3 New Heroes Games Are Coming

cornivic · August 2013

So, because of CoH death there are 3 new games being made

The Phoenix Project- https://www.facebook.com/MissingWorldsMedia

Heroes & Villains- https://www.facebook.com/HeroesAndVillainsMMORPG

Valiance Online- https://www.facebook.com/ValianceOnline
What do you think will became of this game? Will it burn into ashes, or will the 3 games scare the crap out of Cryptic and make them work harder on this game? I hope for number 2.

Or maybe it will just stay where it is, and not die.

This would be fine with me too.

But if it dies then so be it, I still will have 3 new games.

voodoopokey · August 2013

Replace "are coming" with "have been proposed and will likely never see daylight". People like to plan all sorts of things, but you shouldn't get your hopes up until the projects actually show serious development.

zahinder · August 2013

I would love more options out there... but yeah, there's a thimble of water's chance on the sun of any of them going anywhere.

That said... it'd be awesome, and if any of them DO release with anything even remotely like the flexibility and options of CoH/CO, then CO will pretty much die. Fast.

voodoopokey · August 2013

zahinder wrote:

That said... it'd be awesome, and if any of them DO release with anything even remotely like the flexibility and options of CoH/CO, then CO will pretty much die. Fast.

CO didn't die when COH was running. I don't think a new COH clone would kill CO off either... it's hard to say how immediately enthusiastic previous COH players would be to start over once again. A lot of COH players miss their long-played characters... the ones they built across many years. Those won't come back regardless.

Too often amateur developers subscribe to the "if you build it they will come" philosophy and that doesn't work out in the long term.

But yeah, I doubt any of those three will amount to anything anyway.

xaogarrent · August 2013

If one of these games manages to field a couple good developers, I. E. not some name brand hackjob who THINKS he's good, but instead actually someone who IS good, and start a crowdfunding campaign, the odds of one of these becoming a reality goes up dramatically. This of course requires some measure of knowing what the hell they're doing to begin with, but something to remember is a lot of good games came from amateur developers who had their crap together.

Also, the build it and they will come philosophy does work, the problem is most forget that in order for people to come they have to know something is even there. Exposure is really important and it's an entire science in and of itself.

kojirohellfire · August 2013

Correction; two new games. I won't even consider anything led by that witch Golden Girl.

voodoopokey · August 2013

xaogarrent wrote:

If one of these games manages to field a couple good developers, I. E. not some name brand hackjob who THINKS he's good, but instead actually someone who IS good, and start a crowdfunding campaign, the odds of one of these becoming a reality goes up dramatically. This of course requires some measure of knowing what the hell they're doing to begin with, but something to remember is a lot of good games came from amateur developers who had their crap together.

It's all hackjobs - everyone thinks they're a good designer/developer... everyone thinks they're full of brilliant ideas. It's nice to say that there exist indie developers who make some software gold... but there's a whole lot of indie garbage, and even more indie never-makes-it-to-distribution.

Funding is not the big issue - people who are full of spunk discovering too late that it's a giant load of terrible work to get things off the ground is what kills these... combined with the fact that most of the people who dive into this kind of project have zero past experience with such things, and have to learn the hard way the lessons all the established developers have already learned from the past decade or two of MMO history.

xaogarrent wrote:

Also, the build it and they will come philosophy does work, the problem is most forget that in order for people to come they have to know something is even there. Exposure is really important and it's an entire science in and of itself.

Exposure aka MARKETING is something quite different - if you effectively market a product you're not going by the "if you build it they will come" philosophy in the first place. So again... no it does not work. There's more to getting things off the ground than having a product, but very few armchair developers focus on anything but creating the base product.

kojirohellfire wrote:

Correction; two new games. I won't even consider anything led by that witch Golden Girl.

Not really a correction - three proposed products exist. That you aren't interested in one of them doesn't make it disappear. Cover your eyes and try to walk through a wall you can't see anymore sometime and let me know if it works.

chaelk · August 2013

last thread like this was for the Project awakened. group of criminals creating supers.

hmmm kind of like project awakening in canada.

turned out to be a single person shooter looking for funding.

the first two of yours are attempts by COH people to redo the game,correction all three are.
wonder how long till they find the large team and larger wallet you need to run the game

lafury001200 · August 2013

"Not really a correction - three proposed products exist. That you aren't interested in one of them doesn't make it disappear. Cover your eyes and try to walk through a wall you can't see anymore sometime and let me know if it works."

Nope. Goldengirl is and always has been something of an anomaly, but after COX devs did some research she was banned for a reason.While it may have taken the folks at COX some time to realize this, they did eventually come to the conclusion that gg was was just some dude with an ellaborate trolling fetish. Nothing has changed their findings.

I don't see any of these proposals as a threat to CO. Not because I don't want an mmo that combines the customization of CO with a rich genre, but because they are just proposals.

Arguing that GG's project has any chance whatsoever is like arguing that Squeaky Fromme has valid points. That one is easily discounted out of hand. Nothing occurs in a vacuum.

draogn · August 2013

It will be interesting to see which of these will take off, I hope they aren't intent on simply cloning CoX, but rather taking what worked for CoX and improving on it while adding to the game.

decorumfriends · August 2013

Well, they tend to tag "in the spirit of CoX", so that seems to be the aim, not duplicating. There has been some small progress, but it's been way less than a year, so we shall probably have to wait to see what we shall see.

clcmercy · August 2013

kojirohellfire wrote: »

Correction; two new games. I won't even consider anything led by that witch Golden Girl.

Which one is led by that harridan?

gamehobo · August 2013

I have friends programming for two of these games as well as a third project that I am not authorized to talk about yet.

But the competition is coming. CO SHOULD have a head-start but in many ways they are behind the gun from their own setbacks. It'd take more to reverse engineer this game back to function than to create a new one from the source code IMHO

cgta1967 · August 2013

I dont think CO has anything to worry about...these projects arent going to be antything close to ready for quite a while....if at all.

I'll stay here happily....and pop in to see if those others make any progress with minimal interest

flamingbunnyman · August 2013

clcmercy wrote: »

Which one is led by that harridan?

When The Phoenix Project stopped catering to her every whim, and started saying "NO" to some of her more ridiculous demands, she took all her fangirl groupies and started Heroes and Villains.

Valiance was never connected to the other two, and operated in secret for some time before announcing themselves, making it look a bit like they had just popped out of nowhere.

voodoopokey · August 2013

gamehobo wrote:

I have friends programming for two of these games as well as a third project that I am not authorized to talk about yet.

You do realize how ridiculous that sounds, right? Maybe you don't.

gamehobo wrote:

But the competition is coming. CO SHOULD have a head-start but in many ways they are behind the gun from their own setbacks. It'd take more to reverse engineer this game back to function than to create a new one from the source code IMHO

Ok, you wake me up when there's something more than hype and talk to show for any of it. Also, that entire second sentence is like something you'd hear in a Hollywood movie, that would give actual programmers a migraine.

rianfrost · August 2013

i love the passion behind these guys, but making an mmo is something for a large, experienced group with significant financial backing. really wished they made thee games offline with online components I'll support them out fo respect for coh's community, but id prefer they had backed project awakened and just worked for a large coh based tc mod (even saints row 4 seems mod friendly if they could remove the nasty stuff in a total conversion mod) . but co's biggest enemy continues to be cryptic studios.

zahinder · August 2013

I'm really looking forward to that alien planet game where the map was procedurally generated and MASSIVE, with intricate ecosystems and base building. The screenshots were amazing!

Oh wait. That vanished into the void years ago.

I figure at some point SOMEONE will make a spiritual successor to CoH/CO.

Just not holding my breath.

(Someone give me a billion dollars to do my 'every genre mmo'!)

rianfrost · August 2013

you mean planet explorers? its in alpha.

zahinder · August 2013

rianfrost wrote: »

you mean planet explorers? its in alpha.

What I saw was pitched as a mmo, though I only vaguely remember it and perhaps it evolved into this form. Thanks for the comment, though! It looks neat!

kojirohellfire · August 2013

voodoopokey wrote: »

Not really a correction - three proposed products exist. That you aren't interested in one of them doesn't make it disappear. Cover your eyes and try to walk through a wall you can't see anymore sometime and let me know if it works.

You clearly need to educate yourself on who Golden Girl is. As lafury stated, nothing happens in a vacuum--not even on the Internet. That *****'ll be lucky that even a hundred people show up for her game... if it ever gets off the ground, that is, and she doesn't drive away her programmers.

She has a very toxic personality.

clcmercy wrote: »

Which one is led by that harridan?

Heroes & Villains.

hexsing · August 2013

Golden Girl and I have tangled before. As a long time CoX player and Forumite, we have tangled in game doing missions, where she felt she was the leader.

We also tangled on the Forums, where she thought she was leader.

I am not saying I want her project to fail, what I am saying is that I probably would persue other games first.

As if...I had a blastroller, built for holds and stuns. (Darkness Build) IOed with every kind of support+damage mod. And she told me I built her wrong, and if I wanted to play a controller I should play a controller, and not use IO's for Defenders on a Blaster.

Hexsing was beast!

zahinder · August 2013

I never interacted with GG directly, but from everything I've seen, the only way a project with GG can hope to succeed is to kick 'her' out at some point.

Any of these projects will ONLY succeed if they attract the notice of a some group with business and other experience. So the trick is to do enough cool preliminary work to entice someone to take over.

slumpywpg · August 2013

can someone explain who golden girl is and why this person is apparently so infamous?

flamingbunnyman · August 2013

slumpywpg wrote: »

can someone explain who golden girl is and why this person is apparently so infamous?

She was a frequent poster on the CoH forums who had developed a reputation that made her not particularly popular in certain circles.

taintedmess · August 2013

Honestly there's zero point worrying about these games provided they manage to actually get out the door they still have to a be half decent game. Lets face it people are not so inclined to pick up a MMORPG as they once were and over the last few years the release of true MMORPGs has decreased those that do see the light of day seems to be more about the cash store than the story.

COH had a lot of good things (had its fair share of bad as well) if there wanting to replicate the good while getting shot of the bad but still have a workable game there going to have a lot of work ahead of them there probably looking at a year+ for release by which point CO may be gone or may have finally found its feet.

voodoopokey · August 2013

kojirohellfire wrote:

You clearly need to educate yourself on who Golden Girl is. As lafury stated, nothing happens in a vacuum--not even on the Internet. That *****'ll be lucky that even a hundred people show up for her game... if it ever gets off the ground, that is, and she doesn't drive away her programmers.

No, I really don't. All of these projects are vaporware, and no single one of them is moreso than any other simply because you don't like someone involved in it. Likewise, people will try whatever manages to open, if anything, regardless of who happens to behind it - that's the way of users.

I've heard this same rant before, even about proposed superhero MMOs... for example, how nobody would waste their time on Champions Online because it had the oft-maligned Jack Emmert at the helm....

kojirohellfire wrote:

She has a very toxic personality.

So she takes up pages of a thread talking smack about people she didn't like that aren't even posting to that forum? That does sound toxic! Possibly a product of a rather consistently toxic community that can't get past things they've lost, or grudges they hold.

zahinder wrote:

Any of these projects will ONLY succeed if they attract the notice of a some group with business and other experience. So the trick is to do enough cool preliminary work to entice someone to take over.

Best of luck with that. No doubt there are plenty of people with talent and money who are saying "Man, you know what I really want to do? Drop my resources into a project based on reviving something so stunningly worthwhile that the company that had it before us threw it in the trash!".

The only chance any sort of resurrection of COH (in whatever sideways way you want to refer to it... eg, "spiritual successor") would have is if it were put together quickly, before the MMO paradigm shifts too far away from it, and if it could be run exceedingly cheaply such that it could handle the fact that it is a niche game with a low population of players... and an even lower population of paying players.

Every time anything closes down you see this kind of misguided enthusiasm where the displaced community thinks they can save the day by rebuilding what they've lost on their own and...and...and.... they don't usually get very far, and then disperse as their manic enthusiasm gives way to reality. I'd try a finished game if anyone put one together, but I really, really wouldn't hold my breath on any of these.

jennymachx · August 2013

Unless any of these projects get the kind of funding that MMOs have, even the equivalent to that of a small-time, non triple-A title at minimum, I don't see any of them going really far.

zahinder · August 2013

voodoopokey wrote: »

Best of luck with that. No doubt there are plenty of people with talent and money who are saying "Man, you know what I really want to do? Drop my resources into a project based on reviving something so stunningly worthwhile that the company that had it before us threw it in the trash!".

I suppose you missed my multiple comments to the effect that 'this has a vanishingly close to 0 chance of working'?

Presumably, if anyone took notice, they'd pick it up to make something inspired by some of what people liked of CoH... but not CoH.

I mean, Hollywood does this all the time with scripts... 'you wrote a great cop investigates robots story? Cool! We'll call it I, Robot! You have a problem with that? The door to artistic integrity is through that garbage shute right there, good luck.'

That said, again... games that actually launch generally START with a business and money. Trying to do it in reverse order is... ...

Has that ever actually happened in MMOs? Anyone know of an example?

biffsmackwell · August 2013

kojirohellfire wrote: »

Correction; two new games. I won't even consider anything led by that witch Golden Girl.

Same, but even more so because, from what I've heard/read/whatever, she wants to basically remake CoH, whereas the other guys want to make something better. If it's just a remake of CoH, I won't even consider it... there's a reason why I'm here and not there. But if the other guys want to take the best ideas from all the super MMOs out there (all less-than-a-handful-of-them) and make a really great game, yeah I'll be there to check that out.

zahinder · August 2013

Biff: I would argue strenuously that 'trying to remake CoH completely' vastly decreases the already tiny chance of success, too.

kojirohellfire · August 2013

voodoopokey wrote: »

No, I really don't. [...]
I've heard this same rant before, even about proposed superhero MMOs... for example, how nobody would waste their time on Champions Online because it had the oft-maligned Jack Emmert at the helm....

No, clearly you do because Golden Girl frankly makes Jack look congenial in comparison.

And I'm not even disputing the vaporware likelihood, so shut up about it already.

So she takes up pages of a thread talking smack about people she didn't like that aren't even posting to that forum? That does sound toxic! Possibly a product of a rather consistently toxic community that can't get past things they've lost, or grudges they hold.

I find it curious that you're going to great lengths to passively defend her, especially with "she's rubber and you're glue" style comments. Frankly I stated that I'd never consider anything led by her, which is my prerogative, and you jump in to white knight her vaporware while agreeing it's unlikely to come to fruition.

It's a very odd reaction I'm getting from you.

ariesmajor · August 2013

biffsmackwell wrote: »

Same, but even more so because, from what I've heard/read/whatever, she wants to basically remake CoH, whereas the other guys want to make something better. If it's just a remake of CoH, I won't even consider it... there's a reason why I'm here and not there. But if the other guys want to take the best ideas from all the super MMOs out there (all less-than-a-handful-of-them) and make a really great game, yeah I'll be there to check that out.

Theres only one project on this list and I'm surprised you guys found it but Valiance has actual talent behind their small team.

They could definately pull it off.

kelplankton · August 2013

Hey duders, I'm one of the animators on (working title) The Phoenix Project. It's certainly not vaporware, and we've got lots of stuff working in-game already, though right now it's mostly travel powers.

We're going to be doing a kickstarter sometime soon for the funding we need to get the programs required to make the entire game- but this is absolutely a volunteer project for the time being, and it's going to be a long process.

Our goal isn't to remake CoH or copy it directly, it's more to just make a modern superhero MMO, building off of the lessons learned from CoH, CO, and DCUO, and what worked and didn't work in each of those titles.

You'll see a lot more information (and in-game footage) very soon, coinciding with our Kickstarter. And some more a little sooner than that, I think, if we can manage to prep some stuff in time.

As for being a bunch of amateurs or whatever, you don't have to worry about that- we've got a lot of experienced folks working on this title. No, they're not big names like Jack Emmert or Matt Miller or anything like that, but these people have worked on games before both of the video and tabletop variety. We've got some newbies, too, but they're getting the guidance they need from the experienced people we have onboard.

We've gone past the point of being a thrown-together "wouldn't it be nice if" pie-in-the-sky project, and we're working on an actual game at this point. Like I said, development is still pretty early, but things are coming along solidly for being a $0 budget game. Which we hope to change soon.

And if it helps, we're not aiming for huge WoW-style numbers. We know we're not a AAA-budget MMO and we won't get that kind of userbase. We're making a niche title, and we're going to be budgeting accordingly. Not that the game's going to be tiny or half-assed, either, but we know what we can and can't make, and we've got smart people keeping us from getting in over our heads.

Wish I could say more, or give specifics, but those are all going to be coming very very soon. Just keep an eye out, alright? And feel free to ask me questions if you've got any, but understand I may not be able to answer them. Kinda depends on what you want to know.

chaelk · August 2013

Np, I like Champions and it's here.
but your long comment certainly helps explains the people I heard talking in zone today.

about how they heard 'on the vine' that CO was closing mid next year. seems someone has decided to spruik for their game by trying to scare people off this one.

Sounds like an an old business tactic, go to your competitor, tell their customers that they are closing about the time you are opening. Then let them 'accidently' find you by leaving messages on notice boards near the business

nepht · August 2013

cornivic wrote: »

So, because of CoH death there are 3 new games being made

The Phoenix Project- https://www.facebook.com/MissingWorldsMedia

Heroes & Villains- https://www.facebook.com/HeroesAndVillainsMMORPG

Valiance Online- https://www.facebook.com/ValianceOnline
What do you think will became of this game? Will it burn into ashes, or will the 3 games scare the crap out of Cryptic and make them work harder on this game? I hope for number 2.

Or maybe it will just stay where it is, and not die. This would be fine with me too.

But if it dies then so be it, I still will have 3 new games.

The only one of them that looks like it might happen is Valiance Online. I hope Phoenix Project takes off because the people behind it are boss ( sorry Kelp i dont see it happening but I will donate to the kickstarter

)

But Heroes and Villains is the ramblings of a mad woman.

None of these will effect CO it has it niche fanbase and PWE knows how to milk it.

I thought you were going to mention SRIV , Arkham Origins and Wonderful101 :P

*edit *

chaelk wrote: »

Sounds like an an old business tactic, go to your competitor, tell their customers that they are closing about the time you are opening. Then let them 'accidently' find you by leaving messages on notice boards near the business

Reading this whole thread I have to agree with this something fishy about this thread.

voodoopokey · August 2013

kojirohellfire wrote:

No, clearly you do because Golden Girl frankly makes Jack look congenial in comparison.

No, I still don't. These people do not matter to me in the slightest - they're people you have personal issues with for whatever reasons. Whether a person is a jerk or a saint, in the context of game development what matters is their ability to get the job done, and to get it done well. The two concepts are completely unrelated - there are plenty of talented, hard-working jerks, and plenty of really nice people who sit around doing squat.

kojirohellfire wrote:

And I'm not even disputing the vaporware likelihood, so shut up about it already.

You are if you declare one of the three projects to be less viable, which you did. Maybe head back to page 1 and read your post?

kojirohellfire wrote:

I find it curious that you're going to great lengths to passively defend her, especially with "she's rubber and you're glue" style comments. Frankly I stated that I'd never consider anything led by her, which is my prerogative, and you jump in to white knight her vaporware while agreeing it's unlikely to come to fruition.

It's a very odd reaction I'm getting from you.

Please tell me this isn't you implying I'm somehow in league with your COH nemesis due to my disagreeing with your assessment of the relative viability of the projects based on your pent-up rage at some forum vendetta from a different game. Save your tinfoil hat for another battle.

I think all three of them are vaporware - I just think it's self-indulgent and ridiculous to declare that one of the three is even MORE non-existent based on the fact that you hate some woman involved in it because she was mean to you in highschool. I also know, from experience, that regardless of how much people might hold grudges against the people involved in a project, they'll still try it if it ever comes out, and whether they continue to use it will be based on whether or not they enjoy their time on it. That's how things always work.

kelplankton wrote:

We're going to be doing a kickstarter sometime soon for the funding we need to get the programs required to make the entire game- but this is absolutely a volunteer project for the time being, and it's going to be a long process.

Forever is, indeed, a long long time. While I admire the ambition, and remember COH fondly, I think you're talking about a project with a timeframe so long that by the time you finish there will be nobody interested in playing it. People remember TRON fondly, but even its fans probably won't buy tickets to go see it in the theatre now if there's something else more modern playing - the video game industry punishes, hard, things that take too long to develop.

Fans of COH aren't sitting in limbo waiting for some resurgence of COH - they're playing other games, and aspects of those games will rub off on their expectations. COH was ridiculously outdated in terms of technology, and had there been something comparable or better waiting when it closed, people would have transitioned happily... but years later? I think the window of opportunity has been closing steadily, and in several years (and lets face it, you're talking that long since a year in you're still just planning the funding) it will be a distant memory.

itsbrou · August 2013

chaelk wrote: »

Np, I like Champions and it's here.
but your long comment certainly helps explains the people I heard talking in zone today.

about how they heard 'on the vine' that CO was closing mid next year. seems someone has decided to spruik for their game by trying to scare people off this one.

Sounds like an an old business tactic, go to your competitor, tell their customers that they are closing about the time you are opening. Then let them 'accidently' find you by leaving messages on notice boards near the business

I had to correct two people in person a month ago who "heard" CO was going to close. We just happened to have two TPP developers over at a function that weekend.

I really hope they were not the source of this lie.

zahinder · August 2013

kelplankton wrote: »

As for being a bunch of amateurs or whatever, you don't have to worry about that- we've got a lot of experienced folks working on this title. No, they're not big names like Jack Emmert

That's... a big plus.

Voodoo:
Everything I've heard about GG is that she pisses people off all the time. Constantly from big ego-boo BS, and it's her way or the highway.

That is not conducive to project management, however you slice it.

As for CO, I wouldn't be surprised if PW pulled the plug. But I think there are enough suckers willing to drop insane cash on FF slots and other stuff that it's probably easier to just shift a little into full maintenance mode and string people along for years.

gamehobo · August 2013

jennymachx wrote: »

Unless any of these projects get the kind of funding that MMOs have, even the equivalent to that of a small-time, non triple-A title at minimum, I don't see any of them going really far.

I am personally working with venture capitalists on one of these titles. Competitive AAA games cost SO much money to release. Investors are there but the assurances they want from the project completion standpoint make it extremely hard.

voodoopokey · August 2013

zahinder wrote:

Everything I've heard about GG is that she pisses people off all the time. Constantly from big ego-boo BS, and it's her way or the highway.

That is not conducive to project management, however you slice it.

Do you think its the nicest people that get promoted into management, typically? The people with the most friends among their co-workers? Project managers are people who can motivate team members to work and get the job done, and there are many different ways to make that happen. That this person is behind one of these projects, and people know about it, suggests that not everyone hates her, and that while certainly people in this thread think she's obnoxious, something made her stand out from the other obnoxious people that exist in these communities.

Now, that said, typically team members on real projects are getting paid, and that acts as a good motivation to stay on target and not walk away from your job. I get the impression that all of these projects are purely voluntary in nature... but you know what isn't conducive to team cohesion on a volunteer project? Dismissing/not using any team member's ideas. That may sound reasonable to you, but the fact is that a project of 20 people which is constantly being tweaked by 20 people, is a giant pile of chaos that won't get finished, and will be a terrible non-viable mutant.

As I've said - I think all three projects are pipe dreams, regardless... but I don't think one of them is particularly less viable just becomes some people think a lady involved is a *****. That's just an excuse to use a thread to spout venom at someone they don't like.

gamehobo wrote:

I am personally working with venture capitalists on one of these titles.

That certainly explains why you decided to throw unquestioning support of the idea that CO is dying into the other thread. "Forum argument over."

zahinder · August 2013

There's a big difference between 'being nice' and 'being politic.'

You can also have a leadership role and a core vision without coming across as 'there is only one truth and your ideas are stupid and bad.'

Now, personally, I've never interacted with GG. Maybe everything I've read about her interactions are wrong.

But I've read absolutely nothing to suggest she can manage a project. Anyone know differently?

voodoopokey · August 2013

zahinder wrote:

But I've read absolutely nothing to suggest she can manage a project. Anyone know differently?

Well, there's the fact that, according to several angry COH exiles, one of the 3 known projects involves, or is headed, by her. If she was as impossible to deal with as this thread claims, it would seem reasonable to expect nobody would ever work with her and there wouldn't have been a project in the first place.

Apply your same question to the other two projects: how do we know the person or persons managing those projects can do so other than the fact that the projects still exist?

zahinder · August 2013

We don't? I made no claims about the other two projects.

For all we know they are headed by even worse managers, just folks we haven't heard about (yet).

decorumfriends · August 2013

voodoopokey should know this:

Do you think its the nicest people that get promoted into management, typically?

Typically it's the people who kiss the right butt and throw the right people under a bus.

slumpywpg · August 2013

Bus you say? can it be a literal bus? Because I have this one coworker....

biffsmackwell · August 2013

ariesmajor wrote: »

Theres only one project on this list and I'm surprised you guys found it but Valiance has actual talent behind their small team.

They could definately pull it off.

I just took a look at their screenshots... reminds me of DCUO. Which is a bad thing. Generic rendering with modern superhero movie-inspired costumes, with normal mapping absolutely everywhere... no thanks.

Add in an optional cel shader, then maybe I'm in.

I get visually bored with generically-rendered games very easily.

voodoopokey wrote: »

Do you think its the nicest people that get promoted into management, typically?

I don't know the answer to that question, but I have worked with a producer that had the same kind of attitude as her, where they are completely set in their ways, and know their way is the right way. When this person was shown proof of something being designed wrong and/or not working right (and this was a technical matter, not one of opinion), they didn't even bother look into the issue because he knew better than the guy bringing him the issue, because he was the one who designed it.

People who are only open to their own ideas are terrible leaders.

kojirohellfire · August 2013

voodoopokey wrote: »

No, I still don't. These people do not matter to me in the slightest - they're people you have personal issues with for whatever reasons.

If they don't matter to you, then why are you arguing?

You are if you declare one of the three projects to be less viable, which you did. Maybe head back to page 1 and read your post?

Someone lecturing about statistics in another thread shouldn't be a stranger to the concept of probability.

But apparently you are.

Please tell me this isn't you implying I'm somehow in league with your COH nemesis due to my disagreeing with your assessment of the relative viability of the projects based on your pent-up rage at some forum vendetta from a different game.

I wasn't. Thought didn't even cross my mind. I've actually met a lot of people stranger than you on the Internet.

But now that you've suggested the idea to me, my curiosity is piqued because a remark like that can be seen as "conspicuous denial."

Oh my, the thread has gotten more interesting.

I think all three of them are vaporware - I just think it's self-indulgent and ridiculous to declare that one of the three is even MORE non-existent based on the fact that you hate some woman involved in it because she was mean to you in highschool.

But apparently it really means a lot to you. I mean really, if you thought all of these things had no chance at all, then it really shouldn't matter to you what I think of one of them.

But again, apparently it does matter to you because you're putting a lot of energy into this. It's my personal assessment of Golden Girl's past behavior that Heroes & Villains is the least likely of the three vaporware projects to ever see probable fruition simply because she's more likely to drive her volunteers away in the long run.

I also know, from experience, that regardless of how much people might hold grudges against the people involved in a project, they'll still try it if it ever comes out,

No, that doesn't match my personal track record at all.

And your anecdotal experience isn't any superior to my own.

and whether they continue to use it will be based on whether or not they enjoy their time on it. That's how things always work.

Oooooh, an absolute, declarative statement. That makes you all the more credible. :rolleyes:

voodoopokey wrote: »

Do you think its the nicest people that get promoted into management, typically? The people with the most friends among their co-workers? Project managers are people who can motivate team members to work and get the job done, and there are many different ways to make that happen. That this person is behind one of these projects, and people know about it, suggests that not everyone hates her,

A truly rare breed, trust me.

Now, that said, typically team members on real projects are getting paid, and that acts as a good motivation to stay on target and not walk away from your job. I get the impression that all of these projects are purely voluntary in nature... but you know what isn't conducive to team cohesion on a volunteer project?

Ohhh... what? What is it, oh great guru of wisdom and all-knowing?

Dismissing/not using any team member's ideas.

There. You just described Golden Girl's entire personality.

*Clap.*

As I've said - I think all three projects are pipe dreams, regardless... but I don't think one of them is particularly less viable just becomes some people think a lady involved is a *****. That's just an excuse to use a thread to spout venom at someone they don't like.

And again, this matters to you so much... why?

zahinder wrote: »

There's a big difference between 'being nice' and 'being politic.'

You can also have a leadership role and a core vision without coming across as 'there is only one truth and your ideas are stupid and bad.'

Now, personally, I've never interacted with GG. Maybe everything I've read about her interactions are wrong.

No, that's a pretty accurate assessment of her. As you've said, a jerk of a manager can be political and succeed because of it, but Golden Girl doesn't have such a notion of familiarity with any form of tact that that would entail.

A typical Golden Girl management style would look like this:

Golden Girl in charge! wrote:

What you did is not very good and therefor wrong.

gamehobo · August 2013

voodoopokey wrote: »

That certainly explains why you decided to throw unquestioning support of the idea that CO is dying into the other thread. "Forum argument over."

Oh have no doubt, I sincerely want CO to close down, it would make finding funding much easier.

But to think that to be my sole motivation for why I think the game is dying..? I smell smoke and assume something is burning, even if I cannot SEE the fire.

sistersilicon · August 2013

gamehobo wrote: »

Oh have no doubt, I sincerely want CO to close down, it would make finding funding much easier.

jonsills · August 2013

gamehobo wrote: »

Oh have no doubt, I sincerely want CO to close down, it would make finding funding much easier.

So, having said this, why do you think the devs will ever believe anything you have to say about your beloved Telepathy? You want CO to close; ergo, it seems easy to believe that your every criticism is in fact an attempt to sabotage this game.

3 New Heroes Games Are Coming

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