Indeed, I still like more CO combat over DCUO but it is a matter of opinion.
Regardless of the technical details, DCUO and MH are better than CO since they are getting frequent updates and advertisement and CO is not.
DCUO has better graphics and the combat is better however, they have a lack of content and you pretty much have to group with others to make any real significant progress. At least that is how it was when I played, maybe it has changed since then.
you think DCUO has a lack of content compared to CO? that's nonsense, even though most new content in DCUO is paid, there IS new content regularly, what do we get here? mostly lockboxes and other small stuff.
Compared to that other Super Hero MMO I used to play, CO is better in my opinion. That " other " Super Hero MMO kinda falls flat after their level cap. They have a lack of missions so you pretty much repeat the same content over and over again which you have to pay for. CO seems to have quite a bit of missions from what I've seen so far.
That " other " Super Hero MMO isn't solo friendly like CO. I like an MMO that allows you to group up or solo instead of only being able to progress in a group.
The character customization is far superior and unmatched compared to that " other " Super Hero MMO. Not only can you customize your appearance in detail but you can customize your combat and powers. That's something I haven't experienced in any MMO other than CO at the moment.
Well, unless it's changed since I last checked it out (again) it still lacks the ability to make a character that feels like a super reflex character.
Also, lack of costume options at creation is terrible and I didn't feel it was any better as I played.
Body Types over body sliders is only good if they give you a body type that you're happy with, DCUO just feels lacking.
This doesn't mean DCUO doesn't have plus points on it's side. Being in the same universe as major comic book superheroes is awesome!
They're also treated as bit less of a joke as players in CO like to treat NPCs in game (CoH had this same problem).
Personally, I think CO beat DCUO by quite a bit. DCUO is also CO's only real competition in superhero MMO, since Marvel's game is not a MMO.
Maybe it was a costume piece I had to unlock somehow.... maybe.... I dunno.... but it annoyed me. I know DCUO had a lot of costume pieces(there's even a special in-game event that give you more), but.... not being able to resize wings just seems dumb.
DCUO has better graphics and the combat is better however, they have a lack of content and you pretty much have to group with others to make any real significant progress. At least that is how it was when I played, maybe it has changed since then.
I highly disagree on the "combat is better" part.
The clunky and rigid feeling of combat was the one thing that put me off DCUO, right at the tutorial even.
This was on the PS3 version, since I wanted to use a controller to play it.
Yeah, some aspects of DCUO's combat require you to circle strafe in order to not die a quick death. I hated that. It's not the circle strafing itself that was the issue really, it's that it's only "fair" when you can see it coming. You often couldn't. Those stupid flamethrower wielding Gorillas liked to shoot you in the back with it.... Also, you may or may not have room to run in circles around the enemy... especially not without attracting more enemies...
the thing that was the most fun for me was flying around and looking for stuff. The devs hid these lore thingies in all sorts of random places.
An mmo without solid updates lead to poor player retention over time. Like I said sometimes about CO too much dress up but not many parties to attend.
In DCUO you are a newborn hero so you are expected to train with members of the Justice league in missions. The relation with JL main heroes is not that different that the ones with statesman. In CO, we don't shine because we are great, it is because champions team is not really awesome. Moreless the dilemma of being mouse head or lion tail.
At any case, they copied the hideouts and even got SG bases. In DCUO most Boss fights has something special, maybe not great but in CO some examples aside like Therakiel bossfights are basically hit it mindlessly until goes down with no teamwork.
For me CO shines in customization and I still like better the power design. In the end, it is mainly potentiality but if I have to recommend a superhero mmo to a friend that want to invest some time and money, CO would not be top of the list.
However, I am seeing some change with the recent updates, so Cryptic seems to start trying to get back in the super hero mmo fight. Hopefully, with time I will be able to recommend CO as top hero mmo.
It baffles me why Cryptic and PWE aren't exploiting the hell out of the Super Hero craze of movies and culture in general right now.
Its time to pour on the major reinvestment into this game. Complete lore advancing expansions, customization to the next level, community collaborated group progress (Super Group advancement), and ultimately a unique Foundry specifically for Champions (the ultimate step to a PnP based game setting).
It is a _crying shame_ that this game doesn't have Foundry.
As much as Cryptic tends to develop something and then walk away and never touch it again, I'd be totally cool with an abandoned Foundry like in NW or STO with the huge range of options possible in CO.
sigh
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
it kills me that the devs don't think the foundry is worth it all the changes needed to make it viable for this game.
Or just don't have the available resources. You can't buy what you can't afford. Like I said earlier, just because I'm able to make the mortgage payments on my house and even pick up maybe a new TV or something, doesn't mean I can afford to add a wing to the place.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
It's a business run by a very large company (Perfect World, International).
They have PLENTY of money, they just don't think it's worth the risk.
The problem with Foundry is that it's an investment that's impossible to demonstrate ROI. If they put in the resources and released Foundry, anything that happens next would be impossible to pin directly on Foundry.
Business goes down? Maybe it would have gone down faster without Foundry. Maybe Foundry annoyed people.
Business stays the same? Again, maybe Foundry was a hedge against revenue loss. Maybe it was a waste of time.
Business improves? Maybe it's due to Foundry! Or maybe the latest superhero movies increased revenue and Foundry was just a drain.
While I believe Foundry would make a big difference, there is no real way I could ever prove it to businessmen.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
It baffles me why Cryptic and PWE aren't exploiting the hell out of the Super Hero craze of movies and culture in general right now.
Its time to pour on the major reinvestment into this game. Complete lore advancing expansions, customization to the next level, community collaborated group progress (Super Group advancement), and ultimately a unique Foundry specifically for Champions (the ultimate step to a PnP based game setting).
Or are they? When was the last tiem a new social zone got added? Well... we have a new social zone now.
It baffles me why Cryptic and PWE aren't exploiting the hell out of the Super Hero craze of movies and culture in general right now.
Its time to pour on the major reinvestment into this game. Complete lore advancing expansions, customization to the next level, community collaborated group progress (Super Group advancement), and ultimately a unique Foundry specifically for Champions (the ultimate step to a PnP based game setting).
main reason I consider CO dead and have not bothered to play in years. the comic movie craze has been in high gear for a while now, and CoHs death gave every reason for PWE to pump tons into this game to bring out its fullest potential, but nope in classic PWE fashion they would rather milk a sick cow till its dead, then give it some vet love and make that trickle of milk become galleons.
Have to spend money to make it, and CO aint gonna make it if PWE wont spend it first. Just buying the rights wasnt enough PWE. Put up or shut down I say.
People comment about the popularity of comic book movies and why CO has not capitalized on that trend. The thing is that movies, a (perhaps THE) mainstream form of entertainment, are a radically different medium and do not necessarily feed success to other, niche mediums.
If comic books themselves are a declining medium despite movies about those same exact characters being hugely popular it seems odd to assume that an MMO should be expected to do better.
There are, have been, three comic book superhero style MMOs. They have all struggled or failed financially. Between them they have invested many millions of dollars in their products...and then failed to go beyond being niche games.
Superheroes are mainstream in movies. They are niche in MMOs.
Ice is default/main tank? There's no Brick powerset?
Man wut?
The travel powers are awesome, as is the integration of travel 'moves.'
The controls are, again, utterly wonky (at least for PC play). And chat... Uh.
DCUO is better supported and the graphics are awesome, though.
I enjoyed DCUO when I played it, but the issue I had with it was the controls. I was never good at using a keyboard for movement and since I have mild but premature arthritis in my hands (I'm not that old, but I'm a retired vet with a lot of nerve problems from a spinal injury) I had a difficult time playing it. (its been better since my last surgery...hmmm, maybe I'll try DCUO again in the future).
Since CoX is gone CO is the only superhero game with its own "universe". That's a more important thing to me than in may be to others. (it also has the benefit here of less XxBatmanxX characters running around.) There's a lot of lore from the tabletop games, much more than the game taps into.
Is it the best superhero game? I'd think that depends on your preferences, and there isn't much competition. But I'd love to see City of Heroes come back.
Because the answers are coming from people who are here, and not at those other ones at the moment. Otherwise, why would they waste valuable play time hanging out at these boards?
it kills me that the devs don't think the foundry is worth it all the changes needed to make it viable for this game.
I don't think the foundry would help much unless they made 2 categories:
1.) Here's where people can create and post interesting adventures with a story behind it.
2.) Heres where people can make farming missions with no substance or thought put into it
Because you're going to get number 2 regardless. I'd rather be able to find a decent mission than have to crawl through dozens of powerlevelling nonsense to find one.
Given how the only other existing one is DCUO... quoting Wonderella: Default is the best fault to have.
While I don't think Valiance is a threat to CO (gameplay-wise it's a big step backwards), should they ever release a mission editor then CO will need to seriously up its game. You know what I'm talking about.
Well, you get a tiny amount per enemy, but that's it.
I know, and I don't have much faith in people not building missions with a billion enemies to be farmed for that. Maybe its just paranoia on my part, but I can't help but recall the horrendous amount of pointless missions like that in CoX. I wouldn't have cared if they were separated from the ones where there was some effort to make it a story worth playing.
While I don't think Valiance is a threat to CO (gameplay-wise it's a big step backwards)
You might be surprised, but many people don't really dig CO power structure and the game balance in tatters and liked CoH/V dual powersets style.
If someone actually did a game structured like CoH/V, but without annoying recharges, with energy management more like CO, with access to travel powers, and with up to date graphics? That actually could earn following.
Having that said, Valiance isn't finished, is far from being completed and there were only rumors about it maybe being given a mission editor in the future.
Originally Posted by gradii View Post
I've already explained STO foundry missions give no XP. why should a CO foundry be different?
I know, and I don't have much faith in people not building missions with a billion enemies to be farmed for that. Maybe its just paranoia on my part, but I can't help but recall the horrendous amount of pointless missions like that in CoX. I wouldn't have cared if they were separated from the ones where there was some effort to make it a story worth playing.
Also, you only get xp/loot from the first 50, each day.
Also, you only get xp/loot from the first 50, each day.
Hmmm...I wasn't aware of that. Its been awhile since I've played STO. Given what you and Gradi have said, perhaps a foundry would be nice in CO, then. I wouldn't mind having other ways to level characters story wise, to be honest. Its nice to try new character builds, but after awhile the whole fight the new purple gang/go to Canada/desert/ etc gets old.
You might be surprised, but many people don't really dig CO power structure and the game balance in tatters and liked CoH/V dual powersets style.
If someone actually did a game structured like CoH/V, but without annoying recharges, with energy management more like CO, with access to travel powers, and with up to date graphics? That actually could earn following.
Having that said, Valiance isn't finished, is far from being completed and there were only rumors about it maybe being given a mission editor in the future.
Now see, this is where I often wonder if those who thought some of this, actually played the game.
Annoying recharges? Didn't have annoying recharges on my characters. Why? Because I picked the right powers/enhancements.
Annoying energy management? Right enhancements and power choices.
All the same things I have to do in CO right now. Grab an Energy Unlock (notice how people tend to grab the same couple...so CoH having just one isn't much different).
All CO has is Maintain/Charge Attacks and it it gets to the point people spam the same attack
Could care less about the graphics, what I care about is an art style I like visually. I think most other players are the same.
Each game has it's own charm. I guess I just get bummed because I love supers. I prefer supers to almost any other game genre.
For people like me the choices have always been limited. Even back in the days before MMO's. So CO fills a certain niche, and that's a good thing.
I keep trying to like DCUO and I just don't like the game. I the DC lore (the game is top notch lore wise), but as far as playstyle and power picks.. it needs help.
CO is pretty open in those areas, but has an issue with good content. So I guess it's just about which of the two games each person prefers.
Annoying recharges? Didn't have annoying recharges on my characters. Why? Because I picked the right powers/enhancements.
Annoying energy management? Right enhancements and power choices.
But not in the early gameplay which makes for a quite slow early experience. Worked quite well as a barrier in making me stick for longer with CoH/V, because slow early gameplay is not exactly how mmos are made these days.
This is somewhat a reverse of what is in CO and DCUO.
I could deal with its, but why when two other supergero mmos had this early tutorial-like part of the game being faster?
That's actually typical for older mmos, not only CoH/V, but also older WoW and Lineage II had it.
Eventually WoW also did change it and it was improved for low levels.
If you can tolerate the game enough to get a character up to level 15-20, I HIGHLY recommend checking out Neverwinter Foundry.
The engine is significantly more advanced than STO's, and people have done some astounding stuff with it.
Strangely, the rewards seem more sensibly designed in STO.
Examples:
In STO, you can rotate objects you place, but only around z axis.
In NW, you can rotate objects in all directions.
NW has teleporters, linking different parts of a map. This can be used to create some 'game logic'
STO doesn't. ...
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
But not in the early gameplay which makes for a quite slow early experience. Worked quite well as a barrier in making me stick for longer with CoH/V, because slow early gameplay is not exactly how mmos are made these days.
This is somewhat a reverse of what is in CO and DCUO.
I could deal with its, but why when two other supergero mmos had this early tutorial-like part of the game being faster?
That's actually typical for older mmos, not only CoH/V, but also older WoW and Lineage II had it.
Eventually WoW also did change it and it was improved for low levels.
seriously. A barriar you say. Look you either started in CoHs early days back when virtually no active action rpg type MMO really existed yet, or you started later when they made it so bloody easy to lvl up the first 10 or so lvls to get on the path to feeling like a more potent super being.
Even prior to the release of the sewer trial, it was very very common for pugs often composed of newb and vet alike to rush through the sewers in AP and being in the double digits before being done.
Especially so because of people like myself who loved to play mentor to new comers. Bentley Berkeley of virtue would regularly hang in AP and join sewer teams whenever they where down to a spot or two, and then be the hidden superman among them who would bring the fire power needed to just let the team keep rolling through till we would reach skyway and everyone would be well into their teens.
and really the only people who ever called it city of cool downs where the year one 5 dmg and 1 accuracy slotters. the builders of glass cannons who had to have the holy trinity to survive.
Not to mention that didnt even exist if you where a blaster or scrapper. you know the two active dps ats from year one. Ofcourse tanks and supporters would have down time inherently in how their powers worked, to help them manage what was going on around them better by not being expected to spam abilities endlessly.
The action ATs had more then enough attacks and low enough cool downs you really never had lack of something to click. and only the worst builds didnt get fitness in their builds, something that after inherent fitness was added really removed any ground for the oh its hard to manage energy argument.
seriously. A barriar you say. Look you either started in CoHs early days back when virtually no active action rpg type MMO really existed yet, or you started later when they made it so bloody easy to lvl up the first 10 or so lvls to get on the path to feeling like a more potent super being.
Even prior to the release of the sewer trial, it was very very common for pugs often composed of newb and vet alike to rush through the sewers in AP and being in the double digits before being done.
Especially so because of people like myself who loved to play mentor to new comers. Bentley Berkeley of virtue would regularly hang in AP and join sewer teams whenever they where down to a spot or two, and then be the hidden superman among them who would bring the fire power needed to just let the team keep rolling through till we would reach skyway and everyone would be well into their teens.
and really the only people who ever called it city of cool downs where the year one 5 dmg and 1 accuracy slotters. the builders of glass cannons who had to have the holy trinity to survive.
Not to mention that didnt even exist if you where a blaster or scrapper. you know the two active dps ats from year one. Ofcourse tanks and supporters would have down time inherently in how .their powers worked, to help them manage what was going on around them better by not being expected to spam abilities endlessly.
The action ATs had more then enough attacks and low enough cool downs you really never had lack of something to click. and only the worst builds didnt get fitness in their builds, something that after inherent fitness was added really removed any ground for the oh its hard to manage energy argument.
It wasn't really that difficult to level to ten in CoX. I actually didn't like it much when they were giving out jetpacks to low levels. It made it feel cheap. But then I enjoyed finally being able to get a travel power.
But then I enjoyed finally being able to get a travel power.
This was one of the worst things. Level 14 travel powers. Nothing more heroic than wishing you had a bicycle to get around faster.
I also never made it past level 20 in that game, partly because I like alts, and partly because the slow/boring combat. I wish I was an old grizzled vet who knew how to slot everything perfectly and not have to deal with cooldowns, but you can't expect new people to have all this experience.
This was one of the worst things. Level 14 travel powers. Nothing more heroic than wishing you had a bicycle to get around faster.
I also never made it past level 20 in that game, partly because I like alts, and partly because the slow/boring combat. I wish I was an old grizzled vet who knew how to slot everything perfectly and not have to deal with cooldowns, but you can't expect new people to have all this experience.
^Pretty much this.
CoV/H vets may see it through the rose-colored glasses, but the game was actually dated by modern standards and eventual new players trying the game had no real obligation to give any damn to the old school when they have newer games to play.
CoV/H had old and tried audience of vets, but it wasn't exactly successful in gaining and keeping a lot of new players, and it went through the server merges.
No matter how great the game might be in later levels, I don't have to give any damn to this fact if it fails to keep me interested early.
If it's more fun to design a character than play the game, something went wrong.
This is pretty much my feeling on CoX. Champs was a bit better gameplay to me, but it's still got tons of weaknesses. That said, waiting for Cryptic to just unveil CO with the Neverwinter engine so it can be even better.
CoV/H vets may see it through the rose-colored glasses, but the game was actually dated by modern standards and eventual new players trying the game had no real obligation to give any damn to the old school when they have newer games to play.
CoV/H had old and tried audience of vets, but it wasn't exactly successful in gaining and keeping a lot of new players, and it went through the server merges.
No matter how great the game might be in later levels, I don't have to give any damn to this fact if it fails to keep me interested early.
No rose colored glasses here, but CoH ended with you being able to get a travel power at level 4. Which in CO, first travel power is available at 6.
CoH server merges? They made it so European and American players could be on any server, no longer limited to NA servers and Euro Servers. They then also added the Exalted Server. I wouldn't call that server merges.
I remember my brief experience in CoH, after it went F2P. I made a character designed to fry my opponents with lightning. His costume was amazingly cool.
Then I went out to fight bad guys. I got to fire a lightning blast - then punch people while I waited for the lightning to come off cooldown.
After some boredom and disappointment, I left the game, never to return. It's no good telling me, "Well, if you just stick it out, the game gets really good later!" Somehow, I can't imagine the game getting better enough to take that early taste out of my mouth.
I came to CO after it went F2P, as well. Couldn't start off with a Tempest, sadly, as those cost money; but the toons I could start off with, were able to use their powers from the moment they came into existence. What you did while building up energy was to use a power that built up energy! (As I recall, my first toon was an Inferno. All of his attacks involved fire, even the one he used when he was exhausted.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Yeah... as I've said before, just the first couple of levels of play isn't enough to judge a game by. Cry moar. Biff's experience makes his opinion more valid than yours as he actually gave it a longer go than go ADD like you did.
I remember my brief experience in CoH, after it went F2P. I made a character designed to fry my opponents with lightning. His costume was amazingly cool.
Then I went out to fight bad guys. I got to fire a lightning blast - then punch people while I waited for the lightning to come off cooldown.
After some boredom and disappointment, I left the game, never to return. It's no good telling me, "Well, if you just stick it out, the game gets really good later!" Somehow, I can't imagine the game getting better enough to take that early taste out of my mouth.
I came to CO after it went F2P, as well. Couldn't start off with a Tempest, sadly, as those cost money; but the toons I could start off with, were able to use their powers from the moment they came into existence. What you did while building up energy was to use a power that built up energy! (As I recall, my first toon was an Inferno. All of his attacks involved fire, even the one he used when he was exhausted.)
you know, as often as you tell this story, it always strikes me as strange, i'm presuming you made a blaster, so you should have started with one of two primary power and one secondary power, presuming you had a elec/elec blaster you should have had either a very fast recharging ability lightning attack or one that would one shot most white cons but recharged slightly slower, and a secondary power that was a targeted single target immob with a fairly useful dot power. and after a fairly early issue, you also should have had a origin power which helped fill out the attack chain. compared to co where you start with a fast weak attack and a charge harder attack(in most combinations, ill admit i have never played a archetype) and at the start using a charged attack will likely drain you till you throw 2 or 3 weak shots to recharge. but the time ti takes to get you a second Lightning power and a second secondary st melee attack(which also can one shot white cons of most groups you face at that level) so while feel is just going to be one of those subjective things, i dont know any loadouts in coh that had lightning powers that only had a single attack, did you make a devices blaster? you should have started with 4 powers you could attack with, including brawl,
one thing i wish co had could be a mid speed "sprint" power, regular speed is really slow and a lot of travel powers feel floaty and can be hard to use indoors, especially acrobatics.. a mid level power would be nice.
Yeah... as I've said before, just the first couple of levels of play isn't enough to judge a game by. Cry moar. Biff's experience makes his opinion more valid than yours as he actually gave it a longer go than go ADD like you did.
If the feel of gameplay doesn't cut it from the get go, then it doesn't cut it. Period. It is entirely valid to judge a game based on the feel of its controls and gameplay mechanics (based on personal opinion) from the start without an extended amount of play time.
I don't think Jon wasn't saying that the overall quality of CoX was bad based on just how the gameplay mechanics felt. What he was saying was valid in contrast to CO's combat; CoX's combat felt objectively slower with all the waiting time for even the most basic attacks to recharge. I already had 3 level 50 toons in CoX prior to coming over to CO and when I returned a year later, the constant recharge waiting did annoy me so I can understand where Jon or anyone with the same feelings on the matter is coming from.
If the feel of gameplay doesn't cut it from the get go, then it doesn't cut it. Period. It is entirely valid to judge a game based on the feel of its controls and gameplay mechanics (based on personal opinion) from the start without an extended amount of play time.
No it's not. It's just not. It's barely experiencing the game at all. As I've also said before, it would be like judging CO by just the tutorial and the first two Purple Gang missions. It's just not enough play time to form a valid opinion.
No rose colored glasses here, but CoH ended with you being able to get a travel power at level 4. Which in CO, first travel power is available at 6.
For me, it was too little, too late. I did go back to try out the new stuff. The tutorial was much better, way more exciting than fighting just a bunch of thugs here and there (I may be misremembering, it was a long time ago). I don't doubt that they changed the travel power to level 4 because Champs gave it to you so early, and because Champs' tutorial was a bit more exciting. (I don't fault them for it at all, stuff like that is always fair game, I believe.)
But anyway, I already had dozens of characters by the time CoH changed, and I liked the gameplay, character building, and graphic style better here better. Coupled with the fact that my friend roped me into an AE mission to powerlevel me and I fell through the floor immediately and could do nothing, there wasn't too much reason for me to give it another shake.
Yeah... as I've said before, just the first couple of levels of play isn't enough to judge a game by. Cry moar. Biff's experience makes his opinion more valid than yours as he actually gave it a longer go than go ADD like you did.
He still makes the same point, though. If a game doesn't hook you right away, you're not likely to stay, especially if it's free to play. I joined way before it went free, so I had that month I'd already payed for. At that point you're already invested and committed. And also I had real life friends playing, so it was a reason to stay for a while. I was also bored to death of WoW at the time.
If I'd joined during the free to play, though, I'd probably have stayed for a good long while, anyway, just because of the genre. I think the paid MMO I bought that lasted the least amount of time for me was Conan. I think I bought the collector's edition and played a whole week before it bored me.
I didn't dislike CoH when I was playing it. It was pretty much the same kind of MMO stuff that I'd been used to (except not having an auto-attack was just really weird to me), but at the same time, it didn't really WOW me in too many areas. Costume creator was great, and it's the best time I'd ever had in any game as a healer (I never roll healers, ever; I have 80 DPS characters, and nothing else, in my roster in Champs). It had its good moments, but nothing ever compelled me to keep going.
Wow I kinda rambled there. TL;DR, firetrucks are cool.
Comments
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
DCUO has better graphics and the combat is better however, they have a lack of content and you pretty much have to group with others to make any real significant progress. At least that is how it was when I played, maybe it has changed since then.
Well, unless it's changed since I last checked it out (again) it still lacks the ability to make a character that feels like a super reflex character.
Also, lack of costume options at creation is terrible and I didn't feel it was any better as I played.
Body Types over body sliders is only good if they give you a body type that you're happy with, DCUO just feels lacking.
This doesn't mean DCUO doesn't have plus points on it's side. Being in the same universe as major comic book superheroes is awesome!
They're also treated as bit less of a joke as players in CO like to treat NPCs in game (CoH had this same problem).
Personally, I think CO beat DCUO by quite a bit. DCUO is also CO's only real competition in superhero MMO, since Marvel's game is not a MMO.
I was never able to find a way to make her wings larger.
Maybe it was a costume piece I had to unlock somehow.... maybe.... I dunno.... but it annoyed me. I know DCUO had a lot of costume pieces(there's even a special in-game event that give you more), but.... not being able to resize wings just seems dumb.
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I highly disagree on the "combat is better" part.
The clunky and rigid feeling of combat was the one thing that put me off DCUO, right at the tutorial even.
This was on the PS3 version, since I wanted to use a controller to play it.
the thing that was the most fun for me was flying around and looking for stuff. The devs hid these lore thingies in all sorts of random places.
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In DCUO you are a newborn hero so you are expected to train with members of the Justice league in missions. The relation with JL main heroes is not that different that the ones with statesman. In CO, we don't shine because we are great, it is because champions team is not really awesome. Moreless the dilemma of being mouse head or lion tail.
At any case, they copied the hideouts and even got SG bases. In DCUO most Boss fights has something special, maybe not great but in CO some examples aside like Therakiel bossfights are basically hit it mindlessly until goes down with no teamwork.
For me CO shines in customization and I still like better the power design. In the end, it is mainly potentiality but if I have to recommend a superhero mmo to a friend that want to invest some time and money, CO would not be top of the list.
However, I am seeing some change with the recent updates, so Cryptic seems to start trying to get back in the super hero mmo fight. Hopefully, with time I will be able to recommend CO as top hero mmo.
Its time to pour on the major reinvestment into this game. Complete lore advancing expansions, customization to the next level, community collaborated group progress (Super Group advancement), and ultimately a unique Foundry specifically for Champions (the ultimate step to a PnP based game setting).
It is a _crying shame_ that this game doesn't have Foundry.
As much as Cryptic tends to develop something and then walk away and never touch it again, I'd be totally cool with an abandoned Foundry like in NW or STO with the huge range of options possible in CO.
sigh
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
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- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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They have PLENTY of money, they just don't think it's worth the risk.
The problem with Foundry is that it's an investment that's impossible to demonstrate ROI. If they put in the resources and released Foundry, anything that happens next would be impossible to pin directly on Foundry.
Business goes down? Maybe it would have gone down faster without Foundry. Maybe Foundry annoyed people.
Business stays the same? Again, maybe Foundry was a hedge against revenue loss. Maybe it was a waste of time.
Business improves? Maybe it's due to Foundry! Or maybe the latest superhero movies increased revenue and Foundry was just a drain.
While I believe Foundry would make a big difference, there is no real way I could ever prove it to businessmen.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
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My characters
main reason I consider CO dead and have not bothered to play in years. the comic movie craze has been in high gear for a while now, and CoHs death gave every reason for PWE to pump tons into this game to bring out its fullest potential, but nope in classic PWE fashion they would rather milk a sick cow till its dead, then give it some vet love and make that trickle of milk become galleons.
Have to spend money to make it, and CO aint gonna make it if PWE wont spend it first. Just buying the rights wasnt enough PWE. Put up or shut down I say.
If comic books themselves are a declining medium despite movies about those same exact characters being hugely popular it seems odd to assume that an MMO should be expected to do better.
There are, have been, three comic book superhero style MMOs. They have all struggled or failed financially. Between them they have invested many millions of dollars in their products...and then failed to go beyond being niche games.
Superheroes are mainstream in movies. They are niche in MMOs.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I enjoyed DCUO when I played it, but the issue I had with it was the controls. I was never good at using a keyboard for movement and since I have mild but premature arthritis in my hands (I'm not that old, but I'm a retired vet with a lot of nerve problems from a spinal injury) I had a difficult time playing it. (its been better since my last surgery...hmmm, maybe I'll try DCUO again in the future).
Since CoX is gone CO is the only superhero game with its own "universe". That's a more important thing to me than in may be to others. (it also has the benefit here of less XxBatmanxX characters running around.) There's a lot of lore from the tabletop games, much more than the game taps into.
Is it the best superhero game? I'd think that depends on your preferences, and there isn't much competition. But I'd love to see City of Heroes come back.
Because the answers are coming from people who are here, and not at those other ones at the moment. Otherwise, why would they waste valuable play time hanging out at these boards?
I don't think the foundry would help much unless they made 2 categories:
Because you're going to get number 2 regardless. I'd rather be able to find a decent mission than have to crawl through dozens of powerlevelling nonsense to find one.
Given how the only other existing one is DCUO... quoting Wonderella: Default is the best fault to have.
While I don't think Valiance is a threat to CO (gameplay-wise it's a big step backwards), should they ever release a mission editor then CO will need to seriously up its game. You know what I'm talking about.
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I've already explained STO foundry missions give no XP. why should a CO foundry be different?
I know, and I don't have much faith in people not building missions with a billion enemies to be farmed for that. Maybe its just paranoia on my part, but I can't help but recall the horrendous amount of pointless missions like that in CoX. I wouldn't have cared if they were separated from the ones where there was some effort to make it a story worth playing.
You might be surprised, but many people don't really dig CO power structure and the game balance in tatters and liked CoH/V dual powersets style.
If someone actually did a game structured like CoH/V, but without annoying recharges, with energy management more like CO, with access to travel powers, and with up to date graphics? That actually could earn following.
Having that said, Valiance isn't finished, is far from being completed and there were only rumors about it maybe being given a mission editor in the future.
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Hmmm...I wasn't aware of that. Its been awhile since I've played STO. Given what you and Gradi have said, perhaps a foundry would be nice in CO, then. I wouldn't mind having other ways to level characters story wise, to be honest. Its nice to try new character builds, but after awhile the whole fight the new purple gang/go to Canada/desert/ etc gets old.
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Now see, this is where I often wonder if those who thought some of this, actually played the game.
Annoying recharges? Didn't have annoying recharges on my characters. Why? Because I picked the right powers/enhancements.
Annoying energy management? Right enhancements and power choices.
All the same things I have to do in CO right now. Grab an Energy Unlock (notice how people tend to grab the same couple...so CoH having just one isn't much different).
All CO has is Maintain/Charge Attacks and it it gets to the point people spam the same attack
Could care less about the graphics, what I care about is an art style I like visually. I think most other players are the same.
For people like me the choices have always been limited. Even back in the days before MMO's. So CO fills a certain niche, and that's a good thing.
I keep trying to like DCUO and I just don't like the game. I
CO is pretty open in those areas, but has an issue with good content. So I guess it's just about which of the two games each person prefers.
But not in the early gameplay which makes for a quite slow early experience. Worked quite well as a barrier in making me stick for longer with CoH/V, because slow early gameplay is not exactly how mmos are made these days.
This is somewhat a reverse of what is in CO and DCUO.
I could deal with its, but why when two other supergero mmos had this early tutorial-like part of the game being faster?
That's actually typical for older mmos, not only CoH/V, but also older WoW and Lineage II had it.
Eventually WoW also did change it and it was improved for low levels.
The engine is significantly more advanced than STO's, and people have done some astounding stuff with it.
Strangely, the rewards seem more sensibly designed in STO.
Examples:
In STO, you can rotate objects you place, but only around z axis.
In NW, you can rotate objects in all directions.
NW has teleporters, linking different parts of a map. This can be used to create some 'game logic'
STO doesn't. ...
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
seriously. A barriar you say. Look you either started in CoHs early days back when virtually no active action rpg type MMO really existed yet, or you started later when they made it so bloody easy to lvl up the first 10 or so lvls to get on the path to feeling like a more potent super being.
Even prior to the release of the sewer trial, it was very very common for pugs often composed of newb and vet alike to rush through the sewers in AP and being in the double digits before being done.
Especially so because of people like myself who loved to play mentor to new comers. Bentley Berkeley of virtue would regularly hang in AP and join sewer teams whenever they where down to a spot or two, and then be the hidden superman among them who would bring the fire power needed to just let the team keep rolling through till we would reach skyway and everyone would be well into their teens.
and really the only people who ever called it city of cool downs where the year one 5 dmg and 1 accuracy slotters. the builders of glass cannons who had to have the holy trinity to survive.
Not to mention that didnt even exist if you where a blaster or scrapper. you know the two active dps ats from year one. Ofcourse tanks and supporters would have down time inherently in how their powers worked, to help them manage what was going on around them better by not being expected to spam abilities endlessly.
The action ATs had more then enough attacks and low enough cool downs you really never had lack of something to click. and only the worst builds didnt get fitness in their builds, something that after inherent fitness was added really removed any ground for the oh its hard to manage energy argument.
It wasn't really that difficult to level to ten in CoX. I actually didn't like it much when they were giving out jetpacks to low levels. It made it feel cheap. But then I enjoyed finally being able to get a travel power.
This was one of the worst things. Level 14 travel powers. Nothing more heroic than wishing you had a bicycle to get around faster.
I also never made it past level 20 in that game, partly because I like alts, and partly because the slow/boring combat. I wish I was an old grizzled vet who knew how to slot everything perfectly and not have to deal with cooldowns, but you can't expect new people to have all this experience.
^Pretty much this.
CoV/H vets may see it through the rose-colored glasses, but the game was actually dated by modern standards and eventual new players trying the game had no real obligation to give any damn to the old school when they have newer games to play.
CoV/H had old and tried audience of vets, but it wasn't exactly successful in gaining and keeping a lot of new players, and it went through the server merges.
No matter how great the game might be in later levels, I don't have to give any damn to this fact if it fails to keep me interested early.
This is pretty much my feeling on CoX. Champs was a bit better gameplay to me, but it's still got tons of weaknesses. That said, waiting for Cryptic to just unveil CO with the Neverwinter engine so it can be even better.
>_> Seriously, if I wanted fast-paced combat that revolves around button combos that can be spammed, I'd play DMC and not an MMO..
No rose colored glasses here, but CoH ended with you being able to get a travel power at level 4. Which in CO, first travel power is available at 6.
CoH server merges? They made it so European and American players could be on any server, no longer limited to NA servers and Euro Servers. They then also added the Exalted Server. I wouldn't call that server merges.
Level 6 you say? So basically just after the tutorial OR if you skip the tutorial..........immediately
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Then I went out to fight bad guys. I got to fire a lightning blast - then punch people while I waited for the lightning to come off cooldown.
After some boredom and disappointment, I left the game, never to return. It's no good telling me, "Well, if you just stick it out, the game gets really good later!" Somehow, I can't imagine the game getting better enough to take that early taste out of my mouth.
I came to CO after it went F2P, as well. Couldn't start off with a Tempest, sadly, as those cost money; but the toons I could start off with, were able to use their powers from the moment they came into existence. What you did while building up energy was to use a power that built up energy! (As I recall, my first toon was an Inferno. All of his attacks involved fire, even the one he used when he was exhausted.)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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one thing i wish co had could be a mid speed "sprint" power, regular speed is really slow and a lot of travel powers feel floaty and can be hard to use indoors, especially acrobatics.. a mid level power would be nice.
If the feel of gameplay doesn't cut it from the get go, then it doesn't cut it. Period. It is entirely valid to judge a game based on the feel of its controls and gameplay mechanics (based on personal opinion) from the start without an extended amount of play time.
I don't think Jon wasn't saying that the overall quality of CoX was bad based on just how the gameplay mechanics felt. What he was saying was valid in contrast to CO's combat; CoX's combat felt objectively slower with all the waiting time for even the most basic attacks to recharge. I already had 3 level 50 toons in CoX prior to coming over to CO and when I returned a year later, the constant recharge waiting did annoy me so I can understand where Jon or anyone with the same feelings on the matter is coming from.
No it's not. It's just not. It's barely experiencing the game at all. As I've also said before, it would be like judging CO by just the tutorial and the first two Purple Gang missions. It's just not enough play time to form a valid opinion.
For me, it was too little, too late. I did go back to try out the new stuff. The tutorial was much better, way more exciting than fighting just a bunch of thugs here and there (I may be misremembering, it was a long time ago). I don't doubt that they changed the travel power to level 4 because Champs gave it to you so early, and because Champs' tutorial was a bit more exciting. (I don't fault them for it at all, stuff like that is always fair game, I believe.)
But anyway, I already had dozens of characters by the time CoH changed, and I liked the gameplay, character building, and graphic style better here better. Coupled with the fact that my friend roped me into an AE mission to powerlevel me and I fell through the floor immediately and could do nothing, there wasn't too much reason for me to give it another shake.
He still makes the same point, though. If a game doesn't hook you right away, you're not likely to stay, especially if it's free to play. I joined way before it went free, so I had that month I'd already payed for. At that point you're already invested and committed. And also I had real life friends playing, so it was a reason to stay for a while. I was also bored to death of WoW at the time.
If I'd joined during the free to play, though, I'd probably have stayed for a good long while, anyway, just because of the genre. I think the paid MMO I bought that lasted the least amount of time for me was Conan. I think I bought the collector's edition and played a whole week before it bored me.
I didn't dislike CoH when I was playing it. It was pretty much the same kind of MMO stuff that I'd been used to (except not having an auto-attack was just really weird to me), but at the same time, it didn't really WOW me in too many areas. Costume creator was great, and it's the best time I'd ever had in any game as a healer (I never roll healers, ever; I have 80 DPS characters, and nothing else, in my roster in Champs). It had its good moments, but nothing ever compelled me to keep going.
Wow I kinda rambled there. TL;DR, firetrucks are cool.