Wait, stop, hold the phones? I have 4 of the perminant water balloon devices with the 6s CD timer in Neverwinter that I, literally, got for PICKING FLOWERS and Champions Online, the game that has had players throwing water balloons at each other for YEARS, has to random it out of the lockbox? It's not earnable ingame? It's not actually a part of the content of the event?
....this makes me sad.
This lockbox has more slaps to the face than making fun of E.Honda's mother.
After the forum malvanum box and only getting the vehicle after 200+ boxes, I don't open boxes anymore. I buy keys when they sell low and sell keys when new boxes come up to purchase the drops directly from players. it sucks but that's what Champions Endgame is now.
As for the drop rate of the permanent party favors, they are fairly common in the lockboxes at least. Though they are replacing the guaranteed mod drops for some people.
How about this for a change to the lockbox business model: Take lockbox contents (other than equipment/gear) and after the event where the lockboxes appear and can no longer be obtained normally, place the costumes/vehicles/devices on the zstore for outright purchase. It will still get the people who want the equipment/gear buying the keys, but the people like me who do not want to gamble and don't care about the equipment can simply buy the costume pieces later, post event. That would get your the money from both sets of people.
If anyone thinks that is a bad idea, please say so since I had a couple tonight and not enough food to soak it up.
How about this for a change to the lockbox business model: Take lockbox contents (other than equipment/gear) and after the event where the lockboxes appear and can no longer be obtained normally, place the costumes/vehicles/devices on the zstore for outright purchase. It will still get the people who want the equipment/gear buying the keys, but the people like me who do not want to gamble and don't care about the equipment can simply buy the costume pieces later, post event. That would get your the money from both sets of people.
If anyone thinks that is a bad idea, please say so since I had a couple tonight and not enough food to soak it up.
Variations of this idea have been posted before periodically and totally ignored by PWE every time. I fully support this approach myself, but will be utterly shocked if this actually ever occurs.
Variations of this idea have been posted before periodically and totally ignored by PWE every time. I fully support this approach myself, but will be utterly shocked if this actually ever occurs.
They likely think that sales of lockboxes/keys would decline, as people stopped buying keys and waited instead. I disagree.
1. People are impatient. A LOT will still buy keys to get the new things NOW.
2. People who don't ever buy keys will start buying things that were previously unavailable, given their spending habits.
3. Some people will still buy keys, then direct buy the item after the lockbox ends, if they haven't got it yet.
4. Some people will still consider boxes a good deal. I personally like getting the mods and Drifter Salvage. I'd like a higher drop rate on the super rare stuff, but that's a matter for another post.
Various ways exist to retain the lockboxes' attractiveness, while adding direct purchases.
Additional time gates could be applied to further fuel the impatience of key-buyers. For example, the items go into the store at the start of the second box after (ex. Forum Malvanum box ends, Socrates box starts, Socrates box ends, Anniversary box starts, Forum Malvanum box items become available for direct purchase).
Some items could be left out. Vehicles in lockboxes usually have Drifter and Zen versions, so they could remain lockbox-only.
Reskinned versions of the Becomes (possibly with retooled powers) could be made for the Drifter and/or Zen stores, just like the vehicles currently are, leaving the lockbox vehicles and becomes as "premium" items. Only the costume set would go straight into the store.
Moving anything from the lockboxes to the C-Store after the lockbox ends will increase revenue; only a complete moron can't figure out that selling something you already have (and thus costs no development time) makes more money than not selling that item.
Sometimes I question Cryptic and PWE's common sense, but I haven't gotten to the point of calling them complete morons. Yet. Hopefully they'll deminstrate that they aren't.
_________________________________________________ @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Variations of this idea have been posted before periodically and totally ignored by PWE every time. I fully support this approach myself, but will be utterly shocked if this actually ever occurs.
TT has stated they don't want to do this because they feel it would be unfair to those who spent the money on keys. I have a good idea what this actually means but it would only be speculation.
I abandoned my faith in CO a long time ago. Now, this is just a really snazzy RP engine for me.
At this point, I just hope someone takes the little things CO did well and makes a better product. I hope they listen to their customers, and never kneel to the greedy slavering Asian MMORPG empire. I hope they communicate, without making promises but while instilling hope that the people working on this game give a damn about it. I hope they never have the audacity to advertise another game to me while they neglect the product I am using.
I hope Cryptic's ideas transfer, not their management.
I'm sorry, at this point it's pathetic. Go back to fixing bugs. If you're going to shovel gambles at us, I'd rather not see new things at all.
I hope they communicate, without making promises but while instilling hope that the people working on this game give a damn about it.
Okay, this line in particular I had to pull out, because of all the things you cited, it's one that can't really be laid at Cryptic's door. Almost every time Cryptic's said anything about their hopes for the future, or things they're planning but haven't solidified yet, there has been a huge swell of people posting about what they've just been "promised". And if the idea doesn't pan out for whatever reason (technology, time, whatever), we're immediately flooded by post after post decrying the way that Cryptic has "broken their promise again!", even though nothing was ever promised.
Case in point, the ideas they had for new Heavy Weapons; a few have been implemented, others haven't, but the point is that the concept art that was put up was for something the artist wanted to see, not a promise of what the company was going to do. And it's still being cited by some as an example of a "broken promise." (I just cite it as an example of something I'd still like to see happen, and would even spend Zen to get, hint hint.)
Eventually, it became plain that the only way to slow (not even stop) the proliferation of such threads, and the badmouthing they promulgated, was to stop telling us about their ideas altogether. Sure, that gives the impression that they're not working on anything at all, but that accusation was already being made anyway.
So, that particular one is really more the players' fault than the company's, and there's no reason to expect that to unfold any differently in the future. (Companies like Blizzard and EA can get away with it because they already have a rep built up from years and years of making and selling other games; by the time WoW had come out, Blizzard was already pulling down major bucks from four or five iterations of Warcrack and Starcrack, while EA has been making games so long that I remember what their logo looked like on my C-64. People badmouthing them for "breaking promises" can't hit their existing bottom lines that hard. Cryptic doesn't have that kind of history, or pockets quite so deep as that.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Missed my point, Jon. I don't want anyone making promises (Within reason). I do, however, want someone that says 'Hey, we're trying to make X happen' while it's actually a possibility.
Seriously.
You people complaining about yet another lockbox are acting like it wasn't a Cryptic game and you weren't playing it before and knowing this company all too well.
No, really.
Anyone is surprised? Shocked? As if it was something new? Why?
It's Cryptic Studios, it was pretty much given. :biggrin:
Missed my point, Jon. I don't want anyone making promises (Within reason). I do, however, want someone that says 'Hey, we're trying to make X happen' while it's actually a possibility.
Oh, yes, and I quite agree. However, there's a substantial, quite vocal subgroup who believe that any such statement is in fact a promise that it will happen, and who become very loudly disappointed and begin badmouthing the game even more if it doesn't. So, to avoid that particular variety of bad publicity, it's easier for the company to simply refuse to permit any of its employees to discuss any plans that aren't already concrete.
Yes, there is then the perception that nothing's being done and the game's stagnating - but as you may have noticed, that happens even when they do discuss plans; this way, at least they're not catching it on both ends.
So like I said, that's not so much on Cryptic (who can't afford to have that much badmouthing floating around) as it is on some of the players. The other things? Those can be laid on Cryptic itself...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Seriously.
You people complaining about yet another lockbox are acting like it wasn't a Cryptic game and you weren't playing it before and knowing this company all too well.
No, really.
Anyone is surprised? Shocked? As if it was something new? Why?
It's Cryptic Studios, it was pretty much given. :biggrin:
Lockboxes are PWE not Cryptic. Before PWE took over we didn't have to put up with this Lockbox BS.
Oh, I totally agree. I don't like the word 'promise'. I don't call anything a 'promise' unless it is literally 'promised'. As in, "Champions, I promise we will be getting a new lockbox in October!" To me, that's a promise.
Now, what -does- bother me? When we're told they're working on something, and it vanishes, despite how often we talk about it. Like the Vladic Dracul missions we were expecting in 2011 that got canceled, and we didn't find out until it slipped much later. If they're going to work on something, advertise it, and get us pumped- the least they can do is make an announcement when they won't be able to deliver.
That's not really a broken promise, but it still comes off as a bit lousy.
And Cryptic North has yet to greet this community. People ask why I don't respect CO. Well, I'll try to give a damn about it when the people working on it show they do. I don't lick my chops for scraps.
The 'badmouthing' on these forums from people isn't unique to Cryptic, though in Cryptic's case, while not deserving of everything said, brought a lot of this on themselves, but digging themselves into a hole at launch. It wouldn't hurt Cryptic North to come onto the forums and at least introduce themselves to us.
There are companies whose forums are far worse then anything we've seen here. Yet those companies still manage to communicate what is going on with the game through detailed patch notes, interviews, regular interaction with the playerbase through the forums/social media. Sometimes taking the easiest route isn't the best, especially when it comes to handling customer relations.
All one needs to do is take a look the websites of some of the more successful mmos and then come back to CO's website to see the difference.
Yes. Lockboxes are typical for all PWE games.
But how it's handled in CO is different than rest PWE games.
And frankly, much worse.
I'm pretty sure that lockboxes were PWE idea laid with a very little direction, but the whole execution was left to Cryptic.
And here we are.
Umm, in a way they kind'a are. They are told what they can and can't do, and are given little to no budget. So I won't harp on them about that and will defend them some of the time.
What they are guilty of is the attitudes around here witht he community. They do deserve alot of flack for mis-managing the game to the point where we are so vocal about the state of this game.
liek with what cybersoldier1981 said above. There is a lot of truth in his words.
There are companies whose forums are far worse then anything we've seen here. Yet those companies still manage to communicate what is going on with the game through detailed patch notes, interviews, regular interaction with the playerbase through the forums/social media.
Because those companies have sufficient funding from other sources that losing a subscriber or two because of either the game itself or the badmouthing of it isn't that big a deal. WoW, for instance, has lost something on the order of two million subscribers over the past year or so; but since that still leaves them with ten million, and since Blizzard isn't sunk completely into its MMO, that doesn't threaten their bottom line the way an equivalent loss would hurt Cryptic.
EA, for another example, gets a lot of flak, and deservedly so, for a lot of their business practices - but they're deeply entrenched in the business, and seem unlikely to become so stuck by a single point of criticism that it might cause bankruptcy. Instead, they can afford to make "promises" and then let them slide, because people will buy their games anyway.
Cryptic doesn't have that luxury. They can't absorb loss of business from so-called "promise-breaking" - so they take the easier way out, which is to say nothing at all about plans for the future. That way, nobody gets to accuse them of "promising" anything. (Sure, that leads to more complaints about the game "going nowhere" and "stagnating" - but they were getting that anyway. Hell, there are people complaining about that in the STO forums, when they just got a fairly major expansion not so very long ago. There seems to be no way to avoid that one.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Because those companies have sufficient funding from other sources that losing a subscriber or two because of either the game itself or the badmouthing of it isn't that big a deal. WoW, for instance, has lost something on the order of two million subscribers over the past year or so; but since that still leaves them with ten million, and since Blizzard isn't sunk completely into its MMO, that doesn't threaten their bottom line the way an equivalent loss would hurt Cryptic.
Blizzard wasn't always where it is today. They worked at getting their products to the point where they are today, by not only releasing, imo, quality games but also by keeping communication open with the player base. They earned the reputation they have, same with EA.
Cryptic has also earned the reputation it has. Atari and PWE certainly haven't done them any favors, but they are still responsible for where they are today.
I don't usually make posts, but when I do it usually has some weighted feelings to go behind it. I got into this game several years ago generally excited about logging on the next time to see the creative, well thought out content that was put out. This past few months, or year at most, has been some of the most disappointing times I have seen from the developers. I understand the funds for this game is not so hefty, but this game hasn't shown the need to put funds into it with what it has recently put out. I think the biggest shot in the foot is the whole F2P system that you switched over to. If the game was still a subscription based environment then you would see people actually funneling their interests into this game, in my opinion.
The next bullet you put into that chamber was the fact that the new content is so small and weekly based that it fails to create attention and hype that this game needs. The whole Malvanium Forum event was disgraceful to say the least, the biggest idea placed towards that would be to create a "Planet Hulk" theme where the heroes were tossed onto a gladiatorial planet and then transported to the Malvanium Coliseum or something more battle oriented than just a fourth city track that you used to blindly try to divert our eyes from the lack of creativity. Granted, you did redeem yourselves with the Fatal Error missions but the content of the game is lacking severally. My biggest advice is look and get advice from the styles that were done when Serpent Lantern, Demonflame, Resistance, Whiteout, and Aftershock used when they came out.
The next, and probably second biggest bullet, I have seen is the whole concept of cramming costumes into lock boxes. This has got to be the single most IDIOTIC way to earn revenue in my opinion. I personally, along with fellow players, do not find any desire or drive to spend my stipend or resources to buy a key to be able to gamble a slim chance to get a costume part. I generally found the drive by waiting for my stipend and judging which costume set to purchase from the Z-Store. The Z-Store is there for more than just a place to house your stupid "Cosmic Keys". On behalf of my stipend, put your costumes into the Z-Store and you will most definitely get a bigger turnout and purchase form that. The lockboxes, in my opinion, should be used for devices, vehicle, and vehicle based modifications. The lockboxes would seem more worthwhile if you took the vehicles out and made them a gamble instead of individual costume pieces.
All and All, the general loyal players of this game want to see this game changed for the better, but that isn't going to be done by subjecting us to this gamble most don't even want to participate in. If you want to gain bigger funds, put the costumes in a set and into the Z-Store where they belong.
Cryptic has also earned the reputation it has. Atari and PWE certainly haven't done them any favors, but they are still responsible for where they are today.
Truth.
I could forgive the massive amounts of lockboxes, if they'd be honest and say 'this is how we intend to release costumes'. At least then I could just write off giving this game another red cent.
I could forgive the massive amount of bugs, if they'd have actually came out and said they were aware of them and were intending to work on them- and yes, I'm quite aware that they are working on them now, but some of these bugs have been around since launch.
I could forgive the borked powersets if they showed any indication they'd listened to people who'd tested them and offered advice, but instead they chose to just hurl them out live without any real reason why they're in the shape they are now.
No, you can't pin this all on PWE. Limited budget and forced gamble-scams are one thing, and I get that. But Cryptic has shown that they care very, very little about this game.
When it does crash and burn, I will NOT be playing another Cryptic game. As it stands right now, I cannot recommend this game or any other Cryptic game to a friend unless they want to RP.
So Jon, in a very condensed nutshell you're basically saying that Cryptic's current options are to:
1) Fail outloud where people know what they failed at doing.
-or-
2) Fail in silence where we might someday discover(Brou's thread for example) the remnants of failed projects.
And you're saying that the kind of negative feedback they would receive on the forums from the customer base, that they mostly ignore anyways, is the major determining factor in whether they(not including TT, of course) communicate with us or not?
Now I tend to be pretty down the middle objective as much as possible but...wow...that's a pretty horrible scenario. Sure some of the doomies on the forums(and some of the cheerleaders) are a lil on the mentally unstable side(not all, mind you, but some) and can get downright viral in their crusades but at the end of the day it's people on a forum. I would think/hope/pray that as TT goes through the threads and occasionally says,"Hey, I'm passing this up the chain," that those ideas would have at least generated some kind of positive results. It's not so much the ones who expect the world as it is the little things and basic decisions which have impacted this game and lead Cryptic, not so much Atari who did impose unfair deadlines and PWE who said make the grabbag/lockboxes as you see fit, to pretty much drive this game to where it is now IMO.
A prime example of this is about to have a Birthday. I have gone on the record multiple times and told devs more than a few times that the SECOND the demise of CoX was announced that all projects should have been put on suspension for 'Bug Month." That polishing this game as much as humanly possible and, so to speak, getting "all our ducks in a row" to be THE destination for the CoX Refugees was a fairly obvious decision and should have been implimented at that momment. While I am glad that this is happening now(results yet to be seen, of course) it's not going to have the potential economic impact for this title that it would have had last year. This, IMO, was a catastrophic misstep which potentially resulted in the loss of untold profits. This was basically trying to look like nobody was home when the prize patrol knocked on the door with the big check.
Speaking of money, I see alot of threads on these forums with, "Well, if they would put X in the Z-Store then <opens wallet>." Many people said this about emotes and when they finally did come I know quite a few people who bought them. Heck, I own the emote kit. I own half the Travel Powers(I only buy what I need to make concept and some of them either don't make that concept or are horrible like Cape Glide and Skull Flight so I'll never get them). I own all the costume sets in the game except the emblem kits(because they're hideous) and things I can get with 5k perks(because that's CONTENT and I won't buy my way out of doing content). I bought exactly one vehicle and that's because it came with a helm I like(still left a bad taste though to be honest) and I have no plans of buying any additional vehicles/becomes...because I can build a toon and becomes do not appeal to me since you cannot even move the powers around into a useable format IMO. I don't buy consumables because I have no need for them. I don't buy keys because I am one of, if not the, unluckiest people when it comes to MMO RNG so, to me, that is a complete waste. I do not gamble not because I am somehow morally against it...but because there is no chance I would win. Therefore, I don't play that aspect of the game.
But then I see all these people saying the above statement and I wonder why don't they at least put some things people say they would buy in the Z-Store just as a marketing test to "call their bluff." Put a costume set in the Z-Store(this does not mean stop making the ones ingame btw). If all the people who have made such claims in the past, myself included, shell out then they make money. Even a one time thing as a market test is worth it IMO. And it's not just the forums. I see people in zonechat(when I have that thing turned on) basically begging Cryptic to make things they can throw money at.
Also, and this is a tiny bit off subject but I've always wondered so I'll mention it, I would be very curious to see the key sales vs. key usage spreadsheets. How many people are actually buying keys to open these lockboxes vs. how many of these people are buying keys to use as alternate cash forms because they're capped silvers? Also, how many people are using keys as a means to use RL cash to obtain ingame globals? Is this a case of people loving the lockboxes or a case of people using the Official Gold Selling Mechanics to obtain wealth via actual money? Now don't get me wrong, it's their money and players who wish to do this are within their rights to do so because the system exists and shows no real signs of going anywhere. I do not believe it's some kind of exploit to use the gold seller mechanics that are basically provided to the players as an option. It's classic Time vs. Effort Mechanics which alot of these microtransaction MMOs are built upon. I, personally, do not partake of such mechanics myself but that is also my right as a player. Besides, those Unity folks would get pretty lonely if I wasn't there to farm their missions.
Lastly, and I'll say it again because I do not think it can be said enough, the reason I am against this particular lockbox is mainly because I picked flowers in the "New" game to get a perminant device with a 6s CD Timer which throws unlimited Water Balloons only to beg for such a thing here in the game where we have a tradition of throwing water balloons...and then get such an item with a 10s CD Timer in a Lockbox. To me this is a slap in the face to the loyal CO Players and one which I do not feel I can complain enough about(although I do not think such actions will accomplish anything which kind of saddens me). It is also for this reason that even though I have 3 LvL 60s and a LvL 47 in this other game...I will likely never spend a single dime to support it until such time as that game's existence improves CO in some way. I simply play because I have friends there, the chat accross Cryptic games is connected, and they have content atm. If I had my way I'd much rather be playing CO and that may very well become a reality after these bug fixes(assuming they hit anything remotely important) and the Mythical Cryptic North shell out something of any lasting significance. Course, as a vet, I'm kinda low on hope these days so it pretty much has to hit Live before I believe it's happening. I'm just way too far beyond the times of stories and PTS to believe such things are in any way a concrete translation of what the future of this game holds.
And now I've probably gone on more than enough so...next person. :biggrin:
What I'm saying is, if they tell us about their ideas before said ideas become solid plans with dates and everything, and then the ideas don't pan out, people in the forums are going to start screaming about "broken promises". And the suits don't want to hear about that. So the easiest way to avoid it is for the suits to forbid anyone to discuss ideas in public. Having been on the receiving end of such a policy, I'm pretty sure the devs would love to tell us all about the new stuff they're trying to implement - but they'd love to keep their jobs even more.
So, you want to have a developer who'll discuss their ideas openly? You'll need to have one where this product is a small enough thing overall that the suits aren't monitoring things that closely. And that doesn't describe Cryptic, because they have exactly three products.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
1. I doubt the suits monitor this game beyond the profit margins until someone says otherwise. Heck, I don't even know if Jack remembers this game. He certainly doesn't act like it.
2. I believe there is a middle ground between "Pipe Dreams" and things actually actively being worked on by the, apparently we have one now, team. The level of communication could rise up to that level as well as stretching out the release schedule so things can hit PTS on a Monday and not have to be pushed Live on either the coming Thursday or the next one. I can't tell you how many times people have put in PTS work, pointed out bugs, and the basic reply has been(to paraphrase), "No time, hurry hurry hurry!"
2b. And some ideas, I'm sorry, are just BAD. If they hit PTS with the time and testing to make them work and they hit sooner then alot of wasted dev time could possibly be redirected to better projects in CO. This isn't me saying that something like Fatal Error was bad based on opinion(I liked it BTW) but look at things in the past like the original EB/Block Pass and the V1 Pet Pass which both had to all but be completely redone because they were horrible. Look at Fire and Ice, Look at The "New" Sidekicking System (which, if it had worked and not vanished, I still don't know how it didn't suck a bag of rocks through a paper straw), and other such projects which hit PTS and then faded into limbo. This is why, sometimes, I think the communication issues aren't just that of those between the playerbase and Cryptic but also of Cryptic and Cryptic. Remember Robo's reply when asked about the "Legacy Vendor"? It was basically, "The what?" That guy, who did a rockstar job I might add and was quite nice, had no idea what we were talking about and he was the EP. :eek:
3. Communication can be done right. Just look at all the venom on the forums and such that you talk about and then look at the responses people like H20Rat, Tumerboy, and TrailTurtle have gotten from just talking to us. Heck, only one of those was a CR. When one of those three would log into the game sure there was the occasional nimrod giving them trouble but, for the most part, the community was happy to see them. TT, for example, can run a stream where he all but tells us NOTHING we don't already know and yet people will log into that chat, make jokes, and have a good time. It shows that someone gives a damn.
Shortly after they announced the Cryptic accounts would be fully integrated into the PW system, there was a worry of region locks brought on by PW system.
We were told they would be going into a meeting to discuss it, and we didn't hear anything for almost a year. Yes the issue was resolved, but in that time not one CR took the time to come in and give us an update. It was't until TT was brought on that we finally got the answer.
A similar event happened when players began reporting a problem with the conversion from gold to silver (and silver to gold) system. At first they didn't even acknowledge a problem, some players were reporting that CS was telling them that this was working as intended. It was about 2 or 3 months of silence until we finally got a fix. Meanwhile during those months of silence CS was telling players they could fix their issue by buying the retrain tokens.
While they were resolved, but the point of this is with how much time it took. Yes this has gotten better with TT around, as you have said he is one of the best CR's we've had. (I place Daeke up there too, afterall he stuck his neck out for us and was made a scapegoat)
Silence can be just as dangerous as over hyping a feature that may or may not make it into the game.
(I place Daeke up there too, afterall he stuck his neck out for us and was made a scapegoat)
OK, maybe I missed a memo somewhere but is there any proof that anything even remotely resembling that actually happened? From what I've been able to piece together over the years this seems(if I am wrong then please correct me) to be nothing more than an urban legend that cropped up due to the "Vibora Pay" issue and Daeke's departure from the company.
Now, I understand professionalism and how it would not be right for the company to discuss the dismissal of one of their employees but I've also heard some people on the forums say this and...I've just never seen any proof on the issue to be honest.
To my knowledge the only thing Daeke ever did for the community was to supply some AFs(Retro Destroyer) for the, at the time, widely popular player run events known as "Where in The World is Carmel Santiago?" Being someone who worked heavily on said project I am quite grateful for his contributions to it's success. At least that much I know to be true.
OK, maybe I missed a memo somewhere but is there any proof that anything even remotely resembling that actually happened? From what I've been able to piece together over the years this seems(if I am wrong then please correct me) to be nothing more than an urban legend that cropped up due to the "Vibora Pay" issue and Daeke's departure from the company.
Now, I understand professionalism and how it would not be right for the company to discuss the dismissal of one of their employees but I've also heard some people on the forums say this and...I've just never seen any proof on the issue to be honest.
To my knowledge the only thing Daeke ever did for the community was to supply some AFs(Retro Destroyer) for the, at the time, widely popular player run events known as "Where in The World is Carmel Santiago?" Being someone who worked heavily on said project I am quite grateful for his contributions to it's success. At least that much I know to be true.
I don't think we'll ever have definitive proof, but circumstanial stuff, there is tons of it. I think (after all we can only guess) it was a culmination of events, all happening shortly before his departure.
1. Vibora Pay: I firmly believe that Daeke thought he was communicating an official message, mistakenly thinking the plan to charge players for it was set in stone.
2. Bears and Charity: You have a long memory, I'm guessing you remember this. Daeke endorsed and advertised something that appeared on the launcher during the holidays in 2009/2010. It involved a "charity" event where a person who collected an amount of holiday items would buy something and donate it to a (as yet still unnamed/undetermined) organization. How Daeke fell for this is beyond me, because there is absolutely zero correlation between collection of in game items and one's ability to give to a charitable foundation or endeavor.
3. Exposure of #2. When revealed that #2 didn't make a lick of sense, and perhaps pressed on the issue by his superiors, I think that was the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back.
I'm just speculating of course, but as all 3 things above occurred during a relatively short timeframe before his termination, I think it's a fair guess. For the record I thought Daeke was a fairly good representative, except he should have been a little more thoughtful about the what and who of #2.
*edit
** In retrospect looking back they didn't offer him a chance to resign first and give him an out. To my knowledge that has only happened here twice unless I've forgotten something. Puzzling.
I do remember point 2 and 3 since I was one of the single most vocal people on that particular issue but it wasn't so much Daeke on that one(at least visually). No, that particular branch on the stupid tree belongs to Jack. I'd show you but..."Archived poster" and all that.
And, in all honesty, Daeke probably is number 2 on my list of CRs but the gap between second place and 1st place is The Grand Canyon. Also, the only reason Tumer didn't bury Daeke on my list was he was not a CR....or he would have been number 2. :biggrin:
OK, maybe I missed a memo somewhere but is there any proof that anything even remotely resembling that actually happened? From what I've been able to piece together over the years this seems(if I am wrong then please correct me) to be nothing more than an urban legend that cropped up due to the "Vibora Pay" issue and Daeke's departure from the company.
Now, I understand professionalism and how it would not be right for the company to discuss the dismissal of one of their employees but I've also heard some people on the forums say this and...I've just never seen any proof on the issue to be honest.
To my knowledge the only thing Daeke ever did for the community was to supply some AFs(Retro Destroyer) for the, at the time, widely popular player run events known as "Where in The World is Carmel Santiago?" Being someone who worked heavily on said project I am quite grateful for his contributions to it's success. At least that much I know to be true.
Unfortunately no Cryptic has denied the claims, it is something that has been speculated since he was let go almost immediately after stating that Vibora Bay was going to have a fee attached to it. Which of course caused quite a bit of hostility in the forums. Late of course they stated that Vibora bay was free. What story is true is likely something we will never know for sure.
As for what Daeke did I don't really remember, I do remember the events and I vaguely remember he was fairly active on the forums til around the time of the Vibora bay stuff began.
As to point 2 that Lafury brought up, I remember that and I remember who started it. It is not unheard of for people or companies to run a promotion where if customers buy X amount of Y product they will donate a certain amount of money or contribute something to a charity. In this case it was a Children's Network (if memory serves me), and he did actually send me an image of the bears, now what happened to them after that is anyone's guess.
Lack of evidence doesn't necessarily prove or disprove something did or did not happen. But anyway enough of that back on track, it is all of these little things that have added up over time and they are why Cryptic has the reputation, and I feel are why there is such 'hostility' on the forums directed at Cryptic.
And you couldn't release the VTOL as a standalone in the Z-store...WHY, exactly?
That aside, I want it so bad. ;A; *grabby hands*
This gets asked EVERY SINGLE TIME a new vehicle comes out, and I've given the same answer every time:
They put it in the lockbox first, to get the Key sales from people who will dump any amount into "MUST HAVE NAO!"
Then they put a modified version into the Drifter Store for the people who will pay for Keys to open lockboxes for a less gamble-y method of obtaining it.
THEN they put another modified version (with less slots, usually weaker pre-slotted weapons, and no 10% buff that the lockbox and Drifter versions get) into the Cash Store.
So far, the only one I've been wrong about was the Chariot; for some reason there was no Drifter version.
Why would this one (or any future vehicles, for that matter) be any different?
_________________________________________________ @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Yes. Lockboxes are typical for all PWE games.
But how it's handled in CO is different than rest PWE games.
And frankly, much worse.
I'm pretty sure that lockboxes were PWE idea laid with a very little direction, but the whole execution was left to Cryptic.
And here we are.
I think lockboxes wouldn't be that big problem if we also get some REAL content like all other games get. So the real problem is that lockboxes here are simply the ONLY content we got since On Alert.
Ok .. we also got the Power Armor, Wizard and Nighthawk Set after On Alert i think .. before it really started with the the lockbox-terror and nothing else.
I think lockboxes wouldn't be that big problem if we also get some REAL content like all other games get. So the real problem is that lockboxes here are simply the ONLY content we got since On Alert.
This.
In STO and NW, gambleboxes are a means to an end. In CO, gambleboxes are the end.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
thats a very bad idea. lifers should not be able to open lockboxes for free. the whole lockbox system is a bad idea, that would just make it worse.
But lifers DO get to open lockboxes for free. Five boxes a month, or eleven every two months, or 100 every 18 months, depending on how long they want to save up their stipend.
_________________________________________________ @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
thats a very bad idea. lifers should not be able to open lockboxes for free. the whole lockbox system is a bad idea, that would just make it worse.
First off, I never said LTS, so do not misconstrue what I said.
I said subscribers so this would be Gold players as well. I also said that IF such a thing were to happen the lockbox implementation would have to be changed.
As it stands now, anyone with Zen in sufficient quantity can open a lockbox whenever they like.
To open boxes for free, really for free without Zen would require an implementation change (as I previously said).
Perhaps granting subscribers a limited amount of cosmic keys every month and lowering lockbox drop rates or altering their contents.
When you think about it though, getting a stipend of 500Z a month -can- be 5 keys to open five boxes. So it is practically already in place.
what I THOUGHT you meant, since you mentioned DCUO, is lifers being able to open lockboxes FOR FREE, at ANY TIME.
even if this was extended to all gold players its still a bad idea.
I have a friend who plays DCUO all I know is that lockboxes are sometimes free to open for them. It was an example which was misinterpreted in this instance.
I think in other games like DCUO, people who are subscribed get lockboxes which can be opened for free or something?
I reckon when and IF we get more content (as well as existing content fixes) lockboxes should be changed implementation wise.
Yes in DCUO, a subscriber can open all lockboxes with out spending any extra money. It is one of the 'perks' of being a subscriber over there, along with the free dlcs, a monthly stipend, and all the other conveniences that one would come to expect from a subscription in a f2p game.
Comments
....this makes me sad.
This lockbox has more slaps to the face than making fun of E.Honda's mother.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
As for the drop rate of the permanent party favors, they are fairly common in the lockboxes at least. Though they are replacing the guaranteed mod drops for some people.
If anyone thinks that is a bad idea, please say so since I had a couple tonight and not enough food to soak it up.
...
Go eat. You might get more bright ideas.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Variations of this idea have been posted before periodically and totally ignored by PWE every time. I fully support this approach myself, but will be utterly shocked if this actually ever occurs.
This man speaks the truth unfortunately.
They likely think that sales of lockboxes/keys would decline, as people stopped buying keys and waited instead. I disagree.
1. People are impatient. A LOT will still buy keys to get the new things NOW.
2. People who don't ever buy keys will start buying things that were previously unavailable, given their spending habits.
3. Some people will still buy keys, then direct buy the item after the lockbox ends, if they haven't got it yet.
4. Some people will still consider boxes a good deal. I personally like getting the mods and Drifter Salvage. I'd like a higher drop rate on the super rare stuff, but that's a matter for another post.
Various ways exist to retain the lockboxes' attractiveness, while adding direct purchases.
Additional time gates could be applied to further fuel the impatience of key-buyers. For example, the items go into the store at the start of the second box after (ex. Forum Malvanum box ends, Socrates box starts, Socrates box ends, Anniversary box starts, Forum Malvanum box items become available for direct purchase).
Some items could be left out. Vehicles in lockboxes usually have Drifter and Zen versions, so they could remain lockbox-only.
Reskinned versions of the Becomes (possibly with retooled powers) could be made for the Drifter and/or Zen stores, just like the vehicles currently are, leaving the lockbox vehicles and becomes as "premium" items. Only the costume set would go straight into the store.
Moving anything from the lockboxes to the C-Store after the lockbox ends will increase revenue; only a complete moron can't figure out that selling something you already have (and thus costs no development time) makes more money than not selling that item.
Sometimes I question Cryptic and PWE's common sense, but I haven't gotten to the point of calling them complete morons. Yet. Hopefully they'll deminstrate that they aren't.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
"The return of the Hovertank Arsenal Cache"
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
TT has stated they don't want to do this because they feel it would be unfair to those who spent the money on keys. I have a good idea what this actually means but it would only be speculation.
Or maybe we can buy the bug-fixes next time in a lock-box .. isn't that a great idea :biggrin:
At this point, I just hope someone takes the little things CO did well and makes a better product. I hope they listen to their customers, and never kneel to the greedy slavering Asian MMORPG empire. I hope they communicate, without making promises but while instilling hope that the people working on this game give a damn about it. I hope they never have the audacity to advertise another game to me while they neglect the product I am using.
I hope Cryptic's ideas transfer, not their management.
I'm sorry, at this point it's pathetic. Go back to fixing bugs. If you're going to shovel gambles at us, I'd rather not see new things at all.
Case in point, the ideas they had for new Heavy Weapons; a few have been implemented, others haven't, but the point is that the concept art that was put up was for something the artist wanted to see, not a promise of what the company was going to do. And it's still being cited by some as an example of a "broken promise." (I just cite it as an example of something I'd still like to see happen, and would even spend Zen to get, hint hint.)
Eventually, it became plain that the only way to slow (not even stop) the proliferation of such threads, and the badmouthing they promulgated, was to stop telling us about their ideas altogether. Sure, that gives the impression that they're not working on anything at all, but that accusation was already being made anyway.
So, that particular one is really more the players' fault than the company's, and there's no reason to expect that to unfold any differently in the future. (Companies like Blizzard and EA can get away with it because they already have a rep built up from years and years of making and selling other games; by the time WoW had come out, Blizzard was already pulling down major bucks from four or five iterations of Warcrack and Starcrack, while EA has been making games so long that I remember what their logo looked like on my C-64. People badmouthing them for "breaking promises" can't hit their existing bottom lines that hard. Cryptic doesn't have that kind of history, or pockets quite so deep as that.)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Missed my point, Jon. I don't want anyone making promises (Within reason). I do, however, want someone that says 'Hey, we're trying to make X happen' while it's actually a possibility.
You people complaining about yet another lockbox are acting like it wasn't a Cryptic game and you weren't playing it before and knowing this company all too well.
No, really.
Anyone is surprised? Shocked? As if it was something new? Why?
It's Cryptic Studios, it was pretty much given. :biggrin:
Yes, there is then the perception that nothing's being done and the game's stagnating - but as you may have noticed, that happens even when they do discuss plans; this way, at least they're not catching it on both ends.
So like I said, that's not so much on Cryptic (who can't afford to have that much badmouthing floating around) as it is on some of the players. The other things? Those can be laid on Cryptic itself...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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that actually made me lol for real.
Lockboxes are PWE not Cryptic. Before PWE took over we didn't have to put up with this Lockbox BS.
Now, what -does- bother me? When we're told they're working on something, and it vanishes, despite how often we talk about it. Like the Vladic Dracul missions we were expecting in 2011 that got canceled, and we didn't find out until it slipped much later. If they're going to work on something, advertise it, and get us pumped- the least they can do is make an announcement when they won't be able to deliver.
That's not really a broken promise, but it still comes off as a bit lousy.
And Cryptic North has yet to greet this community. People ask why I don't respect CO. Well, I'll try to give a damn about it when the people working on it show they do. I don't lick my chops for scraps.
There are companies whose forums are far worse then anything we've seen here. Yet those companies still manage to communicate what is going on with the game through detailed patch notes, interviews, regular interaction with the playerbase through the forums/social media. Sometimes taking the easiest route isn't the best, especially when it comes to handling customer relations.
All one needs to do is take a look the websites of some of the more successful mmos and then come back to CO's website to see the difference.
People realy need to stop justify Cryptic.
They aren't any victim of Atari, or PWE.
Yes. Lockboxes are typical for all PWE games.
But how it's handled in CO is different than rest PWE games.
And frankly, much worse.
I'm pretty sure that lockboxes were PWE idea laid with a very little direction, but the whole execution was left to Cryptic.
And here we are.
Umm, in a way they kind'a are. They are told what they can and can't do, and are given little to no budget. So I won't harp on them about that and will defend them some of the time.
What they are guilty of is the attitudes around here witht he community. They do deserve alot of flack for mis-managing the game to the point where we are so vocal about the state of this game.
liek with what cybersoldier1981 said above. There is a lot of truth in his words.
EA, for another example, gets a lot of flak, and deservedly so, for a lot of their business practices - but they're deeply entrenched in the business, and seem unlikely to become so stuck by a single point of criticism that it might cause bankruptcy. Instead, they can afford to make "promises" and then let them slide, because people will buy their games anyway.
Cryptic doesn't have that luxury. They can't absorb loss of business from so-called "promise-breaking" - so they take the easier way out, which is to say nothing at all about plans for the future. That way, nobody gets to accuse them of "promising" anything. (Sure, that leads to more complaints about the game "going nowhere" and "stagnating" - but they were getting that anyway. Hell, there are people complaining about that in the STO forums, when they just got a fairly major expansion not so very long ago. There seems to be no way to avoid that one.)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Blizzard wasn't always where it is today. They worked at getting their products to the point where they are today, by not only releasing, imo, quality games but also by keeping communication open with the player base. They earned the reputation they have, same with EA.
Cryptic has also earned the reputation it has. Atari and PWE certainly haven't done them any favors, but they are still responsible for where they are today.
I don't usually make posts, but when I do it usually has some weighted feelings to go behind it. I got into this game several years ago generally excited about logging on the next time to see the creative, well thought out content that was put out. This past few months, or year at most, has been some of the most disappointing times I have seen from the developers. I understand the funds for this game is not so hefty, but this game hasn't shown the need to put funds into it with what it has recently put out. I think the biggest shot in the foot is the whole F2P system that you switched over to. If the game was still a subscription based environment then you would see people actually funneling their interests into this game, in my opinion.
The next bullet you put into that chamber was the fact that the new content is so small and weekly based that it fails to create attention and hype that this game needs. The whole Malvanium Forum event was disgraceful to say the least, the biggest idea placed towards that would be to create a "Planet Hulk" theme where the heroes were tossed onto a gladiatorial planet and then transported to the Malvanium Coliseum or something more battle oriented than just a fourth city track that you used to blindly try to divert our eyes from the lack of creativity. Granted, you did redeem yourselves with the Fatal Error missions but the content of the game is lacking severally. My biggest advice is look and get advice from the styles that were done when Serpent Lantern, Demonflame, Resistance, Whiteout, and Aftershock used when they came out.
The next, and probably second biggest bullet, I have seen is the whole concept of cramming costumes into lock boxes. This has got to be the single most IDIOTIC way to earn revenue in my opinion. I personally, along with fellow players, do not find any desire or drive to spend my stipend or resources to buy a key to be able to gamble a slim chance to get a costume part. I generally found the drive by waiting for my stipend and judging which costume set to purchase from the Z-Store. The Z-Store is there for more than just a place to house your stupid "Cosmic Keys". On behalf of my stipend, put your costumes into the Z-Store and you will most definitely get a bigger turnout and purchase form that. The lockboxes, in my opinion, should be used for devices, vehicle, and vehicle based modifications. The lockboxes would seem more worthwhile if you took the vehicles out and made them a gamble instead of individual costume pieces.
All and All, the general loyal players of this game want to see this game changed for the better, but that isn't going to be done by subjecting us to this gamble most don't even want to participate in. If you want to gain bigger funds, put the costumes in a set and into the Z-Store where they belong.
Truth.
I could forgive the massive amounts of lockboxes, if they'd be honest and say 'this is how we intend to release costumes'. At least then I could just write off giving this game another red cent.
I could forgive the massive amount of bugs, if they'd have actually came out and said they were aware of them and were intending to work on them- and yes, I'm quite aware that they are working on them now, but some of these bugs have been around since launch.
I could forgive the borked powersets if they showed any indication they'd listened to people who'd tested them and offered advice, but instead they chose to just hurl them out live without any real reason why they're in the shape they are now.
No, you can't pin this all on PWE. Limited budget and forced gamble-scams are one thing, and I get that. But Cryptic has shown that they care very, very little about this game.
When it does crash and burn, I will NOT be playing another Cryptic game. As it stands right now, I cannot recommend this game or any other Cryptic game to a friend unless they want to RP.
1) Fail outloud where people know what they failed at doing.
-or-
2) Fail in silence where we might someday discover(Brou's thread for example) the remnants of failed projects.
And you're saying that the kind of negative feedback they would receive on the forums from the customer base, that they mostly ignore anyways, is the major determining factor in whether they(not including TT, of course) communicate with us or not?
Now I tend to be pretty down the middle objective as much as possible but...wow...that's a pretty horrible scenario. Sure some of the doomies on the forums(and some of the cheerleaders) are a lil on the mentally unstable side(not all, mind you, but some) and can get downright viral in their crusades but at the end of the day it's people on a forum. I would think/hope/pray that as TT goes through the threads and occasionally says,"Hey, I'm passing this up the chain," that those ideas would have at least generated some kind of positive results. It's not so much the ones who expect the world as it is the little things and basic decisions which have impacted this game and lead Cryptic, not so much Atari who did impose unfair deadlines and PWE who said make the grabbag/lockboxes as you see fit, to pretty much drive this game to where it is now IMO.
A prime example of this is about to have a Birthday. I have gone on the record multiple times and told devs more than a few times that the SECOND the demise of CoX was announced that all projects should have been put on suspension for 'Bug Month." That polishing this game as much as humanly possible and, so to speak, getting "all our ducks in a row" to be THE destination for the CoX Refugees was a fairly obvious decision and should have been implimented at that momment. While I am glad that this is happening now(results yet to be seen, of course) it's not going to have the potential economic impact for this title that it would have had last year. This, IMO, was a catastrophic misstep which potentially resulted in the loss of untold profits. This was basically trying to look like nobody was home when the prize patrol knocked on the door with the big check.
Speaking of money, I see alot of threads on these forums with, "Well, if they would put X in the Z-Store then <opens wallet>." Many people said this about emotes and when they finally did come I know quite a few people who bought them. Heck, I own the emote kit. I own half the Travel Powers(I only buy what I need to make concept and some of them either don't make that concept or are horrible like Cape Glide and Skull Flight so I'll never get them). I own all the costume sets in the game except the emblem kits(because they're hideous) and things I can get with 5k perks(because that's CONTENT and I won't buy my way out of doing content). I bought exactly one vehicle and that's because it came with a helm I like(still left a bad taste though to be honest) and I have no plans of buying any additional vehicles/becomes...because I can build a toon and becomes do not appeal to me since you cannot even move the powers around into a useable format IMO. I don't buy consumables because I have no need for them. I don't buy keys because I am one of, if not the, unluckiest people when it comes to MMO RNG so, to me, that is a complete waste. I do not gamble not because I am somehow morally against it...but because there is no chance I would win. Therefore, I don't play that aspect of the game.
But then I see all these people saying the above statement and I wonder why don't they at least put some things people say they would buy in the Z-Store just as a marketing test to "call their bluff." Put a costume set in the Z-Store(this does not mean stop making the ones ingame btw). If all the people who have made such claims in the past, myself included, shell out then they make money. Even a one time thing as a market test is worth it IMO. And it's not just the forums. I see people in zonechat(when I have that thing turned on) basically begging Cryptic to make things they can throw money at.
Also, and this is a tiny bit off subject but I've always wondered so I'll mention it, I would be very curious to see the key sales vs. key usage spreadsheets. How many people are actually buying keys to open these lockboxes vs. how many of these people are buying keys to use as alternate cash forms because they're capped silvers? Also, how many people are using keys as a means to use RL cash to obtain ingame globals? Is this a case of people loving the lockboxes or a case of people using the Official Gold Selling Mechanics to obtain wealth via actual money? Now don't get me wrong, it's their money and players who wish to do this are within their rights to do so because the system exists and shows no real signs of going anywhere. I do not believe it's some kind of exploit to use the gold seller mechanics that are basically provided to the players as an option. It's classic Time vs. Effort Mechanics which alot of these microtransaction MMOs are built upon. I, personally, do not partake of such mechanics myself but that is also my right as a player. Besides, those Unity folks would get pretty lonely if I wasn't there to farm their missions.
Lastly, and I'll say it again because I do not think it can be said enough, the reason I am against this particular lockbox is mainly because I picked flowers in the "New" game to get a perminant device with a 6s CD Timer which throws unlimited Water Balloons only to beg for such a thing here in the game where we have a tradition of throwing water balloons...and then get such an item with a 10s CD Timer in a Lockbox. To me this is a slap in the face to the loyal CO Players and one which I do not feel I can complain enough about(although I do not think such actions will accomplish anything which kind of saddens me). It is also for this reason that even though I have 3 LvL 60s and a LvL 47 in this other game...I will likely never spend a single dime to support it until such time as that game's existence improves CO in some way. I simply play because I have friends there, the chat accross Cryptic games is connected, and they have content atm. If I had my way I'd much rather be playing CO and that may very well become a reality after these bug fixes(assuming they hit anything remotely important) and the Mythical Cryptic North shell out something of any lasting significance. Course, as a vet, I'm kinda low on hope these days so it pretty much has to hit Live before I believe it's happening. I'm just way too far beyond the times of stories and PTS to believe such things are in any way a concrete translation of what the future of this game holds.
And now I've probably gone on more than enough so...next person. :biggrin:
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
What I'm saying is, if they tell us about their ideas before said ideas become solid plans with dates and everything, and then the ideas don't pan out, people in the forums are going to start screaming about "broken promises". And the suits don't want to hear about that. So the easiest way to avoid it is for the suits to forbid anyone to discuss ideas in public. Having been on the receiving end of such a policy, I'm pretty sure the devs would love to tell us all about the new stuff they're trying to implement - but they'd love to keep their jobs even more.
So, you want to have a developer who'll discuss their ideas openly? You'll need to have one where this product is a small enough thing overall that the suits aren't monitoring things that closely. And that doesn't describe Cryptic, because they have exactly three products.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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1. I doubt the suits monitor this game beyond the profit margins until someone says otherwise. Heck, I don't even know if Jack remembers this game. He certainly doesn't act like it.
2. I believe there is a middle ground between "Pipe Dreams" and things actually actively being worked on by the, apparently we have one now, team. The level of communication could rise up to that level as well as stretching out the release schedule so things can hit PTS on a Monday and not have to be pushed Live on either the coming Thursday or the next one. I can't tell you how many times people have put in PTS work, pointed out bugs, and the basic reply has been(to paraphrase), "No time, hurry hurry hurry!"
2b. And some ideas, I'm sorry, are just BAD. If they hit PTS with the time and testing to make them work and they hit sooner then alot of wasted dev time could possibly be redirected to better projects in CO. This isn't me saying that something like Fatal Error was bad based on opinion(I liked it BTW) but look at things in the past like the original EB/Block Pass and the V1 Pet Pass which both had to all but be completely redone because they were horrible. Look at Fire and Ice, Look at The "New" Sidekicking System (which, if it had worked and not vanished, I still don't know how it didn't suck a bag of rocks through a paper straw), and other such projects which hit PTS and then faded into limbo. This is why, sometimes, I think the communication issues aren't just that of those between the playerbase and Cryptic but also of Cryptic and Cryptic. Remember Robo's reply when asked about the "Legacy Vendor"? It was basically, "The what?" That guy, who did a rockstar job I might add and was quite nice, had no idea what we were talking about and he was the EP. :eek:
3. Communication can be done right. Just look at all the venom on the forums and such that you talk about and then look at the responses people like H20Rat, Tumerboy, and TrailTurtle have gotten from just talking to us. Heck, only one of those was a CR. When one of those three would log into the game sure there was the occasional nimrod giving them trouble but, for the most part, the community was happy to see them. TT, for example, can run a stream where he all but tells us NOTHING we don't already know and yet people will log into that chat, make jokes, and have a good time. It shows that someone gives a damn.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Shortly after they announced the Cryptic accounts would be fully integrated into the PW system, there was a worry of region locks brought on by PW system.
We were told they would be going into a meeting to discuss it, and we didn't hear anything for almost a year. Yes the issue was resolved, but in that time not one CR took the time to come in and give us an update. It was't until TT was brought on that we finally got the answer.
A similar event happened when players began reporting a problem with the conversion from gold to silver (and silver to gold) system. At first they didn't even acknowledge a problem, some players were reporting that CS was telling them that this was working as intended. It was about 2 or 3 months of silence until we finally got a fix. Meanwhile during those months of silence CS was telling players they could fix their issue by buying the retrain tokens.
While they were resolved, but the point of this is with how much time it took. Yes this has gotten better with TT around, as you have said he is one of the best CR's we've had. (I place Daeke up there too, afterall he stuck his neck out for us and was made a scapegoat)
Silence can be just as dangerous as over hyping a feature that may or may not make it into the game.
OK, maybe I missed a memo somewhere but is there any proof that anything even remotely resembling that actually happened? From what I've been able to piece together over the years this seems(if I am wrong then please correct me) to be nothing more than an urban legend that cropped up due to the "Vibora Pay" issue and Daeke's departure from the company.
Now, I understand professionalism and how it would not be right for the company to discuss the dismissal of one of their employees but I've also heard some people on the forums say this and...I've just never seen any proof on the issue to be honest.
To my knowledge the only thing Daeke ever did for the community was to supply some AFs(Retro Destroyer) for the, at the time, widely popular player run events known as "Where in The World is Carmel Santiago?" Being someone who worked heavily on said project I am quite grateful for his contributions to it's success. At least that much I know to be true.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
I don't think we'll ever have definitive proof, but circumstanial stuff, there is tons of it. I think (after all we can only guess) it was a culmination of events, all happening shortly before his departure.
1. Vibora Pay: I firmly believe that Daeke thought he was communicating an official message, mistakenly thinking the plan to charge players for it was set in stone.
2. Bears and Charity: You have a long memory, I'm guessing you remember this. Daeke endorsed and advertised something that appeared on the launcher during the holidays in 2009/2010. It involved a "charity" event where a person who collected an amount of holiday items would buy something and donate it to a (as yet still unnamed/undetermined) organization. How Daeke fell for this is beyond me, because there is absolutely zero correlation between collection of in game items and one's ability to give to a charitable foundation or endeavor.
3. Exposure of #2. When revealed that #2 didn't make a lick of sense, and perhaps pressed on the issue by his superiors, I think that was the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back.
I'm just speculating of course, but as all 3 things above occurred during a relatively short timeframe before his termination, I think it's a fair guess. For the record I thought Daeke was a fairly good representative, except he should have been a little more thoughtful about the what and who of #2.
*edit
** In retrospect looking back they didn't offer him a chance to resign first and give him an out. To my knowledge that has only happened here twice unless I've forgotten something. Puzzling.
And, in all honesty, Daeke probably is number 2 on my list of CRs but the gap between second place and 1st place is The Grand Canyon. Also, the only reason Tumer didn't bury Daeke on my list was he was not a CR....or he would have been number 2. :biggrin:
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Unfortunately no Cryptic has denied the claims, it is something that has been speculated since he was let go almost immediately after stating that Vibora Bay was going to have a fee attached to it. Which of course caused quite a bit of hostility in the forums. Late of course they stated that Vibora bay was free. What story is true is likely something we will never know for sure.
As for what Daeke did I don't really remember, I do remember the events and I vaguely remember he was fairly active on the forums til around the time of the Vibora bay stuff began.
As to point 2 that Lafury brought up, I remember that and I remember who started it. It is not unheard of for people or companies to run a promotion where if customers buy X amount of Y product they will donate a certain amount of money or contribute something to a charity. In this case it was a Children's Network (if memory serves me), and he did actually send me an image of the bears, now what happened to them after that is anyone's guess.
Lack of evidence doesn't necessarily prove or disprove something did or did not happen. But anyway enough of that back on track, it is all of these little things that have added up over time and they are why Cryptic has the reputation, and I feel are why there is such 'hostility' on the forums directed at Cryptic.
Also, the concept still makes absolutely no sense in comparison to how charitable organizations operate.
That aside, I want it so bad. ;A; *grabby hands*
Because thats what every anniversary needs , lockboxes.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
This gets asked EVERY SINGLE TIME a new vehicle comes out, and I've given the same answer every time:
They put it in the lockbox first, to get the Key sales from people who will dump any amount into "MUST HAVE NAO!"
Then they put a modified version into the Drifter Store for the people who will pay for Keys to open lockboxes for a less gamble-y method of obtaining it.
THEN they put another modified version (with less slots, usually weaker pre-slotted weapons, and no 10% buff that the lockbox and Drifter versions get) into the Cash Store.
So far, the only one I've been wrong about was the Chariot; for some reason there was no Drifter version.
Why would this one (or any future vehicles, for that matter) be any different?
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
I think lockboxes wouldn't be that big problem if we also get some REAL content like all other games get. So the real problem is that lockboxes here are simply the ONLY content we got since On Alert.
Ok .. we also got the Power Armor, Wizard and Nighthawk Set after On Alert i think .. before it really started with the the lockbox-terror and nothing else.
This.
In STO and NW, gambleboxes are a means to an end. In CO, gambleboxes are the end.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
I think in other games like DCUO, people who are subscribed get lockboxes which can be opened for free or something?
I reckon when and IF we get more content (as well as existing content fixes) lockboxes should be changed implementation wise.
My Characters on PRIMUS
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I am @RavenForce in game
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I kind of agree.
But lifers DO get to open lockboxes for free. Five boxes a month, or eleven every two months, or 100 every 18 months, depending on how long they want to save up their stipend.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
First off, I never said LTS, so do not misconstrue what I said.
I said subscribers so this would be Gold players as well. I also said that IF such a thing were to happen the lockbox implementation would have to be changed.
As it stands now, anyone with Zen in sufficient quantity can open a lockbox whenever they like.
To open boxes for free, really for free without Zen would require an implementation change (as I previously said).
Perhaps granting subscribers a limited amount of cosmic keys every month and lowering lockbox drop rates or altering their contents.
When you think about it though, getting a stipend of 500Z a month -can- be 5 keys to open five boxes. So it is practically already in place.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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I have a friend who plays DCUO all I know is that lockboxes are sometimes free to open for them. It was an example which was misinterpreted in this instance.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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Yes in DCUO, a subscriber can open all lockboxes with out spending any extra money. It is one of the 'perks' of being a subscriber over there, along with the free dlcs, a monthly stipend, and all the other conveniences that one would come to expect from a subscription in a f2p game.