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Gift Horse
ayonachan
Posts: 557 Arc User
[X]
I do not care if you bicker amongst yourselves within this thread.
Oh, but if you have to ask what these all mean then you should not be here.
Dodge Chance
Old Dodge:
Base Dodge is 10%
153 dodge grants 42.5%
292 dodge grants 54.5%
306 Dodge grants 55.3%
445 Dodge grants 61.7%
New Dodge:
Base Dodge is 10%
76 dodge grants 15.4%
139 dodge grants 19%
153 dodge grants 19.7%
292 dodge grants 25.5%
306 Dodge grants 26%
382 Dodge grants 28.4%
445 Dodge grants 30.1%
__________________
Avoidance
Old Avoidance:
Base Avoidance is 20%
102 Avoidance grants 52.5%
139 avoidance grants 58.7%
241 avoidance grants 69.5%
353 Avoidance grants 76.3%
374 Avoidance grants 77.2%
New Avoidance:
Base Avoidance is 20%
76 Avoidance grants 43.8%
102 Avoidance grants 49.1%
139 avoidance grants 55%
214 avoidance grants 63.6%
241 avoidance grants 66%
353 Avoidance grants 73.1%
374 Avoidance grants 74.1%
425 Avoidance grants 76.3%
__________________
Offense
*New Offense Provides a multiplicative bonus*
Old Offense:
Base Offense(0) grants 0%
67.6 Offense grants 15%
120 Offense grants 22%
135.2 Offense grants 24%
209.1 Offense grants 31%
263.9 Offense grants 34%
340.5 Offense grants 38%
433.4 Offense grants 41%
472 Offense grants 42%
563.8 Offense grants 44%
702.7 Offense grants 47%
739.7 Offense grants 47%
829.5 Offense grants 48%
851.2 Offense grants 49%
881.1 Offense grants 49%
1040.7 Offense grants 50%
1066.7 Offense grants 51%
1188.6 Offense grants 51%
1288.6 Offense grants 52%
New Offense:
94.6 Offense grants 3.6%
147.4 Offense grants 5.5%
176.9 Offense grants 6.5%
181.7 Offense grants 6.7%
198.9 Offense grants 7.3%
210.7 Offense grants 7.6%
238.5 Offense grants 8.5%
250.1 Offense grants 8.9%
265.5 Offense grants 9.4%
271.6 Offense grants 9.6%
297.1 Offense grants 10%
306.1 Offense grants 11%
376 Offense grants 13%
414.2 Offense grants 14%
450 Offense grants 15%
554.7 Offense grants 17%
583.6 Offense grants 18%
610.7 Offense grants 19%
643.8 Offense grants 19%
651.7 Offense grants 20%
732 Offense grants 21%
752.2 Offense grants 22%
780 Offense grants 22%
815 Offense grants 23%
865.6 Offense grants 24%
924.7 Offense grants 25%
944.9 Offense grants 26%
970.4 Offense grants 26%
995.4 Offense grants 26%
1007.7 Offense grants 27%
1058.3 Offense grants 28%
1115.5 Offense grants 28%
1126.2 Offense grants 29%
1181.3 Offense grants 29%
1185.7 Offense grants 30%
1445.5 Offense grants 33%
__________________
Critical Strike
Old Critical Strike:
"Base" critical chance is 0 BUT because you MUST have 10 dex it turns into 0.13%
47 Critical Strike grants 3.9%
95 Critical Strike grants 11.2%
103 Critical Strike grants 12.7%
198 Critical Strike grants 27%
245 Critical Strike grants 32.2%
302 Critical Strike grants 36.8%
349 Critical Strike grants 39.6%
New Critical Strike:
"Base" critical chance is 0 BUT because you MUST have 10 dex it turns into 3.8%
47 Critical Strike grants 13.4%
95 Critical Strike grants 19%
103 Critical Strike grants 19.9%
198 Critical Strike grants 26.4%
245 Critical Strike grants 28.7%
302 Critical Strike grants 30.8%
349 Critical Strike grants 32.3%
__________________
Critical Severity
Old Critical Severity:
Base Severity is 50%
4.6 Severity grants 61.3%
8.9 Severity grants 65.6%
New Critical Severity:
Base Severity is 50%
2.5 Severity grants 61.7%
4.6 Severity grants 63.7%
8.9 Severity grants 66.1%
15 Severity grants 68.4%
__________________
Dexterity
Old|Dexterity|New
0.03% 5 2.2%
4.6% 63 14.1%
13.8% 120 20.5%
24.8% 191 25.5%
31.6% 249 28.4%
38% 329 31.4%
43.8% 461 34.9%
Dexterity+Critical Strike Scaling
Old|Dexterity+CritStrike|New
34% 72+204 29.5%
38.5% 134+204 31.7%
43.5% 249+204 34.7%
46.2% 461+103 36.8%
47.7% 461+204 38.2%
__________________
Elusive Monk
Old Elusive Monk
Note: Old Elusive Monk use the original Dodge Scaling.
Dexterity| Dodge | Dodge%-10% |Avoidance
5 1.6 0.6%1.6
45 15 5.2% 15
63 21 7% 21
85 28 9.2% 28
134 44 13.5% 44
191 63 18% 63
214 70 19.5% 70
249 82 21.8% 82
289 95 24.2% 95
329 109 26.4% 109
373 123 28.5% 123
417 138 30.5% 138
461 152 32.4% 152
New Elusive Monk
Note: New Elusive Monk gives a flat rate % bonus scaling on your Dexterity
Dexterity| Dodge%|Avoidance
5 4% 1.6
45 4.4% 15
63 4.5% 21
85 4.7% 28
120 5% 40
134 5.1% 44
214 5.7% 70
249 6% 82
329 6.6% 109
373 7% 123
417 7.3% 138
461 7.7% 152
__________________
This is the end since nothing else was not touched except passives and a certain active defense's advantage.
Curious as to what the other values do? Alright here...
__________________
Defense
Base Defense(0) grants 0%
50.4 Defense grants 12%
111.9 Defense grants 26%
153 Defense grants 36%
173.8 Defense grants 41%
196.2 Defense grants 46%
200.2 Defense grants 47%
278.8 Defense grants 66%
298 Defense grants 70%
311.7 Defense grants 73%
369.4 Defense grants 87%
418.7 Defense grants 99%
477.5 Defense grants 112%
499.1 Defense grants 117%
529 Defense grants 124%
585.5 Defense grants 138%
615.4 Defense grants 145%
__________________
Defiance & All power scaling
Note1: Quarry&LR&WotW&NW are not updated to reflect their new static dodge% but their damage% and avoidance# are still accurate and Earth form is in.
Note2: I did not have a passive equipped so certain values will increase in actual play
Here are rank 1 passives
Here are rank 2 passives
Here are rank 3 passives
Defiance
Note: All values are +/- 1
55 = 10%
65 = 11%
85 = 12%
106 = 13%
134 = 14%
164 = 15%
202 = 16%
249 = 17%
308 = 18%
385 = 19%
489 = 20%
__________________
Form Scaling
Form
Note: All values are +/- 1
225 = 10%
242 = 11%
273 = 12%
304 = 13%
334 = 14%
365 = 15%
396 = 16%
427 = 17%
457 = 18%
489 = 19%
__________________
Cost Reduction & INT
Note: There is at least 10 int on all numbers
Mini Gun - 11 Initial 7.8 per .25
46 Cost Reduction - 11 Initial 7.2 per .25
93 Cost Reduction - 9.4 Initial 6.4 per .25
93+46 Cost Reduction - 8.4 Initial 5.7 per .25
276 Int(68%) - 6.8 Initial 4.6 per .25
288 Int(70%) - 6.8 Initial 4.6 per .25
288 Cost Reduction - 6.7 Initial 4.6 per .25
276 Int(68%) + 46 Cost Reduction - 6.6 Initial 4.5 per .25
288+46 Cost Reduction - 6.5 Initial 4.4 per .25
288 Int(70%)+46 Cost Reduction - 6.5 Initial 4.4 per .25**
Two-Gun Mojo - 15 Initial 12 per .5
46 Cost Reduction - 14 Initial 11 per .5
93 Cost Reduction - 12 Initial 9.6 per .5
93+46 Cost Reduction - 11 Initial 8.5 per .5
276 Int(68%) - 8.9 Initial 6.9 per .5
288 Int(70%) - 8.8 Initial 6.9 per .5
288 Cost Reduction - 8.8 Initial 6.8 per .5
276 Int(68%) + 46 Cost Reduction - 8.6 Initial 6.7 per .5
288+46 Cost Reduction - 8.5 Initial 6.6 per .5
288 Int(70%)+46 Cost Reduction - 8.5 Initial 6.6 per .5**
Redirected Force - 63 Initial 32 p/s
46 Cost Reduction - 59 Initial 30 p/s
93 Cost Reduction - 52 Initial 26 p/s
93+46 Cost Reduction - 47 Initial 23 p/s
276 Int(68%) - 38 Initial 19 p/s
288 Int(70%) - 38 Initial 19 p/s
288 Cost Reduction - 37 Initial 19 p/s
276 Int(68%) + 46 Cost Reduction - 36 Initial 18 p/s
288+46 Cost Reduction - 36 Initial 18 p/s
288 Int(70%)+46 Cost Reduction - 36 Initial 18 p/s**
Force Cascade - 97-280
46 Cost Reduction - 90-260
93 Cost Reduction - 80-231
93+46 Cost Reduction - 71-205
276 Int(68%)- 58-167
288 Int(70%)- 57-165
288 Cost Reduction - 57-164
276 Int(68%) + 46 Cost Reduction- 56-161
288 Int(70%)+46 Cost Reduction - 55-159**
288+46 Cost Reduction - 55-158
__________________
Active Defense: INT & Cooldown Reduction
Note: There is at least 5 int on all numbers
42 int + 93 cooldown makes 67.8
138 int and 46 cooldown makes 67.2
271 int makes 64
122 int and 93 cooldown makes 62.1
138 int and 93 cooldown makes 61.1
175 int and 93 cooldown makes 59
218 int and 93 cooldown makes 57
271 int and 93 cooldown makes 54
138 int and 93+93 cooldown makes 52
308 int and 93 cooldown makes 52
513 int makes 51
175 int and 93+93 cooldown makes 50
262 int and 93+46 cooldown makes 50
351 int and 93 cooldown makes 50
255 int and 93+93 cooldown makes 47
425 int and 93 cooldown makes 47
558 int and 46 cooldown makes 46
299 int and 93+93 cooldown makes 45
308 int and 93+93 cooldown makes 45
395 int and 93+46 cooldown makes 45
343 int and 93+93 cooldown makes 44
513 int and 93 cooldown makes 44
469 int and 93+46 cooldown makes 43
551 int and 93 cooldown makes 43
558 int and 93 cooldown makes 43
5 int and 389 cooldown makes 42
404 int and 93+93 cooldown makes 42
441 int and 93+93 cooldown makes 41
602 int and 93 cooldown makes 41
5 int and 389+46 cooldown makes 40
484 int and 93+93 cooldown makes 40
602 int and 93+46 cooldown makes 39
5 int and 389+93 cooldown makes 38
551 int and 93+93 cooldown makes 38
646 int and 93+46 cooldown makes 38
138 int and 389+46 cooldown makes 37
595 int and 93+93 cooldown makes 37
691 int and 93+46 cooldown makes 37
271 int and 389 cooldown makes 36
684 int and 93+93 cooldown makes 35
271 int and 389+46 cooldown makes 34
175 int and 389+93 cooldown makes 34
404 int and 389 cooldown makes 33
308 int and 389+93 cooldown makes 32
441 int and 389+93 cooldown makes 30
558 int and 389+46 cooldown makes 29
646 int and 389 cooldown makes 29
551 int and 389+93 cooldown makes 28
558 int and 389+93 cooldown makes 28
595 int and 389+93 cooldown makes 28
602 int and 389+93 cooldown makes 27
640 int and 389+93 cooldown makes 27
691 int and 389+46 cooldown makes 27
646 int and 389+93 cooldown makes 27
684 int and 389+93 cooldown makes 26
__________________
Layering and Dragon'sWrath
- Bare-Base Damage
- * (1+ Role Bonus{25%, 0%, -10%})
- * (1+ Rankup Bonus{20%})
- * (1+ Rankup Bonus{20%})
- * (Variance for Power in question)
- * (1+(Sum of all AdditiveDamageBonuses%))
- / (1 + (Sum of all AdditiveDamageDebuffs%))
- *(1 + (Sum of all MultiplicativeDamageBonuses%))
- / (1 + (Sum of all MultiplicativeDamageDebuff??%))
- / (1 + RedirectedForce%)
- * ((100% - Avoidance%) - AvoidancePenetration??%)
- / (1 + Defense%)
- / (1 + Block%)
- * (1 + NegativeResistanceDebuff%)
- - Flat Damage Reduction
- = Solution
_____________________________
- Bare-Base Damage of the Attack.
- Role Bonus, Currently you can only have +0% +25% or -10% depending on which role you choose.
- RankUp Bonus. Rank 2 for the power giving it 20% extra damage.
- RankUp Bonus. Rank 3 for the power giving it 20% extra damage.
- Variance...the thing everyone loves to hate and never to escape from..
- Calculate Additive Damage Bonus. This type of damage diminishes in value after around 96%-98%.
- Calculate Additive Damage Debuff. I have never tested to see if damage debuffs are on the same or different layer as Additive Damage Bonuses...because it is hard to tell...I believe that these are the only type of damage debuffs but I don't know..
- Calculate Multiplicative Damage Bonus. So far this type of damage does not appear to diminish due to it not being as easily stackable.
- Calculate Multiplicative Damage Debuff. I do not believe that these exist but I don't know for certainty..
- New-ish Layer, Takes a large strain out of the user to keep up but it is useful to say the least.
- Dodge Roll. Calculate Avoidance mitigation. Avoidance penetration does exist for a select few NPCs(nullifies it completely so..yeaa...) and it merely nullifies not decreases. Dodge Chance 'reduction' does exist for a select few NPCs and even 1 player power.
- Defense. Calculate Defense mitigation(aka resistance). This includes passive resistance.
- Block. Calculate mitigation from Block.
- Negative Resistance. Resistance is permitted to go below zero if and only if there is enough negative resistance to bypass defense&block%. Defense penetration alone will only nullify not decrease. Negative resistance debuffs is what determines if you gain bonus damage or not.
- Flat Damage Reduction. Damage is not permitted to go below 1.
- Redundant for me to say what this is.
Shield - Solution = DamageHpTakes(If your shield has enough durability remaining this should be 0)
If PFF then:
Solution *0.1 = DamageHpTakes
If VIPER and PFF then:
Solution *0.9 = DamageHPTakes
Damage Debuffs only apply to the attacker.
Resistance Debuffs only apply to the defender.
If you have Dragon'sWrath then...well, let's just say that there is a way to describe the anomaly that occurs...
Dragon'sWrath halves the product of block resistance, defense resistance and negative resistance then adds 0.5
100% defense resistance, 250% block resistance, and 0% negative resistance would yield 7 but due to Dragon'sWrath it makes it 4.
2*3.5/1 = 7 / 2 = 3.5 + 0.5 = 4
100% defense resistance, 250% block resistance, 100% negative resistance would yield 3.5 but due to Dragon'sWrath it makes it 2.25.
2*3.5/2 = 3.5 / 2 = 1.75 + 0.5 = 2.25
__________________
That is everything that I am willing to share.
Edit: Oh right, added offense layer to layering.
Edit2: Well this is it I suppose...My little Marebear went years before me and claimed R.D.O.I.T.M.B.W. and now it is time for my passing. Goodbye Boing Boing Betty, in sickness and in health you have always been my alter-ego.
Post edited by ayonachan on
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Comments
So, for example, "139 dodge grants 19%", 19% is the final total (10% base + 9% from rating)?
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
There is only one thing that I have removed the base numbers for and it is the old elusive monk.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
My Amazon author page
How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
Demon Keypo's Building Guide
Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
Apathy is on the rise, but nobody seems to care.
Hardest part was that I was very reluctant of even giving away the information. "Do these people deserve it and can they even read and apply it and what good would come of it?"
In the end I just said **** it I'll title it Gift Horse and be done with it.
And now..
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you ♪~
Edit: Oh, and I didn't add in the new layer known as 'offense' onto the layering formula above. Fixed it now.
Seriously, thanks for all of this. It's a tremendous help.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
1+1=3
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
There's a lot of information here. What specifically would you like translated? Do you have any numbers of your own to offer, such as the dodge rating you expect to reach or the offense score you're hoping for, something like that to help figure out what you're after?
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!
Generally speaking, the layering formula is the order of operations for what things happen. It's a fairly plug and play situation as shown by the example.
Everything else is just to show how much it's changed (like crit is better at lower ratings).
Hm... Well, Night Warrior rank 3 seems to add 16% dodge chance no matter your stats. With the new dodge system, this is very simply tacked on to your total dodge chance, so to reach 40% dodge, you'd need 24% from other sources. If you go with dodge rating alone, then according to Ayona's chart, you would need roughly 292 dodge rating, which you get from gear and specializations. You could get this through gear alone, though that also means you would be lacking in Avoidance to take advantage of it.
If you wanted to save your gear for Avoidance, you could take other powers that boost your dodge chance. To my knowledge, every dodge chance boost from a power is now very straightforward, in that it will add the exact number it states to the dodge chance you see in the character window. No fancy ratios or exponents or square roots or anything, just dodge chance + power's dodge chance boost.
As far as for use alongside Personal Force Field... Unless you take powers specifically for dodge chance boosts, you're going to have seen a decrease in effectiveness. As if PFF needed to be less effective. :P If you do take powers to boost your dodge chance, you MIGHT have an easier time setting up, given the simplicity of how they're applied now.
Avoidance is still a little bit of a headache. Basically, just stack as much as you can, and use powers for dodge chance boosts.
I'm not 100% clear on the new system, myself, so if Ayona jumps in saying I'm a bonehead, listen to 'em and pay me no mind.
Not sure if that covered everything you want to know. If there's more, just ask.
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!
In the big basics?
Dodge from gear is now about 1/2 from what it was across the board, avoidance is changed slightly. Keeping your character "as is" results in on average a 50% decrease in damage reduction from dodge-avoidance (50% more damage). As dodge is reduced (and not avoidance) you'll find this gives spikey and inconsistent damage reduction, i.e few but large dodges. [The alternative high dodge / low avoidance, would give smaller reductions, but more reliable form of damage reduction]
If you have dodge from any passive is now % based, and isn't absorbed by your gear, so you can have 10-20% more dodge than listed on the table.
I *think* Way of the warrior gives +20% dodge at +R2, so you're goal of 40% seems plausible even with limited resources .
And more thanks for the table, when CO is up i might have some of the lower #'s to add to the table. Though some now i think we just get "Dodge/2".
I have no idea how to read this. Or at least that's what some people apparently tell me =p
50% crit chance, 100% crit chance I will miss you!
So if I were to look a gift horse in the mouth......
If anything ever deserved a sticky. Kudos, that's impressive.
RIP Caine
ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ
I'm not Korean I'm just amused that someone finds anything that I have ever posted to be worthy of a sticky.
Your post has all of the awesome info that makes build nerds drool. At the very least, a stick should be made for a list of guides thread that can actually be edited and this thread should be in it on the first page instead of being linked in post 104 of the Guide to Spec Trees from before the Forumpocolypse.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
aww *e-hugs you*
Next best thing is putting it in a sig, I guess. If you won't then maybe I will do that, if you approve?
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
30% of the information is 3 years old. 75% of that 30% has never been updated and yet remains accurate.
20% of the original information came during the time leading up to on-alert with Marebear being the acting "Ayonachan" at the time.
The last 50% was added due to the dodge/avoidance/offense/crit/severity/passive balance patch compliments of the current "Ayonachan" which is 6 months old now since the first post of this thread but was actually kept logged over the various preview updates which started 7 months ago.
100% of the information provided can be used however the reader wishes for the true purpose of all the number saving was to statistically judge the efficiency of any given level 40 with moderate accuracy when one is given only a number and label with no true numbers on passives and powers(aka giving the finger to DR and HD) and was and has always been used by the "Ayonachans" as such with the exception of scaring rude NPCs with firesnake(I know I ****ing saved so and so and such and such so stop ****ing coming up to me and pushing me away from the damn tailor! Lost too many good costumes due to NPCs doing this and have literally reached a point where looking in my saved costumes CTDs me).
Yet yf he lacked charite, all hys fayth suffised not.
Fun fact: In the past I have personally tried to create a table that had an accurate outcome for various preset passive bonus damage for each and every rank 1 2 and 3 freeform attack power within the game(at the time) and planned up to 500% from "base" but have decommissioned it due to time restraints and hidden decimals. The rank 1 2 and 3 passives(for all passives within the game except the only one that doesn't work like the others) are the results of trying to salvage whatever I could from a lost but never forgotten dream.
Hm, well Selphea made a really nice gear comp function. If we knew more of the algorithms to the passives I imagine a similar type of spreadsheet could be made. But I think if you just gave enough 'sample' values along the spread that could work too- just like this gift horse in general, just use estimations to the nearest sample data and that could be enough. In a way its already done.. somewhat.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
I think the closest we ever got to a formula released to the public was in this thread. That one wasn't accurate enough for me so I didn't use it.
Offensive passives boil down to Melee offense or Ranged offense with even their energy gains being EXACTLY identical with only the method of procing differing and the extremely few passives having their "defensive bonus" as something other than pure resistance to their damage type. Of the unique offensive passives only one truly strikes out as being 'different' but it can easily be explained why by just looking at the numbers.
Support and Defense passives are all "different" in the sense that they cover all different areas(defiance being the most unique passive of them all due to how it scales ONLY on con and aura of arcane clarity being second most unique due to bugged personal charge-speed scaling only on pre) but...at the end of the day once you actually use them all you find out that the viability of some of the defense and support passives are harder to use in certain situations while others are the true 'jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none' and then you have the extraordinarily broken and overpowered medical nanites and the even MORE broken and OP aura of arcane clarity...Still don't know why they haven't fixed these two severely broken passives yet...
Synergies within CO exist...but they are so......flat that...well...one doesn't have to look hard. The only synergies that aren't obvious are ones that can be labeled as 'broken' such as how the old enrage gave (all)damage bonus(also, aura of ebon destruction and nightwarrior give this too I believe) and whilst using certain powers such as ice barrier it gives...well go try it and find out! At the end of the day though it is fun to spray people with 250% passive bonus damage and watch idly as all those who oppose you are obliterated as far and long as your eyes can reach...
...Standing on the sidelines...
..Waving your hands as an orchestra dedicated to the chaotic violence is released upon your enemies...with you conducting your band you quicken the tempo, bringing your hands up and casting out your majesty upon your allies...as the battle escalates your minions grow weak and weary but it matters not as you replace them with warriors filled with a fire burning within their eyes...you make one final pass to push over the climax and swoon the crowd with your tendrils of death extending from your fingertips and embracing your foes with your terrifying visage...as the dust settles you bow to your band and turn your back on the chaos...you don't need the riches that have been left behind...no...you came for the promise of a good and long fight and were displeased with the performance of the enemy...maybe the next queue would be different...or maybe you just might hold back to give the enemy a fighting chance...but why should you?
Hi, noticed this interesting math thread. I would potentially like to crunch some of the raw data in my spare time, if you have multidimensional data available.
Among the various things I did is derive the original version of the "new" EVE stacking formula, as well as the skill scaling for Sacred 2 (yea, my real life work also involves some statistics - IANA statistician though). I could take a look at this if people have the requisite data points.
My hypothesis (that most of the equations have a first-order Michaelis-Menten equation form (y = a*x/(b+x)) was correct, as it was for Sacred. It's a favorite for many game designers, and also meshes well with "cryptic math" (the DR formula).
Offense
New offense scales as follows:
% Dmg increase = 0.767*Offense/(1901 + Offense)
Old offense scales as follows:
% Dmg increase = 0.602*Offense/(203.8 + Offense)
Note new offensive is multiplicative, so what looks like a huge nerf in reality may not be.
Plot of new (black) vs old (orange) offense scaling (x-axis: offense value, y-axis: amount of scaling, expressed as Percentage/100.
These are actual fits, and I'm not making things up:
Michaelis-Menten w/ y-offset.
New:
% Avoidance = (35.74 + Avoidance value)/(178.7 + Avoidance value)
Old:
% Avoidance = (29.72 + Avoidance value)/(148.6 + Avoidance value)
New (red) vs old (blue).
Again I'm highly confident in these despite the low number of datapoints, but secondary verification would be appreciated.
Only caveat is that the old Offense was 'additive' in how it affected final damage, being in the passive dmg layer. New one is nearly 'multiplicative', being in the same layer as crit severity. W/o that info one'd prob look at the two diff curves and think that Offense was very heavily nerfed :x
I mean, at ~300 rating, the old version gave ~35% additive, new version ~10%. A 35% additive boost is more like a 4.5-6% final dmg boost for a committed dps FF (not factoring crits), so the new version is prob more palatable by comparison for many builds.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Was anything changed regarding damage reduction stacking order?
Yep, good note on the offense. Overall, offense has actually been boosted for many builds. I'll put a quick note.
This one is a bit more tricky, but the final form of the equation was surprisingly simple:
Pct reduction = 1 / (0.001504*Int + 0.002856*Cooldown + 1)
This is expressed as a % of the original cooldown time. For instance, with an Int of 175 and a cooldown reduction of 93, you get 0.654, which when multiplied by the original 90 second cooldown, gives you 58.86 (ayonachan had 59).
In other words, each point of cooldown reduction is "worth" as much as about 2 points of intelligence. That intuitively makes sense.
Graph created with Microsoft Mathematics 4.0. It's awesome ... and free.
x-axis: Int
y-axis: Cooldown reduction
z-axis: % of original cooldown
Available data points plotted.
Simplest, of all, just a linear regression. Note that the actual % values applies, of course, additively, and is subject to DR.
Defense % = 0.002353*Defense
Plot: do I really need one? Lol.
Thanks to more data collected by flowcyto, I have the final solution:
Pct reduction = 0.493 + 10050 / (19762 + (Int + Cost reduction)^2)
x,y-axis - Int and cost reduction (from the formula, it doesn't matter which is which)
z-axis - Percent of original cost
Works similarily to Int and Cooldown.
An interesting finding is that total cost reduction cannot ever get below about 50% of the base power cost, no matter what your stats are.
FC cost listed is for the fully charged version:
Int and Cost Reduction seem to have the same scaling per point, as per this data.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Thank you, will look into this some more. Hit you up with a friend invite in case I had any questions about the dataset, but you didn't reply yet.
Yeah its not a good time to catch me in game atm, but send me a PM if ya want. I'll look out for it.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Thanks,
Updated previous post with provisional fit. The "shape" of the cost reduction curve is unique (I believe it to be an integral of some function, actually) and different from cooldown reduction, and I don't have a perfect fit, but something that works.
But yes, I believe cost reduction is worth "as much as" Int, on a point by point basis. Interestingly, cooldown reduction is not (see previous post).
It's probably that Cost Reduction is under performing and should be doubled to match Cooldown Reduction, but they should probably put a DR on both so that it's not as ridiculous when combined with high INT. Then they should add a new mod that does something new and worthwhile for Utility Upgrades.
IDK what that could be though. How about a Crowd Control HP Boost/Knock Resist/Charge Time Reduction mod? None of those are stats you can really gear for at the moment. Unless you primary CON you can only get Knock Resist from STR, and Charge Time Reducton comes from only two spec masteries and two passives, and you can't get Crowd Control HP boosts at all.
That Dork In The Suspenders, signing out.
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I'm glad that my (hasty for now) analysis has revealed further points of discussion. I also thought the "shape" of the cost reduction curve to be weird (though to best appreciate the difference, graph the function yourself). "Small" values of int and cost reduction have less of an effect than one would expect, compared to cooldown.
In other words, an INT/CR bonus less than 25 (e.g. taking INT specs without an SS) is probably not worth achieving, as far as cost reduction is concerned.
Also, I'm ready to tackle the big one (DEX/Critical strike/severity), but, as always,
set #1 is just CRR, #2 is just Int, #3 combines both. #4 is just an assorted mix of each that went till I was tired of sampling.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Thanks to this additional data and a key insight (that fitting lower-dimensional data is obv. easier), I posted the final solution. No more tanh or messy functions.
If ya need more data for the crit% one w/ Dex and critR, just let me/us know what could help. Starting Wednesday I won't have access to the game for a week or so, but maybe I could hammer something out before then.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Thank you. Since you're doing Dex, might as well throw dodge% into there as well, if you've got the time. (This week is ... BUSY for me).
As for number of points to sample = really don't need too many, as long it's somewhat spread out. (i.e. combinations of low/med/high dex with low/med/high crit/dodge.) About 50 points each should be more than enough. No specializations or powers of course.
Had to use Con or Dex's Deflection talents to get the numbers on the high and low-ends (adding deflection's rating to any gear rating where appropriate; dodge mods at lvl 40 only go as low as ~40 rating in lowbie gear).
Couldn't really go much higher than ~540 rating, I'm afraid
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
that's about the highest I can afford to go on crit rating atm
Seems like they both have similar scaling for Crit%, ala Int and CRR for cost discount. Interesting..
Edit: well dur.. Ayonachan had some higher critR values in the OP- hope those are enough when added on:
245 Critical Strike grants 28.7%
302 Critical Strike grants 30.8%
349 Critical Strike grants 32.3%
keep in mind those were w/ 10 Dex, not 5
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Couldn't get all higher-end combos, but hope that's good enough. Also, its late here and I'm nodding off, so be on the lookout for typos (or odd data) in this set, but hopefully there's no issues.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
2D hyperbolic with offset.
Dodge% = d/(12.5+ 0.02175*d) + 10
where d is dodge rating and the "10" is the base. DEX does not directly affect dodge except thru specs.
Note plot intersects at 0 for the purpose of the fit.
3D Logistic.
Crit % = 52/(1 + (0.005*[Crit rating + DEX value])^(-0.851))
X: sum of dex + crit rating
Y: Crit %
These data points are most likely errors; I'll remove them and do a refit.
Dex Rating Crit
231 208 24.4
333 174 33.6
Removing and doing a refit.