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Make CO more silver player friendly

aetam1aetam1 Posts: 228 Arc User
edited November 2013 in Suggestions Box
I think one problem of CO is that many things are locked behind the gold status. Free players might not even know what they are missing. The game went free to play because the subscription system failed but it still makes them very important. So I propose a few things:

Start selling some of the gold benefits:

Power customization:
It is a vital part in creating the hero you want. It allows you to pretend an ice power is fire for example, by changing the color. It helps if you do not like the default color of a power and sometimes it is simply cool to shoot purple lightning.
So why not sell power customization in the zen shop? Could be account or char unlock and I am sure there are many silver players out there who would spend money on that.

Credit cap increase:
Allow players to have more money. There is no reason to enforce this limit, it makes buying/selling stuff a lot harder for a free player. It makes the auction house rather useless. I could see a lot of people spending zen to get rid of the cap.

Limited FF access:
FF really is one of the best features in the game. But the slots are expensive and many players will never know what they are missing, so I have a proposition:
Once you get your first archetype char to max lvl you unlock a limited freeform slot. By that time you should have some basic understanding of the game, but maybe a little freeform tutorial would be helpful as well. The limited slot is a normal freeform slot, with lvl cap 20. So you can try out how it works, test a little and see if you like it. At lvl 20 you get an option to make this slot into a full freeform at a discount price, like 2000 zen.
That makes it possible for everyone to see how a freeform works, it allows each player to get one slot at an acceptable price.


I think these changes would make the game a lot more attractive for free/silver players. And a subscription would still be worth it.
Post edited by aetam1 on

My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
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Comments

  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited November 2013
    aetam1 wrote: »
    Credit cap increase:
    Allow players to have more money. There is no reason to enforce this limit, it makes buying/selling stuff a lot harder for a free player. It makes the auction house rather useless. I could see a lot of people spending zen to get rid of the cap.

    It's the prime example of Cryptic insanity. Or incompetence. Whatever.
    Provokes in-game scams, destroys economy, and even if you are already subscribed, makes selling anything much harder - if you don't accept keys as your payment.

    Or you don't like spending too much time advertising sales in chat.

    You can offer things only to other gold players, but they probably already have it.

    Your alternative is to not sell it at all, because 250 g max is too little for certain costume unlocks.

    aetam1 wrote: »
    Limited FF access:
    FF really is one of the best features in the game.

    Honestly? Not just "one of the best". Unless you really like comic books, this game has no other saving graces but freeform and costume customisation. In CO current state.
  • aetam1aetam1 Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited November 2013

    Honestly? Not just "one of the best". Unless you really like comic books, this game has no other saving graces but freeform and costume customisation. In CO current state.

    Ok I admit, without freeform I would not be here.
    gradii wrote: »
    I'd like to see all AT's become free and for AT's to get a bit more choice in which powers from
    their sets to choose, like unleashed being able to pick sword cyclone for example.

    Good point. They should make all AT's free or at least very cheap. Like 200 zen for one archetype and a package, all premium AT's for 2000.
    And some AT's could use a little tweak and more options.

    My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
  • m1ndfr1km1ndfr1k Posts: 179 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    AT lockboxes??? LOL
  • aetam1aetam1 Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    m1ndfr1k wrote: »
    AT lockboxes??? LOL

    No one said anything about a lockbox in here. No idea what your are talking about.

    My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
  • drgmstrdrgmstr Posts: 886 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    As a silver, I can vouch that some more access for silver players would be nice. I would like to see money cap increase. I find it tantalizing to see a item I want on the AH but its priced to 250 00 01 to troll us silvers. I do agree that ATs should all be available or at least prices should be lowered to give silvers more access to trying different power sets. I for one when making alts I pick a AT to be that alts theme but when only limited to a few basic ATs, I feel that my creativity is at a minimum.

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  • spordeliaspordelia Posts: 425 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I think it's friendly enough. That being said I never played Silver, so I might be missing something here. I feel the AH has been price-y for Gold, as well, and items rarer than I've ever seen - if I were to venture a guess, maybe because I see them being traded for Cosmic Keys all the time in Zone Chat?

    I's odd that I feel almost the opposite. Less reasons to go/remain Gold than otherwise. Asking more for free of what those who pay for it get to have, it's a fine line. There's also a visible lack of commitment and accountability that just rubs me the wrong way. There's a dishonesty - in lack of better words -to it, that one gets to witness on a frequent basis. "I'll color this for you for X Cosmic Keys or in-game currency", or whatever, and other ways to get around stuff and rules that are there (I'd imagine) for a reason. And I've been like, is this the new normal? Is it completely fine, am I under a delusion or sense of entitlement of any sort? Am I missing the bigger picture, am I just plain dumb? I'm all kinds of open to being educated. Got a lot to catch up with.

    This not generalizing (stupid!) or against fellow Silver players in the slightest, I should point out. It's more to saying both sides are missing stuff. There was a decline, or am I taking crazy pills? I certainly miss the times when we were flooded with so much awesome. Costume pack and Hideouts I gladly threw my purse at and would again. I'd say perhaps, before just throwing it all at them for free - rather make it known what they are missing, might be more productive, or no? That much is clear to me, a good portion of players don't even know what they are playing, and couldn't care less. Nor they would care to participate in this or any discussion while being benefited from those who DO care, Silver AND Gold, with the bestest of intentions in mind as they genuinely want to see this game and its community thrive.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I am actually working on a huge suggestion write up with a mix grab bag of things that are feasible and things that aren't even remotely going to be possible for one reason or another. For this, Archetypes should be completely removed from the game, they've been a problem since day 1. Instead, Cryptic should have made limited freeform, with a select number of power sets, and from there, silver players could buy the power sets they want. It was a no brainer and I never understood why Cryptic made such a drastic change, because the powers team has to work double duty building these powers then creating archetypes.
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  • spordeliaspordelia Posts: 425 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I am actually working on a huge suggestion write up with a mix grab bag of things that are feasible and things that aren't even remotely going to be possible for one reason or another. For this, Archetypes should be completely removed from the game, they've been a problem since day 1. Instead, Cryptic should have made limited freeform, with a select number of power sets, and from there, silver players could buy the power sets they want. It was a no brainer and I never understood why Cryptic made such a drastic change, because the powers team has to work double duty building these powers then creating archetypes.

    I hear you. A number of things just wouldn't make much difference (I certainly wouldn't feel any) while managing to take away from what's really lacking for everyone. That's the bone I have to pick.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I like getting stuff for free. Give me more free stuff. Free free free free freeeeeeee! :D
  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,695 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I will take the Power Color costumization and the Resource Cap any time, because I'm NOT going LFT any time soon this year! :biggrin::biggrin:
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point
    Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies
    Playing since 1 February 2011 90+ Characters (7 ATs, 83 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I believe that the decision to go silver or gold should represent how you choose to pay for your gaming experience (package deal for gold, a la carte for silver) not what you are allowed to pay for.

    Everything that is available to golds should be available to silvers for a fee. Even veteran rewards should be available to silvers based on how much they have spent in the z-store IMO.

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  • aetam1aetam1 Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    spordelia wrote: »
    I think it's friendly enough. That being said I never played Silver, so I might be missing something here. I feel the AH has been price-y for Gold, as well, and items rarer than I've ever seen - if I were to venture a guess, maybe because I see them being traded for Cosmic Keys all the time in Zone Chat?

    I's odd that I feel almost the opposite. Less reasons to go/remain Gold than otherwise. Asking more for free of what those who pay for it get to have, it's a fine line. There's also a visible lack of commitment and accountability that just rubs me the wrong way. There's a dishonesty - in lack of better words -to it, that one gets to witness on a frequent basis. "I'll color this for you for X Cosmic Keys or in-game currency", or whatever, and other ways to get around stuff and rules that are there (I'd imagine) for a reason. And I've been like, is this the new normal? Is it completely fine, am I under a delusion or sense of entitlement of any sort? Am I missing the bigger picture, am I just plain dumb? I'm all kinds of open to being educated. Got a lot to catch up with.

    This not generalizing (stupid!) or against fellow Silver players in the slightest, I should point out. It's more to saying both sides are missing stuff. There was a decline, or am I taking crazy pills? I certainly miss the times when we were flooded with so much awesome. Costume pack and Hideouts I gladly threw my purse at and would again. I'd say perhaps, before just throwing it all at them for free - rather make it known what they are missing, might be more productive, or no? That much is clear to me, a good portion of players don't even know what they are playing, and couldn't care less. Nor they would care to participate in this or any discussion while being benefited from those who DO care, Silver AND Gold, with the bestest of intentions in mind as they genuinely want to see this game and its community thrive.

    I would like to point out that my suggestions do not really give silver players anything free. And I would also like to point out that there are probably plenty of paying silver players.

    A subscription model in general has some flaws. The problem is we do not always know how much time he will have in the future, or if something else picks our interest. You pay for some privilege, after the time is up you do not have anything left to show.
    If you buy something from a cash shop on the other hand, you get something. Whatever you bought is yours to keep. If you get a costume and you can't play for month, due to a lack of time, the costume is still there.
    Also a casual player, who does not have much time, will not get that much out of a subscription. If you can only play 4 hours a week you pay the same as someone how can play 20 hours a week.
    And if you take a break your stuff is locked behind the subscription. That means if you only want to take a look again you have to pay.

    I am just trying to point out, that subscription models have flaws. These days many games are free to play, because it works better. And a silver player player does not mean he won't support the game. Also even a free player might help, maybe he brings friends into the game that pay. Having a healthy population so there is not much wait time in queues and that people are able to find groups is good.


    So what I want is that silver players can buy some stuff to enhance their gaming experience. My suggestions still leaves big advantages for a subscriber. Like the char slots and unlimited freeform.

    Now think about the credit cap: It allows silver player to actually use the auction house. It reduces the time people have to spend in trading channels. I do not think anyone went gold for that anyway so it simply makes money for cryptic and benefits the community.

    Power customization: It mainly helps free form chars, gives them a lot of options for themes. The price for a freeform is pretty high anyway. So that player is already supporting the game, let him pay a little more and give him something cool. If you are already buying a freeform slot chances are you wont go gold as well anyway. So no harm done, one happy person and money for cryptic.

    Limited freeform: Look at it this way, many people do not know what they are missing. So tease them with what they could have, give them the first at a discount. Once they start experimenting and see the possibilities many might stay that would leave otherwise. It also gives them a reason to play their first archetype to max lvl. The longer someone plays this game the higher the chance that he will spend money.

    Archetypes: They are controversial I think. New players will fail with a freeform unless they get information from the forums or help form someone. Most people want to jump into a game without doing much research first. So the game needs a player friendly start. Archetypes do provide that but they could be designed better. And they are far to expensive.
    My proposition in a later post with the 200 zen per premium type and 2000 for all was actually designed as a trap. That package looks rather good. You get 15 types for the price of 10. But how many people lvl more than 10 premium types anyway? They still need char slots and maybe costume unlock to build the char they want. But 2000 looks like such a good deal that it would trick many into buying it anyway. It is cheap enough that people will even consider buying at least one premium for their 1. char. After that they might be sticking to freeforms anyway.

    All in all I think my proposition would help cryptic. Get more players an make more money. Also I am a LTS, as my titel shows. So no one can say I am trying to get this stuff for me :tongue:

    My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The only way this game would be more f2p friendly would be if they came to your house to give you a lapdance.

    I won cry if they gave more free stuff. But stop being so greedy.
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  • spordeliaspordelia Posts: 425 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    aetam1 wrote: »
    I would like to point out that my suggestions do not really give silver players anything free. And I would also like to point out that there are probably plenty of paying silver players.

    A subscription model in general has some flaws. The problem is we do not always know how much time he will have in the future, or if something else picks our interest. You pay for some privilege, after the time is up you do not have anything left to show.
    If you buy something from a cash shop on the other hand, you get something. Whatever you bought is yours to keep. If you get a costume and you can't play for month, due to a lack of time, the costume is still there.
    Also a casual player, who does not have much time, will not get that much out of a subscription. If you can only play 4 hours a week you pay the same as someone how can play 20 hours a week.
    And if you take a break your stuff is locked behind the subscription. That means if you only want to take a look again you have to pay.

    I am just trying to point out, that subscription models have flaws. These days many games are free to play, because it works better. And a silver player player does not mean he won't support the game. Also even a free player might help, maybe he brings friends into the game that pay. Having a healthy population so there is not much wait time in queues and that people are able to find groups is good.


    So what I want is that silver players can buy some stuff to enhance their gaming experience. My suggestions still leaves big advantages for a subscriber. Like the char slots and unlimited freeform.

    Now think about the credit cap: It allows silver player to actually use the auction house. It reduces the time people have to spend in trading channels. I do not think anyone went gold for that anyway so it simply makes money for cryptic and benefits the community.

    Power customization: It mainly helps free form chars, gives them a lot of options for themes. The price for a freeform is pretty high anyway. So that player is already supporting the game, let him pay a little more and give him something cool. If you are already buying a freeform slot chances are you wont go gold as well anyway. So no harm done, one happy person and money for cryptic.

    Limited freeform: Look at it this way, many people do not know what they are missing. So tease them with what they could have, give them the first at a discount. Once they start experimenting and see the possibilities many might stay that would leave otherwise. It also gives them a reason to play their first archetype to max lvl. The longer someone plays this game the higher the chance that he will spend money.

    Archetypes: They are controversial I think. New players will fail with a freeform unless they get information from the forums or help form someone. Most people want to jump into a game without doing much research first. So the game needs a player friendly start. Archetypes do provide that but they could be designed better. And they are far to expensive.
    My proposition in a later post with the 200 zen per premium type and 2000 for all was actually designed as a trap. That package looks rather good. You get 15 types for the price of 5. But how many people lvl more than 5 premium types anyway? They still need char slots and maybe costume unlock to build the char they want. But 2000 looks like such a good deal that it would trick many into buying it anyway. It is cheap enough that people will even consider buying at least one premium for their 1. char. After that they might be sticking to freeforms anyway.

    All in all I think my proposition would help cryptic. Get more players an make more money. Also I am a LTS, as my titel shows. So no one can say I am trying to get this stuff for me :tongue:

    Oh, no. Forgive me it came across differently. It was never about one's subscription type. As I KNOW many not only to be great peeps and just as valuable as players, I consider them friends. And why would it be any different? In all honesty I don't care to tell that apart. At all.

    I was talking about a different sort you might yourself have stumbled across. I feel they are a detriment, and I'll stand by that. Like you said, there are flaws. They are benefited none the less while continuing to act just as hostile, offensive and utterly disgusting just as human beings. That is sadly reaffirmed when I log on and get to witness such a behavior with these VERY good two eyes. I'd go on but my best judgment tells me that I, the game, this thread, these forums, could do much less from them.

    Back on topic, I'd be like "Sure, why not? Go for it!", especially at the current state of things? I do worry about the bigger picture - for Bronze, Silver, Gold or Platinum. At the same time fully aware I might be the one missing it. That being said, you seem so genuine with your suggestion that you've got my full support. Bad shouldn't take away from good. :wink::smile:

    I'm certain numerous players who've seen before and after, might have expressed their own feelings, at some point, on some level. This just might've been my turn. I'm also very, very over it (if I was ever that under it). No more from me on the matter. I'm probably better off anyway from such things and more like, "whatever." Well. Whatever. :tongue:
  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    If you've never made a brand new silver account, you have no idea how much they don't see. How many people try this game and don't even know that FFs exist or the amazing costume creation they can do? How are you supposed to convince someone to stick around when they don't experience the best parts of the game?

    I would also say, get rid of the streamline costume creator. Isn't that what the default costumes are for?

    ATs should not exist. They can never compare to a FF and you can't make a good game for both.

    And... none of the OP's suggestions are about giving stuff away for free, it's about giving silver players more stuff to spend their money on. I don't see how that's bad or greedy or freeloading.
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  • aetam1aetam1 Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    sterga wrote: »
    If you've never made a brand new silver account, you have no idea how much they don't see. How many people try this game and don't even know that FFs exist or the amazing costume creation they can do? How are you supposed to convince someone to stick around when they don't experience the best parts of the game?

    I would also say, get rid of the streamline costume creator. Isn't that what the default costumes are for?

    ATs should not exist. They can never compare to a FF and you can't make a good game for both.

    And... none of the OP's suggestions are about giving stuff away for free, it's about giving silver players more stuff to spend their money on. I don't see how that's bad or greedy or freeloading.

    I agree. As a silver player I would have never stayed and reached max lvl. You are missing out on the best parts of the game and you do not even know it.

    As for the AT's, you do need something for a new player. The freeform is too complex. Without help/information that will end badly and not everyone wants to read guides.
    But the AT's could use some work any maybe a little more freedom.

    Of course one could drop AT's and sell powersets, as some people have suggested. And maybe offer ig guides/builds. Let the community upload them, or something. So a new player can choose a theme and the game shows them some builds for suggestions, or something.

    My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
  • twg042370twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    sterga wrote: »
    I would also say, get rid of the streamline costume creator.

    Biggest mistake the devs ever made. I tried to get a friend who was a CoH player to join me but he hated the costuming.
    ATs should not exist. They can never compare to a FF and you can't make a good game for both.

    The "difficulty balance" problem in the game is solely due to the AI for the mobs and bosses. I don't know how recently this started, but the Purple Gang mooks actually back away from sword attacks now instead of standing there and punching you as they bleed out. That's a good development.

    If they make them all smarter like this instead of just adding more HP and Def it won't matter how fine-tuned a FF "I Win" machine is compared to a "gimped" AT. Both will have to start using a strategy beyond Hit'em'hard.

    Unfortunately, a lot of FF users seem to think that "Improved AI" means "On par with the players" and that's the wrong approach. That's not challenge, that's "Only the people with the best gear can play" and that's bulldookie
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  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    ATs are very heavily based on the trinity system, while FFs far less so. It just makes ATs not fit in. For the FF, you can bring your own heals and a pure healer isn't needed. ATs pretty much have to go the classic Tank, DPS, Healer party. While as an FF, your tank could also be the healer.

    Look at the Gravitar fight. Very trinity unfriendly. You have a boss that can and will target anyone, tank be dammed. Then you have DPS Trinity Toon spending the entire time dying and being rezzed because there is only so much you can do to beef up defenses.

    Look at alerts in general. There is no role check when you queue. How to you role check a FF toon? But not having one means if you aren't in a premade, there's a good chance you're lacking part of the trinity you need. It's telling ATs to go premade while FFs can just click and queue. FF toons can pass the aggro around when one is overwhelmed. Doing that as ATs means just delaying the inevitable death and then setting up the next AT to die soon.

    As FFs, you and your friends can just make cool toons and play together. As ATs, you are role locked and you and your friends have to pick which trinity to fulfill before you play together. If you have an AT, your FF friends are going to trivialize your toon. Have an AT tank? Chances are your FF friend doesn't need you to tank and you aren't doing a whole lot of dps or healing. Have an AT healer? Chances are your FF friend doesn't need a dedicated healer and your dps is pretty crappy. Have an AT dps? Cool. Damage is always useful... But your FF friend can heal himself and probably has to heal you too. Now you're being babysat by your friend's FF toon because he can do what you do only better because he can fulfill multiple roles.
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  • wrathsoul1wrathsoul1 Posts: 677 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    sterga wrote: »
    ATs are very heavily based on the trinity system, while FFs far less so. It just makes ATs not fit in. For the FF, you can bring your own heals and a pure healer isn't needed. ATs pretty much have to go the classic Tank, DPS, Healer party. While as an FF, your tank could also be the healer.

    Look at the Gravitar fight. Very trinity unfriendly. You have a boss that can and will target anyone, tank be dammed. Then you have DPS Trinity Toon spending the entire time dying and being rezzed because there is only so much you can do to beef up defenses.

    Look at alerts in general. There is no role check when you queue. How to you role check a FF toon? But not having one means if you aren't in a premade, there's a good chance you're lacking part of the trinity you need. It's telling ATs to go premade while FFs can just click and queue. FF toons can pass the aggro around when one is overwhelmed. Doing that as ATs means just delaying the inevitable death and then setting up the next AT to die soon.

    As FFs, you and your friends can just make cool toons and play together. As ATs, you are role locked and you and your friends have to pick which trinity to fulfill before you play together. If you have an AT, your FF friends are going to trivialize your toon. Have an AT tank? Chances are your FF friend doesn't need you to tank and you aren't doing a whole lot of dps or healing. Have an AT healer? Chances are your FF friend doesn't need a dedicated healer and your dps is pretty crappy. Have an AT dps? Cool. Damage is always useful... But your FF friend can heal himself and probably has to heal you too. Now you're being babysat by your friend's FF toon because he can do what you do only better because he can fulfill multiple roles.

    Void can Lifedrain, use Grasping Shadows for CC, apply a healing, damage and dodge debuff and tank using Ebon Void, especially with Voracious Darkness and yes, blocking allows it to recover health.

    Invincible can block while healing thanks to Reconstruction Circuits and can use a lot of weapons at once, so a lot of damage ensues.

    Savage got Regeneration as a Defensive Passive, which allows him to recover health over time (making him a regen tank), got Devour Essence (a melee version of Lifedrain) and makes the enemy bleed. Like the Void, he can debuff the enemy's damage. Granted, he's mostly single-target damage, but still...

    Anyway, must I bring more about the trinity-independant ATs (well, according to some of them)?
  • gaarafrednorrispgaarafrednorrisp Posts: 504 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    sterga wrote: »
    ATs are very heavily based on the trinity system, while FFs far less so. It just makes ATs not fit in. For the FF, you can bring your own heals and a pure healer isn't needed. ATs pretty much have to go the classic Tank, DPS, Healer party. While as an FF, your tank could also be the healer.

    Look at the Gravitar fight. Very trinity unfriendly. You have a boss that can and will target anyone, tank be dammed. Then you have DPS Trinity Toon spending the entire time dying and being rezzed because there is only so much you can do to beef up defenses.

    Look at alerts in general. There is no role check when you queue. How to you role check a FF toon? But not having one means if you aren't in a premade, there's a good chance you're lacking part of the trinity you need. It's telling ATs to go premade while FFs can just click and queue. FF toons can pass the aggro around when one is overwhelmed. Doing that as ATs means just delaying the inevitable death and then setting up the next AT to die soon.

    As FFs, you and your friends can just make cool toons and play together. As ATs, you are role locked and you and your friends have to pick which trinity to fulfill before you play together. If you have an AT, your FF friends are going to trivialize your toon. Have an AT tank? Chances are your FF friend doesn't need you to tank and you aren't doing a whole lot of dps or healing. Have an AT healer? Chances are your FF friend doesn't need a dedicated healer and your dps is pretty crappy. Have an AT dps? Cool. Damage is always useful... But your FF friend can heal himself and probably has to heal you too. Now you're being babysat by your friend's FF toon because he can do what you do only better because he can fulfill multiple roles.

    Usually agree with ya, Sterg.. but here I have to disagree. While they might not have POWERS geared towards being hybrids like FFs usually do, many ATs have specs that make up for this. Look at the Glacier before and after On-Alert. Before, it was really just a tank and needed a healer to back it up. But now with the Spec trees, it can heal itself constantly with crits and when it's knocked and held. Many of your offensive ATs got a heal over time spec (save for Blade.) I will admit it's harder, but with the right gearing you can make an AT as effective as most FFs... save for when going against most High Tier PvPers.
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  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Instead of turning this into a nitpick back and forth about ATs, I'm just going to admit I'm wrong and to ignore what I said about trinity and ATs.
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  • gaarafrednorrispgaarafrednorrisp Posts: 504 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Eh, it's an argument people always seem to unwillingly start. You're fine, hon.

    That being said, I do agree silvers should get more.. starting with that damn Global cap being removed. Another would be more of a Vet reward, but very useful to silvers: A free Freeform Slot after.. oh.. 400 days? 300 Days? If you stay gold it just acts as a regular character slot, but going back to silver keeps it a freeform slot.
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  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Eh, it's an argument people always seem to unwillingly start. You're fine, hon.

    It's also not appropriate for this thread. I could start a discussion somewhere else. General Gameplay? But not right now. Because lazy.
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  • xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Freeform slots need their price reduced drastically. Like, by half. If you have a freeform character that you love and that was built by your own creativity, you'll bet people will spend more money on costumes, emotes packages, and whatever else you throw at them to make their beloved character even more awesome. Make those freeform characters more affordable.

    I also agree with giving people the option to raise global caps, power color/location customization, and anything else that gold members have right now. Let them pay for the game piece by piece if that is what they want.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    xrazamax wrote: »
    Freeform slots need their price reduced drastically. Like, by half. If you have a freeform character that you love and that was built by your own creativity, you'll bet people will spend more money on costumes, emotes packages, and whatever else you throw at them to make their beloved character even more awesome. Make those freeform characters more affordable.

    I also agree with giving people the option to raise global caps, power color/location customization, and anything else that gold members have right now. Let them pay for the game piece by piece if that is what they want.

    You can reduce the price of freeform slots yourself though, by farming questionite and converting it to zen. Don't want to pay 50 bucks? Farm for a month and you'll only have to pay 25. Want it for free? 2 months.
  • wrathsoul1wrathsoul1 Posts: 677 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    spinnytop wrote: »
    You can reduce the price of freeform slots yourself though, by farming questionite and converting it to zen. Don't want to pay 50 bucks? Farm for a month and you'll only have to pay 25. Want it for free? 2 months.

    Acknowledging that you'll have to delete the character if you get something in the development wrong.
  • drgmstrdrgmstr Posts: 886 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    spinnytop wrote: »
    You can reduce the price of freeform slots yourself though, by farming questionite and converting it to zen. Don't want to pay 50 bucks? Farm for a month and you'll only have to pay 25. Want it for free? 2 months.

    Not everyone has the time to constantly farm Q to get enough for a FF, and how with the exchange prices are, it'll be much longer than that. As a silver throughout my CO career I don't really need a FF to perform just as well. If you do your research you can actually outperform most FFs out there. As I said earlier in this thread, a higher gold cap is the only thing I would like to see the most for silvers. Every time I make a new character I do try to make it a theme close to what the AT is, and I am one who likes a challenge to make a toon fit with its powers in the RP community.

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  • aetam1aetam1 Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    spinnytop wrote: »
    You can reduce the price of freeform slots yourself though, by farming questionite and converting it to zen. Don't want to pay 50 bucks? Farm for a month and you'll only have to pay 25. Want it for free? 2 months.

    But a new player does not even know what he is missing out on. You expect them to farm 2 months? What should they be farming in the first place?
    Daily alert? - easy enough
    Gravitar? - can be a pain depending on your archetype and takes a while to pop
    Comic series? - are fun in the beginning but I would not grind them for 2months
    Nem con? - you have to find/build a group first, can be a pain depending on your timezone

    The does not offer you much to do on max lvl. It even hides part of the few things it offers. Unless you go through all zones and do all quests you will probably miss the existence of lairs.

    Also getting your freeform slot is only the beginning of the journey. Once you have the options to build your own hero, you will probably be more interested in costum unlocks, travel powers,...
    Andy maybe you are even motivated to grind for the next freeform slot.

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  • wrathsoul1wrathsoul1 Posts: 677 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    aetam1 wrote: »
    But a new player does not even know what he is missing out on. You expect them to farm 2 months? What should they be farming in the first place?
    Daily alert? - easy enough
    Gravitar? - can be a pain depending on your archetype and takes a while to pop
    Comic series? - are fun in the beginning but I would not grind them for 2months
    Nem con? - you have to find/build a group first, can be a pain depending on your timezone

    The does not offer you much to do on max lvl. It even hides part of the few things it offers. Unless you go through all zones and do all quests you will probably miss the existence of lairs.

    Also getting your freeform slot is only the beginning of the journey. Once you have the options to build your own hero, you will probably be more interested in costum unlocks, travel powers,...
    Andy maybe you are even motivated to grind for the next freeform slot.

    Last time (and the only time, no less) I attempted to make a freeform (pre-On Alert), I used Pulsewave's guide and I died more often than when my FF was a Specialist.

    So yeah, not getting fooled again, sticking to ATs.
  • aetam1aetam1 Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    wrathsoul1 wrote: »
    Last time (and the only time, no less) I attempted to make a freeform (pre-On Alert), I used Pulsewave's guide and I died more often than when my FF was a Specialist.

    So yeah, not getting fooled again, sticking to ATs.

    You could just use the same powers as your AT and you would have an extra power. But anyway, if people like AT's better I have no problem with it.

    Freeforms give you the options for powerful builds but also options to screw up. And the game does not provide you with any real guidance so one has to rely on outside sources. But once you get more experience it can be really rewarding to design your own hero.

    I think the majority would have more fun with freeforms. And with my suggestion it would even be possible to try one until lvl 20, before you decide if you want to spend money.

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  • wrathsoul1wrathsoul1 Posts: 677 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    aetam1 wrote: »
    You could just use the same powers as your AT and you would have an extra power. But anyway, if people like AT's better I have no problem with it.

    Freeforms give you the options for powerful builds but also options to screw up. And the game does not provide you with any real guidance so one has to rely on outside sources. But once you get more experience it can be really rewarding to design your own hero.

    I think the majority would have more fun with freeforms. And with my suggestion it would even be possible to try one until lvl 20, before you decide if you want to spend money.

    1. Actually, you get two more powers with a FF.

    2. The fact that you must seek some outside sources on how to design your freeforms just shows how hard it is. The game really aught to add some helpful tips, like overall synergy and what not.

    3. Only if built right.
  • keikomystkeikomyst Posts: 626 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    How a 'limited Freeform' system could work while still keeping the general idea of Archetypes around:

    Make a new tab for passives, energy unlocks and forms.
    Passives and forms are a big part of the character. Rather than leave them in the various powersets, place them in their own category. (while possibly also leaving them in their current tabs). This way every utility power is accessible easily.

    Archetypes are confined to their basic powerset with a few additional "good" choices.
    Take the Marksman for example. They would have access to Archery, of course, but they should also be allowed to choose from the entire Archery powerset (in case you want Taser Arrow, or Gas Arrow and Storm of Arrows on the same build) as well as be given a few other options to make them a hybrid or a tank. (give them access to Lightning Reflexes) Also give them access to energy unlocks that make sense, like Molecular Self Assembly. Bountiful Chi Resurgence would also be an option.

    Make roles 'unlockable' for Archetypes.
    Give the AT a couple of 'role points' so they can choose what they ultimately want to do. The Marksman, for example, would begin with Ranged DPS role, but at level 10 they get a 'role point' that they can use to unlock Hybrid or Tank.

    Superstat freedom!
    Highlight the 'suggested' Superstats for the Archetype, but allow Archetypes to choose what they really want. A 'tank' Marksman, for example, would likely want Dex, Int and Con.

    Spec tree freedom!
    Pretty self-explanatory.

    Archetypes get to take all 13 power picks!
    Yep. Shouldn't be too much of a problem.

    Continue to sell True Freeform slots.
    Maybe at a lower price? Maybe make the 'Freeform with ALL power sets' still $50, but have a basic Freeform slot for $20 that has access to all of the Silver powersets and you can buy account-wide powersets for, say, $5 each? You wouldn't be able to use said powersets on your Archetype characters (without paying for the Basic Freeform conversion token? $10.)

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  • aetam1aetam1 Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    wrathsoul1 wrote: »
    1. Actually, you get two more powers with a FF.

    2. The fact that you must seek some outside sources on how to design your freeforms just shows how hard it is. The game really aught to add some helpful tips, like overall synergy and what not.

    3. Only if built right.

    1. Good point

    2. Maybe they could add a way for the community to help. Like an ig tool where you can upload builds. Make a rating system and see if that works. There would probably end up some troll builds but I think one could make it work.
    Also a little video guide that tells you about forms, passives, active offense/defense etc would be nice.

    3. That is one of the reasons why I suggested unlocking a trial freeform after your archetype reaches max lvl. At that point you have at least a little understanding how the game works Also chances are you met some players and might even get a little help or guidance.

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  • taintedmesstaintedmess Posts: 446 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    sterga wrote: »
    I would also say, get rid of the streamline costume creator. Isn't that what the default costumes are for?

    God yes this they should be reversing this stupid thing ASAP
    ATs should not exist. They can never compare to a FF and you can't make a good game for both.

    I don't believe this the AT system could work it just needs refineing


    aetam1 wrote: »
    As for the AT's, you do need something for a new player. The freeform is too complex. Without help/information that will end badly and not everyone wants to read guides.
    But the AT's could use some work any maybe a little more freedom.

    Nonsense the free-form system is perfectly manageable for new players sure you may not create the greatest character but you have to try really hard to create a truly gimped
  • wrathsoul1wrathsoul1 Posts: 677 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Nonsense the free-form system is perfectly manageable for new players sure you may not create the greatest character but you have to try really hard to create a truly gimped

    I followed Pulsewave's framework summaries for my freeform. The result? A easily killable character, squishier than when he was a Specialist.

    So, yeah. Getting it gimped is really easy.
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    wrathsoul1 wrote: »
    Last time (and the only time, no less) I attempted to make a freeform (pre-On Alert), I used Pulsewave's guide and I died more often than when my FF was a Specialist.

    So yeah, not getting fooled again, sticking to ATs.

    And most builds require more than button clicking in a random order.
    Sometimes the problem can be traced between keyboard and the chair.
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  • wrathsoul1wrathsoul1 Posts: 677 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    flyingfinn wrote: »
    And most builds require more than button clicking in a random order.
    Sometimes the problem can be traced between keyboard and the chair.
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    And sometimes, the problem is also in the community.
  • wrathsoul1wrathsoul1 Posts: 677 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    laughinxan wrote: »
    The best advice I can give is look at the AT's and how they are designed, alot of them(the good ones) are made to give you advice on how to make a solid build. You can then just remove the redundant powers from an AT you like, and throw in things like self heals and utility powers that support the rest of the build with the freeform system.

    Like how a FF'd Blade with BCR can (well, according a member of the other forums) beat an Unleashed in survivability?
  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    xrazamax wrote: »
    Freeform slots need their price reduced drastically. Like, by half. If you have a freeform character that you love and that was built by your own creativity, you'll bet people will spend more money on costumes, emotes packages, and whatever else you throw at them to make their beloved character even more awesome. Make those freeform characters more affordable.

    I also agree with giving people the option to raise global caps, power color/location customization, and anything else that gold members have right now. Let them pay for the game piece by piece if that is what they want.


    I agree with the above.Though for the $50.00 you spend of a freeform slot, would get you a couple of months of subscription. The bonuses of subs I think are personally better than buying a freeform outright.

    Then again with how the game is currently handled, and the little to no chance we'll ever get a large update for this game, I can't blame people for not wanting to sub.
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  • taintedmesstaintedmess Posts: 446 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    wrathsoul1 wrote: »
    I followed Pulsewave's framework summaries for my freeform. The result? A easily killable character, squishier than when he was a Specialist.

    So, yeah. Getting it gimped is really easy.

    happen to have the build lying around as I really cant understand how you could go so wrong esprcially following a guide
  • wrathsoul1wrathsoul1 Posts: 677 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    happen to have the build lying around as I really cant understand how you could go so wrong esprcially following a guide

    That happened before On Alert came (which means before the Specialist gets Breakaway Shot). I read Pulsewave's guide, made a Dual Pistols build with the recommended powers along with some of both the secondary and Out-of-framework ones, got it checked by someone from the other forums and if I remember correctly, I kinda had to spend most of the time blocking. I planned on getting it revised, only for someone to recommend me to go with the Military Weapons side of the Munitions powerset instead with some Gadgeteering powers on the side + BCR, Parry, Quarry and EM. After he curbstomped me in a duel.
  • aetam1aetam1 Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Nonsense the free-form system is perfectly manageable for new players sure you may not create the greatest character but you have to try really hard to create a truly gimped

    Hm... no. The game is rather easy, so most builds will work somehow. But you will have no idea that there is a thing like active offense/defense. You will have no idea that there are forms, you will have no idea that there are roles. They probably won't even know that they should take a passive...
    You will also have no idea about the powers. You are confronted with a huge selection and you will have to read the description of everything.

    A new player will be ok if he is willing to spend a lot of time reading, maybe asking for help. But people willing to do that are a very tiny part of the possible audience. Do you want a game only for people who will put a lot of effort into it? Or you you also want the casual gamers, who play 3 hours a week and wont spend 2 hours researching the system.

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  • tau41tau41 Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Just to weigh in... I've said for A LONG TIME the FF slot should be $20-$30. I know people that would absolutely spring in for that, which would generate a lot of interest and players and MONEY for the game.

    $50, people are just "No, PASS." The price point is hurting the game.
  • taintedmesstaintedmess Posts: 446 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    wrathsoul1 wrote: »
    That happened before On Alert came (which means before the Specialist gets Breakaway Shot). I read Pulsewave's guide, made a Dual Pistols build with the recommended powers along with some of both the secondary and Out-of-framework ones, got it checked by someone from the other forums and if I remember correctly, I kinda had to spend most of the time blocking. I planned on getting it revised, only for someone to recommend me to go with the Military Weapons side of the Munitions powerset instead with some Gadgeteering powers on the side + BCR, Parry, Quarry and EM. After he curbstomped me in a duel.

    was that before or after 2GM became the guns of god. if it was pre there buff then yea I can see how your damage could have been lack lustre still following pulsewaves build should have resulted in a playable build possible not great at PvP mind you as that's a separate kettle of fish
  • taintedmesstaintedmess Posts: 446 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    aetam1 wrote: »
    Hm... no. The game is rather easy, so most builds will work somehow. But you will have no idea that there is a thing like active offense/defense. You will have no idea that there are forms, you will have no idea that there are roles. They probably won't even know that they should take a passive...
    You will also have no idea about the powers. You are confronted with a huge selection and you will have to read the description of everything.

    A new player will be ok if he is willing to spend a lot of time reading, maybe asking for help. But people willing to do that are a very tiny part of the possible audience. Do you want a game only for people who will put a lot of effort into it? Or you you also want the casual gamers, who play 3 hours a week and wont spend 2 hours researching the system.

    Has the new generation of gamer become so stupid that they can't work these things out for them selves because I cant remember hundreds of people having these kinds of issues when champions first launched.

    If you need to spend 2 hours researching the systems to play champions with a free form a would question how the person even managed to install the game in the first place.
  • wrathsoul1wrathsoul1 Posts: 677 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    was that before or after 2GM became the guns of god. if it was pre there buff then yea I can see how your damage could have been lack lustre still following pulsewaves build should have resulted in a playable build possible not great at PvP mind you as that's a separate kettle of fish

    Speaking of which, when did that buff happened? Because I was Gold for only one trimester.
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