Eh, it's hard to embellish fantastic looks and all with that style.
But I could manage as long as we didn't have those god-awful animations from TSW.
True, true. Someone else would definitely have to do the animations.
In regards to fantastic looks. I see the potential decent lighting (and shadow) has in the Vibora Bay area of this game and I have to say, assuming a player could run it, you can have some outstanding costume textures (and dynamic screenies) with TSW's lighting system.
Thing is, developers who are hanging out on the forums, especially during working hours, are developers who aren't, you know, developing. I'd rather have the reality than the perception.
le.
@Well, in the case of david, i did mention that he was on on Saturday nights, not sure what that said for his or my social life, but that's not really working time, plus they did produce more, a lot more than this game ever got, an almost comical amount more of missions zones costumes, you name it really, so that really isnt a statement that matches the reality. if we were getting no communication but a lot of new zones/missions/events, sure, but a bunch of short events with limited variety or new art...that just doesn't support your statement. we have neither communication nor much content.
That's the thing they are understaffed by cryptic's/pwe's doing nothing else.
as far as comparing city of co there is no comparison because thedevs on city of did/does care of their product and it showed due to communication and constant updates of, where as cryptic dropped this game and ran to fix sto and now this is a fact.
So to say cryptic does not care about this game is truthful and reasonable because if cryptic did care this game would not be in this sorry state. We would have a full standard level 50, more zones, more powers, and more of everything, and until this game gets recused like their other 2 games I will not believe Pwe or cryptic cares about this game.
You are comparing individual devs in COH to development and publishing studios in CO. Not a particularly fair comparison IMO. If you are going to use CO's studios as your comparison then you should be using COH's as well. CO's publisher cares enough to keep the game running (for now at least).
You are comparing individual devs in COH to development and publishing studios in CO. Not a particularly fair comparison IMO. If you are going to use CO's studios as your comparison then you should be using COH's as well. CO's publisher cares enough to keep the game running (for now at least).
This is getting absurd. I loved COHCOV as well. This article is really lacking. If I worked for an mmo rag (I don't) I'd point out the disparities in terms of spending on CO vs STO in the context of Season 9. That's the problem.
This author's "it can't be replaced so I'll hate it's succesors/competitor's" article is a waste of time.
Atari, bad timing, PWE, and bad timing did this. Not the loss of COX for heaven's sake. And a lack
of reliable 3rd party backing as it pertains too how we each view our interests (gaming in this case).
This author's "it can't be replaced so I'll hate it's succesors/competitor's" article is a waste of time.
Except the writer DIDNT hate on this game. She admitted she doesnt like it AS MUCH as COX, but she still LIKES it more than DCUO or Marvel. Not liking something AS MUCH as you like something else does not mean you HATE it. At least, not to a sane person.
You are comparing individual devs in COH to development and publishing studios in CO. Not a particularly fair comparison IMO. If you are going to use CO's studios as your comparison then you should be using COH's as well. CO's publisher cares enough to keep the game running (for now at least).
Actually I was comparing 3 dev teams deving city of champions, when I mean 2 for champions I mean the first set of devs left this game so this game got new devs. I am sure you know cryptic made city of, maybe it was this expectation that I and my friends thought cryptic would have leanred its lesion and sone better by this game.
I rather liked post 3 - that phrase is one of my pet peeves as well.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Except the writer DIDNT hate on this game. She admitted she doesnt like it AS MUCH as COX, but she still LIKES it more than DCUO or Marvel. Not liking something AS MUCH as you like something else does not mean you HATE it. At least, not to a sane person.
Does CO need or would it be better with bigger updates? Definitely, I doubt any of us are arguing that fact. It still doesn't stop a biased article from being biased.
And yes, at least DCUO is getting updates... but bad updates can turn away players just as easily (if not more so) than no updates. Just look at SWG for a good example of that.
And thats the big difference: DCUO is actually getting regular updates. This game isnt.
Honest question, what's your definition of regular updates? Because Champs has been getting updated regularly for over a year after the dry spell we had.
I read the article.. and I don't see her bashing CO at all. She misses her old game and went looking for a new game. She hates DCUO and really wants to like Champions but she's hesitant because this game gets little attention from it's parent company.
That sounds spot on to me. The sad part is when COX shutdown Champions had a prime chance to add some very loyal gamers to it's fan base. A community of gamers that would probably be so desperate for a new outlet, that they'd regularly pay to do so.
The ball was dropped on the opportunity.
Not matter which way you slice it PWE/Cryptic totally fumbled it. How long has this game gone on without a single significant update? I don't mean vehicles or alerts. I mean an actual fully developed update. I think it's been two years. Two entire years.
Yeah, I was actually pretty shocked at how Cryptic/PW really didn't do anything to entice CoXers here after CoX shut down. I was really expecting something big on their part. Of course, that was back in my wide-eyed naive days of CO.
They forget all about the time that issue releases crawled to once every 6 months or worse. Remember "Along Came a Spider?"
You actually just helped make the author's point.
During the time you're referring to, Cryptic still owned CoH. They pulled most of the Dev team to work on what later became CO. So yes, content updates did slow to a crawl. And Cryptic was directly responsible for that.
This is a pattern Cryptic has repeated several times. They did it again to Champions, then Star Trek, and I'm sure if PWE doesn't force them not to they'll do it to Neverwinter when they start working on their next big project. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who has followed Cryptic's various games over the years.
Honest question, what's your definition of regular updates? Because Champs has been getting updated regularly for over a year after the dry spell we had.
Honest question, what's your definition of regular updates? Because Champs has been getting updated regularly for over a year after the dry spell we had.
Something that makes me want to come back and play again? Besides coming back for vehicles, I've barely played this game despite having a lifetime sub and am still sitting on over 8000 zen. The novelty of vehicles wore out quickly because there was not much content that was specific to them.
Powersets? New Grab, Burst and Smash Alerts? More content for vehicles? I would say new zones except for the low population and it didn't really do CoH any good. While new zones looked better than the old, the city theme was overdone and there were just...too...many. But back to updates for CO. Speed boat races out in the water? Random mission when taking the jet to a different zone? Alternate animations for powers? New mechanics on powersets like combos such as Dual Blades in CoH? Build up Hideouts with cosmetic items(another cash shop opportunity I might add) or defenses so you can defend your base? And while I don't care about it, I'm sure many would love a Foundry system.
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Honest question, what's your definition of regular updates? Because Champs has been getting updated regularly for over a year after the dry spell we had.
Of course we are getting updates and content. It's just not up to their expectations.
People of this mindset consider things like the Season 9 update to STO, the upcoming Module 3 for NW, or even the Adventure Packs/Comic Series we used to get as "updates". To them, anything less is not an update and not content.
Note: I'd love to see a big major update thing too. But I'm not going to piss and moan about the stuff we do get.
We all want more. It's just that some customers are just more demanding than others...
they feel entitled to get what they want and become frustrated when they don't.
Is that bad? I donno....not passing judgment, It's just that I am the sort of person who tends to be content with what I've got.
I think that is where I fall in. I was content with City of Heroes core gameplay and couldn't play all the available content or powersets even in 8 years but I'm not as happy with the core CO game so want more. In CO I feel like I've experienced most of the game and am only squeezing the last drops of enjoyment in my short time playing. So yeah, I'm frustrated 'my type of gameplay' is no longer catered to. That is not Cryptic or PWE's fault. They have their own approach and the end result will please only so many people. With a lifetime sub, I will get what I can out of the game while it is still around.
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Honest question, what's your definition of regular updates? Because Champs has been getting updated regularly for over a year after the dry spell we had.
Well, since On Alert dropped in March 2012, we've gotten vehicles, alerts, and rampages. And temporary events that added more vehicles, and whose endings became alerts and rampages. And holiday events that just come and go with the seasons. And the occasional costume set and batches of bug fixes, but if we're expected to celebrate those things, expectations have been crushed mighty low.
Meanwhile, STO got a full expansion and 4 1/2 Episodes, and Neverwinter launched and is two weeks away from go-live for it's third Module.
Quantity? OK.
Quality? Table scraps. You know it, I know it, the coders and artists at Cryptic know it, and the bean-counters and managers at Cryptic don't give two $#!^s about it.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Well, since On Alert dropped in March 2012, we've gotten vehicles, alerts, and rampages. And temporary events that added more vehicles, and whose endings became alerts and rampages. And holiday events that just come and go with the seasons. And the occasional costume set and batches of bug fixes, but if we're expected to celebrate those things, expectations have been crushed mighty low.
Meanwhile, STO got a full expansion and 4 1/2 Episodes, and Neverwinter launched and is two weeks away from go-live for it's third Module.
Quantity? OK.
Quality? Table scraps. You know it, I know it, the coders and artists at Cryptic know it, and the bean-counters and managers at Cryptic don't give two $#!^s about it.
I was just asking for clarification, because the game literally gets regular updates. I'm not blind, I can make the comparisons between this and other games. Turns out he has a special definition of the word "regular" that means "substantially larger."
Well, since On Alert dropped in March 2012, we've gotten vehicles, alerts, and rampages. And temporary events that added more vehicles, and whose endings became alerts and rampages. And holiday events that just come and go with the seasons. And the occasional costume set and batches of bug fixes, but if we're expected to celebrate those things, expectations have been crushed mighty low.
Meanwhile, STO got a full expansion and 4 1/2 Episodes, and Neverwinter launched and is two weeks away from go-live for it's third Module.
Quantity? OK.
Quality? Table scraps. You know it, I know it, the coders and artists at Cryptic know it, and the bean-counters and managers at Cryptic don't give two $#!^s about it.
exactly, this why I am angry, there is nothing stopping cryptic to put in the needed devs into this game to bring up to where it needs to be in its life time, every up date is like a slap in the face for the pitiful updates we get. There is no reason what so ever this game cannot have a huge update twice or once a year, it is just that pwe/cryptic just does not care enough about this game.
exactly, this why I am angry, there is nothing stopping cryptic to put in the needed devs into this game to bring up to where it needs to be in its life time, every up date is like a slap in the face for the pitiful updates we get. There is no reason what so ever this game cannot have a huge update twice or once a year, it is just that pwe/cryptic just does not care enough about this game.
It's easy to say that when it's not your money on the line. Cryptic/Atari/PWE didn't just decide to make the game do worse and worse. They invested money, the customers didn't (enough). They can keep trying, spend a couple millions padding the development team for something big, and what happens when it's not everyone's cup of tea*? The money is lost, people get cut, someone decides the game's not worth it, and they kill it or put it on maintenance mode.
Don't get me wrong, I want them to throw money at this game. A lot. But it's not just so simple as saying "there's nothing stopping them from making this game great."
*As we know, it's not just Western comic book lovers that like this game, it's a many and varied type of people who are into all sorts of things. The developers we have now are a bunch of really cool guys, but we don't always see eye-to-eye regarding the kind of content this game has. If I had any say in the matter (and lucky for a lot of people, I don't), we'd never see flower head costumes, or magical girl costumes, and stuff like "anime girl" being picked for the costume contest. I know I wouldn't throw any of my own money if they decided to do a big Neo-Tokyo zone complete with power rangers and sailors of moons and tuxedo masks and Akiras that focused primarily on vehicles. A lot of people like those things, and that's fine, but it doesn't fit into what I think should be in Champs.
The time is right for a big move, and I think it is going to happen.
The press will then do a 180 or keep on with the perception, which won't matter so much if that negative press is massively. They have a fan base to entertain and retain, which includes coh diehards.
The time is right for a big move, and I think it is going to happen.
The press will then do a 180 or keep on with the perception, which won't matter so much if that negative press is massively. They have a fan base to entertain and retain, which includes coh diehards.
*As we know, it's not just Western comic book lovers that like this game, it's a many and varied type of people who are into all sorts of things. The developers we have now are a bunch of really cool guys, but we don't always see eye-to-eye regarding the kind of content this game has. If I had any say in the matter (and lucky for a lot of people, I don't), we'd never see flower head costumes, or magical girl costumes, and stuff like "anime girl" being picked for the costume contest. I know I wouldn't throw any of my own money if they decided to do a big Neo-Tokyo zone complete with power rangers and sailors of moons and tuxedo masks and Akiras that focused primarily on vehicles. A lot of people like those things, and that's fine, but it doesn't fit into what I think should be in Champs.
I am inclined to agree.
I, for one, see some of the costume sets (Dark Demon Armor, Dryad, Magical Girl) and my first thought is 'what a waste of developer time'. Yeah, I'm with you. Some people like it. I like a lot of things, and I don't think some of them belong in this setting.
Granted, it doesn't help that our 'setting' is a bad parody of its source material and an outright mockery of the source material's inspiration. It's hard to say 'it doesn't fit' when the game doesn't take its foundation seriously. At that point, I'm saying 'Sure, why the hell not?' I'd not be surprised if we got fart powers and butt-hats at some point.
But I think part of the problem is that somewhere the developers have lost sight of what they were doing. Yes, some things are cool. And as much as I think Meeda's 'Transforming Robot' costume idea was cool as hell and would buy that stuff TWICE, I can see how people would say it doesn't fit the setting. Fair is fair.
Again, I'll say that a portion of the problem is that Cryptic started trying to please everyone. I know I'll never get into game design/production, but I can tell you now that while I would want a robust character creator- I'd probably not make a superhero/sci-fi game and try to make Anime Furry Flower Princess Bootypoot fans happy. I'd focus on staying closer to the source material, throw in a few novelties that would please Anime Furry Flower Princess Bootypoot fans here and there- but I'll be damned if half of my cash shop cosmetics didn't look like they had anything to do with the source material.
Edit:
Personally, if I did a superhero game, I'd have monthly 'rotations' of themes. One month mystical/fantasy, one month contemporary/realistic, one month tech/sci-fi, one month traditional superhero, one month dark/wicked, or something like that- perhaps something related to the power set options. If I had it to do.
From a MMO prospective though diversity is strength. Sure its a super hero game but jsut staying as that without expanding all its horizons would be dangerous for a MMO. You will always be a super hero just the setting can change.
Robert Heinlein once said, "When a question starts out, 'Why don't they-?', the answer is almost always, 'Money.'"
And how many of the people posting in this very thread have said something along the lines of, "I'll put money into this game when they put money in?" Because that's not how businesses work. They have come to expect a certain RoI on this game, and spend accordingly, because throwing money into a low-profit business expecting that this will suddenly cause more revenue to appear is a business plan for bankruptcy.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I dunno.. I see a lot of people stating we've had regular updates. Sure we've had what amounts to small improvements. I don't knock them. Rampages were a smart move. Improvements to the Alert system another one. There have been a few mini-powersets (CO even calls them that) and some bug fixes.
Basically what in any other game would be maintenance work!
Again I don't blame the devs. They work hard and do the best with what their parent company gives them.
But when it came time to renew my subscription - I chose not to. Not because of any hate, but there really isn't a compelling reason to stay subbed. And much like the author of the original article we're discussing - I haven't yet found a game that's satisfying to me. I actually think at it's core CO is far superior to DCUO. It actually feels like a Superhero type game and I love that.
But it's obvious PWE doesn't really want to invest resources in bringing the game up to date. So really why keep paying or expect others to subscribe?
I might try Secret World or STO again. But I'll always be a little sad that CO is in the state it's in.
Since when did maintenance mode include active development? We've had bug fixes, systems changes, new alerts being made, new costumes, new vehicles and other cash shop items... what about this is maintenance? It may not compare to other games' development paces, but it's active development, in a fairly regular fashion.
Atari was the ones who kicked Cryptic in the butt to further development in the game.
Cryptic made the comics, forced by Atari, as an ultimatum. But Cryptic proved yet again how little interest they had in Champions by how poor their second comic was developed. Atari considered that was the bar that Cryptic held for their games and decided to sell them off since they didn't want any part of that.
And we can't blame PWE for what is happening to Champions either.
PWE is letting Cryptic do what they want with the direction of STO and CO since they only cared about NWO. Those in charge in Cryptic only fought for the investment into STO from PWE. PWE isn't tying Cryptic down to Champions because Cryptic isn't even interested in Champions anymore, so why should PWE be?
Cryptic is the reason why Champions has stagnated since On Alert. Don't blame PWE or Atari when Cryptic never tried to fight for CO's further investment.
But we have to remember the ONLY reason that Champions Online was even made was because of stupid Jack Emmert. He never did want to make City of Heroes in the first place.
He was all super GUNG HO to do Champions back in the day. Then it failed and crashed and burned with great show because they did a half baked terrible job with LOADS and i mean LOADS of unfinished work. In the end they basically carted him off to CEO so he couldn't be involved with day to day operations. and make it fail even more, but yet again he is since Cryptic pretty much owns the whole IP they are just going to sit on it and let it rot.
Since when did maintenance mode include active development? We've had bug fixes, systems changes, new alerts being made, new costumes, new vehicles and other cash shop items... what about this is maintenance? It may not compare to other games' development paces, but it's active development, in a fairly regular fashion.
That's what I don't get... They claim the game is in maintenance mode, but then we've been getting active development for a good while now. If it was truly in maintenance mode, there would be nothing at all. No costume packs, no events, no bug fixes, ****ing nothing. It may not be what some people consider work, but it's still getting stuff. Maybe I'm just one of those weird people that grew up being taught to be grateful for what I get rather than what I didn't get.
And thats the big difference: DCUO is actually getting regular updates. This game isnt.
Except the writer DIDNT hate on this game. She admitted she doesnt like it AS MUCH as COX, but she still LIKES it more than DCUO or Marvel. Not liking something AS MUCH as you like something else does not mean you HATE it. At least, not to a sane person.
Didn't hate on the game? Oh ok.
So the editor in chief of massively says she won't play it because it's not a proper spiritual successor, and then points out what everyone knows, which is that when compared to other games we get close to zip in terms of content updates.
Wow. What a shocking piece of journalism...no one knew this. It's news!!
Or someone was bored, missed a deadline or something, and wrote a completely useless and uninformative article out of spite and/or laziness.
hey claim the game is in maintenance mode, but then we've been getting active development for a good while now. If it was truly in maintenance mode, there would be nothing at all. No costume packs, no events, no bug fixes.
Bug fixes are maintenance - and it's not even like Cryptic is doing a good job there (cf. Bullet Bound for Biselle, broken resource nodes etc.).
Costume packs are not "development"; they're "piece something to gether for people to buy while we're in maintenance mode". (The same goes for lockbox, and I use the term loosely and with virtual air quotes, "content".)
Granted, there's a small amount of development going on on the events side. But taking off the rose-colored goggles for a moment, even that is apparently more about being able to reuse. There's all these old "one-time" events being funneled into the Alerts system because that's the maintenance mode way of expanding a crappy system that came in place of proper development in the first place.
Blood Moon was reusing ancient stuff that has never even been properly maintained for the On Alert era (cf. Treasure Boxes), and even FoxbatCon built on top of old April Fool's content - though to be fair, that was done quite nicely.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say there's no development - I am however trying to question whether it's enough to even call it maintenance mode. An actual proper maintenance mode would be trying to at least do something with one the game's biggest supposed USPs.
As it is, the Nemesis System has been completely neglected since the one big addition announced back in November 2009. Not only does that show there's no real development, it also ranks among the most conclusive proofs there isn't even proper maintenance (cf. the ever-broken Bunker Buster mission) - nor has there been for a long time.
CO will never be everything that <insert some other game I think is better> was/is, and it is also not developed as frequently as <insert some other game that gets more development>, so I'm <insert action I took that nobody cares about>.
You know how sometimes customer services will give people a "form reply" where they really just copy pasted a standard response? I kind of get the feeling some reviewers do that, and they're basically reviewing CO from 2 years ago and haven't actually bothered trying to play CO recently (or in some cases at all) and so wouldn't even know if it's seeing any development. Hell, the person who wrote the article pretty much admitted it.
I also think it's cute that some of todays' kids notion of "getting development" means getting something new every two weeks... and that some of those kids got "jobs" as internet game reviewers.
Costume packs are not "development"; they're "piece something to gether for people to buy while we're in maintenance mode". (The same goes for lockbox, and I use the term loosely and with virtual air quotes, "content".)
I disagree, in superhero mmos costumes are content. In fantasy games, you can live with mostly generic outfits, but in superhero mmos they are crucial.
Anyway, when I thought the CoX nostalgical articles were over ...
There are 2+ games on development that are supposed to be "spiritual succesors" of CoX, so that writer should focus on researching about them.
Superhero mmos are not a big hit, CoX was good but it also has the opportunity to be only one at its prime time on the prerecession years.
CO has 2 competitors that hold the main two brands of western superheroes in a time in which superhero movies are released several times a year.
CO can't compete with the ability to be or play superman or iron man. Therefore, its only choice to move forward should be to rethink its target audience and its vision as full western comic mmo.
I know there are many players with all the right to be against other paths like anime or maybe dark comics for saying two examples. However, I don't think the way things are right now are going to change unless Cryptic starts thinking out of the box.
I know there are many players with all the right to be against other paths like anime or maybe dark comics for saying two examples.
For myself, I don't really care, as long as you avoid bad cliches (or at least keep them in Club Caprice, where I'll never see them ). You want to play Lord Grimdark the Secretly Evil, who only plays at being the "hero" in order to take out the competition and get paid for it? Nepht and others have shown you the way. Want to be a Magical Girl who somehow got badly lost on the way home, and is now in Millennium City instead of Neo-Tokyo? Have at it. Roleplay that stuff to the hilt. Research your topic and try not to copy any trademarked stuff, and then rock on.
(Oh, and please do remember that you are in Mill City now, and not everyone wants to play along with Magical Girls. If you really speak Japanese, that's great, but if your primary education in the tongue comes from manga and anime, please, I beg of you, try to keep the broken Japanese to a minimum...)
Magic costumes, Grimdark costumes, Power Armor, whatever, bring it on! I want to see more Tights possibilities, and I also want the Waist slider to actually affect the toon's waist and not the hips (fat supers FTW!), but I certainly don't want to see you cut off from what you enjoy, because the more people who enjoy this game, the more who will play it. And the more players we get, the more dev love we get. It's a positive-feedback loop.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Comments
True, true. Someone else would definitely have to do the animations.
In regards to fantastic looks. I see the potential decent lighting (and shadow) has in the Vibora Bay area of this game and I have to say, assuming a player could run it, you can have some outstanding costume textures (and dynamic screenies) with TSW's lighting system.
Borderlands graphics. Much better looking, and fits the theme.
You are comparing individual devs in COH to development and publishing studios in CO. Not a particularly fair comparison IMO. If you are going to use CO's studios as your comparison then you should be using COH's as well. CO's publisher cares enough to keep the game running (for now at least).
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
That's a good point.
they sound awfully familiar, mind you the whole first page of that section is complaint threads about the update.
https://forums.station.sony.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/dcuo-is-officially-over.202456/
https://forums.station.sony.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/thoughts-since-launch-of-gu36.202367/
https://forums.station.sony.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/gu36-slap-in-the-face.202447/
best post winner: 12
Best thread winner:
https://forums.station.sony.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/thinking-about-quitting-dcuo.202448/
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^This.
Personally, I find TSW graphics atrocious. Can't stand their animations and character models.
This author's "it can't be replaced so I'll hate it's succesors/competitor's" article is a waste of time.
Atari, bad timing, PWE, and bad timing did this. Not the loss of COX for heaven's sake. And a lack
of reliable 3rd party backing as it pertains too how we each view our interests (gaming in this case).
Just wasn't in the cards. Maybe next deal.
And thats the big difference: DCUO is actually getting regular updates. This game isnt.
Except the writer DIDNT hate on this game. She admitted she doesnt like it AS MUCH as COX, but she still LIKES it more than DCUO or Marvel. Not liking something AS MUCH as you like something else does not mean you HATE it. At least, not to a sane person.
Actually I was comparing 3 dev teams deving city of champions, when I mean 2 for champions I mean the first set of devs left this game so this game got new devs. I am sure you know cryptic made city of, maybe it was this expectation that I and my friends thought cryptic would have leanred its lesion and sone better by this game.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Does CO need or would it be better with bigger updates? Definitely, I doubt any of us are arguing that fact. It still doesn't stop a biased article from being biased.
And yes, at least DCUO is getting updates... but bad updates can turn away players just as easily (if not more so) than no updates. Just look at SWG for a good example of that.
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Honest question, what's your definition of regular updates? Because Champs has been getting updated regularly for over a year after the dry spell we had.
That sounds spot on to me. The sad part is when COX shutdown Champions had a prime chance to add some very loyal gamers to it's fan base. A community of gamers that would probably be so desperate for a new outlet, that they'd regularly pay to do so.
The ball was dropped on the opportunity.
Not matter which way you slice it PWE/Cryptic totally fumbled it. How long has this game gone on without a single significant update? I don't mean vehicles or alerts. I mean an actual fully developed update. I think it's been two years. Two entire years.
No wonder someone wrote an article about that.
Now I'm just a bitter old wh*re ;-P
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
You actually just helped make the author's point.
During the time you're referring to, Cryptic still owned CoH. They pulled most of the Dev team to work on what later became CO. So yes, content updates did slow to a crawl. And Cryptic was directly responsible for that.
This is a pattern Cryptic has repeated several times. They did it again to Champions, then Star Trek, and I'm sure if PWE doesn't force them not to they'll do it to Neverwinter when they start working on their next big project. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who has followed Cryptic's various games over the years.
https://www.dcuniverseonline.com/shop/dlc-packs
Unfortunately there is nothing comparable to point to with this game.
Something that makes me want to come back and play again? Besides coming back for vehicles, I've barely played this game despite having a lifetime sub and am still sitting on over 8000 zen. The novelty of vehicles wore out quickly because there was not much content that was specific to them.
Powersets? New Grab, Burst and Smash Alerts? More content for vehicles? I would say new zones except for the low population and it didn't really do CoH any good. While new zones looked better than the old, the city theme was overdone and there were just...too...many. But back to updates for CO. Speed boat races out in the water? Random mission when taking the jet to a different zone? Alternate animations for powers? New mechanics on powersets like combos such as Dual Blades in CoH? Build up Hideouts with cosmetic items(another cash shop opportunity I might add) or defenses so you can defend your base? And while I don't care about it, I'm sure many would love a Foundry system.
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Of course we are getting updates and content. It's just not up to their expectations.
People of this mindset consider things like the Season 9 update to STO, the upcoming Module 3 for NW, or even the Adventure Packs/Comic Series we used to get as "updates". To them, anything less is not an update and not content.
Note: I'd love to see a big major update thing too. But I'm not going to piss and moan about the stuff we do get.
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they feel entitled to get what they want and become frustrated when they don't.
Is that bad? I donno....not passing judgment, It's just that I am the sort of person who tends to be content with what I've got.
I think that is where I fall in. I was content with City of Heroes core gameplay and couldn't play all the available content or powersets even in 8 years but I'm not as happy with the core CO game so want more. In CO I feel like I've experienced most of the game and am only squeezing the last drops of enjoyment in my short time playing. So yeah, I'm frustrated 'my type of gameplay' is no longer catered to. That is not Cryptic or PWE's fault. They have their own approach and the end result will please only so many people. With a lifetime sub, I will get what I can out of the game while it is still around.
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Well, since On Alert dropped in March 2012, we've gotten vehicles, alerts, and rampages. And temporary events that added more vehicles, and whose endings became alerts and rampages. And holiday events that just come and go with the seasons. And the occasional costume set and batches of bug fixes, but if we're expected to celebrate those things, expectations have been crushed mighty low.
Meanwhile, STO got a full expansion and 4 1/2 Episodes, and Neverwinter launched and is two weeks away from go-live for it's third Module.
Quantity? OK.
Quality? Table scraps. You know it, I know it, the coders and artists at Cryptic know it, and the bean-counters and managers at Cryptic don't give two $#!^s about it.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
I was just asking for clarification, because the game literally gets regular updates. I'm not blind, I can make the comparisons between this and other games. Turns out he has a special definition of the word "regular" that means "substantially larger."
exactly, this why I am angry, there is nothing stopping cryptic to put in the needed devs into this game to bring up to where it needs to be in its life time, every up date is like a slap in the face for the pitiful updates we get. There is no reason what so ever this game cannot have a huge update twice or once a year, it is just that pwe/cryptic just does not care enough about this game.
or I don't know...if you're feeling abused you may want to reconsider the relationship.
I'm not trying to say we should all love it or leave it...
It's just that this anger you're feeling cannot be healthy.
It's easy to say that when it's not your money on the line. Cryptic/Atari/PWE didn't just decide to make the game do worse and worse. They invested money, the customers didn't (enough). They can keep trying, spend a couple millions padding the development team for something big, and what happens when it's not everyone's cup of tea*? The money is lost, people get cut, someone decides the game's not worth it, and they kill it or put it on maintenance mode.
Don't get me wrong, I want them to throw money at this game. A lot. But it's not just so simple as saying "there's nothing stopping them from making this game great."
*As we know, it's not just Western comic book lovers that like this game, it's a many and varied type of people who are into all sorts of things. The developers we have now are a bunch of really cool guys, but we don't always see eye-to-eye regarding the kind of content this game has. If I had any say in the matter (and lucky for a lot of people, I don't), we'd never see flower head costumes, or magical girl costumes, and stuff like "anime girl" being picked for the costume contest. I know I wouldn't throw any of my own money if they decided to do a big Neo-Tokyo zone complete with power rangers and sailors of moons and tuxedo masks and Akiras that focused primarily on vehicles. A lot of people like those things, and that's fine, but it doesn't fit into what I think should be in Champs.
The press will then do a 180 or keep on with the perception, which won't matter so much if that negative press is massively. They have a fan base to entertain and retain, which includes coh diehards.
So, instead we get table scraps, which in return makes us go:
Been a while since an update has made me go:
...but so long as the servers stay up, I might as well continue to go:
It's not Jackie Chan...
If PWE/Cryptic were to finance a major update comparable to a "Season" update in STO or a "Module" update in NW...
Would they get a worthwhile ROI (return on investment)?
Probably not.
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Thanyou have more faith in cryptic then I do.
I am inclined to agree.
I, for one, see some of the costume sets (Dark Demon Armor, Dryad, Magical Girl) and my first thought is 'what a waste of developer time'. Yeah, I'm with you. Some people like it. I like a lot of things, and I don't think some of them belong in this setting.
Granted, it doesn't help that our 'setting' is a bad parody of its source material and an outright mockery of the source material's inspiration. It's hard to say 'it doesn't fit' when the game doesn't take its foundation seriously. At that point, I'm saying 'Sure, why the hell not?' I'd not be surprised if we got fart powers and butt-hats at some point.
But I think part of the problem is that somewhere the developers have lost sight of what they were doing. Yes, some things are cool. And as much as I think Meeda's 'Transforming Robot' costume idea was cool as hell and would buy that stuff TWICE, I can see how people would say it doesn't fit the setting. Fair is fair.
Again, I'll say that a portion of the problem is that Cryptic started trying to please everyone. I know I'll never get into game design/production, but I can tell you now that while I would want a robust character creator- I'd probably not make a superhero/sci-fi game and try to make Anime Furry Flower Princess Bootypoot fans happy. I'd focus on staying closer to the source material, throw in a few novelties that would please Anime Furry Flower Princess Bootypoot fans here and there- but I'll be damned if half of my cash shop cosmetics didn't look like they had anything to do with the source material.
Edit:
Personally, if I did a superhero game, I'd have monthly 'rotations' of themes. One month mystical/fantasy, one month contemporary/realistic, one month tech/sci-fi, one month traditional superhero, one month dark/wicked, or something like that- perhaps something related to the power set options. If I had it to do.
And how many of the people posting in this very thread have said something along the lines of, "I'll put money into this game when they put money in?" Because that's not how businesses work. They have come to expect a certain RoI on this game, and spend accordingly, because throwing money into a low-profit business expecting that this will suddenly cause more revenue to appear is a business plan for bankruptcy.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Basically what in any other game would be maintenance work!
Again I don't blame the devs. They work hard and do the best with what their parent company gives them.
But when it came time to renew my subscription - I chose not to. Not because of any hate, but there really isn't a compelling reason to stay subbed. And much like the author of the original article we're discussing - I haven't yet found a game that's satisfying to me. I actually think at it's core CO is far superior to DCUO. It actually feels like a Superhero type game and I love that.
But it's obvious PWE doesn't really want to invest resources in bringing the game up to date. So really why keep paying or expect others to subscribe?
I might try Secret World or STO again. But I'll always be a little sad that CO is in the state it's in.
if it was something like missions, and other junk that does not improve this game then NO
The Nemesis system needs fixing and here's ideas:
A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business. Henry Ford
But we have to remember the ONLY reason that Champions Online was even made was because of stupid Jack Emmert. He never did want to make City of Heroes in the first place.
He was all super GUNG HO to do Champions back in the day. Then it failed and crashed and burned with great show because they did a half baked terrible job with LOADS and i mean LOADS of unfinished work. In the end they basically carted him off to CEO so he couldn't be involved with day to day operations. and make it fail even more, but yet again he is since Cryptic pretty much owns the whole IP they are just going to sit on it and let it rot.
The Nemesis system needs fixing and here's ideas:
A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business. Henry Ford
That's what I don't get... They claim the game is in maintenance mode, but then we've been getting active development for a good while now. If it was truly in maintenance mode, there would be nothing at all. No costume packs, no events, no bug fixes, ****ing nothing. It may not be what some people consider work, but it's still getting stuff. Maybe I'm just one of those weird people that grew up being taught to be grateful for what I get rather than what I didn't get.
Didn't hate on the game? Oh ok.
So the editor in chief of massively says she won't play it because it's not a proper spiritual successor, and then points out what everyone knows, which is that when compared to other games we get close to zip in terms of content updates.
Wow. What a shocking piece of journalism...no one knew this. It's news!!
Or someone was bored, missed a deadline or something, and wrote a completely useless and uninformative article out of spite and/or laziness.
Bug fixes are maintenance - and it's not even like Cryptic is doing a good job there (cf. Bullet Bound for Biselle, broken resource nodes etc.).
Costume packs are not "development"; they're "piece something to gether for people to buy while we're in maintenance mode". (The same goes for lockbox, and I use the term loosely and with virtual air quotes, "content".)
Granted, there's a small amount of development going on on the events side. But taking off the rose-colored goggles for a moment, even that is apparently more about being able to reuse. There's all these old "one-time" events being funneled into the Alerts system because that's the maintenance mode way of expanding a crappy system that came in place of proper development in the first place.
Blood Moon was reusing ancient stuff that has never even been properly maintained for the On Alert era (cf. Treasure Boxes), and even FoxbatCon built on top of old April Fool's content - though to be fair, that was done quite nicely.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say there's no development - I am however trying to question whether it's enough to even call it maintenance mode. An actual proper maintenance mode would be trying to at least do something with one the game's biggest supposed USPs.
As it is, the Nemesis System has been completely neglected since the one big addition announced back in November 2009. Not only does that show there's no real development, it also ranks among the most conclusive proofs there isn't even proper maintenance (cf. the ever-broken Bunker Buster mission) - nor has there been for a long time.
You know how sometimes customer services will give people a "form reply" where they really just copy pasted a standard response? I kind of get the feeling some reviewers do that, and they're basically reviewing CO from 2 years ago and haven't actually bothered trying to play CO recently (or in some cases at all) and so wouldn't even know if it's seeing any development. Hell, the person who wrote the article pretty much admitted it.
I also think it's cute that some of todays' kids notion of "getting development" means getting something new every two weeks... and that some of those kids got "jobs" as internet game reviewers.
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I disagree, in superhero mmos costumes are content. In fantasy games, you can live with mostly generic outfits, but in superhero mmos they are crucial.
Anyway, when I thought the CoX nostalgical articles were over ...
There are 2+ games on development that are supposed to be "spiritual succesors" of CoX, so that writer should focus on researching about them.
Superhero mmos are not a big hit, CoX was good but it also has the opportunity to be only one at its prime time on the prerecession years.
CO has 2 competitors that hold the main two brands of western superheroes in a time in which superhero movies are released several times a year.
CO can't compete with the ability to be or play superman or iron man. Therefore, its only choice to move forward should be to rethink its target audience and its vision as full western comic mmo.
I know there are many players with all the right to be against other paths like anime or maybe dark comics for saying two examples. However, I don't think the way things are right now are going to change unless Cryptic starts thinking out of the box.
One is as valid as the other.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
(Oh, and please do remember that you are in Mill City now, and not everyone wants to play along with Magical Girls. If you really speak Japanese, that's great, but if your primary education in the tongue comes from manga and anime, please, I beg of you, try to keep the broken Japanese to a minimum...)
Magic costumes, Grimdark costumes, Power Armor, whatever, bring it on! I want to see more Tights possibilities, and I also want the Waist slider to actually affect the toon's waist and not the hips (fat supers FTW!), but I certainly don't want to see you cut off from what you enjoy, because the more people who enjoy this game, the more who will play it. And the more players we get, the more dev love we get. It's a positive-feedback loop.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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