Is CO the best Super Hero MMO ?

neverwinter1973

Compared to that other Super Hero MMO I used to play, CO is better in my opinion. That " other " Super Hero MMO kinda falls flat after their level cap. They have a lack of missions so you pretty much repeat the same content over and over again which you have to pay for. CO seems to have quite a bit of missions from what I've seen so far.

That " other " Super Hero MMO isn't solo friendly like CO. I like an MMO that allows you to group up or solo instead of only being able to progress in a group.

The character customization is far superior and unmatched compared to that " other " Super Hero MMO. Not only can you customize your appearance in detail but you can customize your combat and powers. That's something I haven't experienced in any MMO other than CO at the moment.

vorshoth

CO has its flaws, and parts of it are starting to show their age. But I concur, and say that it's the best superhero mmo currently in the market for capturing the ethos of 'play as the hero you want to be'.

The others out there tend to either have you play as canonical characters established in real comics, or have you basically be their manservant/sidekick's sidekick.

To be honest though, Champions appears to be the only one based on a tabletop game, and I think that's the root of why it has that unique selling point, from those roots.
If say, someone made a Mutants and Masterminds or GURPS Supers MMO (do not ask me how a GURPS MMO would work because it would be NUTS I feel), then maybe Champions Online could maybe have some competition. But to be honest, CO has it's niche.

I personally would love for it to have a competitor that is roughly in the same 'be your own hero' genre thing. Adversity prompts innovation, which while we do have can never have enough challenges added to it to boost the creative juices.

(expects that somewhere in an office a dev hates me for saying they need more challenge to their work when I know nothing of how complex or awesome their job is)

flyingfinn

Yes.
/10chars

kojirohellfire

At the moment? It is. Too bad it's the red-headed step-child of the Cryptic games. I can only hope that will change some day. Despite being just one new story arc, Steel Crusade has managed to pull some players back from hiatus.

meedacthunist

There are no other mmos in this genre comparable to CO since the CoV/H demise, so... Yes.

Two others either aren't traditional mmos, or have some fatal flaws.

They situation may change in the future, but for the time being CO isn't exactly surrounded with competition.

chaelk

yes but considering the competition,

markhawkman

yeah, DCUO is kinda fun, but... you're a sidekick. Oh and you'll get punked by the "Real" heroes and villains occasionally.

spinnytop

It's the only (superhero) MMO I still play, so yes it is.

zahinder

CO is a terrible game that was never maintained or polished or built as it should be.

At this point, the lack of attention pretty much speaks volumes about how little regard Cryptic has for this game.

That said, the other options manage to be even more horrible.

So, yes, this is the best superhero mmo.

rianfrost

neverwinter1973 wrote: »

Compared to that other Super Hero MMO I used to play, CO is better in my opinion. That " other " Super Hero MMO kinda falls flat after their level cap. They have a lack of missions so you pretty much repeat the same content over and over again which you have to pay for. CO seems to have quite a bit of missions from what I've seen so far.

That " other " Super Hero MMO isn't solo friendly like CO. I like an MMO that allows you to group up or solo instead of only being able to progress in a group.

The character customization is far superior and unmatched compared to that " other " Super Hero MMO. Not only can you customize your appearance in detail but you can customize your combat and powers. That's something I haven't experienced in any MMO other than CO at the moment.

currently co is the best on the market, it was not, but it has been for about a year. the other never got the customization thing right, the concepts you can make are limited,at start you can make a spandexer or a power armor character, martial arts have nothing and sectional beast parts are far too limited, and the tap based combat seems to push more the idea of superheroes as brawlers and not using their powers as much. yeah powers give theme to your powers, a nature marital artist makes tendrils on the ground and the shuriken look like plant projectiles, but it seems co makes fights faster and mroe based around your powers seems fun. so yeah, against a incredibly small field, its the best out there for my tastes, but it still has a long way to go...maybe we are heading there now, we will see if things continue. REALLY wish that midway had not died and Hero not been killed, mmos dont work for superheroes.
I will note that this is the currently existing crop, i have hopes for cot, havent followed the other 2 as strongly, but really if a super hero mmo with acceptable customization that actually has content made for it comes around, co would return to distant second where it had been. obviously a s startup with volunteers, i have questions about longevity, but since it can play even with servers down, it beats every other mmo out there by default.

chalupaoffury

Yes. Granted, you'll find biased answers here.

Our competition isn't so great, and having had about 10 seconds of interaction with one of CoT's devs (trolling CO users on an article about us, to drum up publicity in about as unprofessional a manner as possible) I hesitate to say we're going to stay that way. I'd been sketch about that project from the start, but I've never seen a "game dev" act like that. She was worse than Phil Fish, and that project is gonna lack what made CoX so good in the first place: That incredible world, and those fantastic NPCs.

Rumor has it that CoX is possibly going to make a return. Which A: I'll believe when I see, and B: Valve is rumored to be involved, which might make it worth it if it does happen. Even still, I'll probably keep CO as my main mmo. CoX was great, but I prefer the combat and customization here. Imo, we've always had better gameplay. I wish we'd take some lessons from CoX about how the world was built, and the quality of the writing, though.

Sadly, if it's not orcs and wizards, it doesn't seem to stick around. Friggin EQ and WoW ruined mmos for us in that regard, for some stupid reason the public thinks an mmo isn't serious unless it's got elves in it.

jonesing4

zahinder wrote: »

CO is a terrible game that was never maintained or polished or built as it should be.

At this point, the lack of attention pretty much speaks volumes about how little regard Cryptic has for this game.

That said, the other options manage to be even more horrible.

So, yes, this is the best superhero mmo.

Yet here you still are, trolling the forums. You have the saddest life.

kojirohellfire

chalupaoffury wrote: »

Yes. Granted, you'll find biased answers here.

Our competition isn't so great, and having had about 10 seconds of interaction with one of CoT's devs (trolling CO users on an article about us, to drum up publicity in about as unprofessional a manner as possible) I hesitate to say we're going to stay that way. I'd been sketch about that project from the start, but I've never seen a "game dev" act like that. She was worse than Phil Fish, and that project is gonna lack what made CoX so good in the first place: That incredible world, and those fantastic NPCs.

Golden ***** has nothing to do with CoT except pissing off all the people who're actually working on it. She has her own delusional project called "Heroes and Villains" which so far still only consists of concept art from her Poser software.

sistersilicon

chalupaoffury wrote: »

Our competition isn't so great, and having had about 10 seconds of interaction with one of CoT's devs (trolling CO users on an article about us, to drum up publicity in about as unprofessional a manner as possible) I hesitate to say we're going to stay that way. I'd been sketch about that project from the start, but I've never seen a "game dev" act like that. She was worse than Phil Fish, and that project is gonna lack what made CoX so good in the first place: That incredible world, and those fantastic NPCs.

"She"? Do you mean Golden Girl? Because she has nothing whatsoever to do with Missing Worlds Media and City of Titans. She has her own project called Heroes and Villains, although it only seems to produce slapdash concept art.

EDIT: Dammit! Ninja'd by Kojiro!

gaarafrednorrisp

The Nightmare continually voices how much he despises CoT being brought up due to misinformation surrounding it.. AND DAMMIT, YOU PROVE WHY! -.- GG has nothing to do with it, as both above me have said... And she's known for spreading lies and slander about CoT as well as acting like a "voice of the Devs" for it in order to give them bad publicity. Granted, she's calmed down over the months.. but still.

coneuronia

Things i preferred in CoX:

Instancing: Being able to grab my second account and just PL on my own instance in a room full of purple mobs was awesome. Doing the same for my friend so he could have a 50 in notime was also great.

Purples: They could drop from any mob level 47+ so gives another reason to farm.

Group content: We have Alerts and rampages, but outside of Apocalypse Aversion, I haven't seen any lengthy content that needs a group. Rampages do require multiple people but they are over in 20 minutes or so.

Variety in zones/early experiences: Yeah, you end up getting the Jewel of Hera about 1,000 times but you could go to several zones, a lot of zones in fact, throughout your career, Made the game more fun.

PvP: I've had fun in Zombie Apocalypse and some fun in B.A.S.H. but I miss the 8 v 8s, the super fast buffing and healing and the team rivalries.

Things I prefer in CO:

The Market: It's a lot more fire and forget compared to CoX, where I had to re-list stuff because people flipped or whatever...and there isn't a lot of variance in prices. Stuff is either "Expensive" (1,000G+) or "Decent" (200-700G) with no crazy prices.

The Costume Creator, Excepting Auras: I despise the Aura system here, it should have been account wide so all my characters can use them, but the face sliders are great. I also love capes early on and there's a good variety of stuff out there.

The Freeform System: This is obviously the game's biggest draws. I like making concept builds come alive and though you are "boxed in" by "needing" an active defense, a heal, an active offense, a passive...you still have a lot of room to grow.

Overall Champions is a lot of fun. If I could have my own instanced missions I could reset for loot/PLing it would be awesome.

Oh, and to hell with Golden Girl, what an annoying player she was...bleuargh.

jarfaru

I've played those other games and they don't compare. At least in this game you are a superhero of your making and not playing a known one or sidekick. And it play's like a pc mmo.

zahinder

jonesing4 wrote: »

Yet here you still are, trolling the forums. You have the saddest life.

There are a lot of really significant flaws with this game, which is disappointing, because it could be really awesome. But it's still better than the alternatives.

Tell me how that constitutes a troll when the OP is asking folks' opinions on the game.


Also, 'still here,' actually I pop on about once a month to see if anything has changed. Or slightly more frequently... you see, for some strange reason the Neverwinter forum login doesn't work right on an iPhone, while the CO one does. So I usually log in on CO, then switch over to NW... but occasionally something catches my eye.

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mbaucco

The best things about CO is the character creator and the freeform system. The lore is also pretty good, but I'm not that crazy about how little open world content there is, and the instanced missions are really buggy and scale poorly for solo play. I love the idea of vehicles too, but the implementation is a bit weird (why can you take your spaceship into the Forum Malvanum? :P )

That being said, the only things in DCUO's favor is the lore and the travel powers. I guess the graphics are pretty good too. I haven't played Marvel Heroes, but why would I want to play that when I can't make my own hero?

I have to admit that I'm hoping CoT wil bring back the things I loved so much in CoH such as giant monster attacks and alien invasions that everyone could do, and I know a lot of people like villain play as well. I did love that they added reformed villains and evil heroes at the end, that was kind of cool.

I'd really love to see some improvements as well. Dynamic content would be awesome, or hero/villain open world missions. There's a lot of things that could make a superhero mmoprg feel more immersive.

cybersoldier1981

CO is the best superhero MMORPG, which right now is like being the manliest person in your house... if you lived with a female cat.

tfavsb10

No, its just other then CO all you have is A. DCU or B. Marvel online, without COH, I can't find a single Super hero mmo thats not in development, thier are juts not that many super hero mmos.

bluhman

I'm not sure what answer you were expecting from people who predominantly play CO.

markhawkman

Marvel's best super game is probably Avengers Alliance. But it's not an MMO. It's more of a solo game where you can ask other players for assists. The only real team content are group bosses which are a special event thing. And I once soloed one.... Granted that is an epic feat of strength, and I only managed it once, but doing 50% or more in one go is challenging but not too hard.

*looks on DA* Hunh I forgot to upload Bastion's greatest hits. time to fix that.

gaarafrednorrisp

....How on earth did you forget Ultimate Alliance, Hawk?

markhawkman

never played it. *looks it up* Oh well, that is even further from an MMO, 1: it's an old game, and 2: it was a console game. did it even have online play? (I'm not making any claims about it being good or bad, I don't know there)

Avengers Alliance is something that continue to be actively improved.

angelphoenix12

zahinder wrote: »

There are a lot of really significant flaws with this game, which is disappointing, because it could be really awesome. But it's still better than the alternatives.

Tell me how that constitutes a troll when the OP is asking folks' opinions on the game.


Also, 'still here,' actually I pop on about once a month to see if anything has changed. Or slightly more frequently... you see, for some strange reason the Neverwinter forum login doesn't work right on an iPhone, while the CO one does. So I usually log in on CO, then switch over to NW... but occasionally something catches my eye.

The reason some people think it is trolling is becuase people like us cannot give out opinion since it is not "Champions is the best eva" type of reply.
And for the question no I do not think it is the best out there, it is the only one worth a weekend try.

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spinnytop

Okay let's drop the fanboying and be honest: CO is the best Superhero MMO for you if costume and power customization is the most important part of the experience for you. It also has really good travel powers which are fully integrated into combat.

Otherwise the combat is your standard tab-target style encounters that many mmos will have, and even then they're generally less intricate and involved than what you would find in more high-action tab-target mmos, so if you're looking for a more action-based game you'll want to look at one of the other superhero mmos out there. The action in CO is generally very casual and involves a lot of mindless spamming (of course some people like that).

gandales

spinnytop wrote: »

Okay let's drop the fanboying and be honest: CO is the best Superhero MMO for you if costume and power customization is the most important part of the experience for you. It also has really good travel powers which are fully integrated into combat.

Otherwise the combat is your standard tab-target style encounters that many mmos will have, and even then they're generally less intricate and involved than what you would find in more high-action tab-target mmos, so if you're looking for a more action-based game you'll want to look at one of the other superhero mmos out there. The action in CO is generally very casual and involves a lot of mindless spamming (of course some people like that).

Indeed, I still like more CO combat over DCUO but it is a matter of opinion.

Regardless of the technical details, DCUO and MH are better than CO since they are getting frequent updates and advertisement and CO is not.

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monaahiru

CO is the BEST Mahoushoujo MMO I ever know.

kojirohellfire

spinnytop wrote: »

Okay let's drop the fanboying and be honest: CO is the best Superhero MMO for you if costume and power customization is the most important part of the experience for you. It also has really good travel powers which are fully integrated into combat.

Why would anything else matter?

rianfrost

spinnytop wrote: »

Okay let's drop the fanboying and be honest: CO is the best Superhero MMO for you if costume and power customization is the most important part of the experience for you. It also has really good travel powers which are fully integrated into combat.

.

works for me, but then again, since co got my cash and dc didnt,so works for them too. also im pretty sure calling me a fanboy for co would cause terra to have a stroke :P I wish dcou weren't so limited, funny part is that ti got worse after beta, they originally had some beast details be parts you could select in the open beta but when the full game came out, if you wanted a tail, you had to go full fursuit in the skin category..this in a continuity with the weird aliens of the lantern corps...

markhawkman

gandales wrote: »

Indeed, I still like more CO combat over DCUO but it is a matter of opinion.

Regardless of the technical details, DCUO and MH are better than CO since they are getting frequent updates and advertisement and CO is not.

Agreed, I really can't say I liked how DCUO's combat system worked. the actual powers were easy enough to use, it was the weapon combos that were annoying, and they were half of combat... I still remember reading one of my weapons skills and thinking "I have to leftclick 5 times then hold to activate this skill in combat? REALLY???" Granted some were a lot more intuitive than that. But that one was really bad.

And like Gradii pointed out, you're a sidekick. Hero side you choose either Batman, Superman, or Wonder Woman as your mentor as part of the tutorial. And they basically tell you what to do the rest of the game. I must admit that I like how you can explore a bunch of DC locales, and interact with DC comics characters. It's especially fun on the villain side. But, the novelty of that is limited. (Honestly the reason I quit DCUO was that thing where their account server got hacked. My password got changed and I was never able to login again, OR get any sort of assistance from customer support.)

sterga

gradii wrote: »

Marvel heroes is not the same as an MMO, its a diablo like game.

ARPG. The A stands for Action. That's what those types of games are called.


You are a hero in DCUO. Do you really think Batman, Superman, or Wonder Woman is going to spend time helping some putz? Having a mentor does not make you a sidekick, it just means you have a lot to learn. You know, going with that story thing the game has. Clearly, your character is powerful enough that the heroes don't have to sit there and babysit you 24/7 like they do with actual sidekicks.

If giving you mission makes you a side kick, then everyone in this game is a sidekick as well. Maybe you didn't notice all of those mission the Champions gave you?

zahinder

Or how the entire starting mission of the game leads up to you helping deliver Ironclad to the enemy ship.

In other words, you start off as being nothing more than a plot device to get the NPC into the action.

Now, mind you, DCUO is much more in your face about it. In CO you have more missions unrelated to Champions or UNITY, but you still have a lot that are.

The degree to which many people complain about it is a bit overstated, IMO.

artmanpwe

@ the subject question:

In the current market, I feel that CO is the best one.

For all time? I still have to grudgingly give the nod to COH. No matter how I may have felt about that game, or how much I loved CO (especially since I could get in on the ground floor of it), when you compare peaks, COH had the numbers hands down.

superstar78

No. Not even remotely close. I like CO for what it is but this game doesn't hold a candle to DCUO.

I always find it interesting that these types of discussions always ignore the positive features of DCUO and gloss over CO's negatives. Another thing I find interesting is that you NEVER find these types of discussions on DCUO forums. The only time I see CO mentioned is when people complain about names being unavailable, which, btw, is such a wonderful feature here. I'm thankful that Cryptic allowed me to name my character regardless if it's been taken.

If I had to sum it up, I'd say DCUO is created by people who love the Superhero genre. CO is created by people who are somewhat familiar with Superheroes, maybe they've seen a few movies and picked up a few trades but there's waaaaaaay too much missing from this game to make me believe Cryptic loves the genre (sorry, but even Tumerboy said he wasn't a fan of Superheroes).

Look at the end of the day, are you having fun here? What difference does it make proclaiming which game is the greatest? Why do you need to validate your opinion? Just enjoy both games for what they offer. A rising tide lifts all boats.

zahinder

The power design in DCUO is utterly baffling.

Ice is default/main tank? There's no Brick powerset?

Man wut?

The travel powers are awesome, as is the integration of travel 'moves.'

The controls are, again, utterly wonky (at least for PC play). And chat... Uh.

DCUO is better supported and the graphics are awesome, though.

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markhawkman

superstar78 wrote: »

No. Not even remotely close. I like CO for what it is but this game doesn't hold a candle to DCUO.

I always find it interesting that these types of discussions always ignore the positive features of DCUO and gloss over CO's negatives.

Please elaborate, a statement like this sounds like it should be the summary of an essay of at least 3 paragraphs.

If I had to sum it up, I'd say DCUO is created by people who love the Superhero genre. CO is created by people who are somewhat familiar with Superheroes, maybe they've seen a few movies and picked up a few trades but there's waaaaaaay too much missing from this game to make me believe Cryptic loves the genre (sorry, but even Tumerboy said he wasn't a fan of Superheroes).

Which might explain why Tumerboy/Tacofangs works in STO now. :P

Anyways, as someone with some familiarity with other Superhero comics other than DC.... It feels very superhero to me, NOT DC, but superhero. I constantly find myself drawing parallels to Marvel characters, and sometimes Image or Darkhorse.

gradii wrote: »

its more in the presentation. CO does a far better job of making you feel respected by the NPCs, although it obviously goes a bit too far.

I still prefer that to having mentors who don't seem to care.

Yeah, CO has a bunch of things where people go, "please help us mighty hero!" whereas in DCUO it was more like, "Oh, you're with Superman? I guess you can help out."

rianfrost wrote: »

I will note that this is the currently existing crop, i have hopes for cot,

If you mean that Clash of Titans game Blizzard was tinkering with.... that died while it was still in the concept stage.

dseaver

Out of 67 MMOs I've played, CO ranks as my #1.

My list is:
#1: Champions online
#2: Valina World of Warcrft
#3: Guild Wars 2

etc...

Towards the beginning of 2010s, (2008-2011) the recession in the economy began to affect the MMO development world in a drastic way. The game developers' fetishistic obsession with balance began to taint their gaming philosophies forever (Fun Vs. Practicality). This was the moment where the segregation among the gaming community became acute (Rich vs Poor).

The two balances the developers constantly struggled against were:
1. Class balance
2. Pay 2 win balance

Champions online integrated the c-store in a very mild way, allowing hard working(in real life) casual players to have fun with their extra money without sabotaging the gameplay through pure pay 2 win.

It's also one of the last generation MMOs to embrace a complete freedom and the chaos that came along with it.

In other words, developers just don't make MMOs like they used to anymore.

That is why Champions Online is so precious and still going strong despite its age.

sistersilicon

markhawkman wrote: »

Yeah, CO has a bunch of things where people go, "please help us mighty hero!" whereas in DCUO it was more like, "Oh, you're with Superman? I guess you can help out."

I think the weight of existing lore is the unsolvable problem of DCUO. Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman cast shadows so hyumangous big, you can't possibly get out from under them. Meanwhile, nobody outside of PnP circles ever heard of the Champions, and CoH built their lore completely from scratch. Cryptic never had to worry about undercutting Defender or Statesman. And, to be honest, Marvel wouldn't have this problem, either. They spread the love around so much better than DC that you could spend hours arguing over who their Big 3 is.

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markhawkman

gradii wrote: »

and this explains why I like the champions universe for my characters. more room when there arent 800 pound Kryptonian/Bat-people/Wonder Women in the setting.

(yeesh, that way of phrasing it brings some mildly disturbing and rather silly images to mind)

Yeah, it's almost like DC is scared to do things without the JLA as the center. I mean... the Young Justice TV show was setup with them as junior members of the JLA.

It's not that the JLA took center stage, it's just that the core premise was that "the team" were a satellite group affiliated with the JLA, though not full members.(at least not at first)

I had a lot of awesomeness. Like seeing Wonder Girl slug it out with Lobo. But the JLA are THE core team of Superheroes in DC. And the big 3 are the leaders of the JLA.

spinnytop

markhawkman wrote: »

If you mean that Clash of Titans game Blizzard was tinkering with.... that died while it was still in the concept stage.

City of Titans

vorshoth

The strength Champions Online has right now is you can play nearly ANY kind of hero you can think of, even outside ghe superhero genre, and the power set is generally wide enough to permit flexibility. I would say DCUO does this too.
So if you want to be a french speaking naval captain modelled after Napoleon who uses a saber and a flintlock, yes you can.
If you want to be a arcane monstrosity, fusing the aura of a cat onto a human, creating the most evil of beings, a catgirl, then yes, you can.
If you want to shoot lasers out of your face and call yourself Shoop Dawg, yes, you can, and you will probably Da Whoop.

It would be interesting if we started up another thread and each wrote a single feature we would consider essential to a superhero game, and see what the common consensus is and then compare that to what is on the market or used the data to create a survey of what players value and get people to fill it in.

akaara1

I've recently come back to champions because it's solo friendly and you can do missions fairly quickly. Some are lengthy but I just avoid those. Customizing is endless in powers and costumes. I've lately been really enjoying my stealth character, she just rocks!

I work so much that it's nice to log in for 1/2 or an hour and feel like I had some fun. Fun is what mmo's are about.

I used to play LOTRO but it's too bogged down and takes like 5 hours and lots of specific planning to do some of the raids. Mounted combat and difficulty of raids ruined it for me.

Used to play The Secret World until they added AGIES or whatever it is where you had to slot specific things (forget what they are called) to go through the armour before you could kill them. That ruined a nice game for me by making it completely cumbersome.

So I am enjoying champions again and have played it on and off since getting a lifetime sub when it first came out. To my delight, when I came back they had vehicles and streamlined crafting, and added alerts. Loving the fire and ice and gravitar.

nepht

Champions Online is by far the best super hero mmo out there the others dont come close to being as much fun.

reiwulf

Like always it's a matter of opinion, I don't think it's the best superhero MMO now, but I think it has its strong points: mainly character customization, freeforms (although I don't have a FF slot) and the RP community.