst builds are better than most peoples "l33t" builds. Ive seen her out DPS and out agro good old Caliga and Silverspar.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
literally everything you say after this in this thread should be ignored.
You do fine. Wow what a statement, ofcourse a free form basically living in an ATs skin will still do fine.
However what you describe is exactly the opposite of a well refined optimal free form build. And i am literally talking from the perspective of the game at launch.
It has always been and always will be a major self gimp to build as you describe and I feel bad for any new comers you may ever take under your wing if that is what you teach them.
3 attack powers, that is the absolute limit in a optimal free form build, and of those 3 one is a boss nuker, one a trash eater, and one more often then not used for some buff or debuff more then as dps. or they will all be top teir attack powers so any of the 3 is perfectly viable as dps in all situations and allow some rotation more to change the flavor of the moment while playing.
AD rotation existed long before the current issue. and its not wrong or bad, its logical to stack defense sources. you get what 14 powers by 40 as a free form last I recall. 11 of those are going to be devoted to survival and buffing oneself up and weakening foes not outright dps.
People who want to make glass cannons have no biz insulting others by calling them silly for making fine tuned tools that make the most of what the game gives them, and as always those hating on the optimal free forms reek of being jelly most likely directly connected with an inability to make an optimal character.
Frankly i am glad the game caters to the casual and average. I have no hate for the game for that approach. If I wanted hard core raiding etc many other MMOs exist. But hating on, and trying to tear down players for making actual super heroes in a super hero game are a major reason i have no regrets about leaving all MMOs behind.
People are just like crabs, if they cant make the climb, they hold on to those who can to keep them from reaching the heights they are capable of.
I tank alerts with the build I described, and I do it recklessly by pulling multiple groups at once and I often run away from the the other players in the group to solo entire groups of NPCs.
You don't need a "super optimized build" to not be a glass cannon. Have you ever actually played anything else? You can you know...
yeah because its not like even the concept of power thieves who can steal abilities from other to turn themselves into superior omni powered beings is new to the genre. that is exactly what rogue, and synch where long before the rise of the tv show Heroes, and their Syler character.
Hence no matter how much people like you might ***** about free forms being whatever they want. even if they dont RP and dont write bios, are not at all out of place in a world where the science and magic most certainly is possible to exist to allow anyone to become whatever their imaginations seek.
After all champions verse has always been rather silly and without need for deep reasons.
So a characters bio being something along the lines of " One day i yearned for the powers to be a hero, and suddenly I began to manifest any ability I could desire" is a completely viable origin.
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of those power thieves running around... and yet I don't see anything about it in any of their profiles. Is it part of Champions Lore that champs will go up to each other and say "Hey you seem pretty strong, can you give me a list of your powers so I can use them instead of the ones I was born with or whatever? Cool cool." Imagine if the Avengers all had Iron Man's armor, Cap America's shield, Thor's hammer, that one guy's bow, and Hulk's rage strength, with only one specific way of using each of those, that would have been an interesting franchise!
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of those power thieves running around... and yet I don't see anything about it in any of their profiles. Is it part of Champions Lore that champs will go up to each other and say "Hey you seem pretty strong, can you give me a list of your powers so I can use them instead of the ones I was born with or whatever? Cool cool." Imagine if the Avengers all had Iron Man's armor, Cap America's shield, Thor's hammer, that one guy's bow, and Hulk's rage strength, with only one specific way of using each of those, that would have been an interesting franchise!
New! From Cryptic Studios! City of Super-Skrulls!
I'd bet that the percentage of frankenbuilders in the general population is lower than the percentage of forum regulars.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
literally everything you say after this in this thread should be ignored.
You do fine. Wow what a statement, ofcourse a free form basically living in an ATs skin will still do fine.
However what you describe is exactly the opposite of a well refined optimal free form build. And i am literally talking from the perspective of the game at launch.
It has always been and always will be a major self gimp to build as you describe and I feel bad for any new comers you may ever take under your wing if that is what you teach them.
3 attack powers, that is the absolute limit in a optimal free form build, and of those 3 one is a boss nuker, one a trash eater, and one more often then not used for some buff or debuff more then as dps. or they will all be top teir attack powers so any of the 3 is perfectly viable as dps in all situations and allow some rotation more to change the flavor of the moment while playing.
AD rotation existed long before the current issue. and its not wrong or bad, its logical to stack defense sources. you get what 14 powers by 40 as a free form last I recall. 11 of those are going to be devoted to survival and buffing oneself up and weakening foes not outright dps.
People who want to make glass cannons have no biz insulting others by calling them silly for making fine tuned tools that make the most of what the game gives them, and as always those hating on the optimal free forms reek of being jelly most likely directly connected with an inability to make an optimal character.
Frankly i am glad the game caters to the casual and average. I have no hate for the game for that approach. If I wanted hard core raiding etc many other MMOs exist. But hating on, and trying to tear down players for making actual super heroes in a super hero game are a major reason i have no regrets about leaving all MMOs behind.
People are just like crabs, if they cant make the climb, they hold on to those who can to keep them from reaching the heights they are capable of.
I must disagree with the highlighted. Your idea for OPTIMAL builds is quite severe.
I've never found the need to pigeon-hole any character like that (3 attack powers ONLY) and I do quite well. I don't use Vigilante gear, Justice Gear, Armadillo, etc. I have a handful of Legion gear simply because I opened some boxes and got them. Most of my characters use Basic blue/Merc gear or Heroic gear. So don't YOU go telling everyone to ignore someone else's powers/gear/etc ideas when I fully DON'T subscribe to your view.
.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=- "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
literally everything you say after this in this thread should be ignored.
No offense but should not posts about character building from someone who states that they have not played this game in years (note the plural) be ignored ?
But at the end of the day, PWE is the source of funding. It's expected that they have 100% say in the direction that the game's development takes and exactly how that funding should be used.
This is already made evident by the huge contrast in this game's developmental history versus the other two games that have obviously been given higher priority over this one. The trend has been noticeable for years already. It isn't as crazy and baseless as you think.
Yes, mean ol' PWE, forcing CN to add new powers to the game. I mean hey if you hate them so much, just don't use em right?
Actually, it is my belief that the above were Straw Golems. I also like to believe that the leather "Slab" monsters in the Ep Smith and Jones could/should have been called Leather Golems. But that's just me because I used to play D&D and our DM was kind of Golem crazy.
You didn't realize that I wasn't specifically criticizing anything about new powers being added?
That seemed to be the side of the argument that you were on though. Don't you hate when you show up somewhere to support a cause you believe in only to realize you ended up at a white supremisist rally that just so happens to also be supporting the same cause? .-.
That seemed to be the side of the argument that you were on though. Don't you hate when you show up somewhere to support a cause you believe in only to realize you ended up at a white supremisist rally that just so happens to also be supporting the same cause? .-.
I wasn't on any "side". I was making an observation.
I wasn't on any "side". I was making an observation.
Also regarding the rest of your post...what?
It was something from south park. A bunch of people were saying they shouldn't change the flag, and suddenly the klu klux showed up and joined their cause...I kinda got it backwards.
Your observation didn't really need to be pointed out once the context of the thing you were responding to was considered.
PWE isn't doing anything to actively reduce the amount of effort that the staff at CN can put out, and I think anyone who says otherwise is probably nuts in the butt.
It was something from south park. A bunch of people were saying they shouldn't change the flag, and suddenly the klu klux showed up and joined their cause...I kinda got it backwards.
Your observation didn't really need to be pointed out once the context of the thing you were responding to was considered.
I don't recall needing your permission as to the kind of observation I can make regarding the topic. It was within context. It's your opinion that it wasn't needed, but also note that I could give a rat's behind about that specific opinion of yours if that's the kind of attitude you're choosing to adopt.
PWE isn't doing anything to actively reduce the amount of effort that the staff at CN can put out, and I think anyone who says otherwise is probably nuts in the butt.
What CN can and cannot do is ultimately decided by whoever it is that's funding them. Track history shows it. That's all I ever cared to point out. If you think anyone is nuts in having that view then herpa derp, okie dokie then.
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Took em 4 years to fix deathray demolition farming. Probably take em 10 years spotting something on the forum without having free labor from the few volunteers working this entire forum.
I wondered why it wasn't nuked within seconds of being posted. These types of threads are generally as useful as "I'm quitting!" threads - devolving into trolling and snark in short order.
Comments
But at the end of the day, PWE is the source of funding. It's expected that they have 100% say in the direction that the game's development takes and exactly how that funding should be used.
This is already made evident by the huge contrast in this game's developmental history versus the other two games that have obviously been given higher priority over this one. The trend has been noticeable for years already. It isn't as crazy and baseless as you think.
Do you know what kind of code is in CO? Did the previous team give a proper turn over? If everything is well documented? Have dev teams been operating under tribal knowledge rules? What kind of leadership is on the dev team? Are there any overly negative employees? How many people are working on CO? What kind of experience level does the team have?
Those are just a few of the question you can't answer. Knowing about software production doesn't mean jack when speculating how much work the devs can or can't do. There are a ton of things that depend on information we will never know.
At best, you can look at an indy studio with less everything and say "why can't this be done here"? Or just say "I want this" and let the devs figure out the details.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Actual difficulty with a pattern and timing based learning curve, including a Block and Counter system.
Champions Online
Easiest MMO in history which includes a block feature, with most difficulty complaints coming from Archetypes lower than level 15 doing only Alert content, and Freeforms who enjoy Faking it with poor excuses, or purposely making the weakest build possible in order to proceed a falsified arguement as already proven above and beyond with countless videos of evidence showing how much a breeze the game really is.
literally everything you say after this in this thread should be ignored.
You do fine. Wow what a statement, ofcourse a free form basically living in an ATs skin will still do fine.
However what you describe is exactly the opposite of a well refined optimal free form build. And i am literally talking from the perspective of the game at launch.
It has always been and always will be a major self gimp to build as you describe and I feel bad for any new comers you may ever take under your wing if that is what you teach them.
3 attack powers, that is the absolute limit in a optimal free form build, and of those 3 one is a boss nuker, one a trash eater, and one more often then not used for some buff or debuff more then as dps. or they will all be top teir attack powers so any of the 3 is perfectly viable as dps in all situations and allow some rotation more to change the flavor of the moment while playing.
AD rotation existed long before the current issue. and its not wrong or bad, its logical to stack defense sources. you get what 14 powers by 40 as a free form last I recall. 11 of those are going to be devoted to survival and buffing oneself up and weakening foes not outright dps.
People who want to make glass cannons have no biz insulting others by calling them silly for making fine tuned tools that make the most of what the game gives them, and as always those hating on the optimal free forms reek of being jelly most likely directly connected with an inability to make an optimal character.
Frankly i am glad the game caters to the casual and average. I have no hate for the game for that approach. If I wanted hard core raiding etc many other MMOs exist. But hating on, and trying to tear down players for making actual super heroes in a super hero game are a major reason i have no regrets about leaving all MMOs behind.
People are just like crabs, if they cant make the climb, they hold on to those who can to keep them from reaching the heights they are capable of.
yeah because its not like even the concept of power thieves who can steal abilities from other to turn themselves into superior omni powered beings is new to the genre. that is exactly what rogue, and synch where long before the rise of the tv show Heroes, and their Syler character.
Hence no matter how much people like you might ***** about free forms being whatever they want. even if they dont RP and dont write bios, are not at all out of place in a world where the science and magic most certainly is possible to exist to allow anyone to become whatever their imaginations seek.
After all champions verse has always been rather silly and without need for deep reasons.
So a characters bio being something along the lines of " One day i yearned for the powers to be a hero, and suddenly I began to manifest any ability I could desire" is a completely viable origin.
Much wall of text. Such crabs. Wow.
Foxi's worst builds are better than most peoples "l33t" builds. Ive seen her out DPS and out agro good old Caliga and Silverspar.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I tank alerts with the build I described, and I do it recklessly by pulling multiple groups at once and I often run away from the the other players in the group to solo entire groups of NPCs.
You don't need a "super optimized build" to not be a glass cannon. Have you ever actually played anything else? You can you know...
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of those power thieves running around... and yet I don't see anything about it in any of their profiles. Is it part of Champions Lore that champs will go up to each other and say "Hey you seem pretty strong, can you give me a list of your powers so I can use them instead of the ones I was born with or whatever? Cool cool." Imagine if the Avengers all had Iron Man's armor, Cap America's shield, Thor's hammer, that one guy's bow, and Hulk's rage strength, with only one specific way of using each of those, that would have been an interesting franchise!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
New! From Cryptic Studios! City of Super-Skrulls!
I'd bet that the percentage of frankenbuilders in the general population is lower than the percentage of forum regulars.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
That's because the general population is apparently mostly archetypes.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I must disagree with the highlighted. Your idea for OPTIMAL builds is quite severe.
I've never found the need to pigeon-hole any character like that (3 attack powers ONLY) and I do quite well. I don't use Vigilante gear, Justice Gear, Armadillo, etc. I have a handful of Legion gear simply because I opened some boxes and got them. Most of my characters use Basic blue/Merc gear or Heroic gear. So don't YOU go telling everyone to ignore someone else's powers/gear/etc ideas when I fully DON'T subscribe to your view.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
No offense but should not posts about character building from someone who states that they have not played this game in years (note the plural) be ignored ?
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Yes, mean ol' PWE, forcing CN to add new powers to the game. I mean hey if you hate them so much, just don't use em right?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
That wasn't what I was refering to. Nice strawman.
Oh, you didn't even realize that that was the conversation you jumped into?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
-
Actually, it is my belief that the above were Straw Golems. I also like to believe that the leather "Slab" monsters in the Ep Smith and Jones could/should have been called Leather Golems. But that's just me because I used to play D&D and our DM was kind of Golem crazy.
You didn't realize that I wasn't specifically criticizing anything about new powers being added?
That seemed to be the side of the argument that you were on though. Don't you hate when you show up somewhere to support a cause you believe in only to realize you ended up at a white supremisist rally that just so happens to also be supporting the same cause? .-.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I wasn't on any "side". I was making an observation.
Also regarding the rest of your post...what?
It was something from south park. A bunch of people were saying they shouldn't change the flag, and suddenly the klu klux showed up and joined their cause...I kinda got it backwards.
Your observation didn't really need to be pointed out once the context of the thing you were responding to was considered.
PWE isn't doing anything to actively reduce the amount of effort that the staff at CN can put out, and I think anyone who says otherwise is probably nuts in the butt.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I don't watch South Park.
I don't recall needing your permission as to the kind of observation I can make regarding the topic. It was within context. It's your opinion that it wasn't needed, but also note that I could give a rat's behind about that specific opinion of yours if that's the kind of attitude you're choosing to adopt.
What CN can and cannot do is ultimately decided by whoever it is that's funding them. Track history shows it. That's all I ever cared to point out. If you think anyone is nuts in having that view then herpa derp, okie dokie then.
Took em 4 years to fix deathray demolition farming. Probably take em 10 years spotting something on the forum without having free labor from the few volunteers working this entire forum.
I wondered why it wasn't nuked within seconds of being posted. These types of threads are generally as useful as "I'm quitting!" threads - devolving into trolling and snark in short order.