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Forums > Home› Champions Online Discussion

You are not fair Cryptic/Pw, verry unfair!

lunaw78lunaw78 Posts: 293 Arc User
edited July 2013 in Champions Online Discussion
You removed FOR NO REAL REASON the Robot dance some year(s) ago (I don`t remember how much time passed), JUST TO BE ADDED LATER AS WHAT?! PREMIUM EMOTE?! WHEN THIS EMOTE WAS FOR FREE FROM THE BEGGINING OF THE GAME?!?!
YOU ARE VERRY UNFAIR PW/CRYPTIC, VERRY UNFAIR!
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Post edited by lunaw78 on
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Comments

  • fudgemonstafudgemonsta Posts: 1,497 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Welcome to life.

    We still haven't gotten the weapon skins back.

    So keep some pent-up butthurt for when those get lockboxed or something, aight?
    @HangingDeath

    Deliciously nutritious!
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,202 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    They also removed the requirement to pay that they had some years ago.

    Put the price tag back and make the robot dance emote free!

    That will even things out.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Posts: 5,508 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    nextnametaken wrote: »
    They also removed the requirement to pay that they had some years ago.

    That only applies to premade archetypes though.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 2,996 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    nextnametaken wrote: »
    They also removed the requirement to pay that they had some years ago.

    Put the price tag back and make the robot dance emote free!

    That will even things out.

    Right, because emotes (other than the harajuku ones) were always intended to be paid-for features.

    EDIT: Just saw the announcement on Z-store emotes. Well dang.
    My City of Heroes album of memories
  • jerax1011jerax1011 Posts: 950 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Could have been in a lockbox... just sayin'
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  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 1,973 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    jerax1011 wrote: »
    Could have been in a lockbox... just sayin'

    Oh yes, the old catechism of "It could be worse."
  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou
    itsbrou#5396
         Posts: 1,740 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Since launch, I have never seen a robot dance as a player emote. You could make the mega destroids do it in Resistance, but that is not a player.
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • jerax1011jerax1011 Posts: 950 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    kojirohellfire wrote: »
    Oh yes, the old catechism of "It could be worse."

    But let's be honest, it COULD have been worse.. I honestly am happy to see something make a return to the Zen store and not through a chance (aka lockboxes) to gain interesting items. This will hopefully encourage the devs to add more items to the Zen store and give it the love it deserves.

    Most of us that have been storing up Zen have nothing to spend it on, so it's about time!
    EU5doX8.jpg
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  • trailturtletrailturtle Posts: 2,286 Perfect World Employee
    edited July 2013
    While I can understand your concerns, I'd like to point to this from a business perspective. One of the most precious resources for CO right now is dev time. Regardless of the past history of emotes (which I don't know a ton of, tbh), in order to justify spending dev time on emotes, even ones that were already mostly-created and just had to be finalized and packaged, there has to be some kind of return.

    That doesn't necessarily mean money, by the way. LordGar spent time on the three free emotes because it was important to show that we really were sorry about emotes being off for the previous week, and to show we understood how much emotes mean to some players. Player goodwill is a perfectly good reason to spend time on a project.

    That being said, at a certain point, we saw that we could keep going and make more emotes, but we'd reached diminishing returns from player goodwill -- four emotes or forty, at a certain threshold it's not any more fun to get one more emote. In order to justify spending the time to hook up more emotes, which we really wanted to do, we had to have some other kind of return. In this case, the best way to justify that dev time was to sell it.
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,202 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Hey that Libery Airlines sign in MIllennium City has been broke for about 20 months.
    Show you are really sorry for that and and sell vehicles at 75% off.

    ooh or that 'i'm an airplane vrrrr' thing we all did as kids emote!
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 2,996 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    jerax1011 wrote: »
    But let's be honest, it COULD have been worse.. I honestly am happy to see something make a return to the Zen store and not through a chance (aka lockboxes) to gain interesting items. This will hopefully encourage the devs to add more items to the Zen store and give it the love it deserves.

    Most of us that have been storing up Zen have nothing to spend it on, so it's about time!

    The way I see it, it would be really hard to justify putting emotes in lockboxes. Everything else offered in lockboxes are virtually-tangible items (if that makes sense) that a player can actually own.

    The 475 ZP price seemed steep at first, but considering that it was all done by LordGar and that animation work doesn't seem as simple as texturing and modelling, it does seem reasonable.
    My City of Heroes album of memories
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,746 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    trailturtle wrote: »
    While I can understand your concerns, I'd like to point to this from a business perspective. One of the most precious resources for CO right now is dev time. Regardless of the past history of emotes (which I don't know a ton of, tbh), in order to justify spending dev time on emotes, even ones that were already mostly-created and just had to be finalized and packaged, there has to be some kind of return.

    That doesn't necessarily mean money, by the way. LordGar spent time on the three free emotes because it was important to show that we really were sorry about emotes being off for the previous week, and to show we understood how much emotes mean to some players. Player goodwill is a perfectly good reason to spend time on a project.

    That being said, at a certain point, we saw that we could keep going and make more emotes, but we'd reached diminishing returns from player goodwill -- four emotes or forty, at a certain threshold it's not any more fun to get one more emote. In order to justify spending the time to hook up more emotes, which we really wanted to do, we had to have some other kind of return. In this case, the best way to justify that dev time was to sell it.

    Was going to argue the point with you but your argument is 99% air tight. With the 1% being the robot dance c'mon it was free to start, some people bought the box the robot is on the disc they have ALREADY bought it :P

    But yeah paying for the other new emotes seems fair time was spent making them and time is money.
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 2,996 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    Was going to argue the point with you but your argument is 99% air tight. With the 1% being the robot dance c'mon it was free to start, some people bought the box the robot is on the disc they have ALREADY bought it :P

    But yeah paying for the other new emotes seems fair time was spent making them and time is money.

    Instead now you can dress your toon up as a robot and use the air-guitar emote to Robot Rock.
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  • lunaw78lunaw78 Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    trailturtle wrote: »
    While I can understand your concerns, I'd like to point to this from a business perspective. One of the most precious resources for CO right now is dev time. Regardless of the past history of emotes (which I don't know a ton of, tbh), in order to justify spending dev time on emotes, even ones that were already mostly-created and just had to be finalized and packaged, there has to be some kind of return.

    That doesn't necessarily mean money, by the way. LordGar spent time on the three free emotes because it was important to show that we really were sorry about emotes being off for the previous week, and to show we understood how much emotes mean to some players. Player goodwill is a perfectly good reason to spend time on a project.

    That being said, at a certain point, we saw that we could keep going and make more emotes, but we'd reached diminishing returns from player goodwill -- four emotes or forty, at a certain threshold it's not any more fun to get one more emote. In order to justify spending the time to hook up more emotes, which we really wanted to do, we had to have some other kind of return. In this case, the best way to justify that dev time was to sell it.

    @Trailturtle that really doesn`t mean this emote should have returned to game as premium content. I admit, I didn`t joined the game since beta, but when I did (and that was some days before the On Alert system) i`m 100% positive this emote was free for all!
    we saw that we could keep going and make more emotes, but we'd reached diminishing returns from player goodwill -- four emotes or forty, at a certain threshold it's not any more fun to get one more emote ...
    In order to justify spending the time to hook up more emotes, which we really wanted to do, we had to have some other kind of return. In this case, the best way to justify that dev time was to sell it.

    So just because the "poor little" dev/player spend so much time on creating new emotes, as a compesation you put the Robo Dance as Premium Emote, right? LOL
    If you really wanted NOT to have this "diminishing returns" all you could do, I saw you already did sometimes, is to organise an Emote Contest in wich players could bring their best ideeas for new emotes! That way no dev/player can be overworked on creating new emotes! IT IS SO SIMPLE!

    And instead of Robot Dance you (here I don`t really mean @trailturtle) could put other new emote, something like Sit_crosslegged
    Girl_Sitting_in_Chair_%28tone%29.jpg
    not the Robo Dance emote!
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 2,996 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    lunaw78 wrote: »
    And instead of Robot Dance you (here I don`t really mean @trailturtle) could put other new emote, something like Sit_crosslegged

    I actually want that emote...really bad.
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  • lunaw78lunaw78 Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    Was going to argue the point with you but your argument is 99% air tight. With the 1% being the robot dance c'mon it was free to start, some people bought the box the robot is on the disc they have ALREADY bought it :P

    But yeah paying for the other new emotes seems fair time was spent making them and time is money.
    I agree at some point with you nepth! But that doesn`t mean (again) that they can remove any free emotes from game, just like this and after some time walaaa the "new" emote as premium content!
    If they can do this with ONE emote, I wonder where they can go with this thing if nobody cares, only me, about this thing? Revamping Radiant as premium AT?! Or what?
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  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 1,923 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    lunaw78 wrote: »
    @Trailturtle that really doesn`t mean this emote should have returned to game as premium content. I admit, I didn`t joined the game since beta, but when I did (and that was some days before the On Alert system) i`m 100% positive this emote was free for all!

    Back then, there were NO free emotes. There weren't even any that you could buy. You rented them for $15/month.

    Now, you can pay $5 once for the new emotes and keep them forever. Which is the better deal?
    _________________________________________________
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  • dukevaungurdukevaungur Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I don't recall -ever- seeing this emote in the game before. I do remember when Air Guitar and a few other dance emotes were in that were -purchasable emotes- in Star Trek Online were free in CO, and those were removed after the STO team complained about it. The Robot may have been one of those emotes, I dunno if it's free or not in STO, it was probably removed with that lot.
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I had zero problem throwing money at this. Cost me less than a pack of cigarettes.

    The free emotes were a good gesture, and showed you guys have some balls.

    I'd like to see costumes back in the C-store, or even in the Questionite Exchange.
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,554 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    flamingbunnyman wrote: »
    Back then, there were NO free emotes. There weren't even any that you could buy. You rented them for $15/month.

    Now, you can pay $5 once for the new emotes and keep them forever. Which is the better deal?

    For me, the former is the better deal. I already pay the sub every month and always will until the game dies/I die/I get totally fed up with things.
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  • atringatring Posts: 231 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Ya know, I usually have no trouble seeing someone else's point of view on just about any issue, even if I think that person is wrong. The level of petulant whining in this thread is pathetic.
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  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,554 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    atring wrote: »
    Ya know, I usually have no trouble seeing someone else's point of view on just about any issue, even if I think that person is wrong. The level of petulant whining in this thread is pathetic.

    This level of concescending flaming is also quite pathetic.
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  • p0temk1np0temk1n Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Did I miss something? I know I joined this game a few months after it started, but I don't recall ever being able to do the robot unless I was in a Resistance Mega-D.

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  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 1,923 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    themightyzenith wrote: »
    For me, the former is the better deal. I already pay the sub every month and always will until the game dies/I die/I get totally fed up with things.

    For you, that's a fair point. The OP has thrown the "I'm a Silver player" argument in recent threads though, so for them, not so much.
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  • neuraldamageneuraldamage Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Been here since day 1, don't remember robot being a regular dance emote. Methinks OP is torqued up about nada. And since TT has already stated that old emotes are easy but new ones are nogo... how does a contest help?

    lunaw78 wrote: »
    @Trailturtle that really doesn`t mean this emote should have
    returned to game as premium content. I admit, I didn`t joined the game since beta, but when I did (and that was some days before the On Alert system) i`m 100% positive this emote was free for all!


    So just because the "poor little" dev/player spend so much time on creating new emotes, as a compesation you put the Robo Dance as Premium Emote, right? LOL
    If you really wanted NOT to have this "diminishing returns" all you could do, I saw you already did sometimes, is to organise an Emote Contest in wich players could bring their best ideeas for new emotes! That way no dev/player can be overworked on creating new emotes! IT IS SO SIMPLE!
    People are broken. - Lum the Mad
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    neuraldamage wrote: »
    Been here since day 1, don't remember robot being a regular dance emote. Methinks OP is torqued up about nada. And since TT has already stated that old emotes are easy but new ones are nogo... how does a contest help?

    Actually, LordGar hinted at the possibility for more. Not 'brand new' ones, but more.

    Personally, I'd like to see more postures. I very much do not like our current ones. The 'heroic' one comes off as robotic and clunky.
  • neuraldamageneuraldamage Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    cybersoldier1981 wrote: »
    Actually, LordGar hinted at the possibility for more. Not 'brand new' ones, but more.

    Like I said, old ones are easy. New ones not so much. You do know there are several unreleased emotes right?
    People are broken. - Lum the Mad
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    neuraldamage wrote: »
    Like I said, old ones are easy. New ones not so much. You do know there are several unreleased emotes right?

    I have seen NPC's do them. Has anyone compiled a list or some gif's or made a video?
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 990 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Thing is, this shows how little Cryptic understands the current situation.

    'It costs dev time, and player goodwill is worth only so much' only makes sense in a healthy game.

    A game that's universally slammed for having been abandoned for three years needs a MASSIVE amount of work to convince people that they should rethink how CO is doing.


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  • klittyklitty Posts: 1,530 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Is now a good time to recall that Resistance was free for gold but available to purchase? I cannot remember the robot dance somewhere else besides the Resistance Giant Robot Showdown.

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  • lunaw78lunaw78 Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    flamingbunnyman wrote: »
    Back then, there were NO free emotes. There weren't even any that you could buy. You rented them for $15/month.

    Now, you can pay $5 once for the new emotes and keep them forever. Which is the better deal?
    It was no free emotes because the game weren`t free! That`s verry logic! I don`t understand your poit of view.

    And I didn`t said I was against new emotes, even premium one. I just pointed out towards ONE specific emote.
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  • trailturtletrailturtle Posts: 2,286 Perfect World Employee
    edited July 2013
    cybersoldier1981 wrote: »
    I have seen NPC's do them. Has anyone compiled a list or some gif's or made a video?

    Yep, we've got several players (shout-out to Kaiserin in particular) who've given us such lists, and they've been very helpful.
  • p0temk1np0temk1n Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Probably because you're complaining about purchasing an emote that was only available under a single specific scenario and formerly not available outside of it (besides demo_record wizardry). And last I checked (7/18/2013), the player-controlled Mega-Ds in Resistance can still do the robot. What are you complaining about here?

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  • lunaw78lunaw78 Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    atring wrote: »
    Ya know, I usually have no trouble seeing someone else's point of view on just about any issue, even if I think that person is wrong. The level of petulant whining in this thread is pathetic.
    So I guess I can`t say my point of view just because someone like you say that what? I`m wipping? I`m really not wipping! I just said my point of view (in some aggresive way I admit) but it was my poit of view I wasn`t wipping.
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  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,524 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    klitty wrote: »
    Is now a good time to recall that Resistance was free for gold but available to purchase? I cannot remember the robot dance somewhere else besides the Resistance Giant Robot Showdown.

    How long before the dances become free for everyone?
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  • lunaw78lunaw78 Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    p0temk1n wrote: »
    Probably because you're complaining about purchasing an emote that was only available under a single specific scenario and formerly not available outside of it (besides demo_record wizardry). And last I checked (7/18/2013), the player-controlled Mega-Ds in Resistance can still do the robot. What are you complaining about here?
    So I`m the only one who thinks that the Robot dance was outside Mega D event?! And it wasn`t even player usable?
    I`m sure I have seen the robot dance outside the Mega D event in CO but ok if I`m the only one who believe that, I won`t continue to argue with you guys. For me this thread is closed.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,214 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    All I can say is, I must have missed a meeting somewhere.

    When was it decided that everything was supposed to be "fair"? For that matter, who decides "fair"? Is it "fair" to demand that the animators work for free so your toon can do the Robot? Especially if, like me, you're already playing for free?
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  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 990 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Except if various NPCs already do the animation and it's available in STO... how much work are the animators doing, again?


    I also find it disturbing how often devs seem surprised and needing player lists of game content. WTH, man?? What happened to CO's documentation??

    And as for 'fair,' it behooves a company to make happy customers. Jerking them around is a luxury for highly successful products.

    I mean, I don't think it matters that much in isolation, but as part of a pattern of squeezing blood out of stones...
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  • canadascottcanadascott Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'm positive the robot dance has never been available in game. It's been requested for a *long* time.

    IIRC, the pulled emotes (from the summer 2010 update) were air guitar, formal bow, and facepalm, and I think one other. Aside from some sit animations, these are the only ones I remember being pulled.
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  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,516 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    lunaw78 wrote: »
    So I`m the only one who thinks that the Robot dance was outside Mega D event?! And it wasn`t even player usable?
    I`m sure I have seen the robot dance outside the Mega D event in CO but ok if I`m the only one who believe that, I won`t continue to argue with you guys. For me this thread is closed.

    Other than Mega-D, I have only seen NPCs using it.

    That being said, I have no issue with paying for the emotes, I did so right away. To support non lockbox content in the c(z)-store.

    Hopefully it will generate some money that will be used for this game and we can get more content. Maybe even more things to buy, like costume packs.
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  • trailturtletrailturtle Posts: 2,286 Perfect World Employee
    edited July 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    Except if various NPCs already do the animation and it's available in STO... how much work are the animators doing, again?

    No animator work. It is some work for LordGar -- not much, but still enough that there has to be a return on investment.
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    trailturtle wrote: »
    No animator work. It is some work for LordGar -- not much, but still enough that there has to be a return on investment.

    If we throw together something, maybe by grabbing pictures of superheroes and such and sharing them here- do you think LordGar would be willing to look into new poses?

    I mean, we'll do our part, at least..
  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 1,923 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    It's one thing for him to dig existing emotes out of the code, give them unlocks, and hook them up to the store. It's something totally different to actually make the emotes.

    Is Lord Gar even an animator?
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  • trailturtletrailturtle Posts: 2,286 Perfect World Employee
    edited July 2013
    To my knowledge, LordGar has no background in animation, no. Any project of this sort would need to re-use existing assets, I'm afraid.
  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,516 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    trailturtle wrote: »
    To my knowledge, LordGar has no background in animation, no. Any project of this sort would need to re-use existing assets, I'm afraid.

    I still like that fact you gave free emote along with ones to buy. Thanks again.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    trailturtle wrote: »
    To my knowledge, LordGar has no background in animation, no. Any project of this sort would need to re-use existing assets, I'm afraid.

    OK, so what if we find NPC's in various poses and snap images of those?
  • forutnefireforutnefire Posts: 473 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I think the new emotes look cool. Honestly though, just because it "could have been worse" doesn't make it right. I have to agree (though not to the emotional extent) with the op on this one. Kind of a jerk move.
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  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,516 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    forutnefire wrote: »
    I think the new emotes look cool. Honestly though, just because it "could have been worse" doesn't make it right. I have to agree (though not to the emotional extent) with the op on this one. Kind of a jerk move.

    Except it was never available for charaters to use. Mega-D yes, characters no. NPCs yes, characters no.

    So we never had it in the first place.

    Therefor nothing was ever taken from us.

    There are many costume pieces that NPCs have that we don't. Are you(not just you fortune, but everyone else whinning) going to complain if they are released in costume packs?
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  • jerax1011jerax1011 Posts: 950 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    forutnefire wrote: »
    I think the new emotes look cool. Honestly though, just because it "could have been worse" doesn't make it right. I have to agree (though not to the emotional extent) with the op on this one. Kind of a jerk move.

    How is making new emotes a jerk move? Not to mention that the robot dance specifically mentioned was never actually usable by players outside resistance?
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  • cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    bwdares wrote: »
    There are many costume pieces that NPCs have that we don't. Are you(not just you fortune, but everyone else whinning) going to complain if they are released in costume packs?

    I wouldn't. But your argument busts a hole in the 'we had it, it should be free' thing. We 'have' cyberpunk costumes on NPC's in the game, guess selling them was wrong.

    Hell, I've been saying for a while I'll GLADLY pay more than the standard fee for a new 'variety pack' of those missing costumes.
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