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State of Unrestricted Pvp?
secksegai
Posts: 1,354 Arc User
While I can say ff pvp more or less "died" with the release of On-Alert, before I left months ago, it was still bearable.
These days it seems its become a device war, and even less appealing than before. For the regulars left, what do you guys think?
These days it seems its become a device war, and even less appealing than before. For the regulars left, what do you guys think?
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I think the usage of devices, in some respects is very off putting to the prospect of PvPing.
That being said, I am no stranger to fantastic PvP experiences, especially in Hero Games, I remember when I joined Stronghold one time and all of us vowed to forget devices and fight with our builds only...
My god that was the best thing ever, sure I died vs PvP experts but at least I had a fighting chance.
I'd say PvP was more enjoyable pre On Alert, On Alert may have made a majority of players stronger but it has severely crippled others, devices are sort of an icing on the cake in that sense.
Whilst I do have devices on my characters they are all based on a theme (i.e. I wouldn't use TK Forcefield inducer on a single blade concept etc) I personally find it interesting that people are able to use devices in combat so easily. Then again that's probably why they are better at what they do xD
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
My aopm for example, does 5-6k conviction crit heals, has 50%-58% dodge chance- avoidance or so, defense to get 100% damage resistance and if you eventually get it down to 5k HP, I can use MD, RESURGENCE or ascension and be cool. Not that any build can do that against a 15.5k hp toon in less than 32 seconds without being too squishy.
If NPGs/ice nades didn't exist, I wouldn't die at all I bet. The problem is legion gears. They allow Aopm to be even better than it used to, without much effort. IMO, we should get back to heroic gears and imbue. Then PvP wouldn't be sooo boring.
I don't see that happening...it wasn't that great then tho. There still were some combinations that outperformed others, it just wasn't that obvious probably.
It was. If you're speaking of Pesti Enrage Defile and his evil twin, the AoPM CON EGO Ruin Detonation, even that was manageable. Not all the combinations worked, but my DEX EGO REC based TK blader relying on Ego Reverberation was doing great. For something like this to do great it's a huge win.
Uncritted damage was meaningful, you'd survive with no CON and an offensive passive, and hold powers were useful. And crit sev being strapped on EGO got you to decide what you aimed to do.
I miss more team oriented PvP like SH and UTC which allow for a greater diversity of builds to contribute. But the queue requirements, among other things, killed that off.
I agree that the current degree of reliance on devices is an issue, but I think that it's simply the most obvious issue - not the most damaging or important one.
Lowering queue requirements would be a good starting point!
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
"Oh yes please, let's lower the requirements to that pointless Epidemic/Strafing run race with an outcome favoring who has the biggest amount of sigil spamming healers." Ha, ha. Changing two of the only possible playstyles into another two won't solve the problem, but it's not like it mattered to you anyways, right?
Is it possible to be so blind to the current problem that it's not possible to see past the petty wishes to chain win SH/UTC?
It's always been the same thing with all the newcommers. They get steamrolled, they try different stuff, they keep getting steamrolled, they adopt the top notch build, they do well, after a while they get bored and try something else, they realize how bad the situation is, they get disgusted and leave. All of this in two months. And it keeps going on, and on, and on, with different people.
Majority of people play CO to be what they want to be, you should at least be able to be close to what you want to be when switching to PvP like it was before. It's surprising from someone like you who often love epic proportions of anything to pretend to have fun with a ******n generic christmas tree wielding two pistols, ice grenades and a remote for your assault jet while throwing darkness bolts and fighting your exact clones.
What are you going to do if SH and UTC get more popular? Replace Two Gun Mojo with Epidemic? Or Inquity? And Strafing Run with Sigils of Ebon Weakness? Wooohooo! One hell of a progress! Chapeau! Crazy! Tip Top!
No really, I'm hateful and all, but THAT is downright pathetic. If people eventually get to like what they use while being efficient, THEN they won't mind getting into more Hero Games related stuff.
The current, and former, and eternal problem for PvP in CO is that the devs did not and do not care for it. They do not play their own game and as a result do not know how to interpret player feedback.
The point is that during "before" ...there was team pvp. And I, as well as other people, could play a greater variety of builds competitively than right now. As you say below...
Why would I pretend to do anything? I have enough fun to play, but a lot of others don't and I think they might if team pvp popped more often. And I don't have an assault jet tyvm.
Maybe yeah. But at least there will be a few more useful powers to choose from than right now. SUPER CRAZY! INCREDIBLE! How could I even say such a thing?!?!
Being hateful for a post in an abandoned forum for a neglected game is downright pathetic. What's with the personal bs?
You really think that's going to happen? Given the dev resources on this game, I'd say let's not bet on it.
The most we can realistically expect is a few simple changes here and there. So I suggested lowering queue requirements. Try not to have a heart attack.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
*yawn* I'm sorry, you were saying? Oh right, more unidirectionnal stuff, moving on.
I expected you to point at that since you really like to do so from what I've seen. And that isn't a reason to bury the rest of people under more BS.
If they give no care about that, why would you expect them to care about these few changes? As said below:
Don't expect these changes if they don't plan to do anything about the current state of PVP. They won't alleviate the pain and pretending to have a SUPER HAPPY FUN TIME won't change it. It's simply not right for them and it's an insult to us that that thing is still on pacifier.
The other big change is that legion gear + devices require investing a lot of time/money to make a character viable, which has reduced the number of alts we all play. The reasons alts matter is that in a community with a few dozen people, things stay much fresher when we all have several characters. It used to be common for folks to have one min/max character capable of competing in bash, fighting back against bullies, etc, but also have a couple of other characters which are fun and reasonably strong, without fitting into the narrow mold of being completely optimal.
Rewards would be great, although instead of rewarding "winning" - which would just lead to brutally farming the weakest players to quickly get points - I suggest the rewards should mostly be based on time played. For example, have bash award 30G per hour of time played, with a 5% / 10% / 15% bonus for 3rd / 2nd / 1st place.
I know clowns are always paid for their show. Even strippers get less, tho they do more
Agreed that rewarding time played would be sweet.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Although this would mean that some pve people who don't care much for pvp but want G would just stand afk.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
For example!!:
Secondary gear:
44 stats to a single stat (Not tied to your primary stat, like the Q gear)
24+24 Stat gears (now purples can give 20+20 so 24+24 seems reasonable!)
Primary gear:
Malvan EPIC EMBLEM with 4 slots
That-Other-Piece-Of-Useless-Gear 4 slots
Mods:
Perception mods (rank 5,6,7,8,9)
PVP Penetration mods (Rank 5,6-etc)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
@Pallih in game
They should add epic PvP titles such as... keyboard cowboy!
What? You say that is already a title in the game? 0.o ... Okay then...
How about the title QQ?
Hm...... Already in the game!
Too be honest everyone would love the title 'The lucidity syndicate' too bad it isn't in the game. :<
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Yush! Bash leechers yush! Easy kills! Yush ! Easywin!
O.o
Imp's right, but at least we'll grow moneyz out of HG.
I point the finger to lack of regulation. They did a poor job of monitoring just how ridiculous you can make your toon. And instead of observing and balancing they just throw shiny vehicles in expensive lockboxes at you.
The new min/max is so pigeon holed you barely have choice. You NEED dodge chance, critical chance, massive INT and CON, Active defense rotation, etc... You don't get a lot of room to actually make a build that would be considered unique by any standards. Removing super stats from passives was the beginning of the end, and the new mod system became steroids on top of a bent system.
RIP Caine
It depends of what you mean by 'different'. With specs and other features, you'll make a living out of anything if you use the same 3 stats everyone use, and get optimal results with them to the point that you can laugh at the rest. Only with that, you can use any power, any passive and be effective in PvE.
Now in PvP, two things happened. Some variations got slaughtered, and the rest are stackable on top of eachother. Instead of analyzing and concluding: A heavy dodger / A damage resistance based CON tank / a squishy meat grinder / a hybrid fighter / a heavy healer / crit abuser, you can be sure as hell that the opponents you'll face will dodge ALOT, have massive healing and take alot of hits while destroying you with a humongous amount of crits they didn't spec for.
There are no alternatives because you lose like 60% overall effectiveness just for gaining slightly more in the very precise role you want to build on, and many extremes can be stacked on top of eachother.
I do agree with the decision to remove passive and superstat scaling. But what happened was less acceptable. Some times intent and result don't always match match up, and this is one of those times. But there was hope even in these dark times. Ego Storm made melee possible, and people had not found Goku levels of ridiculousness yet. But like all good things in CO, they nerfed everything that wasn't blatently un-balanced like criticals on Ebon Rift and Ego Choke, leaving 100 foot ranged attacks to dominate. Although a nerf to Imbue and Enrage hindered these builds, nothing could stop the pain train once it was rolling. The final blow came with gear changes with mods making the already barely balanced AoPM even more godly.
I am a total fan of things NOT getting nerfed. But this opinion is saved for games with clear developer "give a ****". When things don't go broken/unbalanced for months or YEARS at a time. If they wanted balance, it really isn't hard to tell whats wrong with PvP when 95% of the elite PvPers run similar builds. This isn't Starcraft or League of Legends. They DON'T care about balance. At least as much as other things.
But I bet you, the dodgers go crazy against telepathy dots.(if they don't see you that is)
Truth be told, if you don't want/can not be one of the top players, it's better not to use the Fotm/most winning player's build. Making one that suits your playstyle, helps you evolve faster and become better than the usual copies.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Your only real solution is as follows:
Do team duels, and just refuse to duel any teams that contain players whose builds you disagree with. Fill your friends list with theme builders who will participate. No doubt those teams filled with superman builds will have a lot of ego to throw at you about you not dueling them... just tune them out or put them on ignore, it's not really important what they think anyway.
Just make sure you have a clear separation between "theme builds" and "people I can beat", otherwise your pool of potential participants is going to be small and shrinking. Also, make sure you're not actually one of the people who's builds you disagree with... living a lie will quickly shrink the potential pool of participants to zero.
Arguing with each other on the forums is just going to make you all hate each other more, and people hating each other is kind of one of the things that ruined pvp.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Noeeeeeeeeeeeeee myyyyyyyt nadesssssssssss
Time to retcon me thinks ;-p
I look forward to your contributions.
Btw, the devices change wasn't done for pvp. It was done because enough people were complaining that device users were ruining their pve experience. Turns out, Cryptic disagrees with the idea that other people winning faster in pve doesn't affect your own play experience. Now let's all get back to complaining about how there will be even less diversity in builds once the multi-device nerf takes hold!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Back on topic.... I think we all need to do our best to brush up the state of the game and keep it as clean as Karen Araragi's teeth... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwMkfGbmfhI
But really, are you actually expecting there to be any nerfs at all from the dev's? If anything they need to make more skills viable. I'm sure only about 10% of all the powers in the game can actually be used, the rest are simply rather pointless and less the half as good as another skill but with the same use.
What's the point in adding in more useless skills? Surely they need to fix the ones already there, assault rifle could be cool to fix make worth while. Also the bleed stacking could be made slightly easier to get to 5 stacks.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Think about it, if a new player comes into a pvp environment, chances are they are not going to be filled with hate and seeking payback. They just want to play.
Now after being destroyed by device abusing min maxers, hate might settle in but...
Only to turn them off to playing pvp again. There is not enough of a pvp crowd to have hate be the motivating factor as to why people play CO pvp.
Need proof? PvP Launch-2011= fun and popping. 2012-2013= Done and flopping.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
End you say? :eek: I must have missed that memo...
Didnt you know? Heres the latest PTS news http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=241351
Aphro is getting nerfed.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Anyways, back on topic...
The device war is going to cool down but not disappear entirely. At least now that there is no "5 of each" ceiling to the farm it's going to be less daunting for newcomers who now really only need to farm up about 3 devices total to be caught up. That's a lot more reasonable and can even be thought of as fair since it's really the only sort of progression we have... even if that progression can't be pushed forward through pvp.
Is it going to bring people back in? Debatable. Devices weren't the only reason for people leaving, and I bet a lot of them still have a "I'm not coming back unless they're banned from pvp entirely" mentality about it, and I bet even more have a "So what, everything else is still completely screwed up, this is a joke" mentality.
We keep thinking we've seen just how dead pvp can be... but it's not even done dying yet. Of all things, AT PvP recently kicked it in the balls and caused it to double over for a bit... with it being that fragile it's unsure if it can really ever get back on its feet... we should probably settle for it being on its knees.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
She just creeps up behind you and goes STABBY STABBY DIE DIE!
You gotta respect that.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Her spawn camping skills are probably the best. No really, I'm being serious here. Has anyone else ever been so good at it that not only could no one stop them from doing it, but people actually got so upset at how fast bash was ending that they actually got upset at the person being spawncamped?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Honestly, its practically the same people that keep pvp alive at all, and while its nice to see familiar faces (usually), we're basically losing people faster than we gain.
The need of player sponsored events is all the more clear based on the state of "acclaim rewards".
While the end to the device war will help a little, its nearly impossible to motivate newer folks to pvp without an actual incentive.
I think the only problem with player sponsored events is that they tend to be even more invisible than the Hero Games themselves are. The turnout usually includes all the same vets, and it's pretty much always the old vets who win, which in turn makes the new blood think "whats the point?". If you ban the vets, then you're effectively insulating the new blood from the reality of pvp, which won't work because eventually they have to interact.
That's kind of the theme with all this "how do we get new blood?" stuff. It always ends up, even if not intentionally, being "how can we get some newbs in here so we can have some fun stomping them until they leave or learn their lesson and retcon?". That's why it has never worked. PvP is just too niche in this game for any real upswing in popularity. Honestly I wish some players in other games who complain about pvp being a tacked on after thought could come here and see what we have... they might learn to appreciate their multiple giant battlegrounds that are filled with swarms of players.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Maybe because your build looked like they added a 'randomize all' button into the game when making your build. Your build was pretty much the equivalent of some of these really stupid costumes where people couldn't be asked and just throw all sorts of un matching pieces with all different colours.
you had 4900 health, no dodge and no defense with no attack or healing. Infact I forgot what you were actually using but I well know it wasn't doing anything at all. All eve did was see where you would spawn on the mini map run over to you strait away then knock you up and hit you once. You sometimes even got one shot by the knockup that's how bad it was.
Anyway I have been in hero games when there were much less people queuing than there are now. It was once only me and aret_f while jewel and one or two others would sometimes make an appearance.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Power armor build with targeting computer. I know, sometimes I'm amazed that I somehow thought that a bunch of power armor powers would in any way work with one another... and targeting computer? Geez, I don't think I can claim that I build for theme anymore.
Still, be that as it may, it was pretty funny the way Eve was making people cry that day. Not sure I'll ever forget it. I certainly won't forget the people who were crying or the way they almost rage quit in a UTC later that day when I ended up on their team with Eve on the other team... or the way we won that UTC 15-2 with me being in on nearly every kill. I also won't forget the few times I actually took Eve down when she was spawn camping me... just me and my terrible random powers build.
But yeah, you're right, I really need to stop pressing the "Random...ly make a build with a bunch of powers from the same framework" button and start using that well worn "Copy someone else's build button" :biggrin:
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
It is hard to tell WHAT to fix in CO because there is so much wrong, and ya this is a good start. But don't expect anything to change.
What exactly do u expect us to do now? Believe that you are great in PvP? Or that you are half as good as Eve? Hmmm...
Ow, ow I know what that is...it's ego. You might have future in Copvp, keep it up.
If you at any point thought that I at any point in any way shape or form claimed to be pro... then clearly you've never actually spoken to me... or if you did, you were too busy listening to your own ego instead of what I was saying.
That being the case... it's a bit foggy what the point you're trying to make here in this thread regarding me is. Any ideas?
Here's a hint: I'm not like most of you, it doesn't bug me if you don't think I'm good at pvp/this game/anything. The very fact that I go into bash with builds that don't stand a chance, and do so repeatedly just for fun, would probably clue you in. Pull the ego out of your ears and you might notice that. Might.
You want pro? Her name is Eve.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
So true. Eve is so hot!
Well, my point is that you are like most of us.
You don't know how to make some things work yet, experience is the key. Should only take a month or two.
Listen, we've had many pps of your kind. Negative at everything at first and FoTM obsessed later. U know luci? She used to say the same stuff using invul. Last I saw she was aopm. Maybe you'll go quarry.
Again, I'm happy to see that. Good luck.
Two months ey? ...well shoot, looks like I'm about 6months behind on that... or ahead? Don't worry, I went through my fotm obsessed phase...about half a year ago. Strafing run, ebon ruin,2gun mojo... all dat. You know what happened? Exactly what you would expect... I started getting kills, winning bash, winning duels, all that fancy garbage. Then I got so bored with the game because of it that I couldn't bring myself to play for several months.
That's right, I started winning, and that made the game boring. Not in a "there's no real competition" way either...I'm no samurai walking off into the sunset lamenting at being the greatest swordsman in the land. The main problem was the builds... they were fotm builds... fotm builds are boring to me. I'm not that person apparently. Turns out I can be bored even if I am winning... so yeah, that whole thing happened, and I'm glad it happened because it taught me something very important about myself.
Cut to modern day. I get spawn camped, and the only ones not crying about it are me and the person doing the camping. What a world!
And as far as the quarry character, I've had it all along. It turns out that it doesn't take any level of experience or even thought to throw together the "correct" powers into a build. And yeah, I do a lot "better" on that character than my squishy PA character. More wins and all dat.
For some reason, I still enter bash on my squishy PA character though... dunno why, any ideas?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.