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Attempting to start a new era of Team PvP
isometry
Posts: 148 Arc User
Tonight @rabidsquaw brought up the idea of trying to get more team based PvP going in CO. I think that is a great idea, and I told him about how we used to hold weekly events to get the queues popping. Let's set a time to get as many people as possible to queue:
Casual UTC and SH nights Saturdays and Sundays 4-6pm PST
We'll change it from there if necessary. Let's promote this event to the broader CO community, outside of just the regulars, and try to make it fun for everyone.
Veterans: consider trying to lead by example, to teach new players good ettiquette. This is not a time to pull out our ruin mojo quarry ice naders and destroy everyone, how about instead challenging ourselves to use different powers, and inject some variety into our hero games. The goal is having fun and getting more people introduced to PvP, not being uber-competitive to win more imaginary internet points. Our community is too small to set hard and fast rules: instead lets use common sense, good sportsmanship, and keep in mind the golden rule.
Part of this initiative will include a revival of the CO PvP channel. Let's take it back to the old days when we helped new players and created a sense of community that overarches our individual SGs. Let's cut out the trolling and negativity that have driven away so many players, veteran and newbie alike. i would rather appeal to people's good nature than to use moderation, but we will consider moderating the channel more actively if necessary. And on that note: SPECTRE currently has a monopoly on moderating the channel, but that is not intentional. I would prefer to promote some new moderators from other SGs. The main requirement is to be mature and use those powers for good and not for evil.
That's it. I'm not trying to be the boss of anyone, and frankly I don't have the time to carry this initiative all by myself. I am hoping for others to step up so that we can all do it together. It won't be perfect, and I am sure there will be arguments. But all that matters is for us to get team pvp off the ground again. If these casual matches work out, then we can see about doing more competitive matches, pre-made SG vs SG, etc, but for now lets focus on getting more players involved, and on making builds that work for team PvP and not just for BASH.
Casual UTC and SH nights Saturdays and Sundays 4-6pm PST
We'll change it from there if necessary. Let's promote this event to the broader CO community, outside of just the regulars, and try to make it fun for everyone.
Veterans: consider trying to lead by example, to teach new players good ettiquette. This is not a time to pull out our ruin mojo quarry ice naders and destroy everyone, how about instead challenging ourselves to use different powers, and inject some variety into our hero games. The goal is having fun and getting more people introduced to PvP, not being uber-competitive to win more imaginary internet points. Our community is too small to set hard and fast rules: instead lets use common sense, good sportsmanship, and keep in mind the golden rule.
Part of this initiative will include a revival of the CO PvP channel. Let's take it back to the old days when we helped new players and created a sense of community that overarches our individual SGs. Let's cut out the trolling and negativity that have driven away so many players, veteran and newbie alike. i would rather appeal to people's good nature than to use moderation, but we will consider moderating the channel more actively if necessary. And on that note: SPECTRE currently has a monopoly on moderating the channel, but that is not intentional. I would prefer to promote some new moderators from other SGs. The main requirement is to be mature and use those powers for good and not for evil.
That's it. I'm not trying to be the boss of anyone, and frankly I don't have the time to carry this initiative all by myself. I am hoping for others to step up so that we can all do it together. It won't be perfect, and I am sure there will be arguments. But all that matters is for us to get team pvp off the ground again. If these casual matches work out, then we can see about doing more competitive matches, pre-made SG vs SG, etc, but for now lets focus on getting more players involved, and on making builds that work for team PvP and not just for BASH.
Post edited by isometry on
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Well, I did say:
I do have some good reasons for being hopeful. (1) We have done a casual team pvp night before, years ago, and it worked well. (2) Most of the guys who prefer running ultra competitive play to win builds tend to prefer BASH anyway, whereas the very nature of team pvp makes more kinds of builds viable. (3) At this point, everyone can see the need to bring new people into our community.
More action at Champions Online Comics @ http://co-comics.webs.com
On a more cereal note, we will be promoting the copvp channel as a friendly place to get advice in zone and other channels. So expect some new peeps. Help us get more peeps as well!
Going along with that we'll be moderating copvp chat a bit more than usual to make it more welcoming for new players who may want to get advice, test stuff, etc.
So be nice or be mute.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Just making sure everyone remembers that the moderaters are actually powerless to unmute you once they've muted you, so shut your mouths and know your roles like good little boys and boys
This is in fact the most important part of this whole thing. Might want to add it in caps to the initial post.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
There are workarounds, and people can eventually be unmuted. If necessary we can make the channel invite-only, but I don't anticipate that happening. Over 900 players past and present have joined the channel, and there have only been a handful of people who caused problems.
Like...everyone from DC/SoT yes?
I wasn't there when they were muted, and in any case a year has passed since then and I don't think they deserve to be muted permanently. I have attempted to unmute @mcluving and @redburst , and will continue to do so until it works. If any of the others (there are only 5 or so people) want to send me a civilized tell or email in game asking to be unmuted, then I will almost certainly do so.
I favor as much freedom and as little enforcement as possible. I also think everyone deserves a second chance.
Also, if this is done and we get some organized PVP, I'm willing to add some device rewards.
Also nice that SPECTRE is willing to share the power/responsibility of moderation of the CO PvP channel.:redface:
A question about the actual event though: Would King of the Hill also be in the team PvP rotation or no?
Sure, if people want to do it! The main concern is just getting enough people to pop something, anything.
^^ Agreed^^
Most of them have not changed in over the years and have examples in the last 3 months of spamming ice nades and then trolling through videos and or forum posts.
I would agree to get AE moving on this as well go pure theme Alien melee if you just agree with the above.
If CERTAIN DC members are there we will show up in the Quarry killing builds and proceed as normal.
Specifically - MC Luvin, Straight Jacket and or Aphrodite / Green Saber. If you can get them to agree to NOT
spam Ice nades and run infinite ascension MD setups, you will have eliminate 95% of the PVP troll player base in this event. I agree everyone should have the opportunity to be involved and I'm not advocating you exclude anyone but accept the fact that some peoples motives are not the same as yours and you should evaluate the people who want to be involved by their track record of what best represents the spirit of the event you are attempting to organize. I.E People that want to help other people with PVP.
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I have not seen Aphro in a long time, and he might have me on ignore anyway, but I will get the message to the other two if I can. Like I said, it's not like I really have the authority to tell people what to do, so it comes down to us as a community expressing what we want. I know mcluving has a melee build, and straight jacket has alts too. Hopefully they want to get new blood in pvp as much as we do, so everyone can agree to be civil for a few hours.
It sounds like a lot of people would rather see no ice nades, and maybe even no devices? I think that's a good idea, but it's up to the community to express what they want.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I have to disagree with you Nepht. You have known me a good bit now so please don't take any of what i'm about to say as a flame war etc.. The part of the playerbase you mentioned above exists in every game and while it may be what has caused a select view to not q it is not the entire issue.
1:PvP q's are low in part due to the bug I mentioned earlier(luckily there is a work around to that so we just need to spread the info)
2: The number of players required to make team pvp pop was raised to high and put under to many stipulations.
3: SG wars, this one here is a double edge sword. They can be great and bring alot of people to pvp but when the sportsmanship fades away they become more like a disease and do nothing but hurt pvp.
4: Developer outlook towards PvP since on alert.
5: Players being jaded due to that outlook
Anyways I can keep on listing things but that's not the point all i'm trying to say is lets work around and control what we can to try and bring some life back to a very fun part of the game.
ISO:
I'll help out in anyway I can just let me know.
In addition to what Darkon said, you have my personal assurance that everything will be rainbows and cupcakes from here on out. :biggrin:
Now if this is going towards theme PvP, things are different. And no, alien ninjas are not theme toons if you ask me.Am all in for it tho, have an EA build I wanted to try out...
Watch out with the orientation of this event...I'd propose t2 or t3 PvP events, where ATs can be useful too and gears aren't that OP.
I quit over my frustrations of what Crush did to the game. But I'm so glad you're here Sters to explain to the community everything Xeno.
I guess the video thing
The intent of Iso's thread is to work together to develop a core group of the community that will help to harbor in new PVP via organized events. And Ironically I was agreeing with your previous stated assumptions. However, certain people including yourself have measurable acts that undercut that effort, Example: During your troll video of spamming ice nades on Shug for over 15 mins you can actually see him typing the word "yawn" at around 11 mins and you only killed him at the end when he was typing "I'm leaving". Then you came to the forums to post this video for the obvious troll attempt it was. So I'm pointing out facts about yourself and other players that are substantiated by their actions that contradict the intention to help others in pvp.
I've helped and groomed countless players over 4 years into PVP. As the GL of one of the oldest PVP SG in the game I challenge you do better or substantiate anything other than forum trolls and videos of trolling people. I'm positive your response will be full of new insights into myself that booster your own self image but don't expect any future reply's that may derail the OP's thread any further. Besides, it's not like I need to convince anyone still left about why You or Mc Luvin is a troll, its why you can't show up in a Bash without getting farmed.
In fact, if we want to increase pvp, we should make events timed around when you log in since that seems to be when most everyone comes out to farm the forum troll.
-Xeno
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Relevant right? I won't comment on it here, since I don't think it will help the PvP community much. If you want to talk about it tho I'm all yours.
And no, haven't been part of DC/SoT for almost a year now. At one point they were ganking me too. Funny.
This is what we don't need if we're gonna go for new blood. I know at least 8 people who like duels and PvP in general, but can't stand the boring bashes. Most of them are inexperienced, but if we get serious on this, they would come.
Can you stop making us both look ridiculous for 1 second?
Still, I won't answer you here. You can keep it up tho.
I am willing to set aside my zealous hatred for most of the DC players in order to focus on this effort. Troll threads and rivalries may be what keep many of us engaged enough to log in, but at least this one thread deserves to be productive.
To that end, let's come up with some suggestions on how we can help make pvp events fun for as many people as possible.
For these events, I would suggest making alts that have sub-optimal gear (mercenary blues, r5 mods, no devices) and with powers/mechanics that you always wanted to play but were not up to par in terms of performance.
The rewards can be of similar quality as well. That way it will be easy to supply a lot players with gear that's not the absolute best but is OK.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
If you're serious about this idea, there is an even more radical option: revive pvp at tier 2 and tier 3.
Tier 2 used to be the main place I PvPed when the game launched, before I could compete up in tier 4. It has it's own set of frustrations, it's own version of fotm, but it always had more diversity than tier 4. It may seem unideal because not everyone is the same level, but that's not a huge issue. Most characters are hitting their stride by 14-16, by then they have a r3 attack and a toggle, etc. The fact that people constantly level out of the bracket encourages them to roll a different type of build next time, and it also discourages stacking expensive / hard to aquire gear. Tier 3 utc is great as well.
The biggest problem with these match types? We don't get to feel as powerful and awesome as we do in tier 4, but then that's similar to wearing blues.
I think that the use of Alerts for easy leveling undermines lower tier pvp. We, old school crowd, may be open to it. But why would a new player go for it.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
PvPing with sub optimal gears is good, until pps begim using legion ones to win. Won't you do the same then?
If we get a bunch of new pvp-ers interested enough that they want to be more competitive then we'll have accomplished something worthwhile.
I will always have my competitive alts available as an option for when I'd like to win.
But it will be good to keep even just one alt that is sub-optimal for times when the goal is to play with new pvp-ers and try whacky build ideas as opposed to when it is to be the biggest mudkipz in a tiny tiny pond.
Plus the only times I've been able to improve my more competitive builds and playstyle have been when I've played my more outlandish characters. So it's not a waste of time from that standpoint either.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Be really careful about this. A large amount of people got burnt out quickly after reaching this state.
Just say the word and i download this game again.
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It's fun to get people to duel with something different, but there will be someone who snaps their fingers, uses 2gm and blasts rimefire burst in your face also summons a plane out of nowhere. Then the name calling starts, someone gets frustrated and gets their own epic 2gm-snappyfinger-SR build and there we go again.
I am silver at the moment, so I would probably use my Unleashed, so that I have a slight chance of winning my opponent. But omg it uses force gaysir. xD iz dat ok?????
Okay well, yah. Good luck with this. I'm sure you will need it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
@Pallih in game
Those lower tiers are the best places for people to learn pvp instead of being thrown right into T4 and not having a clue.
feel free to add me in game to your friends list so i can keep you updated and make sure you are on channel (COPVP) for further info and updates and if you are muted we are working to get that resolved and give you a second chance.. i have already turned in a ticket with the gm's on the issue of un muting folks.
Pay 2 Win@RabidSquaw
1. If one of the new players happens to end up using a <insert all hated powers here> build, not because they heard it was the tippy tops, but just because they wanted to because it was fun... are people going to hate on them? are people going to say "those powers are not allowed!"... what if that ends up making them not interested in pvp because suddenly free form loses the "free"? ( An ironic problem yes, but it could happen).
2. What about us noobs who can't L2play? Will we be forced to make worse builds as well, effectively just putting us right back where we were, getting farmed by the pros?
3. Is someone going to make an official list of "banned" powers/combinations, or are we going to just go by "you know what they are" and then punish anyone who uses them because they doesn't know what they are? How effective is too effective?
4. How is this going to be enforced? In team sports its difficult to play "everyone farm the guy doing things we don't like". If you're planning to have this always consist of two premades fighting each other, then what happens if we get more than 10 people interested in pvp at one given time (granted, a wonderful problem we would love to have).
5. When are we going to institute an official "ZA Night"?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
^ I agree with this statement, Nepht now runs a build like this not because I want to be a s0pr0br0 but because it excels at tanking in PVE.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I don't think this needs to be enforced. From what I have read it looks like the older pvpers are deciding among themselves to just take it back to some of the better days of PvP. If some new player wants to try some of the powers that some of the pvpers consider cheap then thats on them.
We as players should not have to enforce or police ourselves outside of tournaments or something like that which we are hosting. The developers are the ones that should be stepping up in the places where any kind of enforcement is needed. All we can do is hold our self to a certain standard and let others do as they will.
As far as not being able to learn I don't think that will be an issue because there are plenty of people willing to help others out. Powers are not what make a good pvper, its how they use those powers and the tactics they use during pvp in general. You can put two exact builds next to one another and its not that hard to tell when the duel or pvper starts which one has put in the time.
As long as current PvPers get that the goal is get new players interested and not to go all dominatrix on everyone then that should be a good start. Hating on new players for just about any reason will undermine the entire point of the effort, so I would discourage people from doing this.
There are no set of powers that are allowed or disallowed. Maybe we'll end up having to do that but hopefully not. At this point we're just aiming for a marked improvement, but not perfection.
You can run whatever you want to run. We're just asking for more consideration for players who are even more new to this than you. And also asking people to keep in mind that the main goal here is to introduce players to pvp. If appealing to people's good nature ends up being not enough...then we'll need to figure out rules and "enforcement".
Nothing set in stone. Just use your judgement. Nobody that is not deliberately trolling the effort is going to get punished.
Ideally the only enforcement consists of moderating the copvp chat channel. But we'll see...if too many trolls etc get involved maybe we'll stick to team duels.
Would totally love ZA Night! Whenever we want!!
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Acceptin' loans till devices get unbinded (steals your money) ~...^
Ya know.. we still exist.. somewhere.
They tried that about 2-3 weeks ago. Guess what happened.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Ka ka!
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Was it a party? I bet it was a party. With cheap hookers and cheaper booze flowing all throughout the yard. Man, brings me back to my younger years..
Bummer, I have epilepsy so I have to leave the match if people are using pbr.
So... It was a new idea about 8 months ago because that's as far back as your PvP memory recall goes?
No... It's mostly tanks roaming the area looking for targets while the squishier ones fly high above the rest in constant teleport hoping that two tanks eventually start a fight between eachother.
Still, on the bright side, it's actually cool to wither someone down rather having to burst through it like hell in fear of the next MD or Ressurgence.
I'll try to get R.H.I.N.O. fixed up after the last fiasco.
No. It was around 8 or 9 months ago that me, rapid, king and this random PvE guy called max wanted to start team PvP and literally started thinking of a team build. It never really worked out though as we hit a number of obstacles and ofcourse we went from STAR to Team VNM and then to SPECTRE. I'm just saying, I'm happy that we are finally getting it all started.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Arghhhhhhahaha this means easier wins for me yes?
Jokin', k, do you have the same issues with Tk assault?