Update: The issue itself should be fixed now. We're still going to need to do a whiteglove of the server before we open it back up, but we're pretty close now.
Read the ToS. It states that they can't account for unscheduled downtimes and by hitting the agree button you agreed to just deal with it if/when they occur.
It's like that with literally EVERY MMO out there.
This is understandable, but this is the kind of thing you deal with during Beta, not after the game has been released and going strong. Been playing MMOs for over ten years...never seen the likes of this...three games, down at the same time, three days in a row. That's got to be a record.
And to be honest, "you agreed to the ToS" is not going to cut it here, because you have no choice but to accept it in order to play the game. All that ToS is, is a way to cover the company's butts so they don't have to answer to anyone for anything. You and I both are well aware of this though, arn't we?
And just deal with it? Was it like I had a choice? I'm a Lifetime sub....if I were not, things like this would cause me to pull the plug here and move on to other games that are ran by more competent developers. Cryptic and PW has both proven time and time again to be...well, B-Rate in comparison to other companies. The simple fact that Cryptic had to sell out to PW is more than enough testament to this.
Sorry, I am not going to sit here and make excuses for Cryptic or PW, nor will I defend the company to anyone by saying, "You agreed to it, deal with it..."
People will vent, if nobody vented, there would be no pressure to fix the issue,....thus this issue would continue until they just simply felt like getting around to fixing it.
Bill Gates once said, "I hire lazy people, because they [people who are lazy] will always find the easiest and fastest way to get things done"
Someone on [CoX] was reporting 757 and 500+ millisecond delays on two Cogent locations on the tracert to the patch server.
Network related Request times out at node 12.
Yep, we've seen this fish before. This wouldn't be the first time Cogent gave Cryptic upstream connection problems.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
We've also agreed to content that can change without notice.
So if they wanted, NW could change into Hello Kitty Dungeon Adventure, and you've agreed to put up with it.
That's not going to stop reasonable ire about it, though.
Basically. Lots of stuff people agree to there everything from content to ability to close shop any given moment. Yet when it happens even after agreeing to it each time they log in hundreds of times, people get irked when it does happen.
This is just one of those things I hope is fixed for good now and not merely patched with temporary fix until the shoestring and coat hanger falls off again.
This is understandable, but this is the kind of thing you deal with during Beta, not after the game has been released and going strong. Been playing MMOs for over ten years...never seen the likes of this...three games, down at the same time, three days in a row. That's got to be a record.
And to be honest, "you agreed to the ToS" is not going to cut it here, because you have no choice but to accept it in order to play the game. All that ToS is, is a way to cover the company's butts so they don't have to answer to anyone for anything. You and I both are well aware of this though, arn't we?
And just deal with it? Was it like I had a choice? I'm a Lifetime sub....if I were not, things like this would cause me to pull the plug here and move on to other games that are ran by more competent developers. Cryptic and PW has both proven time and time again to be...well, B-Rate in comparison to other companies. The simple fact that Cryptic had to sell out to PW is more than enough testament to this.
Sorry, I am not going to sit here and make excuses for Cryptic or PW, nor will I defend the company to anyone by saying, "You agreed to it, deal with it..."
People will vent, if nobody vented, there would be no pressure to fix the issue,....thus this issue would continue until they just simply felt like getting around to fixing it.
Bill Gates once said, "I hire lazy people, because they [people who are lazy] will always find the easiest and fastest way to get things done"
Looks like PW and Cryptic live by this ideology.
Look, I'm not saying "you agreed to the ToS so you lost your right to ***** and moan about stuff", I was simply adding onto what Smackwell said:
"Owe" is really not the right word for this. You agreed to accept downtime when you started playing.
That part about feeling "owed" something because of these downtimes won't stick unless it's the second coming of Newbton and Cryptic feels they need to make reparations. None of these past few days reads anything like another Newbton, instead it's coming across as piss poor planning.
This is understandable, but this is the kind of thing you deal with during Beta, not after the game has been released and going strong. Been playing MMOs for over ten years...never seen the likes of this...three games, down at the same time, three days in a row. That's got to be a record.
And to be honest, "you agreed to the ToS" is not going to cut it here, because you have no choice but to accept it in order to play the game. All that ToS is, is a way to cover the company's butts so they don't have to answer to anyone for anything. You and I both are well aware of this though, arn't we?
And just deal with it? Was it like I had a choice? I'm a Lifetime sub....if I were not, things like this would cause me to pull the plug here and move on to other games that are ran by more competent developers. Cryptic and PW has both proven time and time again to be...well, B-Rate in comparison to other companies. The simple fact that Cryptic had to sell out to PW is more than enough testament to this.
Sorry, I am not going to sit here and make excuses for Cryptic or PW, nor will I defend the company to anyone by saying, "You agreed to it, deal with it..."
People will vent, if nobody vented, there would be no pressure to fix the issue,....thus this issue would continue until they just simply felt like getting around to fixing it.
Bill Gates once said, "I hire lazy people, because they [people who are lazy] will always find the easiest and fastest way to get things done"
Looks like PW and Cryptic live by this ideology.
You're basically saying that you want the privilege of playing the game without agreeing to their rules. Being able to play the game is not an unalienable right. They absolutely don't have to answer to us on this outage because we all told them that we won't hold them accountable. This is exactly the situation described in the terms of use, so it is exactly going to cut it.
Look, I'm not saying "you agreed to the ToS so you lost your right to ***** and moan about stuff", I was simply adding onto what Smackwell said:
That part about feeling "owed" something because of these downtimes won't stick unless it's the second coming of Newbton and Cryptic feels they need to make reparations. None of these past few days reads anything like another Newbton, instead it's coming across as piss poor planning.
Regardless of the ToS, we do try to provide the best experience possible. With something with as many moving parts as an MMO has, though, that's not always possible -- but even though it's unavoidable to have some downtime, I do recognize that it hurts the community, and we work hard to minimize downtime.
The good news is that this one is approaching completion, so about an hour and a bit of downtime, all told.
You're basically saying that you want the privilege of playing the game without agreeing to their rules. Being able to play the game is not an unalienable right. They absolutely don't have to answer to us on this outage because we all told them that we won't hold them accountable. This is exactly the situation described in the terms of use, so it is exactly going to cut it.
Like I said, do I have a choice? No matter what game you play, you accept their terms. You play the game on their terms, period...or you do not play any game existing in the entire market. We accept them because we have to, not because we want to.
It's no different than every single construction worker in the world having a policy stating, "We do not have to give you excellent craftsmanship, we can do as crappy of a job as we want to and you will just deal with it."
Well, since every construction worker in the world has this policy, what choice do you have but to accept it? You don't...unless you know how to do your own construction, you are SoL.
So there you have it....deal with it indeed, but nowhere in that policy does it say that people can not complain when things go repeatedly wrong.
Regardless of the ToS, we do try to provide the best experience possible. With something with as many moving parts as an MMO has, though, that's not always possible -- but even though it's unavoidable to have some downtime, I do recognize that it hurts the community, and we work hard to minimize downtime.
The good news is that this one is approaching completion, so about an hour and a bit of downtime, all told.
Thank you, Turtle...it's always helpful when you guys communicate with us. I for one do appreciate the updates on this Community Forum.
You're basically saying that you want the privilege of playing the game without agreeing to their rules. Being able to play the game is not an unalienable right. They absolutely don't have to answer to us on this outage because we all told them that we won't hold them accountable. This is exactly the situation described in the terms of use, so it is exactly going to cut it.
Hidden behind a TOS only goes so far. It doesn't matter what their TOS says, when they sell stuff they are legally accountable to deliver something.
Laws > TOS
Of course we are not nearly at a point where we can hold cryptic accountable, but still, posting stuff like that irks me. The average TOS has lots of stuff that will never legally hold up. Even less so because cryptic (and most other companies) uses the same one for multiple countries, all with their own laws.
There's also the fact that these click-wrap user agreements only cover them so far.
If they have a massive quantity of downtime, despite what the EULA says, users are still free to sue in the US.
And a judge/jury could find that the agreement is unreasonable in light of daily downtimes, especially if they're during "prime time".
A F2P player might not have a leg to stand on. But non-LTS Gold members, especially if Cryptic continues collecting this sub, without compensating the user, could make a strong case that they're being billed for services that were never rendered.
A F2P player might not have a leg to stand on. But non-LTS Gold members, especially if Cryptic continues collecting this sub, without compensating the user, could make a strong case that they're being billed for services that were never rendered.
All the more reason the game needs to go Free to Play.
Not to belabour the obvious, but unless they're billing people by the minute, they're not required to make up anything to anyone. I pay by the month, and they don't owe me squat. Just sayin'.
I managed to get in touch with Lee Tosi and after reading his mind...turns out he has accquired some of Trailturtle's genetic material...so..its only a matter of time..before we see an Army of The Trail!! :biggrin: - Mentella
I managed to get in touch with Lee Tosi and after reading his mind...turns out he has accquired some of Trailturtle's genetic material...so..its only a matter of time..before we see an Army of The Trail!! :biggrin: - Mentella
This is somewhere between horrifying, and really awesome because I could use the help.
All the more reason I will never pay to play a Cryptic game, EVER! Was under their rule for years with another game they made and sold that just shut down a while back. While I will never deal with that company again, I will say that at least they didn't have many of these problems.
Cryptic has been well known for shall we say telling there players non truths and no compensation for problems they have. O well at least I didn't pay them anything. Was thinking of getting a lifetime when I remembered who I was dealing with. :cool:
You may have misread something. I never said you couldn't complain. Just said that the players aren't owed anything for downtimes.
With this I agree. To put this in perspective, I play 6-8 hours a day (I have no life, I'm on disability). So how much am I owed when the servers go do? How do you rate that? If someone only plays 2 or three hours a day, does get more in compensation or less? Quite the puzzle. Unless you realize that you pay for a large block of time- (a month or longer), and you play in that block when you can, and you get nothing extra for the time unplayed.
Not to belabour the obvious, but unless they're billing people by the minute, they're not required to make up anything to anyone. I pay by the month, and they don't owe me squat. Just sayin'.
Yes and no.
Again, it's all about what a judge/jury are willing to listen to in court and how egregious the abuse is.
An argument could be made that no reasonable person is going to pay $15/month for 1 hour of uptime in the middle of a work/school day. Not when pretty much every competing service out there is up more or less 24x7 with a couple hours set aside each week for maintenance. Especially when, up to a point, the provider in question WAS providing 24x7 minus a maintenance window.
Note: I'm not saying that Cryptic is that bad. Merely providing an extreme example so that you understand what I'm talking about.
Not that TT would EVER talk to us like that. Seems he's more hugger, than yeller.
I drove down from PWE's offices to Cryptic today for a playtest. I got the text about the outage, and that the playtest was canceled, less than five minutes before I arrived.
You'd better believe I did some yelling at my steering wheel. With the windows up. Then calmly walked in and grabbed a computer, swearing under my breath the whole time. :P
I started playing CO right from Beta. It was fantastic. So full of life and promise - it really was a great game.
Sure it had it's issues. There were bugs. Some of those bugs still exist (yes...from Beta), though most were rectified.
Sadly, this is just the latest in a progression of non-progression. CO has been languishing without any real love - like a timber house rotting with termites, it just gets a fresh coat of paint occasionally to attract new buyers.
Unfortunately, I'll not be subscribing to any Cryptic or PWE game in the future. They've shown themselves to be in the same calibre as SOE. They simply do not care about the opinions of their clients. It's like a fast food joint dropping your burger on the floor in front of you, then refusing to replace it or even acknowledge it was dropped in the first place.
I'll still play CO - it costs me nothing - but I won't invest time nor money in any more of their 'games'.
I drove down from PWE's offices to Cryptic today for a playtest. I got the text about the outage, and that the playtest was canceled, less than five minutes before I arrived.
You'd better believe I did some yelling at my steering wheel. With the windows up. Then calmly walked in and grabbed a computer, swearing under my breath the whole time. :P
Well, I am forced to eat my words...it didn't take 5 hours this time...whatever the problem is that is causing this issue, they seem to be getting much faster at fixing it. :cool:
Comments
*creepystare* Jiiiiiii~
This is understandable, but this is the kind of thing you deal with during Beta, not after the game has been released and going strong. Been playing MMOs for over ten years...never seen the likes of this...three games, down at the same time, three days in a row. That's got to be a record.
And to be honest, "you agreed to the ToS" is not going to cut it here, because you have no choice but to accept it in order to play the game. All that ToS is, is a way to cover the company's butts so they don't have to answer to anyone for anything. You and I both are well aware of this though, arn't we?
And just deal with it? Was it like I had a choice? I'm a Lifetime sub....if I were not, things like this would cause me to pull the plug here and move on to other games that are ran by more competent developers. Cryptic and PW has both proven time and time again to be...well, B-Rate in comparison to other companies. The simple fact that Cryptic had to sell out to PW is more than enough testament to this.
Sorry, I am not going to sit here and make excuses for Cryptic or PW, nor will I defend the company to anyone by saying, "You agreed to it, deal with it..."
People will vent, if nobody vented, there would be no pressure to fix the issue,....thus this issue would continue until they just simply felt like getting around to fixing it.
Bill Gates once said, "I hire lazy people, because they [people who are lazy] will always find the easiest and fastest way to get things done"
Looks like PW and Cryptic live by this ideology.
STO is taking advantage of the downtime to run their maintenance a little early. We aren't doing that, but them doing it won't slow us down at all.
Yep, we've seen this fish before. This wouldn't be the first time Cogent gave Cryptic upstream connection problems.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Basically. Lots of stuff people agree to there everything from content to ability to close shop any given moment. Yet when it happens even after agreeing to it each time they log in hundreds of times, people get irked when it does happen.
This is just one of those things I hope is fixed for good now and not merely patched with temporary fix until the shoestring and coat hanger falls off again.
Look, I'm not saying "you agreed to the ToS so you lost your right to ***** and moan about stuff", I was simply adding onto what Smackwell said:
That part about feeling "owed" something because of these downtimes won't stick unless it's the second coming of Newbton and Cryptic feels they need to make reparations. None of these past few days reads anything like another Newbton, instead it's coming across as piss poor planning.
You're basically saying that you want the privilege of playing the game without agreeing to their rules. Being able to play the game is not an unalienable right. They absolutely don't have to answer to us on this outage because we all told them that we won't hold them accountable. This is exactly the situation described in the terms of use, so it is exactly going to cut it.
Fair enough
The good news is that this one is approaching completion, so about an hour and a bit of downtime, all told.
Like I said, do I have a choice? No matter what game you play, you accept their terms. You play the game on their terms, period...or you do not play any game existing in the entire market. We accept them because we have to, not because we want to.
It's no different than every single construction worker in the world having a policy stating, "We do not have to give you excellent craftsmanship, we can do as crappy of a job as we want to and you will just deal with it."
Well, since every construction worker in the world has this policy, what choice do you have but to accept it? You don't...unless you know how to do your own construction, you are SoL.
So there you have it....deal with it indeed, but nowhere in that policy does it say that people can not complain when things go repeatedly wrong.
Thank you, Turtle...it's always helpful when you guys communicate with us. I for one do appreciate the updates on this Community Forum.
That's because TT actually does his job when it comes to CO.
If only we could get more like him. :cool:
..unless you are telepathy
Kinky. Mmm...
Hidden behind a TOS only goes so far. It doesn't matter what their TOS says, when they sell stuff they are legally accountable to deliver something.
Laws > TOS
Of course we are not nearly at a point where we can hold cryptic accountable, but still, posting stuff like that irks me. The average TOS has lots of stuff that will never legally hold up. Even less so because cryptic (and most other companies) uses the same one for multiple countries, all with their own laws.
If they have a massive quantity of downtime, despite what the EULA says, users are still free to sue in the US.
And a judge/jury could find that the agreement is unreasonable in light of daily downtimes, especially if they're during "prime time".
A F2P player might not have a leg to stand on. But non-LTS Gold members, especially if Cryptic continues collecting this sub, without compensating the user, could make a strong case that they're being billed for services that were never rendered.
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
Well yeah. The servers are down.
And it's roughly the end of the workday for most of the US right now.
Prime time doesn't kick in for another hour or two.
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
All the more reason the game needs to go Free to Play.
I managed to get in touch with Lee Tosi and after reading his mind...turns out he has accquired some of Trailturtle's genetic material...so..its only a matter of time..before we see an Army of The Trail!! :biggrin: - Mentella
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
You may have misread something. I never said you couldn't complain. Just said that the players aren't owed anything for downtimes.
This is somewhere between horrifying, and really awesome because I could use the help.
Cryptic has been well known for shall we say telling there players non truths and no compensation for problems they have. O well at least I didn't pay them anything. Was thinking of getting a lifetime when I remembered who I was dealing with. :cool:
With this I agree. To put this in perspective, I play 6-8 hours a day (I have no life, I'm on disability). So how much am I owed when the servers go do? How do you rate that? If someone only plays 2 or three hours a day, does get more in compensation or less? Quite the puzzle. Unless you realize that you pay for a large block of time- (a month or longer), and you play in that block when you can, and you get nothing extra for the time unplayed.
I really appreciate the status updates, thank you.
Yes and no.
Again, it's all about what a judge/jury are willing to listen to in court and how egregious the abuse is.
An argument could be made that no reasonable person is going to pay $15/month for 1 hour of uptime in the middle of a work/school day. Not when pretty much every competing service out there is up more or less 24x7 with a couple hours set aside each week for maintenance. Especially when, up to a point, the provider in question WAS providing 24x7 minus a maintenance window.
Note: I'm not saying that Cryptic is that bad. Merely providing an extreme example so that you understand what I'm talking about.
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f6l1QljpMo
Not that TT would EVER talk to us like that. Seems he's more hugger, than yeller.
Thank you, Turtle!
I drove down from PWE's offices to Cryptic today for a playtest. I got the text about the outage, and that the playtest was canceled, less than five minutes before I arrived.
You'd better believe I did some yelling at my steering wheel. With the windows up. Then calmly walked in and grabbed a computer, swearing under my breath the whole time. :P
I started playing CO right from Beta. It was fantastic. So full of life and promise - it really was a great game.
Sure it had it's issues. There were bugs. Some of those bugs still exist (yes...from Beta), though most were rectified.
Sadly, this is just the latest in a progression of non-progression. CO has been languishing without any real love - like a timber house rotting with termites, it just gets a fresh coat of paint occasionally to attract new buyers.
Unfortunately, I'll not be subscribing to any Cryptic or PWE game in the future. They've shown themselves to be in the same calibre as SOE. They simply do not care about the opinions of their clients. It's like a fast food joint dropping your burger on the floor in front of you, then refusing to replace it or even acknowledge it was dropped in the first place.
I'll still play CO - it costs me nothing - but I won't invest time nor money in any more of their 'games'.
Regards to the Player Community
EDIT: We should be open now. Let me know if you have any issues getting in.
So... hold on TT is there a new PTS build?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Click up there if you want to find more about the costumes behind my heroines.
GAME ON! :biggrin:
I don't think so...
So are you telling us it's you who needs a hug?
:biggrin:
Awwww okay I was excited there for a mo =S oh well thanks!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Click up there if you want to find more about the costumes behind my heroines.
No, I'm not letting that one down.