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For TrailTurtle and his crystal ball
bobj021960
Posts: 65 Arc User
TrailTurtle - you have always been good about being up front with us and keeping us informed. I've been away for a few months to go through NWO beta and live launch. I am now back to my one true love and I am curious what our future holds now the NWO has fully live. So here are my questions:
1) What is the status of us getting a Foundry? After seeing it work in NWO, I am impressed with it and the potential for it in CO is massive.
2) With the creation of the Cryptic North team, what can we see in the way of new zones, costumes, power sets, travel powers, etc.?
3) Will there be any work on the many bugs currently crawling around in our game?
I enjoy this game and hope that it has a long and healthy future.
1) What is the status of us getting a Foundry? After seeing it work in NWO, I am impressed with it and the potential for it in CO is massive.
2) With the creation of the Cryptic North team, what can we see in the way of new zones, costumes, power sets, travel powers, etc.?
3) Will there be any work on the many bugs currently crawling around in our game?
I enjoy this game and hope that it has a long and healthy future.
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2) New zones aren't too likely. Costumes and power sets, more likely. It's worth noting that we've been making those over the past little while, but they've been distributed differently. Costumes are going out in events, lockboxes, etc; powers have been getting added, but they aren't in ATs. I don't know whether those will be the only distribution models going forward -- but definitely, we're still making costumes and powers.
3) Yeup. In fact, I'm about to make a post about that. :biggrin:
Thank god. I've been waiting for ANY kind of update.
so were going to have nothing but half attempts at lame story arcs.
for answer 1 give us a yes or no. no more of this we would like to yadayada bull. its been over 2 years now
heres an idea since pwe/cryptic has no intention of ,making this game any better let the players dev. for this game.
I do wonder does pwe/cryptic even care for this game?
to the op "I enjoy this game and hope that it has a long and healthy future."
it has next to no future, pwe has no plans on making this game better. I do wonder if Jack will ever stop his hatred of this game because of what happened in city of.
These answers pretty much just killed the food will I had for the company and the game. No Foundry or new zones. Two things this game needs badly. I should not be surprised though. This game means nothing to PWE.
New zones would have to come with a new level cap raise, so that doesn't surprise me that those aren't being worked on. What does irk me though are the costume pieces being released via events and lockboxes only, and only for one reason: DROP RATES. Could you at least get them to be semi-common where each box has one costume part? Raise the drop rates for the new missions and custom Alerts too. I played Cybermind a hell of a lot and I've got nothing to show for it, after all. Oh, and ATs that use the new powers are also a good idea, given that you've got people practically tripping over themselves to lay out new AT ideas for the new powersets... Oh yeah, and...
COSTUME SETS WERE THE BEST THINGS EVER PLEASE START DOING THEM AGAIN
Because actually getting what you pay for is nice.
Bug fix crunch time, however, pleases me.
Your first mistake is thinking Cryptic values our opinion as players and consumers. How long have we been asking for costumes sets to buy? Instead of giving them selves a real revenue source, they just continue to put them in either lockboxes or events.
oh I forgot pwe/cryptic wants to use the foundry as a carrot on a stick for us.
No they wouldn't. I'd actually prefer a new zone that (like Canada) offered content from 1 to the mid 30s, for an alternate leveling path, and then another (like Monster Island and Lemuria) that has level 30-40 content, plus additional endgame content (a new lair, a related Adventure Pack, something similar).
Add in new Recognition and gear (both equipment and special mods) that's related to the new zones, and you can keep people busy for quite a while, without the balance nightmare of a level cap increase.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
So City of Heroes is stone f***ing dead, Champions Online is a zombie, DC Universe Online is a cheap Disney animatronic, and Marvel Online is a mongrel dog.
And somehow, this will all be our fault.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Please do not put words in my mouth. The desire to improve the base quality of existing content does not, in any way, necessitate a cessation of future content.
I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm drawing a reasonable conclusion from the available data. That available data ends with the Anniversary Destroid Invasion and the Cryptic North Bug Hunt later this month.
Another lockbox/event cycle is a reasonable assumption beyond that, but those can stop at any time because there's no long-term commitment. Everything that does require a long-term commitment (Foundry, new zones, new ATs, costumes sold for a fixed price instead of as prizes from a slot machine, a proper engine upgrade, or anything else that is NOT a lockbox/event) has been effectively ruled out.
If there is a long-term plan that contradicts what I've just said, we need to hear it. Otherwise, we have no reason to believe that we won't continue to be strung along, hoping that the end of one event marks the announcement of the next, until that announcement never comes.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Least they are saying at like it is , cant fault that.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Agreed there's no need for a lvl cap rise it just brings more balance issues and just delays the moans
they could even role the above plus some costumes and power sets into a expansion I would get it.
There are concepts I am bursting to give life to, and while the powers there can cover some of what I have in mind, new powers would do it (water or plant/nature affinity for instance) or bringing back costumes unlocks lost after the Alerts for that right look.
So thanks for the good news TT, new powers coming, and costumes sets (although as drops or boxes, not so good news). Much appreciated. Definitely keeping my gold status (since 2009 I believe).
One of the things Crush was talking about fit in with that. It's still on the whiteboard, but it's something he's interested in.
Really? Because that's kind of what it looked like you said.
Now we're getting exactly that. And all y'all can do is complain about it. Make up your minds...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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And if not, any chance we might get some bladed vehicles in the future-- helicopters, ospreys, biplanes?
(Guy can dream.)
He never said that they're going to stop all new content after the bug fixes. New zones and Foundry aren't the only kinds of content there is.
You may not be super-excited about it, but the things Cryptic North have been working on do count as content, and there's no sign of them stopping and putting the game into maintenance mode. The plan earlier on in the year was to keep doing these events til the rest of the year, and I'm assuming that's what's going to happen.
So no, didn't really sound like he said we're going to completely stop getting content.
You may want to re-read what he said then. Nothing about content production drying up at all.
I view this bug hunt (since I am optimistic about it) as exactly that. An improvement to existing content before moving on to developing more. It makes sense and has been something the player base has been complaining about for a while.
I doubt they would spend a period of time to bug hunt just to do nothing with the game. Why? It would be a waste of employee time and resources, not to mention the possible creation of MORE bugs in the process.
I mean look at the bugs they have managed to clear up recently. New Telepathy was a disaster on release and slowly got worse (no ill intent meant, it's a shameful fact). Then BAM, around a month or so later fix which has solved all functionality bugs. This then means that all that is left is "surface bugs" (like some remaining tooltip errors, SFX, FX and icons).
Then again, if I can wait for 10 months to play my main character I can deal with bugs being fixed to improve my gameplay experience.
My Characters on PRIMUS
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I'm probably in the minority here but even though I have all the access I want to FF I still like ATs. ATs are a nice way to get a feel for a group of powers and require a lot less alt-tabbing to check what's next on the powerhouse page.
I'm also greedy, I want new costumes, powers (with an AT version), and the Foundry. Some new CS/APs (or more repeatable content like SOCRATES, the two missions with the alert was about the right length for Tanker Tuesday) would tide me over until the Foundry was done.
Why?
Because TPP is seriously talking about one (if perhaps not at launch date). And if Valiance and Heroes and Villains are smart, then they probably will too as to compete with TPP.
So, for C.O, the presence or absence of a Foundry is going to be the sink-or-swim point once the competition arrives. A mission editor will allow it to keep its community, which is the deciding factor in MMO success, not being "new" or having "better technology" (as sadly, CO learned to CoH a while back).
C.O has years of experience and a fanbase, but lacks content. Thus, the Foundry is the way to continued survival. In addition, we have now new devs and C.O's code base is now standardized, so there are little excuses not to.
Meanwhile, while I really wish we get the Foundry here (because I doubt the competition has CO's unparalleled character customization), I plan to enjoy the game instead of complaining because I know I'll eventually get a mission editor for my superhero characters; if not here, elsewhere. :P
2. Angel- No kickstarter, as this is an existing product and as such does not qualify.
3. Foxyperson- I'm just gonna assume you are new. We were told roughly 2 years ago that we wouldn't be getting the foundry. This battle was fought and lost ages ago.
4. New zones- Gods not this again. Who told us we weren't getting new zones you ask? Tumerboy. If you do not recognize the handle than please for pete's sake just resign yourselves to that fact. We were told no new zones. WE ARE NOT GETTING NEW ZONES, HOWEVER THIS DOES NOT TRANSLATE TO "NO NEW CONTENT".
They have lots of existing tech that can be mixed and matched, so it's not unreasonable to assume that we will be getting new content.
Turtle: I was on the fence about you for a long time as you represented PW and I have mixed feelings about them. I see now that you are doing your best, so from this customer's perspective thank you. That being said:
Get Cryptic North to talk to us please. Otherwise you are gonna face a tidal wave of frustration. An official announcement; SOMETHING. ANYTHING! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for Foundry -- it's better than costumes because you get to DO something with costumes. Otherwise, you get another headgear to maybe wait an hour to show a handful of people in a CC or show off briefly in an Alert. Or take screenshots.
That said, Foundry just isn't going to happen. Too much work for a minimal supported game. And considering how much Cryptic has dropped the ball on the other two games with Foundry, I suppose that's for the best.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
"Until then, it's empty promises."
This is why the Until Reports need to be removed from the forums. Lets remember a few things here for the sake of context:
Until Reports arrived before Engineering Reports. Both served the same function.
Engineering Reports were discontinued and removed AGES ago. Why? They were creating false expectations and PWE and/or CBS told Cryptic to cut it out.
Lets also remember the last official interview with a CO Executive producer. Was he interviewed alone? Nope. He was interviewed alongside a PWE representative. When asked why he was there the PWE rep said "To make sure no false expectations arose from the interview."
Engineering reports were taken down for for customer relation and liability issues, and it is seriously past the time when our Until Reports should have been deleted. They need to go. There are few things worse than false hope, and thats what those damned things are doing.
The Until Report serves another purpose, to communicate what the dev team is working on. Reassuring people that are thinking about spending money on a f2p game is important. When other games release patch notes for future content, or things that are in the works they usually state in bold letters that the notes could change and some features on the list may not make it into the game. For the most part people seem fine with this.
The problem with the until report is not with false hope, but with the lack of updates to it. They just put one up then forget about it, not modifying it as things change. This all goes back to the lack of communication that we get from the devs. TT does a good job of telling us what he can, but it does little to quel the rumors that have surfaced due to the devs silence.
I was not on for the first day of the anniversary did any of the devs actually log in this time (like they have in the past)?
Holy crap, Jon. You know good and well that the complaints here aren't about getting bug fixes. Being told that new zones aren't likely to happen is a pretty big deal. Stop feigning ignorance.
they keep saying the want the foundry in this game but due to whatever reason it is always about money, if they do a kickstarter then they will have the money for it. then they could no longer use it as a carrot.
3) where did they we would not be getting it. Ive read all of the reports and outside interview they have always said for 2 years "we would like to add it to champions but due to yaddayaddayadda excuse."
If you want the road closed until the potholes are filled, don't complain when the Detour signs go up.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Ok, so the Foundry will take a few months to translate the assets. The reason it wasn't made last year was mostly due to NW coming out with Foundry V2(CO currently has Foundry V.05 but players cannot access it). The thinking was that adding V1 to CO and then having to convert both STO and CO to V2 was a waste of time for CO(this much I agree with). So now NW has V2 and they're having some issues with it and need to iron out the bugs. STO is trying to get V2 but it's been said on their forums they're running into issues also.
So, as CO players we're used to a few "patterns" and "trends" if you will. We're mostly used to the devs going completely off the radar in November(except for maybe 1-2 people to flip the switches on the winter event that gets later and later and shorter and shorter). We're used to starting the year off in almost radio silence(not you TT, you rock. This is the past) until somewhere in the late Janurary-February range. Sure we complain about it...but it's almost to be expected at this point, sadly.
Ok, So since we're used to this dead space from Cryptic and the devs....why change anything? We have TT here who I believe does a fine job at his position(the best we've ever had). So let the devs vanish in November....but let them vanish to make CO Foundry V2. We're not used to getting anything in this time period anyways. I do not believe many people would even notice the difference. But man....it would be one hell of a payoff if they showed up in February and said,"Hope you all had a wonderful holiday. We brought you a present..."
And when I say "payoff" I do not directly mean they would profit from the foundry directly. However, if they did push the hell out of it on the actual webpage, the forums, twitter, facebook, and one of those NW mass mailings to the STO/NW Community,"Hey, this is our super hero game. It has a foundry too," then I believe it would pull in some of those people. STO/NW have a foundry community. I have to believe some of them would come here to try their hand at it. If CO put "Foundry Spotlights" and "Foundry Contests" like NW has on the CO page and CO Forums.....people would try to win those and be showcased. It's also not a bad way to earn Dilithium/Astral Diamond/Questionite from what I hear.
The word of mouth from the playerbase would bring some people who have, sadly, been long gone back to check it out. Returning players(I've seen quite a few since NW launched and wrangled them back to CO as best I could) want to know about unlocks and such that they missed in their absense. Returning players usually don't like the idea of being Silvers so they resub if they're not LTS. They need to rebuild their toons. They need to grind out some stuff. If we had some costume sets in the Z-Store they would buy those(for alot of my returning friends the 1st thing they did was gobble up any costume sets they were missing from the Z-store). If Cryptic/PWE embraced the community with things like video making contests, the return of the referral program(let people taste freeform), art contests to promote this new foundry, and so on then they could get FREE ADVERTISING.
Having said this, I'm not optimistic about the reality of it happening(prove me wrong, I BEG YOU) but the potential for such a scenario is something I believe could happen even with these "limited manpower/resources."
So, in closing, if "The Cryptic Vacation" is something the playerbase is pretty much used to seeing anyways then why not use that time to make something happen? Why not, for once, take a vacation from Champions to make something happen FOR Champions? :cool:
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
I've read everything so far and if you're not feigning ignorance then you just genuinely are obtuse. Your previous post made it abundantly clear you were placing the source of everyone's anger on the fact we're getting bug fixes over all else. Conveniently you glossed over what we were told we're not going to get, not because bug fixes are the priority but because there are just no plans for new zones or anything else that isn't a themed mini event.
This isn't detour signs we're complaining about, they're straight up shelving plans for new roads.
Oh apologies, I was just commenting on the kickstarter portion. The 2+years of the foundry being a "yadayada" as you put it is why I don't think it will ever be implemented (although Crosschan's post has rekindled a tiny wee bit of light at the end of tunnel, at least for me).
Kickstarter however? No. Never going to happen. Ever. This is why (and also why I believe that if Jack Emmert did in fact say "lemme ponder that" in a twitter conversation he should be downright ashamed of himself as he should know better than that) it will not work (caps for emphasis, not shouting at you):
CHAMPIONS ONLINE CANNOT USE KICKSTARTER.
Now don't take my word for this, go to Kickstarter's page and read the FAQ. Companies cannot use Kickstarter. Kickstarter cannot be used for existing products. Hence the name "Kickstarter". Cryptic is a company so we are not qualified. Champions Online is a product in existence, so again, does not qualify.
**sorry for the derail, it's just that if indeed it can be proven that Jack Emmert entertained the notion of using Kickstarter in any fashion then he is either just messing with us, or he is completely unaware of how it works and commented on the idea anyway. Either way, if he said those things, I think an apology is in order. We'll never get it, just wanted to point that out from a customer perspective. He should have known better.
edit-missed draogn's comment.
Your last ? first-I'm not sure. I didn't see any, but I am sure they've popped in as I see no reason why they wouldn't.
The Until Reports....no. They do not need to be followed up on;
Until Reports were the predecessor for Star Trek Online's Engineering Reports. Engineering Reports wre cancelled and deleted a long time ago. The reason for this is while CO may not have a huge playerbase, STO has a built in fanbase and comparitively much larger playerbase. Also they have 3rd party investment. When Engineering reports were discontinued, the reason given was that they didn't want to raise false hopes. Also it probably didn't help CBS or paint them in a positive light, when promising things that were never intended to be implemented, or having tings mentioned in timetables that could be interpreted as either "soon" or "never".
Engineering Reports were discontinued and deleted. For some reason they have not been deleted here, but they should have been. We aren't getting any more Until reports, it's just that that particular change was explained on STO's boards, and not here. That happens more frequently than it should. Sadly we always seem to find out last when it comes to company policy.
The events that take mysteriously months to design yet only about 15 minutes to play can only barely be considered content. Compared to what STO and NW get, trailturtle's announcement of "no Foundry, no zones, mostly bug fixes and lockboxes galore" pretty much confirms this game is developmentally dead.
It's hard to get any drier when you're already breathing sand.
Now, I want a good, clean discussion. No hits below the belt, no uncalled for shots, and certainly no grandstanding. Go back to your corners and come out discussing!
DUDE NO!
This game is being backed by steam, by valve, I put pride in the fact that this is one of the few games that decided to jump ship and give it a shot followed by the rest of the PWE games. But god man. How are you gonna take up something that major (and it is major, but for some reason I think the companies use steam as a launchpad rather than a valuable resource and ally) Point being.....PLAYER DRIVEN CONTENT IMMORTALIZES GAMES.
I'm still foolin around with left 4 dead 2, of all games even knowing valve will never make a sequel, but you know what? Doesn't matter because I the player can make my own damn sequel if I want to. The point is man, for a company with as much self created resources as they already have it would be a god dang tragedy to not go balls deep into the porting of the foundry. I don't care what blah blah said about what code, while dum dum licked a pudding pop! Or my car ran outta gas, I forgot how to code, hurp derp DUR! Its 2013 man you can transfer and update code into any engine you want, doesn't matter if it was coded on a Tandy Desktop.
If they don't wanna give their game a green shelf life don't bother gettin on their case about it. Let em run the gambit of the other korean companies and put out title after title before going in the red and having to close down shop.
In other news, a little korean grind fest thats been abused since its chinese theft called Fiesta wants to go on steam to use it as a monetary lifeline while future development for their game is coming along faster and better with private server developers who work for free rather than the 9-5 soda chuggin cookie eatin actual dev team in korea.
So can someone explain to me WAI, a team of 4-5 people can beat the actual game developers of the original title in their own game?
Lucky I don't own cryptic, I'd have you in a dungeon until the project was done. NO COOKIES!
/endrant.
You can't be dismissive of content just because it's not what you want. Yes, those 15 minutes of content is still content.
It's still Cryptic North's first year with the game. Sure, every armchair developer can say that they'd only need a month to crank out bug-free, eight-hour scenarios complete with new costume pieces, boss mechanics, boss powers, voice acting, and game events, but I won't make any of those assumptions. I'm willing to give them the time they need to really get a grip on what they're doing.
They started off with what seems to be a half-built scenario with Lemurian Invasion, and though the lead-up missions to it were very basic and short, they did get a big huge monster to fight in a level 40 alert.
Forum Malvanum they tried something new - a race. I thought it was great. Simple, but fun. And again, new. I see that as them thinking outside the box and challenging themselves. I found it very fun, testing myself against others, always trying to get first place, and comparing race scores with my friends. For the first time, I had to take my vehicle's handling into account because it didn't really matter before. It was fun, but I just wish there had been something more to the rewards. Like some kind of token vendor. I haven't gotten to play the alert portion of it yet.
Next up they went a little bigger, and they listened to the players who wanted permanent content. We got it. That's great. And once again an alert that didn't take us down to level 30. The lead-up missions were not 3-minute-jobs like the Lemurian one was, which was great. The level designs themselves left something to be desired, for sure. But again, that's something that'll come with experience. This time around we also got some new perks - a sign that they're getting more comfortable digging deeper into the system. The alert then featured new boss mechanics that required a little more thought than "press 2 a bunch and keep an eye on your health." Again, trying new things, and digging deeper.
Sure, I do wish we had all sorts of content popping up every other week, but what can you do? I'm glad someone's there doing stuff. And I hope with the next event, they'll dig a little deeper, learn from past mistakes, and make something even greater.
What I won't do is get all hyperbolic and act the game is getting nothing just because it's not getting the things I want.
Meanwhile STO got a full blown expansion with hours of new playable content and a new faction to boot. Oh, and apparently it'll be getting more new stuff complete with a whole new friggin' zone around the end of this year.
CO's latest offerings are pathetic.
And NW got pigs!!! Pigs!!!!
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Announcing you're working on a long-awaited feature way ahead of time is counter productive because people are dumb and want things now, they despair too quickly. It's what happened to Anarchy Online and their "new graphic engine"... which is still yet to come, because they announced it when they were starting to work on TSW, so I expect they started working on the engine just now.
All I hope is that, if they're working on it, they finish it before our toxic player base alienates Cryptic North the same way they alienated Cryptic the first time with their endless complains and doom saying.
Yeah you must be new here.
Playerbases do not "hurt" anything. Companies do not have feelings.
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=155131
"Announcing you're working on a long-awaited feature way ahead of time is counter productive because people are dumb and want things now, they despair too quickly"
The link above your quote is in direct conflict with this sentiment.
Edit-Ok to be fair I think there was one time, at least no more than TWO, where someone did attempt to hurt the company and sadly succeeded in making them look silly. Fortunately, that player has been ERASED, and in no way BEARED any resemblance to the rest of the playerbase.
Still this "stop hurtic cryptic" just does not pass muster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sxa6X6VEhVM
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
No they are not. No matter how many times the phoenix project people and haters in general say this kind of ****, it just doesn't resonate. I'd suggest yelling at a brickwall, you'd find it more receptive.
I keep hearing people have problems with the queue not popping or being booted after getting in.
Can we have a bug hunt bounty, 1 point per bug found, listed and/or demonstrated
on the other hand I have no sympathy whatsoever for the ones saying . Theres some each time an event is on in the amphitheatre.
I wish that this cake/tree would go away so that we could duel.
Guys(and gals) there's a BIG park next to the city. nice flat open space, only a few trees. Or if you're feeling optimistic(or possibly suicidal, use the flat round bit the helicopter is parked on.
You don't have to be in the amphitheatre to duel.
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No, seriously, it is.
That said, I do think Cryptic has a rather appalling history of rattling our chains.
All the while, the things the devs have added to the game of have been of ... spotty ... quality.
Well, you folks get the idea, feel free to add anything else.
Yes, I think what irks me more than promised content is what you perfectly describe as "our toxic playerbase". I for one, returned in July, and although the thing with the lockboxes is totally new to me, I am not minding it so much because what makes me stay in the game is all the content I haven't even played yet.
This idea with the Foundry seems to be a very big thing, and to make a premature announcement would be a deathknell. Anyone who has borne and raised children into this world knows exactly that this would be a bad business, because like children, the playerbase seems to lack the patience and common sense to accept a " no foundry at present". Of course, I'm generalizing, but I don't mean the entirety of the playerbase, but if what i have written makes you feel a certain way, so be it. The shoe fits.
I mean Hotdamn people, if you can wait 2 whole years for a promise that hasn't even been made properly and still haven't stopped playing the game, 2 more years will just be water off a ducks back. the playerbase spends most of their gaming time in zonechat with their " I wish they had this, and I wish they had that" and all of it preferrably yesterday, and wholeheartedly believe that new players would absolutely NOT get turned off by their constant complaining. Like a drug addict complaining of getting methadone instead of heroin, when both practically have the same effect. But then the influx of Coh and COX players increased in my absence, and many old timers say the increase in whining at the same time is just not so coincidental.
Treating the devs and the team like your own personal butler troupe is not only uncalled for, it makes you look silly. And it mars any hope of decent conversation. You can disagree all you want, but acting like TrailTurtle has more power in this than he does is just lazy thinking, especially when you can't even read what he wrote and make assumptions that reek of manure.
"Do you know what power is? Power is control of men who are lesser than you."